Differing translations of Romans 3:21-26

dms1972 said:

I recently came across comments by NT Wright about how the NIV translates these verses, particularly the phrase pistis Christou in verse 22 (His comments are not recent they were made in 2009 and I think I recall hearing about it at that time, but not thinking a lot into it). Wright's comments are quite strong. Apparently having at first welcomed the NIV when it came out, as he began to teach from it he became increasing disillusioned with it. He has said people using the NIV alone will have trouble understanding Paul. In fact he puts it more strongly, "that they will never understand what Paul was talking about."

N.T. Wright Slams the NIV – Christian Monthly Standard

Ok what I want to ask: is this just a conflict with NT Wright's theology, or is the NIV really deficient in conveying the Apostle Paul's meaning?

I think I was always aware there was a change of preposition in verse 22, from faith of Jesus Christ...[KJV], to faith in Jesus Christ...

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (original NIV)

Later editions of the NIV are slightly different but still have the preposition faith in Jesus.

This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Wright from what I can gather prefer the wording faithfulness of Jesus Christ.

As these verses are frequently said the most important verses in the Bible, it would be good to know what the best translation of them is.

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The difficulty comes not from the translation but from the manuscripts used to produce the translation. Among all the available manuscripts there exists minor differences. Many of them are later interpolations added by those who preserved them. One manuscript has a certain wording that differs from some older manuscript. It is up to the translators to surmise which is the original wording. After the translation is published some later evidence may be found supporting the manuscript originally rejected and a revised version is published.

None of that means that either is correct, but only that the best evidence supports one or the other.

Accurate translations are important but none of them are the original. Also having the perfect translation won't teach us by plain text the whole context. So I'd try not to emphasis certain words or verses except look for the context relating it to the surrounding text or similar text elsewhere. Then compare notes with others when discussing something.

dms1972 said:

I recently came across comments by NT Wright about how the NIV translates these verses, particularly the phrase pistis Christou in verse 22 (His comments are not recent they were made in 2009 and I think I recall hearing about it at that time, but not thinking a lot into it). Wright's comments are quite strong. Apparently having at first welcomed the NIV when it came out, as he began to teach from it he became increasing disillusioned with it. He has said people using the NIV alone will have trouble understanding Paul. In fact he puts it more strongly, "that they will never understand what Paul was talking about."

N.T. Wright Slams the NIV – Christian Monthly Standard

Ok what I want to ask: is this just a conflict with NT Wright's theology, or is the NIV really deficient in conveying the Apostle Paul's meaning?

I think I was always aware there was a change of preposition in verse 22, from faith of Jesus Christ...[KJV], to faith in Jesus Christ...[NIV]

v22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (KJV)


This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (NIV)

Later editions of the NIV are slightly different but still have the preposition faith in Jesus.

This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Wright from what I can gather would prefer the rendering faithfulness of Jesus Christ.

As these verses are frequently said the most important verses in the Bible, it would be good to know which is the best translation of them.

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Faith IN and faith OF are two very different things

I would say the KJV would be the best one to use. This is how one person put it,


Note 3 at Romans 3:22: Notice that Paul did not say that this righteousness of God came by faith in Jesus Christ. No, it comes by the faith of Jesus Christ. There is a big difference.

Our faith does not produce our righteousness. Jesus obtained righteousness (the perfect righteousness of God) through His faith and offers it to everyone who will believe on Him as Lord. Therefore, our faith (which is also a gift from God, Ephesians 2:8) just receives what Jesus has already obtained for us through His faith. Jesus obtained our justification and righteousness through His faith (Galatians 2:16).

I had a Bible study once where this came up at well, and so this is how they explained it.

I hope this helps


*Edit*

Galatians 2:16 had the same wording as well,

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

dms1972 said:

v22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (KJV)

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I'm far from being a Bible scholar but I'll share some thoughts.

In Strong's Greek, the word 'dia' A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional).

Here's a couple other verses that I think can give us insight.

