Which political party is more consistent with scriptural teaching?

Which political party is more consistent with scriptural teaching?

  • The Republican Party

  • The Democratic Party


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straykat

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People who think the Democrats are for socialism either do not know what Democrats want or do not know what socialism is.

I certainly don't. They sell themselves out to corporations, banks, and big funders, just like Republicans. And they've never not loved a war. Just like Republicans. Only they kill more infants. At least out in the open. I'm pretty sure most Republicans never cared either, and didn't actually want to listen to their constituents on this issue for a long while.
 
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jmldn2

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Anyone who claims they know the present day democratic party and still supports them, either have no clue to socialism or else they support socialism. Either way, the democratic party of today is nothing compared to the party of JFK. The name even needs to be changed.
 
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zelosravioli

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Some christians seem to want a communalism like we read about in Acts, so why not socialism?

Socialism is the effort to create a communal economy. So, is there a workable application of communalism, as some Christian's like to imagine being possible?

Sure, it seems to be possible in 'small' groups, the 'family' being one. But just as our example in Acts shows, Judeo Christian theology also points out that 'all men are sinners' - and sure enough some will try to cheat and lie, as did Anninias and Sapphira.

Small communal groups such as the Jews, other tribes, and groups such as the Amish have to rely on extensive legalism to avoid mass cheating, or spoiling of the system.

Another problem is that Christian's weren't called to isolate ourselves from the rest of society. We shouldn't assume that we can impose our law's on the secular and non Christian, so without our communal Christian ''legalism' a community of both the secular and Christian wouldn't work for long.

Just the same; the secular forms of socialism wont work for the Christian because the secular laws don't care about Christian beliefs, they may even be antithetical to one another. This is why popular Communist manifestos eventually oppose or even outlaw Christian beliefs and even jail and persecute Christian's.
 
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The Barbarian

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Some christians seem to want a communalism like we read about in Acts, so why not socialism?

Socialism is the effort to create a communal economy. So, is there a workable application of communalism, as some Christian's like to imagine being possible?

Sure, it seems to be possible in 'small' groups, the 'family' being one. But just as our example in Acts shows, Judeo Christian theology also points out that 'all men are sinners' - and sure enough some will try to cheat and lie, as did Anninias and Sapphira.

Whereas, in a capitalist system ,that never happens.
 
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Shiloh Raven

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The Democratic party of today has disintegrated into the abyss.

It's hypocritical of any right wing Christian who supports Trump to point their judgmental finger at Democrats and accuse them of disintegrating into the abyss. It's hypocritical when these right wing Christians support a twice divorced admitted adulterous philander in his third marriage to his former mistress. They support a man who paid off a inappropriate content star during his campaign to silence her about their previous affair. They support a man who used vulgar language to brag about groping multiple women and he bragged about watching young teenage girls getting undressed during beauty pageants.

It's also hypocritical when these right wing Christians support a man who is well known and well documented for the lies he has told before and after he was elected to the presidency.

All False statements involving Donald Trump

Donald Trump masqueraded as publicist to brag about himself

Donald Trump's Long, Strange History of Using Fake Names | Fortune

President Trump has made 6,420 false or misleading claims over 649 days

It's truly laughable to see some right wing Christian Trump supporters boast about being more moral and point their judgmental finger at Democrats when they support and defend a man who said he's never asked God for forgiveness of his sins and who said he doesn't believe adultery is a sin.

Donald Trump in 1990: Adultery is Not a Sin

Trump on God: 'I don't like to have to ask for forgiveness'

Trump: I’ve Never Asked God For Forgiveness For Anything [VIDEO]

Trump: 'Why Do I Have to Repent or Ask for Forgiveness If I Am Not Making Mistakes?' (Video)
 
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zelosravioli

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Shiloh, its at least your third (ad nauseam) post about Trumps personal behavior, I will then repeat ; Conservatives didn't vote for him because of his 'behavior'.

I have never heard a trump supporter, Christian or otherwise, speak well of his affairs and many women. He has lied, but Leftists are greatly exaggerating, and lying about the number of lies, so leftists are the bigger liars (thus hypocritical).

