Stop Whitesplaining

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TLK Valentine

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Just out of curiosity...

Do any of you see the hypocrisy and doublethink that one has to engage in to be a part of the political spectrum which both claims...

1. People's racial biases shouldn't create disparate outcomes for people of any race (a general description of how you probably think systemic racism occurs).
And...
2. This particular race shouldn't be disagreeing with these other races because they're too ignorant, because of their race, to know what they're talking about. (justifying an attempt to silence the opinions of an entire race...because of a racial bias).

???

Or here's the short version...
1. Don't have racial biases, definitely don't act on them.
2. Unless it's this one and it's about this race.


I'm not asking anyone to abandon liberalism or progressivism or any of that. I'm just curious how someone can hold two obviously conflicting beliefs like that.

Curiosity is a good thing.

I see a lot of loaded and emotional language on your part, and I want you to know, I don't hold it against you. Clearly you found the concept of "whitespaining" offensive, and it would hard for anyone to maintain the cool, calm, and collected attitude necessary to form a rational counter-argument.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Curiosity is a good thing.

I see a lot of loaded and emotional language on your part, and I want you to know, I don't hold it against you. Clearly you found the concept of "whitespaining" offensive, and it would hard for anyone to maintain the cool, calm, and collected attitude necessary to form a rational counter-argument.

What part of that point didn't you understand?

Why are you attacking me instead of the point I made?
 
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1000Flames

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What part of that point didn't you understand?

Why are you attacking me instead of the point I made?
Oh dear, you think they're attacking you? Always playing the victim...perhaps you really should calm down a little. It'll help.
 
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TLK Valentine

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What part of that point didn't you understand?

Why are you attacking me instead of the point I made?

Now, now... this is the problem right here -- you're too emotionally attached to your "point" to see its flaws. You insist on seeing every disagreement as an "attack" -- whether it's on you, personally (which it is not), or between people of different races.

Your idea, articulate as it may be, that the article refers to any kind of racial disagreement even as it specifies dismissive and condescending remarks towards people with more first hand knowledge than the speaker doesn't bolster your point... to suggest it does, as you have, is needlessly divisive and not a productive line of discussion. Perhaps, when you look at this as objectively as the rest of us have, you'll see that too.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Oh dear, you think they're attacking you? Always playing the victim...perhaps you really should calm down a little. It'll help.

This is why we need objective, detached discussions both for and against the ideas presented in the OP... persecution complexes, while all too common, are not helpful.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Oh dear, you think they're attacking you? Always playing the victim...perhaps you really should calm down a little. It'll help.

He addressed me...not the post.

"I see a lot of loaded and emotional language on your part, and I want you to know, I don't hold it against you. Clearly you found the concept of "whitespaining" offensive, and it would hard for anyone to maintain the cool, calm, and collected attitude necessary to form a rational counter-argument."

Times he mentioned me = 4.

Times he mentioned my post = 0.

It's not a matter of what I think...those are facts. He never even mentioned my post.
 
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Ana the Ist

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This is why we need objective, detached discussions both for and against the ideas presented in the OP... persecution complexes, while all too common, are not helpful.

So can you address the post or not?
 
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TLK Valentine

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He addressed me...not the post.

"I see a lot of loaded and emotional language on your part, and I want you to know, I don't hold it against you. Clearly you found the concept of "whitespaining" offensive, and it would hard for anyone to maintain the cool, calm, and collected attitude necessary to form a rational counter-argument."

Times he mentioned me = 4.

Times he mentioned my post = 0.

It's not a matter of what I think...those are facts. He never even mentioned my post.

I clearly and distinctly pointed out (several times, at this point) the logical fallacy in your argument of confusing condescending denials of racism (which the article is about) with any and all disagreement about racism (which was what you apparently got out of the article).

If you'd rather count pronouns than address your error, I'm not sure how we can help you.
 
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TLK Valentine

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So can you address the post or not?

I was doing just that with @1000Flames ....addressing the need for detached and objective viewpoints on this issue, free from the kind of hysterics which all too often muddy up the discussion.
 
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Ana the Ist

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My opinion is that knee jerk reactions aren’t productive, whether it’s the ones in the article or yours...

I can only assure you, I look at each of these racial concepts that the left has invented as closely as I can. I'm not dismissing them because of where they come from...I'm dismissing them based on the racist beliefs they contain and promote.

I've known about "whitesplaining" for some time. At it's core, it's an expansion of the ideas in "white fragility". White fragility, simply put, was a term used to describe whites who don't blankly accept accusations of racism against them. The idea was that being white somehow made whites oblivious of their own racism.

With whitesplaining, that obliviousness of whites is expanded to all racial topics. The basic concept is that white opinions aren't needed or wanted...because they're white...and whites aren't capable of understanding these things as well as non-whites. The only exception is when whites agree with non-whites...but that isn't really necessary for obvious reasons. If someone only believes my points can possibly have validity when I agree with them...they're basically saying that my opinion isn't wanted.

It's extremely racist. Everyone who defended the concept defended it's core racial bias...that's whites are "less than" non-whites in regards to racial opinions. I understand they have reasons why they think these things....I've just never found a valid reason for holding racist beliefs.
 
