Stop Whitesplaining

Ana the Ist · Feb 20, 2019

TLK Valentine said:
What makes your "expertise" useful? Clearly, since you've personally experienced more racism in your lifetime than anyone else, you're far too emotionally compromised to be able to contribute to a discussion where facts, not emotions, must take precedence.

How dare you whitesplain away my racial experiences! You don't know me, you don't know my feelings, and I don't need to validate them. I'm claiming expertise...you can't take some condescending tone with me and tell me how I feel is wrong.

That...or facts matter.

essentialsaltes · Feb 20, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
Nor can a black person live a white experience.

Anyone can experience racism though.

Sure, but there are no real 'white' analogues for particular cultural things like blackface or 'Can I touch your hair?' So barring some particular professional expertise, the average white person is in a poor place to explain what these things mean, or how one should feel when one encounters them.

LoAmmi · Feb 20, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
So it is entirely racial? Opinions are right or wrong because of whether or not they are a part of the "dominant race"?

I don't believe it is legitimate to draw that conclusion from what I said

zephcom · Feb 20, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
Typically, this section of the forum is filled with threads on political news. I feet it's important to discuss the ideas of the political spectrum...and luckily, recent events have made this particular idea timely.

Stop 'whitesplaining' racism to me - CNN

This is obviously an opinion piece...but since it cites several essays and a book from those on the left and this is in a mainstream leftwing media site...I feel like it's common enough to discuss.

The article uses a pretty offensive term "whitesplaining" but doesn't actually define it. I'm judging by the context of the article...it means that whites cannot disagree with non-whites in regards to racial issues. No, I'm not joking...take a look...

"To become a victim of "whitesplaining" is infuriating. Imagine a plumber trying to tell a pilot how to land a plane or a man trying to tell a mother what it feels like to give birth."

In this analogy, whites are the plumbers...non-whites are the pilots. Whites are, by virtue of their skin color, condemned to be forever wrong should they disagree with non-whites on racial issues.

The article then goes on to lament the racial attitudes of colonial whites. Then, to the credit of the author, he gets right down to the point...

Can white people ever disagree with non-whites about racial issues and be correct? The author of the book on "whitesplaining" answers...

"It doesn't mean you have to go all out and say, 'You're right, I'm racist and I apologize,' and fall all over yourself apologizing," she adds. "But just for the sake of validating that person's experience, you can say how it's entirely possible for you do a thing that you didn't mean to be racist."

That's right...if you're white and accused of racism, don't try to explain why you weren't. Instead, the proper response is that you didn't mean to be racist. It goes on...

"Racism is not an argument about an idea," he told CNN. "It is an argument about experiences and emotions. So just because someone does not have racist intentions does not mean their actions do not have a racist impact."

So to summarize the idea...if you're white, you shouldn't disagree with non-whites on racial issues. You're simply too ignorant. It's not facts that matter, it's not a person's intentions, it's whether or not someone feels like a victim of racism...and of course, whether or not they are white.

I happen to think it's an extremely racist idea. I think that when we're talking about racism...we are talking about someone's intentions. We are talking about people's behavior and ideas which they are forming because of a person's race. If the reasons why someone does something do not include "race"...then that behavior simply cannot be racist. It doesn't matter if someone believes it was.

I think this racist idea (whitesplaining) amongst others is a part of the problem the left is having these days. Incidents like "Covington vs Natives" or "Smollett Hoax" are in part, because many on the left believe they cannot disagree with a particular version of events without being considered "racist" or perhaps "whitesplaining".

Being white or black or any race doesn't automatically make one an expert on anything except perhaps what is like to be that particular race. We shouldn't deny people their opinions based entirely on what race they are....that's racist. We shouldn't abandon any critical thinking just to validate someone's feelings. It's hard for me to fully describe just how bad I think ideas like these are.

I'm curious what your opinions are...especially if you're on the left...and even more if you happen to think "whitesplaining" is a valid concept.