Here 'by' is the same word, 'dia'.
Rom_5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Here again 'by' is the same word, 'dia'.
2Co_5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Is NT Wright saying this is speaking about the 'faithfulness' of Christ Himself in obeying His Father by giving His life?

dms1972 said:

I recently came across comments by NT Wright about how the NIV translates these verses, particularly the phrase pistis Christou in verse 22 (His comments are not recent they were made in 2009 and I think I recall hearing about it at that time, but not thinking a lot into it). Wright's comments are quite strong. Apparently having at first welcomed the NIV when it came out, as he began to teach from it he became increasing disillusioned with it. He has said people using the NIV alone will have trouble understanding Paul. In fact he puts it more strongly, "that they will never understand what Paul was talking about."

N.T. Wright Slams the NIV – Christian Monthly Standard

Ok what I want to ask: is this just a conflict with NT Wright's theology, or is the NIV really deficient in conveying the Apostle Paul's meaning?

I think I was always aware there was a change of preposition in verse 22, from faith of Jesus Christ...[KJV], to faith in Jesus Christ...[NIV]

v22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (KJV)


This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (NIV)

Later editions of the NIV are slightly different but still have the preposition faith in Jesus.

This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Wright from what I can gather would prefer the rendering faithfulness of Jesus Christ.

As these verses are frequently said the most important verses in the Bible, it would be good to know which is the best translation of them.

Click to expand...

NT Wright has a very specific agenda and he is very concerned with how he can use scripture to support that agenda - not with the truth.

I wouldn't listen to a word he says.

The NIV is a far better modern language translation...

dms1972 said:

I recently came across comments by NT Wright about how the NIV translates these verses, particularly the phrase pistis Christou in verse 22 (His comments are not recent they were made in 2009 and I think I recall hearing about it at that time, but not thinking a lot into it). Wright's comments are quite strong. Apparently having at first welcomed the NIV when it came out, as he began to teach from it he became increasing disillusioned with it. He has said people using the NIV alone will have trouble understanding Paul. In fact he puts it more strongly, "that they will never understand what Paul was talking about."

N.T. Wright Slams the NIV – Christian Monthly Standard

Ok what I want to ask: is this just a conflict with NT Wright's theology, or is the NIV really deficient in conveying the Apostle Paul's meaning?

I think I was always aware there was a change of preposition in verse 22, from faith of Jesus Christ...[KJV], to faith in Jesus Christ...[NIV]

v22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (KJV)

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (NIV)

Later editions of the NIV are slightly different but still have the preposition faith in Jesus.

This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Wright from what I can gather would prefer the rendering faithfulness of Jesus Christ.

As these verses are frequently said the most important verses in the Bible, it would be good to know which is the best translation of them.

Click to expand...

Here are 5 greek text and all agree it is "faith of Jesus Christ"

ISA Inter}
Righteousness yet of God thru/by faith of Jesus Christ into all *and upon all*
the ones believing, for not is being distinction<1293>.

Greek New Testament - Parallel Greek New Testament by John Hurt

Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
dikaiosunh de qeou dia pistewV ihsou cristou eiV pantaV kai epi pantas
touV pisteuontaV ou gar estin diastolh

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
dikaiosunh de qeou dia pistewV ihsou cristou eiV pantaV kai epi pantas
touV pisteuontaV ou gar estin diastolh

Byzantine Majority
dikaiosunh de qeou dia pistewV ihsou cristou eiV pantaV kai epi pantas
touV pisteuontaV ou gar estin diastolh

Alexandrian
dikaiosunh de qeou dia pistewV ihsou cristou eiV pantaV
touV pisteuontaV ou gar estin diastolh

Hort and Westcott
dikaiosunh de qeou dia pistewV ihsou cristou eiV pantaV t
ouV pisteuontaV ou gar estin diastolh

King James Bible
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all *and upon all* them that believe: for there is no difference:

New American Standard Bible
even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

New International Version
This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Berean Literal Bible
And the righteousness of God is through faith from Jesus Christ toward all those believing. For there is no distinction,

Douay-Rheims Bible
Even the justice of God, by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe in him: for there is no distinction:

Young's Literal Translation
and the righteousness of God is through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference,

Hazelelponi said:

NT Wright has a very specific agenda and he is very concerned with how he can use scripture to support that agenda - not with the truth.

I wouldn't listen to a word he says.

The NIV is a far better modern language translation...

Click to expand...

