Must we endure in the faith by continuously believing and repenting?

Invalidusername

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I have a lord lord friend who continually walks in the steps of the self serving thus opposing God's will, yet seems to think because she believes Jesus was the Son of God, she can do as she pleases now because all will be forgiven.

There are many people like that. Unfortunately I was like that for a while, I fell into deep sin and believed in OSAS and that God would somehow make me repent of my sins eventually. It never happened and one day I realized my error when the veil was removed from my eyes. There is a too late and I fear that more people reach that point far before their lives are over. There is no verse that says, "As long as you are still breathing, there is hope!" There is a too late and it can occur during this life, unfortunately.
 
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Foxfyre

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Haven't you ever been blessed (lol) by reading my full page of NT verses, which are trying to teach us that
those who practice righteousness are the ones
who are righteous in God's eyes!

For me, it is obvious ... BACs who are involved in
habitual (unrepentant) sin are NOT righteous
(not living righteously) in God's eyes!

So, here we are again: seeing that what was given to us
when we were born-again MUST be continued on by us
thru our co-operation with the most precious Holy Spirit,
as He tries to fully sanctify us ... to make us holy.
"holiness, without which no one will see the Lord."
(Hebrews 12:14)


Please refer to my signature below
in glorious black, red, and blue (which
has been born-again from NKJV to NLT).
Truly, this beats up some people so much
that they are black and blue as a result
(and just maybe red-faced as well) ...

I'm sorry but I simply don't believe any of us are perfect enough to EARN righteousness by merit or by effort. We obey the intent of the Scriptures because we love God and not to earn salvation. The Lord God loves us and promises us eternal life by God's gift of grace, not by works. Works are evidence of that grace, but not the reason for it.
 
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BCsenior

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I'm sorry but I simply don't believe any of us are perfect enough to EARN righteousness by merit or by effort. We obey the intent of the Scriptures because we love God and not to earn salvation. The Lord God loves us and promises us eternal life by God's gift of grace, not by works. Works are evidence of that grace, but not the reason for it.
Yes, most everyone seems to mis-understand me
when I talk of "works salvation".
Such co-operation simply proves one's righteousness!

1 John 3:
7 Little children, let no one deceive you.
He who practices righteousness is righteous,

just as He is righteous.
8 He who sins is of the devil,
for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,
that He might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin,
for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin,
because he has been born of God.
10 In this the children of God and

the children of the devil are manifest:
Whoever does not practice righteousness
is not of God, nor is he who does not
love his brother.
 
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Invalidusername

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I'm sorry but I simply don't believe any of us are perfect enough to EARN righteousness by merit or by effort. We obey the intent of the Scriptures because we love God and not to earn salvation. The Lord God loves us and promises us eternal life by God's gift of grace, not by works. Works are evidence of that grace, but not the reason for it.

Someone practicing righteousness is proving that they are righteous and not earning it. When someone repents and believes on Jesus, they get that new innate nature. Then they start living out their lives to conform to God's image.

The Bible calls it the fruit. The fruit of a righteous man is righteous living. Righteous living in itself does not save us. However if the righteous man decides to start deliberately sinning and never repents, he is in trouble. I honestly do not understand salvation as in if it can be lost or not but I do know the Bible says that someone can be delivered from the defilement of the world and then go back into it and his soul is worse off than when he did not know the truth. Sounds clearly like someone who was severed from the vine and cut off from God.

Ezekiel 33
12“And you, son of man, say to your people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him when he transgresses, and as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall by it when he turns from his wickedness, and the righteous shall not be able to live by his righteousness when he sins. 13Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered, but in his injustice that he has done he shall die.
 
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BCsenior

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Invalidusername

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There are several NT verses ...
which obviously refer to losing salvation!

I agree. However Jesus further confuses it by saying that none of those that have been given to Jesus will be lost.

I believe that salvation can be lost but I do not understand how that works with the other verses where Jesus promises that all of the elect will be saved.

My only solution is that those who apostate from the faith were never of the elect. Just because someone is saved does not mean that they are of the elect. I could be wrong.
 