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TLK Valentine

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I can only assure you, I look at each of these racial concepts that the left has invented as closely as I can. I'm not dismissing them because of where they come from...I'm dismissing them based on the racist beliefs they contain and promote.

I've known about "whitesplaining" for some time. At it's core, it's an expansion of the ideas in "white fragility". White fragility, simply put, was a term used to describe whites who don't blankly accept accusations of racism against them. The idea was that being white somehow made whites oblivious of their own racism.

With whitesplaining, that obliviousness of whites is expanded to all racial topics. The basic concept is that white opinions aren't needed or wanted...because they're white...and whites aren't capable of understanding these things as well as non-whites. The only exception is when whites agree with non-whites...but that isn't really necessary for obvious reasons. If someone only believes my points can possibly have validity when I agree with them...they're basically saying that my opinion isn't wanted.

It's extremely racist. Everyone who defended the concept defended it's core racial bias...that's whites are "less than" non-whites in regards to racial opinions. I understand they have reasons why they think these things....I've just never found a valid reason for holding racist beliefs.

I thought facts mattered?
 
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rambot

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Just out of curiosity...

Do any of you see the hypocrisy and doublethink that one has to engage in to be a part of the political spectrum which both claims...

1. People's racial biases shouldn't create disparate outcomes for people of any race (a general description of how you probably think systemic racism occurs).
And...
2. This particular race shouldn't be disagreeing with these other races because they're too ignorant, because of their race, to know what they're talking about. (justifying an attempt to silence the opinions of an entire race...because of a racial bias).

???

Or here's the short version...
1. Don't have racial biases, definitely don't act on them.
2. Unless it's this bias and it's about this race.


I'm not asking anyone to abandon liberalism or progressivism or any of that. I'm just curious how someone can hold two obviously conflicting beliefs like that.
Don't drag me into this. While I can accept that whitesplaining exists I don't know what this author is trying to argue. A lot of people I tend to agree with are taking a very different understanding of this article than you do. With that said my interest in this topic is barely in passing and I didn't read the article.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I was doing just that with @1000Flames ....addressing the need for detached and objective viewpoints on this issue, free from the kind of hysterics which all too often muddy up the discussion.

You never mentioned the post though or any of the points I made on it. No offense, but I don't care about your personal perceptions of me...they don't have any relevance.

In fact, it's hard to imagine why you would offer them up instead of replying to the post and the argument therein...unless you think this is a good strategy for dodging the points I've made.

So, for the third and last time...

Would you like to address the post???
 
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Ana the Ist

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Don't drag me into this. While I can accept that whitesplaining exists I don't know what this author is trying to argue. A lot of people I tend to agree with are taking a very different understanding of this article than you do. With that said my interest in this topic is barely in passing and I didn't read the article.

My apologies rambot. I honestly meant to include @zephcom in that post and included you instead. I'll edit you out of it.

My mistake.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I thought facts mattered?

They do to me...but not to you. You made it clear that you believe that some people are experts at understanding a concept because of their race...and others cannot be an expert because of their race.

What facts in that post are you referring to anyway? It's really just a demonstration that I didn't write this thread as a knee-jerk reaction.
 
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TLK Valentine

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You never mentioned the post though or any of the points I made on it. No offense, but I don't care about your personal perceptions of me...they don't have any relevance.

In fact, it's hard to imagine why you would offer them up instead of replying to the post and the argument therein...unless you think this is a good strategy for dodging the points I've made.

So, for the third and last time...

Would you like to address the post???

Already done. I addressed its emotional tone, its misrepresentation of the linked article, and its lack of factual support for the conclusions presented. Your choice to ignore all this changes nothing.
 
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TLK Valentine

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They do to me...but not to you. You made it clear that you believe that some people are experts at understanding a concept because of their race...and others cannot be an expert because of their race.

Misrepresenting my position -- again -- is disingenuous if deliberate, and a symptom of the larger problem I was discussing earlier if accidental.

What facts in that post are you referring to anyway? It's really just a demonstration that I didn't write this thread as a knee-jerk reaction.

You didn't see any facts to support your conclusions? The penny drops again.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I clearly and distinctly pointed out (several times, at this point) the logical fallacy in your argument of confusing condescending denials of racism (which the article is about) with any and all disagreement about racism (which was what you apparently got out of the article).

And I pointed out that this is about the validity of a concept. It's not about being condescending...we already have a word for that. What's more is that there's no reason why any race can't make a condescending argument....so why is it specifically about whites?

If you'd rather count pronouns than address your error, I'm not sure how we can help you.

You criticized me...instead of the post. I get it...you don't have a reply to the post.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Or here's the short version...
1. Don't have racial biases, definitely don't act on them.
2. Unless it's this bias and it's about this race.

Sure, let's go head to head.

• Republican lawmakers in Wisconsin engaged in legislative whitesplaining when they blocked their black Democratic counterparts from honoring a former NFL quarterback during Black History Month because he was "too controversial."

Don't tell black people which black people are worthy of honor.

Unless... I'm not sure how to finish this sentence. What was it that the minority legislators did to the majority legislators?
 
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