While I am all in favor of much discussion about racism from all quarters of the issue, I'm not convinced that white people...and that includes me...are competent to fully grasp the racism which pervades the American culture.

It is a lot like how long term wealthy people simply are not capable of understanding the way the masses have to live. And I'm giving a nod to that guy who thought there wasn't any problem with government workers going without paychecks because they could 'just get a loan' to carry them through.

When white people commence 'whitesplaining' it is viewed as someone who has no idea what it means to be a person of color in America. It comes across as condescending.

It is my position that white people need to do much more listening than talking. Because of the racial history in this country...regardless of whether a white person doesn't feel any responsibility for that history...white people should accept that they can not be the ones who declare that racism in America has been defeated. That declaration can only come from those who have been oppressed by that racism.

The bottom line??? White people should stop trying to make believe they 'understand' and pass off their mistakes as just being 'funny'. There is nothing funny about racism in America. White people should stop saying they were 'misunderstood' about what they did or said because they were not aware enough to consider the harm their behavior causes.

One of the hardest things I had to do is accept that I'm a white person and as such I've benefited from racism in America, my culture teaches racism, the laws of my nation and states provide for racism to continue, and that racism will continue as long as white people believe they should be the ones who decides racial issues.

TLK Valentine · Feb 20, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
How dare you whitesplain away my racial experiences!

...aaaaannnnnd the penny finally drops.

rambot · Feb 20, 2019

LivingWordUnity said:
The left sees the black race as a permanent victim of racism.

When really it's only been 200 of the last 243 years.

Apologetic_Warrior · Feb 20, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
I'm curious what your opinions are...especially if you're on the left...and even more if you happen to think "whitesplaining" is a valid concept.

The term "whitesplaining" is racist in and of itself, and in case you have not noticed, the majority, and indeed so far all of the Democrat candidates I'm aware are white. It's a pejorative term used and accepted when the person is white and their politics do not agree with __________ (insert non-white race). I find this type of identity politics extremely divisive and unhelpful to healing division and racial tensions.

Ana the Ist · Feb 20, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
Sure, but there are no real 'white' analogues for particular cultural things like blackface or 'Can I touch your hair?'

Sure.

So barring some particular professional expertise, the average white person is in a poor place to explain what these things mean, or how one should feel when one encounters them.

We are talking about a concept...1 concept. You can understand it or not. You can argue about it. You can be right or wrong about it...but that's really it.

It's not a profession...a set of skills that one gets better at understanding over time. It's not a field of knowledge...a series of concepts that one can know part or most of.
It's just 1 concept...and I've never heard anyone tell anyone "how they should feel about it." Not only does that not really happen..but it doesn't really matter.

Ana the Ist · Feb 20, 2019

TLK Valentine said:
...aaaaannnnnd the penny finally drops.

Yup. It's a completely racist broken idea that the left is pushing.

Thanks for posting though...seriously. This thread doesn't work if liberal posters don't come here and try to defend it.

Ana the Ist · Feb 20, 2019

zephcom said:
While I am all in favor of much discussion about racism from all quarters of the issue, I'm not convinced that white people...and that includes me...are competent to fully grasp the racism which pervades the American culture.

Why not?

It is a lot like how long term wealthy people simply are not capable of understanding the way the masses have to live. And I'm giving a nod to that guy who thought there wasn't any problem with government workers going without paychecks because they could 'just get a loan' to carry them through.

That's a wide range of concepts though...when we're talking about "racism"...we're just talking about 1.

When white people commence 'whitesplaining' it is viewed as someone who has no idea what it means to be a person of color in America. It comes across as condescending.

Why not just call it "condescending" then?

It is my position that white people need to do much more listening than talking. Because of the racial history in this country...regardless of whether a white person doesn't feel any responsibility for that history...white people should accept that they can not be the ones who declare that racism in America has been defeated. That declaration can only come from those who have been oppressed by that racism.

Why?

The bottom line??? White people should stop trying to make believe they 'understand' and pass off their mistakes as just being 'funny'. There is nothing funny about racism in America. White people should stop saying they were 'misunderstood' about what they did or said because they were not aware enough to consider the harm their behavior causes.