We know Trump speaks with a crazy syntax, and he's not politically correct, but so many people are so sick of politicians, and political correctness - that's exactly why they liked him. With Trump; what you see is exactly what you get ( I would address your statements about Trump and Clinton, but the OP asked about the two 'parties' not the presidents).

Conservatives wanted a business man not a politician,.and that's what Trump is; a New York business man and developer - that's how it is, who hasn't heard New York will eat you alive if your not tough enough. That's what was needed to oppose the Washington political monster's - Washington is now a sickening giant behemoth of never ending taxing and wasteful spending, a giant bureaucracy that is 20 trillion in debt, a fed that rewards corruption in banking, and prints baseless money to prop this all up - and most democrat politicians and many Republicans weren't interested in doing anything about it.

Conservatives weren't looking for a church pastor, and Jesus wasn't one of candidates, so that line of argument about his sexual excapades is pointless to those who voted for him.

Christians already have a King and a Messiah; so the US president, senators, politicians, firemen, soldiers, lawyers, shoemakers, and candlestick makers aren't, nor required to be.
 
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zelosravioli

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Whereas, in a capitalist system ,that never happens.
I'm not sure if that's tounge in cheek, but I'm speaking of the United States - I haven't witnessed the United States jailing and persecuting Christian's, nor outlawing their beliefs - please explain.

If someone is opposing or preventing Christians from practicing their religion, its not 'capitalists' (or conservatives) .
 
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The Barbarian

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I'm not sure if that's tounge in cheek, but I'm speaking of the United States - I haven't witnessed the United States jailing and persecuting Christian's, nor outlawing their beliefs - please explain.

If you believe that there has been no religous persecution in the United States, you are very naive. There is less now than there was decades ago. But it's been suppressed, not eliminated.

If someone is opposing or preventing Christians from practicing their religion, its not 'capitalists' (or conservatives) .

Look up Hutterites. There's a lot more if you want to look. You would think no one would persecuted Jews in modern America, um? Let me know what you find.
 
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zelosravioli

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Barbarian, there is never 'no' persecution. Just as there is never 'no' something', especially when it comes to human behavior.

1: But, 'you' used the word no; I did not say there was 'none'.
2: I was not speaking of any other religion but Christianity (because the OP is about 'scriptural' I suppose the whole Bible, and political parties).
3: I asked for examples, good you gave one; four Hutterites we're jailed, and two died, in 1910. Many other people were jailed because they refused military service in WW1 - being a pacifist (or refusing to pay taxes) is not confined to religious or christian beliefs - the charge was not 'because' they were Christian's but refusing to enlist.
4: I still dont see where conservatives or Capitalism is persecuting Christians. Capitalism and free enterprise really has no want of big 'Government' or high taxes.
5: Jews as well as all faith's have done extremely well in America. For awhile more Jews lived in New York than anywhere else. No country has so many different religions that live together like in the USA. We even had new religions form here and thrive. People still escape religious persecution simply by coming to the USA.

There are still nations where people are murdered, jailed, tortured, enslaved, for their faith and religion, often millions, and you accuse me of being naive? Christianity is outlawed in countries still, and your comparing America to that? You don't have to go back a hundred years.
 
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jgarden

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Anyone who claims they know the present day democratic party and still supports them, either have no clue to socialism or else they support socialism. Either way, the democratic party of today is nothing compared to the party of JFK. The name even needs to be changed.
These are the same arguments that denounced Medicare, Medicare, Social Security, Obamacare and virtually every other social program introduced to bring America into the 21stC!

Where is the moral outrage at the $1 trillion+ "tax cut" for America's wealthiest all financed with borrowed money - it could be argued that this was tantamount to "socialism" for the wealthy!

"Jmldn" is merely parroting the 2020 Republican strategy to characterize the Democratic Party as "socialist" - to divert attention away from the embarrassing fact that they lost 40 seats in the House as a result of the 2018 Interims!
 
