Trump Peace Plan

Douggg

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That's not him. He might be an ac, but he's not the son of perdition. He's also no longer in office.

Look up Candidate of Rothschild. That's him.

More so, pre-tribulation rapture has no scriptural basis.
Macron is not a Jew Not him.

The rapture could happen pre-trib (pre-70th week), but not necessarily. There's basis for it, but the flaw is that most of the first half of the 70th is not tribulation, as the world will saying peance and safety, thinking it has entered the messianic age..
 
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Messenger 3k

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Macron is not a Jew Not him.

The rapture could happen pre-trib (pre-70th week), but not necessarily. There's basis for it, but the flaw is that most of the first half of the 70th is not tribulation, as the world will saying peance and safety, thinking it has entered the messianic age..

Why must he be a Jew?

And what's your scriptural basis for pre-tribulation rapture?
 
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Douggg

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Why must he be a Jew?

And what's your scriptural basis for pre-tribulation rapture?
I personally am anytime rapture view. But to answer your question...


Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

The thinking is in the pre-trib view the unknown factor, when you think not, is diminished when the beginning of 7 years starts. That's part of the rationale.

Also, Revelation 3:
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Which pre-trib considers hour of temptation to be the 7 years.

And since Christians are not appointed to wrath, pre-trib refers to 2Thessalonians2:4-6, the revealed man sin, in his time - which pre-trib consider him being revealed as also knowing who he to be when the person confirms the covenant for 7 years. Which pretrib refers back to the gathering together in 2Thessalonians2:1 as the rapture.

Reasoning what witholdeth him being revealed in his time is the rapture takes place before the 7 years begin, which reveals who he is.

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

I personally am anytime rapture view, in that the rapture could happen before the 70th week begins, or it may be after. But it must be before the person goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood.
_______________________________________________________________________________

The person has to be a Jew in order to be anointed the King of Israel... instead of and against (Anti) Jesus the rightful King of Israel. "the" Christ pertains to being the promised great King of Israel to reign during the messianic age, descended from King David. Jesus was rejected by the Jews and Jerusalem to be their King.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

Being the Anti-Christ is one of the roles the arch villain of the end times will be in. The other roles pertains to being the King of the Roman Empire of the end times.
 
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keras

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Why must he be a Jew?

And what's your scriptural basis for pre-tribulation rapture?
The future leader of the One World Government, Daniel 7:23-24, Revelation 17:12-13, will be charismatic man, who will win power by deceit and his clever manipulation of those 10 Governors first appointed. What ethnicity he will be is of not consequence.

Rapture to heaven of the Church believers have no scriptural basis for their doctrine. It is supported by assumption, inference and pure guesswork.
Jesus very plainly stated that humans never go to heaven. John 3:13, +
We Christians have work to do here and must stand firm in our faith, enduring until the end. Revelation 13:10
 
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Messenger 3k

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The future leader of the One World Government, Daniel 7:23-24, Revelation 17:12-13, will be charismatic man, who will win power by deceit and his clever manipulation of those 10 Governors first appointed. What ethnicity he will be is of not consequence.

Rapture to heaven of the Church believers have no scriptural basis for their doctrine. It is supported by assumption, inference and pure guesswork.
Jesus very plainly stated that humans never go to heaven. John 3:13, +
We Christians have work to do here and must stand firm in our faith, enduring until the end. Revelation 13:10

Exactly.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Rapture to heaven of the Church believers have no scriptural basis for their doctrine. It is supported by assumption, inference and pure guesswork.
Jesus very plainly stated that humans never go to heaven. John 3:13, +
We Christians have work to do here and must stand firm in our faith, enduring until the end. Revelation 13:10
I just happen to have a thread on Reve 13:10:

Captivity and sword Luke 21:24

Jeremiah 15:2

“And it shall be, if they say to you, ‘Where should we go?' then you shall tell them,
‘Thus says the LORD:
“Such as are for death, to death;
And such as are for the sword, to the sword;
And such as are for the famine, to the famine;
And such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.” '

.Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]

Revelation 11:2
and the Court/fold without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out! out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations
and they shall be trampling<3961> the holy City forty two months.

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the Saints

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover................

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, .................
Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.

........the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome.
After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves,
or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ;
whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.[Deuteronomy 28:68]
==================
Deuteronomy 28:
15 If, however, you do not obey Yahweh thy Elohiym by carefully following all His commandments and statutes I am giving you today,
all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:
68
“And Yahweh will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.'
And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”
 
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Messenger 3k

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I personally am anytime rapture view. But to answer your question...


Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

The thinking is in the pre-trib view the unknown factor, when you think not, is diminished when the beginning of 7 years starts. That's part of the rationale.

Also, Revelation 3:
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Which pre-trib considers hour of temptation to be the 7 years.

And since Christians are not appointed to wrath, pre-trib refers to 2Thessalonians2:4-6, the revealed man sin, in his time - which pre-trib consider him being revealed as also knowing who he to be when the person confirms the covenant for 7 years. Which pretrib refers back to the gathering together in 2Thessalonians2:1 as the rapture.

Reasoning what witholdeth him being revealed in his time is the rapture takes place before the 7 years begin, which reveals who he is.

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

I personally am anytime rapture view, in that the rapture could happen before the 70th week begins, or it may be after. But it must be before the person goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood.
_______________________________________________________________________________

The person has to be a Jew in order to be anointed the King of Israel... instead of and against (Anti) Jesus the rightful King of Israel. "the" Christ pertains to being the promised great King of Israel to reign during the messianic age, descended from King David. Jesus was rejected by the Jews and Jerusalem to be their King.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

Being the Anti-Christ is one of the roles the arch villain of the end times will be in. The other roles pertains to being the King of the Roman Empire of the end times.

You are taking relevant scriptures out of context and making irrelevant scriptures important.

I assume you're Spirit filled because you'd need spiritual discernment with your studies.

Now understand this. I'll have to drop some revelations.

The rapture has always been attached to the "day of the Lord". The day of the Lord comes after the seven years tribulation. Jesus says "no one knows the day nor the hour"...here "day" and "hour" mean actual day and actual hour as we know them.

After the last three and half years of tribulation, the christians who've managed to survive would be running here and there trying to escape the antichrist and his mark. Some will be in the forest, some will be in the desert. They'll all be waiting for Jesus to show up and save them because any longer than that and they'll be wiped off by the antichrist. Had the great tribulation lasted more than three and half years, no Christian would've survived. They are the elect spoken of in Matthew 24:22,

"If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened."

The thing is, no one knows what day or what time of the day (hour) Jesus would show up, so they'll be waiting in hiding for him.

To lure them out of hiding, the antichrist might start up a rumour or scene making them think Jesus has arrived to save them.
Hence Jesus further warns us in Matthew 24:23,

"At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect (the survivors). See, I have told you ahead of time. So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."
(meaning, you'll be able to see Him from wherever you are. Do not leave your hiding place!)

However, the "hour" in Revelation 3:10 is not an actual hour. It's prophetic timing, meaning three and half years. The same was used in Revelation 17:12,

"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast."

It doesn't mean the ten kings will rule with the antichrist for only 60 minutes. It means they'll rule with him for three and half years.

So Revelation 3:10 is saying the Jewish remnant will be kept safe for three and half years in the wilderness because they'll not be going through the great tribulation with us.
 
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Douggg

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The thing is, no one knows what day or what time of the day (hour) Jesus would show up, so they'll be waiting in hiding for him.
If so, then why does it say...

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

....sounds like the present condition of the world to me.
 
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Messenger 3k

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If so, then why does it say...

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

....sounds like the present condition of the world to me.

It means exactly what I said it meant: no one knows what day or what time of the day Jesus would show up. No one knows if it's Monday, or Tuesday...or if it's in the morning or evening. Not even Jesus Himself knows...not the angels. Only God knows. Jesus will come the exact moment He is instructed by God.

So the Christians in hiding will have to wait patiently and be on the alert. They'll also have to be steadfast in God.

For the non-christians especially, life will go on as usual. They would've received the mark and will go on with daily activities, living in a false sense of peace and security. They'll be going to work as usual, getting married as usual, going to school as usual...until the coming of Christ hits them all of a sudden.

That is what it means by "as in the days of Noah"...Matthew 24:38,

"As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."
 
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keras

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If so, then why does it say...

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

....sounds like the present condition of the world to me.
The event Jesus is referring to in Matthew 24:36-38, isn't His Return, but the great and terrible Day of the Lord's wrath by fire from the sun. The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster that will set the scene for the establishment of a One World Govt.
The glorious Day of His Return will be known by those who know their Bibles, as it will occur exactly 1260 days after the Anti-Christ desecrates the Temple.
 
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Messenger 3k

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The event Jesus is referring to in Matthew 24:36-38, isn't His Return, but the great and terrible Day of the Lord's wrath by fire from the sun. The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster that will set the scene for the establishment of a One World Govt.
The glorious Day of His Return will be known by those who know heir Bibles, as it will occur exactly 1260 days after the Anti-Christ desecrates the Temple.