I started out with the NIV in 2003 and wore out 2 of them. I believe it is a good starter version for Christians just coming to the faith.I now prefer the more literal Young's Literal Translation.

I then started learning the Greek and Hebrew and now do my own translations.

dms1972 said:

I recently came across comments by NT Wright about how the NIV translates these verses, particularly the phrase pistis Christou in verse 22 (His comments are not recent they were made in 2009 and I think I recall hearing about it at that time, but not thinking a lot into it). Wright's comments are quite strong. Apparently having at first welcomed the NIV when it came out, as he began to teach from it he became increasing disillusioned with it. He has said people using the NIV alone will have trouble understanding Paul. In fact he puts it more strongly, "that they will never understand what Paul was talking about."

N.T. Wright Slams the NIV – Christian Monthly Standard

Ok what I want to ask: is this just a conflict with NT Wright's theology, or is the NIV really deficient in conveying the Apostle Paul's meaning?

I think I was always aware there was a change of preposition in verse 22, from faith of Jesus Christ...[KJV], to faith in Jesus Christ...[NIV]

v22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (KJV)


This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (NIV)

Later editions of the NIV are slightly different but still have the preposition faith in Jesus.

This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Wright from what I can gather would prefer the rendering faithfulness of Jesus Christ.

As these verses are frequently said the most important verses in the Bible, it would be good to know which is the best translation of them.

Click to expand...

22 Even <1161> the righteousness <1343> of God <2316> which is by <1223> faith <4102> of Jesus <2424> Christ <5547> unto <1519> all <3956> and <2532> upon <1909> all <3956> them that believe <4100> (5723): for <1063> there is <2076> (5748) no <3756> difference <1293>:

The way I see it, the "of" isn't even a word in the original language it is added to make sense in English.

LittleLambofJesus said:

I started out with the NIV in 2003 and wore out 2 of them. I believe it is a good starter version for Christians just coming to the faith.I now prefer the more literal Young's Literal Translation.

I then started learning the Greek and Hebrew and now do my own translations.

Click to expand...

What is it that most attracted you to Young's translation compared to other of the more literal translations? I've never really looked at the YLT before.

I like the NIV for getting a general idea of the message, but it's not good to be entirely dependent on it as this thread is good for pointing out.

It seems to me after looking carefully at the different renderings mentioned on the thread, that faith in Jesus Christ is consistent with other Scriptural teaching concerning our attitude to Christ.

One rendering says, "faith from Jesus Christ". This is also consistent with other Scriptural teaching in terms of faith given to us by Jesus Christ, ie: the gift of faith, for example.

The next rendering, "faith of Jesus Christ" is consistent with the Scripture "Have faith in God" (Mark 11:22). Some have rendered it "have the faith of God", and the Greek says "Have faith from God".

If we combine all three renderings, then we can have faith in Christ, faith is given to us from God, and the quality of the faith is the same as God's own faith. It makes faith a very powerful attribute that can certainly moves mountains! It shows that faith is much more than just a head belief, but an absolute trust and confidence in Christ that inspires commensurate action.

Michael Collum said:

22 Even <1161> the righteousness <1343> of God <2316> which is by <1223> faith <4102> of Jesus <2424> Christ <5547> unto <1519> all <3956> and <2532> upon <1909> all <3956> them that believe <4100> (5723): for <1063> there is <2076> (5748) no <3756> difference <1293>:

The way I see it, the "of" isn't even a word in the original language it is added to make sense in English.

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The Greek is using the genitive case for the word, Christ, Christou, which is predominantly possessive, so would typically be translated as "Christ's" or as "of Christ". To add a word for "of" here would be unnecessary and redundant since the word ending already accounts for it.

bekkilyn said:

The Greek is using the genitive case for the word, Christ, Christou, which is predominantly possessive, so would typically be translated as "Christ's" or as "of Christ". To add a word for "of" here would be unnecessary and redundant since the word ending already accounts for it.

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Thanks for that. I find the NIV translators tend to change the translation from one version to the next based on public reaction in the churches.

LittleLambofJesus said:

I started out with the NIV in 2003 and wore out 2 of them. I believe it is a good starter version for Christians just coming to the faith.I now prefer the more literal Young's Literal Translation.

I then started learning the Greek and Hebrew and now do my own translations.