What does this have to do with "whitesplaining"? Did you read the article?

One of the hardest things I had to do is accept that I'm a white person

That's one of the hardest things you've had to do?

and as such I've benefited from racism in America, my culture teaches racism,

CNN is spreading it pretty well.

the laws of my nation and states provide for racism to continue,

What national laws are you talking about??

We have national laws against racism.

and that racism will continue as long as white people believe they should be the ones who decides racial issues.

So as a white man...why are you on this thread posting? Shouldn't you be keeping your opinion to yourself now?

Ana the Ist · Feb 20, 2019

LoAmmi said:
I don't believe it is legitimate to draw that conclusion from what I said

Well where did I get it wrong? It sounded like you believe that in any given nation...there's a dominant race that's unaware, in some ways, of their own racism. If I'm off...please tell me how.

zephcom · Feb 20, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
Why not?

That's a wide range of concepts though...when we're talking about "racism"...we're just talking about 1.

Why not just call it "condescending" then?

Why?

What does this have to do with "whitesplaining"? Did you read the article?

That's one of the hardest things you've had to do?

CNN is spreading it pretty well.

What national laws are you talking about??

We have national laws against racism.

So as a white man...why are you on this thread posting? Shouldn't you be keeping your opinion to yourself now?

Because racism in America is a lived experience and white people have never lived it.

Condensation is a white term. Whitesplainin is a colored term. It is racist to insist they -have- to use white words.

Because of the history of racism white people have lost their credibility.

CNN hasn't even scratched the surface. However a white would consider that CNN has been doing a pretty good job.

National laws like sentencing guidelines which allow all judges to arbitrarily give shorter sentences to whites and longer sentences to POC. Immigration laws which all workers to decide whether to enforce against white people or POC. Laws which allow federal attorneys to decide who to charge and who not to charge. When one looks around with the concept that anytime an individual employee of the government is given flexibility without accountability, you have a law which allows racism to exist.

We have laws against pollution too. What is your point?

I'm not trying to decide for POC what they should accept as fair. POC are free to agree or disagree with me. If they disagree, I will accept their point without arguing with them.

Are you a person of color? You sport an avatar which is white.

essentialsaltes · Feb 20, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
Sure.

Spiffy.

I've never heard anyone tell anyone "how they should feel about it." Not only does that not really happen..but it doesn't really matter.

• Republican lawmakers in Wisconsin engaged in legislative whitesplaining when they blocked their black Democratic counterparts from honoring a former NFL quarterback during Black History Month because he was "too controversial."

'You black people shouldn't be honoring that black person. You are having wrong feelings.'

TLK Valentine · Feb 20, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
Yup. It's a completely racist broken idea that the left is pushing.

Thanks for posting though...seriously. This thread doesn't work if liberal posters don't come here and try to defend it.

Earlier you said (to your credit) that facts matter. Don't you think that it would be a good idea to present one or two before claiming victory?

Ana the Ist · Feb 20, 2019

zephcom said:
Because racism in America is a lived experience and white people have never lived it.

You don't think whites can experience racism? Or...did you mean something else?

Condensation is a white term. Whitesplainin is a colored term. It is racist to insist they -have- to use white words.

I'm going to disagree. I don't think words belong to "races"...which sounds pretty racist in itself. We can disagree on the meaning of words...but ultimately, if we're going to talk, we need to understand what each other are saying.

What makes the term racist...is that it promotes a racist belief about an entire race. It's not a correct belief...because it's based on racist generalizations about whites. No poster here has been able to defend the term without portraying whites as generally ignorant and unable to understand a simple concept. That is profoundly racist.

Because of the history of racism white people have lost their credibility.

So because of my skin color...I've lost credibility? That's remarkably similar to the ideas of colonial slave owners in regards to blacks. They aren't credible because of their race. They need a white person to confirm their testimony.

Now, you're saying that whites need non-whites to give them correct opinions on race. Your inability to see this would be pretty remarkable if so many on the left weren't the same.