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BCsenior

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... none of those that have been given to Jesus will be lost ... Just because someone is saved does not mean that they are of the elect. I could be wrong.
John 6:
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me,
and the one who comes to Me
I will by no means cast out.


But, the BAC can cast himself out.

Yes, God knows who the true elect are ...
those who will actually make it to heaven.
So, perhaps when He speaks of the elect,
He is referring to these BACs!
 
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Invalidusername

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John 6:
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me,
and the one who comes to Me
I will by no means cast out.


But, the BAC can cast himself out.

That's a very simplistic argument.

But if you really think about it: What must happen in order for the BAC to "cast himself out"? The devil must tempt him. The flesh must tempt him. Eventually the "BAC" will succumb and then "cast himself out". This would mean that Jesus failed to keep him. Jesus allowed him to be tempted above what he could bear and now he is eternally lost. While it is certainly the "BAC"'s fault, it is also Jesus' fault for not maintaining the elect as He promised to do. "Nobody can snatch them out of my hand", means that He will not allow the devil to snatch them and how does this snatching happen? By tempting the BAC to "jump out of Jesus' hand".

I am aware of all of the arguments of both eternal security and loss of salvation so yes, I have considered that premise as well and found it lacking. I also find eternal security lacking too as well.
 
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Invalidusername

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Invalidated (unforunately, not validated yet) ...

It's that olde free-will thing again!
Who thinks their free-will can over-ride God's wishes?
I do.

Both of your arguments cannot be false.
Both of your arguments cannot be true.

We have free will but yet God is the one who is in control. It is a weird unexplainable paradox.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I once believed that BACs did not sin after I got saved because of my new nature but I found out quickly that I was wrong. If you continue in willful sin, you are risking spiritual death and the unpardonable sin.
Please share any verses that clearly state this.
 
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FreeGrace2

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There are many pastors and professing believers going to hell. I believe that it is possible for a genuine believer to apostatize and go to hell too.
This statement means that you don't believe what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life to, then. Why is that? John 10:28 is clear: those who receive eternal life shall never perish.
 
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FreeGrace2

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There is no verse that says, "As long as you are still breathing, there is hope!"
Correct.

But there IS a verse that states in the clearest of language that those who receive the gift of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28.

And the gift of eternal life is given WHEN one believes, as Jesus clearly stated, in John 5:24 and 6:47.
 
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John 6:
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me,
and the one who comes to Me
I will by no means cast out.


But, the BAC can cast himself out.
Why do you continue to make claims that are not found in the Bible?
 
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FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
Please share any verses that clearly state this.
Hebrews 6:4-6, Hebrews 10:26-31, 2 Peter 2:20-22, and the parable of the vine in John.
Nope. None of them speak of losing salvation. One MUST assume they are referring to that.

But NONE of them say that.

And please explain how Jesus could say what He said in John 10:28 if salvation can be lost.
 
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Invalidusername

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This statement means that you don't believe what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life to, then. Why is that? John 10:28 is clear: those who receive eternal life shall never perish.

It clearly says that if you believe in the Son, you will have life. If someone at one point repented and believed and then recanted that belief, how can this verse apply to him now?

Also there are plenty of verses that say, "And by this you have been saved IF you continue in it."
 
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Invalidusername

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FreeGrace2 said:
Please share any verses that clearly state this.

Nope. None of them speak of losing salvation. One MUST assume they are referring to that.

But NONE of them say that.

And please explain how Jesus could say what He said in John 10:28 if salvation can be lost.

I hate to tell you but after my repentance and belief, I slowly fell back into sin again. Now you are in the dilemma of "You were never truly saved." or "You were saved but lost it."

Consider Hebrews 12:15.

"See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;"
 
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We have free will but yet God is the one who is in control. It is a weird unexplainable paradox.
Actually, Adam (thanks to Eve)
gave dominion over to Satan,
and thus God allows Satan to be ...
"the god of this age" & "the ruler of this world"
so it is not as simple as all of that.

How much free will does everyone have?
Satan's is limited, but how about ours?
 
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