No sir, this is where you're wrong. There is only one "day of the Lord".

2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter asserting that the day of the Lord has already come."


It just happens to be also called the "great and terrible day of the Lord" especially because of the signs that will come with it and the fact that it will not be a good day for unbelievers.

Understand the structure of the book of Revelation.

The seven seals are a summary of the all the signs that will occur throughout the seven years tribulation (more precisely, the six seals describe this).

The seven trumpets describe all the signs that'll occur in the first three and half years of tribulation.

The seven bowls describe all the signs that''ll occur in the last three and half years of tribulation.


The sixth of the seals was describing the coming of Christ by the signs that'll occur on that day.
Christ will come with an earthquake on a dark and gloomy day with a bloody moon and without sun or stars.
 
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Douggg

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For the non-christians especially, life will go on as usual. They would've received the mark and will go on with daily activities, living in a false sense of peace and security. They'll be going to work as usual, getting married as usual, going to school as usual...until the coming of Christ hits them all of a sudden.
During the great tribulation, it will not be life as usual - for anyone.
 
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Douggg

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The event Jesus is referring to in Matthew 24:36-38, isn't His Return, but the great and terrible Day of the Lord's wrath by fire from the sun. The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster that will set the scene for the establishment of a One World Govt.
The glorious Day of His Return will be known by those who know heir Bibles, as it will occur exactly 1260 days after the Anti-Christ desecrates the Temple.
You are being too specific.

Jesus is talking about several things, which we can now know refer to the days leading up to, during, and ending with his return. Including (1) the rapture (2) the sudden change that takes place when the person goes in the temple, claims to be God (3) the beginning of the great tribulation when the AoD is placed in the temple (4) Jesus appearing in heaven (5) the very day Jesus returns.
 
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Messenger 3k

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During the great tribulation, it will not be life as usual - for anybody.

It will be life as usual for unbelievers. All they'll need to do is take the mark and go on living their life. My point is life'll go on for them. And that involves going to work, getting married, planning for the future, thinking of school fees...completely oblivious of what's coming.

Sure those days will be distressing days but it'll even be the more reason they'll take the mark hoping to survive and get some peace and security. Because those will be troubled times of global war and inflation.

And I'm sure you can tell we're really close.
 
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Douggg

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Kushner is a Jew.
Kushner has a lot of the elements. He is a Jew. He is in a position to be involved directly in the peace plan. He is the right age.

Here is what he lacks. It would be hard for me to think that kushner could become the King of the Roman Empire end times, and be from the people who destroyed the temple and city. If some how he became involved in European Politics, to some how become their leader that would be a different story. I don't see him as being a forceful person - like the king of fierce countenance, and being more stout than his peers. Of course we only see what is on TV. And coming up among ten kings? I don't see that fit either, with kushner.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep an eye on him though. I am watching what is going on with him. Remember Kissinger? For similar reasons, he was pegged as being the person.
 
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Douggg

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It will be life as usual for unbelievers. All they'll need to do is take the mark and go on living their life. My point is life'll go on for them. And that involves going to work, getting married, planning for the future, thinking of school fees...completely oblivious of what's coming.
No, the great tribulation is going to test everyone alive on earth at that time. For example, the flesh tormenting locust will attack only them not having the seal of God on their foreheads according to Revelation 9:4.

Taking the mark of the name of the beast, the 666, or the name of the beast to buy or sell is because the economy of the world will be in dire straits - it will be a form of like bread lines were in the great depression. Revelation 6:5-6

The world is being setup, with global debt expanding at unsustainable levels, for that sort of depression like collapse to finally happen in the middle part of the 7 years.

It is one of many converging signs that we are close (1) to our redemption the rapture as we see these things begin to happen (2) the formation of the ten king - leader - form of government for the EU (3) the appearance of the little horn (4) Gog/Magog.

Which will be immediately followed by the seven years.
 
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Messenger 3k

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You are being too specific.

Jesus is talking about several things, which we can now know refer to the days leading up to, during, and ending with his return. Including (1) the rapture (2) the sudden change that takes place when the person goes in the temple, claims to be God (3) the beginning of the great tribulation when the AoD is placed in the temple (4) Jesus appearing in heaven (5) the very day Jesus returns.

No, it's the other way round; you are being too specific.

Tell me, what's the temple of God?

Is it still a building or now your body?

1 Corinthians 6:19,

"Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? "

Do I have to explain some more to you?

Do you understand what an abomination of desolation is?