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jgarden

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Some christians seem to want a communalism like we read about in Acts, so why not socialism?

Socialism is the effort to create a communal economy. So, is there a workable application of communalism, as some Christian's like to imagine being possible?

Sure, it seems to be possible in 'small' groups, the 'family' being one. But just as our example in Acts shows, Judeo Christian theology also points out that 'all men are sinners' - and sure enough some will try to cheat and lie, as did Anninias and Sapphira.

Small communal groups such as the Jews, other tribes, and groups such as the Amish have to rely on extensive legalism to avoid mass cheating, or spoiling of the system.

Another problem is that Christian's weren't called to isolate ourselves from the rest of society. We shouldn't assume that we can impose our law's on the secular and non Christian, so without our communal Christian ''legalism' a community of both the secular and Christian wouldn't work for long.

Just the same; the secular forms of socialism wont work for the Christian because the secular laws don't care about Christian beliefs, they may even be antithetical to one another. This is why popular Communist manifestos eventually oppose or even outlaw Christian beliefs and even jail and persecute Christian's.
Given that virtually every modern nation in the world could be considered "socialist" by American standards, "zelosravioli's" assertion that it is incompatible with Christianity is not supported by the facts!

Canada, with whom America shares 5250 miles of border, has a universal healthcare system and an extensive social safety net - Canadian Christians are not flooding to the US northern border escaping religious persecution!

May I draw "zelosravioli's attention to the article "How Canada Stole the American Dream" - it may be dated but the observations/conclusions are still valid!

http://www.carp.ca/2009/08/30/special-canada-day-report-how-canada-stole-the-american-dream/
 
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ziggy29

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Given that virtually every modern nation in the world could be considered "socialist" by American standards, "zelosravioli's" assertion that it is incompatible with Christianity is incompatible with the facts!
Well, I don't much care for the "Jesus was a socialist" argument that many liberals trot out, but there is at least a partial nugget of truth to it -- but not necessarily in the political context.

Jesus very clearly called on those of greater means to share their good fortune with those of lesser means. But never did Jesus say anything about using government to enforce that. (He never said *not* to, either.)

So in reality, one's belief in the size of government has little to nothing to do with their Christian faith. Now if someone is very wealthy and says they are Christian, and they advocate to shrink government aid to the poor and they don't use their lower taxes to help the poor... that is a problem. But one way or another -- whether through government or private charity -- it's pretty clear what Jesus is telling people who have extreme abundance. Not wanting government to do it is not un-Christian.... but if you don't want government to do it and you have great abundance, share some of it. Because if you do have great abundance and you vote for small government and give little to charity, you are like the man who walks away from Jesus when told to give all his stuff away to follow Christ.
 
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zelosravioli

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The Mosaic Law and the freedom from it realized in the death of Christ, are not two different things, just two ends of the same thing. Like a stick; one end can preserve life, while the other end takes life, it all depends on who is holding the stick.

Christian's who vote to hand the stick to a secular government (let alone grant a big stick to a religious govt) is violating another biblical principal - 'wisdom'.

Law and principal are the same; the principal can remain the same, but the application of the law might not, for instance; all sinners should be put to death, but the law also says we should be forgiving and such.
Scripture says if someone asks for a coat, give him your shirt also - it does not say, have someone go take the coats from those with coats and give them to others.
That would be stealing, and that is against the (scriptural Mosaic) Law.

Taxation is the enforced 'taking' of income or property from others - it is legalized theft. We can agree for 'conveineince of payment' sake that we need to set up systems to pay for projects, or to pay some taxes. Like the law, it is a necessary evil to have a civil society - but keep in mind the biblical command to not steal - and that taxes can easily blur the difference between giving and stealing.
 
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zelosravioli

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"Given that virtually every modern nation in the world could be considered "socialist" by American standards, "zelosravioli's" assertion that it is incompatible with Christianity is not supported by the facts..." ( Jgarden from post #294)

Canada has social 'ized' healthcare, and such. Yet you are the first person I have ever heard refer to Canada as a Socialist country.
There is no pure form of either Socialism or Capitalism in the world - so why would any educated person attempt to start with that argument?