CNN hasn't even scratched the surface. However a white would consider that CNN has been doing a pretty good job.

More racial prejudices huh? The sad thing is that you don't even realize the damage that promoting racist beliefs like this does. You're telling 60+% of the population that they shouldn't express their opinions on racial issues. Then you struggle to wonder why things seem to be getting worse in that regard.

National laws like sentencing guidelines which allow all judges to arbitrarily give shorter sentences to whites and longer sentences to POC.

Sentencing guidelines include nothing about the race of an individual.

Immigration laws which all workers to decide whether to enforce against white people or POC.

Immigration laws apply to everyone who crosses our borders...regardless of race.

Laws which allow federal attorneys to decide who to charge and who not to charge.

Who else would even decide that? If an attorney cannot possibly win a case...why would he charge that subject?

When one looks around with the concept that anytime an individual employee of the government is given flexibility without accountability, you have a law which allows racism to exist.

Flexibility is necessary for justice.

We have laws against pollution too. What is your point?

If someone breaks those laws and you can prove it...you can charge them with a crime. It happens.

I'm not trying to decide for POC what they should accept as fair.

I don't know anyone who is...

I suppose if you believe that the opinions of whites don't matter because they are white....well then you're telling people how they should feel and what to accept. It's really only the left that's doing this on a large scale though.

POC are free to agree or disagree with me. If they disagree, I will accept their point without arguing with them.

Why? Because being a POC makes one correct?

Are you a person of color? You sport an avatar which is white.

Is that information important to your position? Can't my argument be weighed on it's merits alone?

Ana the Ist · Feb 20, 2019

TLK Valentine said:
Earlier you said (to your credit) that facts matter. Don't you think that it would be a good idea to present one or two before claiming victory?

About what?

It's not my idea...it's the left's idea and you're defending it. I presented facts in the OP...you ignored them. You made it abundantly clear that we shouldn't question the racial experiences or expertise of those who have had more of them. They are experts in your opinion.

I'm declaring myself an expert. I hope you can remain consistent about your beliefs in our future discussions.

Ana the Ist · Feb 20, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
Spiffy.

Take blackface. The act, in itself, is about putting on makeup to impersonate a black person...generally to entertain others with racial caricatures and stereotypes.

Yes, black entertainers do this to whites as well. Before you say it...I'm fully aware of it's history. That doesn't make it racist or not racist though. What makes it racist is the appearance is based on racist prejudices...and it's used to have a laugh at racial prejudices.

• Republican lawmakers in Wisconsin engaged in legislative whitesplaining when they blocked their black Democratic counterparts from honoring a former NFL quarterback during Black History Month because he was "too controversial."

'You black people shouldn't be honoring that black person. You are having wrong feelings.'

They voted their opinions...just like the black Democrats were. Some thought he should be honored...some didn't.

You're saying that as a white person I can't disagree with who should be celebrated for their achievements? Why? Because I'm white?

Also- are you dropping the whole "experts on racism" idea now? Because I think I've got a good analogy if you haven't.

MehGuy · Feb 20, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
T

So to summarize the idea...if you're white, you shouldn't disagree with non-whites on racial issues. You're simply too ignorant. It's not facts that matter, it's not a person's intentions, it's whether or not someone feels like a victim of racism...and of course, whether or not they are white.

I happen to think it's an extremely racist idea. I think that when we're talking about racism...we are talking about someone's intentions. We are talking about people's behavior and ideas which they are forming because of a person's race. If the reasons why someone does something do not include "race"...then that behavior simply cannot be racist. It doesn't matter if someone believes it was.

I think this racist idea (whitesplaining) amongst others is a part of the problem the left is having these days. Incidents like "Covington vs Natives" or "Smollett Hoax" are in part, because many on the left believe they cannot disagree with a particular version of events without being considered "racist" or perhaps "whitesplaining".