The abomination of desolation is anything that sits in God's temple as God and takes away worship which is originally meant for Him away from Him.

In the time of the Jews and their antichrist (Antiochus), the temple God dwelled in was a building. So the abomination of desolation was the alter of pagan god, zeus which was set up at the temple, on the alter of burnt offerings. And sacrifices were offered to zeus on that altar.

I'm sure you can understand why that's an abomination.

That occurred exactly three and half years before he died.

Now God no longer dwells in buildings. He dwells in us.

So three and half years into tribulation, the mark of the beast will be implemented, which is the abomination of desolation because it will be placed on people's bodies (the temple of God), forcing many to worship the beast instead of the one true God.

Do you now understand?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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No, the great tribulation is going to test everyone alive on earth at that time. For example, the flesh tormenting locust will attack only them not having the seal of God on their foreheads according to Revelation 9:4.
Revelation is not the whole world.
How am I supposed to flee from Judea/Jerusalem when I am in the US? The Jews will probably be fleeing to the US for safety since the Trib and Wrath come upon them.

Matthew 24:

1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
2 And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>.”
16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
19 But woe to those that are with child, and those that give suck in those days.
Mark 13:
1 And He going forth out of the Temple, one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”
2 And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings.
Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down<2647>
14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,'[fn] spoken of by Daniel the prophet,[fn] standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand),
“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
17 But woe to those that are with child and to those that give suck in those days!
Luke 21:
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly<2570> stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
6 “These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>
21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,
23 But woe to them that are with child and to them who give suck in those days,
for there shall be great distress upon the land and wrath upon this people.

Luke 19:

41 And as He nears, beholding the City, and He laments on Her,
42 saying, "That if Thou knew and Thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward peace of Thee,
now yet it was hid from Thy eyes.
43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee,
and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee
and shall be encompassing Thee,
and pressing Thee from-every-side.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".


The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 17:
16 And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast, These shall be hating the harlot,
and They shall be making Her desolate<2049> and naked,
and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating<5315>
and shall be burning<2618> Her in fire.
17 For the GOD gives<1325> into Their hearts to do<4160> the mind<1106> of Him, and to do One mind
and to give Their kingdom to the Beast
until shall be being finished<5055> the words of the GOD.
18 and the Woman whom thou saw is being the great City,
the one having a kingdom<932> over the kings of the land.’

Revelation 18
9 And shall be lamenting<2799> over Her and shall be grieving/smiting selves<2875> over Her the kings of the earth,
those with Her committing whoredom and indulging
whenever they may be beholding<991> the smoke of Her firing<4451>.

10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting<929> of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
 
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Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
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No, it's the other way round; you are being too specific.

I was referring to Keras's comment. I don't think I was being too specific.

Tell me, what's the temple of God?

Is it still a building or now your body?

1 Corinthians 6:19,

"Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? "

Do I have to explain some more to you?
Messenger, welcome to the forum. I should I said that earlier. The things you are "explaining" to me, I have been in discussions over and over - going back 15 years or so in internet forums. I have also been over at a prime Jewish (Judaism) countermissionary site since 2004 learning what they believe, discussing (and arguing) with them. And muslim sites as well, but not in recent years.

The temple of God in the metaphoric sense was used in regards to Christians.

In bible prophecy application, it refers to a physical temple. The one here on earth is patterned after the real in heaven. In the end times there will be a temple built, downsized likely, in stages, to expedite the restarting of animal sacrifices required under the old covenant that the Jews still go by. And the purpose of it for the Jews, in their beliefs the purpose will be for the praise and worship the One True God.

You position you have is to make a theology argument - not a bible prophecy argument - that it will not happen because it would be an abomination to God, to do animal sacrifices and such, because Jesus's death on the cross and resurrection ended the reason for all those. Is that not what you are going to tell me?

So three and half years into tribulation, the mark of the beast will be implemented, which is the abomination of desolation because it will be placed on people's bodies (the temple of God), forcing many to worship the beast instead of the one true God.

Do you now understand?
No that is not it. The abomination of desolation is the image of the beast that the false prophet in Revelation 13 has the world make. That image will, by seemingly miracle, appear to come alive and speak.

There will be two events, though closely related are not exactly the same.

The transgression of desolation (in Daniel 8:12-13) - which is the act of 2Thessalonians2:4

The abomination of desolation (in Matthew 24:15) - an image, a statue of the beast, in the temple

Those two events take place in a certain order, in the tan colored ovals. If you follow down through my chart you will see them near the bottom.
298721_40604e5919684ba882068bfa7e72f4ee.png
 
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