You can look at them as two opposites - that have to compromise somewhere in the middle. Even corporations agree to certain standards just to improve development, they also 'choose' to increase wages, give healthcare, education, and other incentives to their employees. I believe they also 'give' to charity sometimes simply to help society (companies do give anonymous donations also (albeit a tax deductible one).

In the same way most Communist regimes also use capitalism to compete in business. 'How much' of either is acceptable is the question. 'How far' to the left or right are you willing to slide the scale - that is were the discussion should be. 'How much' govt and taxes do we 'tolerate', we're not logically going to expect it is going to be one or the other of the two extreme ends of the scale.
 
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jgarden

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We now have a majority conservative supreme court. I predict that abortion will be illegal within a year.
GLOBAL INCIDENCE AND TRENDS
Guttmacher Institute

Abortion rates are similar in countries where abortion is highly restricted and where it is broadly legal
. The abortion rate is 37 per 1,000 women in countries that prohibit abortion altogether or allow it only to save a woman’s life, and 34 per 1,000 in countries that allow abortion without restriction as to reason—a difference that is not significant.
Induced Abortion Worldwide
***********************************************
Abortion Worldwide 2017: Uneven Progress and Unequal Access

Abortion incidence varies little by countries’ economic conditions: Rates are similar among the World Bank’s four income groups—the highest and lowest income-groups range narrowly (rates of 29 and 32 per 1,000 women, respectively). Moreover, women living under the most restrictive laws (i.e., where abortion is prohibited altogether or allowed only to save a woman’s life) have abortions at about the same rate as those living where the procedure is available without restriction as to reason (37 and 34 abortions per 1,000, respectively;

..... abortions take place around the world, no matter the legal setting. Legal abortions are a relatively recent phenomenon:
The mid-to-late 20th century saw a wave of amendments to criminal codes, where most countries spell out exceptions under which induced abortion is not subject to penalties
Abortion Worldwide 2017: Uneven Progress and Unequal Access
***************************************************************
The last time religious conservatives in America attempted to impose their moral code on the majority was "Prohibition," and we all know how that ended!

International studies have shown that making abortion illegal has little impact - it just drives it "underground!"

ProLife advocates are going to be disappointed if they think that they can impose their will by merely stacking the Supreme Court with conservative justices to overturn Roe v Wade!
 
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seekingmuch

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Libertarian, with the exception of being against the state doing anything with abortion.

I'm a moderate Libertarian and think the Dems are obsessed with the far left and the GOP is obsessed with money at all costs. Neither follow Christ, but the GOP has more Christians among them.

I'm sure God doesn't like prostitution, but I think it should be legal and pimps should face 10 years in prison for each count. Pimps are the problem not two consenting adults. Legalize hooking and sex trafficking is no longer an issue. Sex traffic a kid and get 25 years. Make the penalties scary. Pimps are the most useless trash on the planet.

I'm against abortion because it hurts women. God is against it because it stops his work. That latter is hard to argue with those that just think it is biology.

I'm all for legalizing pot, too. Make it legal and tax it to death. Now, keep in mind, if your employer doesn't want you smoking pot, they have that right even if it is legal. And, yeah, I'm all for zero tolerance of drunk and/or high driving. I live in Florida. Our DUI laws are strict, and they should be. A first offense means no DL for a year and you will spend $10,000 in legal costs.
 
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jgarden

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four-wealthiest.png

Matthew 19

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

****************************************************************
When 4 of wealthiest Americans possess approximately the same private wealth as the poorest 40% of the nation, that in itself is the formula for political, social and economic instability!

There has been a massive concentration of private wealth into the hands of a relatively few America over the last 50 years, while the wages for the rest of society have remained stagnant.

Despite the myth of "The American Dream," the US is one of the least upwardly mobile of the world's modern nations.

The capitalist economic model is "broken" for most Americans, and unless there is a concerted effort to correct it in the near future, it will be replaced with a more equitable one!
 
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