Being white or black or any race doesn't automatically make one an expert on anything except perhaps what is like to be that particular race. We shouldn't deny people their opinions based entirely on what race they are....that's racist. We shouldn't abandon any critical thinking just to validate someone's feelings. It's hard for me to fully describe just how bad I think ideas like these are.

I'm curious what your opinions are...especially if you're on the left...and even more if you happen to think "whitesplaining" is a valid concept.

"Whitesplaining" sounds like another term that is designed to control the narrative. I wouldn't be surprised if "whitesplaining" is more acceptable when a white person does it to a POC in an effort to convince the person of color that he/she is a victim of racism when the POC actually disagrees, lol.

A couple of years ago I could have probably been described as a social justice warrior when it came to the subject of race. Growing up in a public school system in a mostly white area I was bombarded with history lessons and videos about how abusive whites were towards racial minorities. As a consequence I dealt with a lot of "white guilt". Ironically the cure to my white guilt problem was actually interacting with POC as I grew older. The notion of not "whitesplaining" was natural to me and I fell into a few one sided conversations with a POC about race. The problem is that some POC are actually being too emotional and see race in everything (which isn't psychologically healthy for anyone). My patience wore thin and I stopped interacting with them. Funnily my sjw mind still did not feel comfortable "invalidating" their experiences. There was no rebuttal on my end, I just left.

One thing I wonder concerning white people who champion the term "whitesplaining" is how much interaction with POC they really have. Most of the people I meet who are more sane and balanced when it comes to racial issues actually have a diverse group of friends. They do not view POC as just some pure innocent group who are not prone to error and emotional problems. You can't actually maintain real meaningful relationships with others having that mindset.

TLK Valentine · Feb 20, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
About what?

It's not my idea...it's the left's idea and you're defending it. I presented facts in the OP...you ignored them.

Now you see, misrepresentations are not facts. Just thought you should know.

You made it abundantly clear that we shouldn't question the racial experiences or expertise of those who have had more of them. They are experts in your opinion.

Strawmen aren't facts either. Just for future reference.

I see you're upset, and we're not going to make any progress with you until you calm down and recognize your errors.

I'm declaring myself an expert. I hope you can remain consistent about your beliefs in our future discussions.

Clearly you're very emotionally attached to this issue... as someone who has experienced more racism in his lifetime than anyone else, perhaps you're too close to it to see it rationally and objectively?

Ana the Ist · Feb 20, 2019

TLK Valentine said:
Earlier you said (to your credit) that facts matter. Don't you think that it would be a good idea to present one or two before claiming victory?

essentialsaltes said:
Spiffy.

• Republican lawmakers in Wisconsin engaged in legislative whitesplaining when they blocked their black Democratic counterparts from honoring a former NFL quarterback during Black History Month because he was "too controversial."

'You black people shouldn't be honoring that black person. You are having wrong feelings.'

Just out of curiosity...

Do any of you see the hypocrisy and doublethink that one has to engage in to be a part of the political spectrum which both claims...

1. People's racial biases shouldn't create disparate outcomes for people of any race (a general description of how you probably think systemic racism occurs).
And...
2. This particular race shouldn't be disagreeing with these other races because they're too ignorant, because of their race, to know what they're talking about. (justifying an attempt to silence the opinions of an entire race...because of a racial bias).

???

Or here's the short version...
1. Don't have racial biases, definitely don't act on them.
2. Unless it's this bias and it's about this race.

I'm not asking anyone to abandon liberalism or progressivism or any of that. I'm just curious how someone can hold two obviously conflicting beliefs like that.

Stop Whitesplaining

Aggressively serene!

Stranger in a Strange Land

Dispassionate

Well-Known Member

I've already read the books you want burned.

Senior Member

Pilgrim

Aggressively serene!

Aggressively serene!

Aggressively serene!

Aggressively serene!

Well-Known Member

Stranger in a Strange Land

I've already read the books you want burned.

Aggressively serene!

Aggressively serene!

Aggressively serene!

A member of the less neotenous sex..

I've already read the books you want burned.

Aggressively serene!

Similar threads