Click to expand...

I like looking at several translations, that way I feel I often get a better sense as to what was being conveyed by the original writer

bekkilyn said:

What is it that most attracted you to Young's translation compared to other of the more literal translations? I've never really looked at the YLT before.

I like the NIV for getting a general idea of the message, but it's not good to be entirely dependent on it as this thread is good for pointing out.

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One of the reasons I like it is it's rendering of "gehenna", "age ages" and "temple vs sanctuary/shrine", esecially the Temple and Santuary

YLT is how I found out the the word "temple" is never used once in Revelation and thus I began a deeper study on that.

G3485
Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

Genesis 1:1 (YLT)

This is my translation from the Greek texts on these verses [I have this posted on this other thread].

New House New Stones

Luke 1:8
And it came to pass, in his acting as priest in the order of his course before God, 9 according to the custom of the priesthood, his lot was to make perfume, having gone into the Sanctuary<3485> of the Lord, 10 and all the multitude of the people were praying without, at the hour of the perfume
11 And a Messenger of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right of the Altar of the incense.
12 And having seen him, Zechariah was troubled, and fear fell upon him.

Similar event is shown in Revelation 8 showing a Messenger standing at the Golden Altar:

Revelation 8:3
Then another Messenger, having a golden censer, came and stood at the Altar.
He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the Saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

I would think it is the Golden Altar being measured?

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>, without of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854>, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations and the holy City they shall be treading<3961> forty two months.

bekkilyn said: ↑
The Greek is using the genitive case for the word, Christ, Christou, which is predominantly possessive, so would typically be translated as "Christ's" or as "of Christ". To add a word for "of" here would be unnecessary and redundant since the word ending already accounts for it.

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Excellent! It is indeed Genitive.

I like the Koine greek more than the transliterated greek.
Here is a site that has it and if you hover your mouse pointer over a word it has a lexicon info of it. I can also cut and paste from it.

Greek and Hebrew Reader Online

22 δικαιοσύνη δὲ θεοῦ διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, εἰς πάντας τοὺς πιστεύοντας· οὐ γάρ ἐστιν διαστολή·1

This probably won't be much help. but here is what I see here.


There is no explicit preposition, but the Textus Receptus, the Byzantine, and Westcott-Hort all have "pistis" as a noun in the genitive case, so "of" is a good interpolation for the phrase to make sense in English.

The problem is that pistis (G4102) can have several meanings. It can mean its most common rendering, having belief, it can mean the body of truth we believe in - the Gospel, and it can mean the character quality, faithfulness. There's often an overlap between meanings, and I find that sometimes a verse can be rendered using more than one of them.

We have a clue here, though. In Romans 3.3 Paul has just used the same construction, in the same genitive case, except with God rather than Christ:

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God [την πιστιν του θεου] without effect? -Rom 3:3

What does this mean? That God has faith? Or the body of truth about God? Or God's faithfulness? I can understand all views. God had perfect faith in His plan, and that His Son, Christ Jesus, would carry it out. The body of truth surrounding God, the Gospel, when heard with faith, is the means of salvation. And behind it all is God's faithfulness to man and to His original plans for creation.

Back to Romans 3.22:


I see this the same way. Christ Jesus was faithful. As our Forerunner, He walked by faith, having divested Himself of glory when He walked the Earth. And it is all chronicled in His message of salvation, the Gospel.

dms1972 said:

Thanks for pointing that out. I think Wright would likely acknowledge that there are minor variations between manuscripts, his issue seems to be about the criteria or how the translators reached the decision on which manuscript to go with, and that it seems to him to have been guided by a theological preference as well as textual considerations.

When selecting which manuscript to go with is there not a non-subjective method to arrive at a best opinion on which is the original wording. Should theological preferences figure in it?

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I don't think that theological preferences should be a factor at all. For instance, the KJV mentions "godhead" three times but translates two different, though similar, words as godhead. The NIV translates them as "divine nature", but to the translators of the KJV the nature of the Divine is a godhead.

I mention that only to illustrate a theological bias in translation, but that is also the reason for many of the variances in manuscripts. They were never made for any nefarious reasons, but only as clarifications. But then the clarifications stem from theological bias whether that bias is right or wrong.