Is God really Omnipotent?

devin553344 said:

While I would like to believe that. I should point out some opposition to those ideas for conjecture.

God apparently made heaven perfect. And some people don't get to be there in that perfect place He created. Only the earth is imperfect. And he created that too. Jesus is supposed to return and perfect the earthly existence in the millennium?

According to plan? Well you could look at someone that lost an arm or leg in war and say it wasn't planned by God. I would think people make choices and God and Satan influence them to choose. And that's why we hold people accountable in court for their actions. It's also why Satan is destined to spirit prison. Perhaps peoples plans are being carried out at times, not Gods?

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This present evil age, is just the scaffolding for this particular phase of God's work. This idea is that God is going to burn sinners in hell for all eternity, is a church doctrine, it's not scriptural.

devin553344 said:

I've started to realize that God may not be fully omnipotent. For instance he doesn't make the world a perfect place, but heaven he does? He doesn't answer all prayers? So is he omnipotent?

Can you prove that He is omnipotent?

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He is omnipotent because he has the power/ability to do all things, but through love and grace He chooses not to exercise doing all things. So it is in His power to make the world a perfect place, but we do not understand what that would probably take to have that happen. It is in His power to answer all prayers, but we can't forsee the consequences of that like God does.

It's not something that can be proven by ordinary means as through testing and experimentation, but logically since we are the creation of the Creator, then by default, He is also the one with all the power.

devin553344 said:

I think I understand but must ask one silly question: Is then life more like a dream, where we just go along with predestination and what God created before earth existed?

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I wouldn't think so. We really are free agents, but somehow everything that will occur was decreed to happen. God's interaction with our willful choices are real, but our choice and his respond were suppose to occur. It is mind-boggling to be sure. I can only understand it to a point before it is beyond my finite brain to comprehend.

Well, another aspect of this is our salvation (which is the concern for these doctrines). Because we are so utterly corrupt by nature, election is the only hope of salvation. If he didn't elect some individuals in Christ, no one would be saved. His eternal decree includes his own personal working in the hearts and minds of fallen men to bring them to reconciliation to himself through Jesus. He ordained that Adam would plunge man to fall, then progressively work out history to prepare for the arrival of his Son, who then would die on earth for the sinners that he already personally knew beforehand (foreknow), such as you and me, that after you were born he would draw you to hear the gospel by a particular minister, that his Spirit would operate in your heart and mind to understand, desire, and believe the gospel, that you would be justified by faith, that he would indwell in you by sealing you and sanctifying you to be conformed to the image of Jesus, that he would continue to keep you persevering in faith until you die, resurrect, and are glorified with the saints.

Your whole salvation was predestined to occur, everything that brought you to faith and that keeps you going in faith is God working in you, because you were already foreknown (not just foreseen). He loved you before you were even born, before the world was founded, before Adam was created, you were already in his heart and mind, you were destined to be with him in his kingdom forever. It was an eternal love set on you in Christ, and he predestined all the means and the work to bring you to himself out of the effects of the fall. Even though you consciously made the choice to come to Christ, it was God who brought you to faith by his saving grace.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guaranteed of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." - Ephesians 1:3-14

God saw nothing about you, in you, or from you for why he chose you. You were a child of wrath like the rest of mankind. God's pure grace and mercy is the reason he saved you and chose you. You have nothing to boast about, because God saw nothing in you for why he decided to work salvation in you for his glory. He simply did it because he wanted to.

"What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.' So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

"You will say to me then, 'Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?' But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" - Romans 9:14-24

David Cabrera said:

Well, I always heard the Old Testament should be looked through Christ (maybe that's why there are non-Trinitarians) but I will check.

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I agree, Christ is the scope of Scripture. But, did the Old Testament saints understand it (theosis) as well?

devin553344 said:

Why not just create heaven and perfect people to fill it? And create no evil thing? I don't understand.

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define perfect

martymonster said:

This present evil age, is just the scaffolding for this particular phase of God's work. This idea is that God is going to burn sinners in hell for all eternity, is a church doctrine, it's not scriptural.

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Nah it is scriptural, even Jesus talks about it. Or else, what would He be saving us from?

Basil the Great said:

I do not believe that we can prove that God is omnipotent, anymore than we can prove His existence. Yes, I know that some ponder if perhaps God is not omnipotent. Rabbi Kushner did so in his famous book, When Bad Things Happen to Good People. However, it seems to me that any God who created this Universe and who has sustained it for apparently millions/billions of years, must be omnipotent.

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Do you have the holy Spirit? Do you believe in God?

devin553344 said:

Yeah but to create the galaxy one only needs to create an explosive weapon powerful enough that it would create a galaxy.

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The radial motion of an explosion cannot give rise to the tangential motion of orbits. I think most people grossly underestimate the delicate balance of a celestial orbit.

devin553344 said:

I've noticed that God didn't create perfection and we are proof of that. If he were omnipotent wouldn't we all be perfect?

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I think of it like a song. The purest, perfect sound is a tuning fork. Yet, symphonies are not composed entirely of tuning forks. Any instrument, from a flute to an electric guitar has some level of noise mixed in with the pure tone. They are not used in spite of their tonal imperfections, but because of them. Even despite its "impurities," the tone can be correctly or incorrectly tuned. They can all be correctly or incorrectly played.

The devil and his minions are only overtones in this symphony of God's history. We trust in him to guide us through this song to its proper resolution.

Jenniferdiana said:

Do you have the holy Spirit? Do you believe in God?

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Of course I believe in God. All I said is that we cannot prove God's existence. It is a matter of faith.

salt-n-light said:

Nah it is scriptural, even Jesus talks about it. Or else, what would He be saving us from?

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He came to save us from death, and here's what death is.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Basil the Great said:

Of course I believe in God. All I said is that we cannot prove God's existence. It is a matter of faith.

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you are kidding, right? child, you must be confused...I don't think you believe in God. And I most definitely don't think you have the holy Spirit. Cause if you did, you'd know the truth, you can not say you believe in God and have the holy spirit then say you can't prove he exist cause if ANYTHING the holy Spirit guides us into all truth, he reveals all things to us including God. Jesus said no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born again. And I don't think you are cause like I said if you were you would know the truth by being in the holy spirit. Are you confused? Do you know what the holy spirit is? Do any of you know what the holy spirit is? Who are you people? Where do y'all get all this stuff? If you believe in God you must have the holy spirit too? Do you, or do you not? Cause the holy spirit is real and is a testimony of God. It's testimony of God's existence. It proves that God is true, God is real and since God is spirit, the holy spirit is of him and comes from him, where do you think it came from? And why does God give us the holy spirit? If we who call ourselves children of God we would know the truth and we would have that testimony , the holy spirit in us proving God does exist and that we are really children of God. And I know no one will ever see the truth about anything, especially the things of God unless they are born again with the kingdom of God entering through them as they become one with the holy spirit...when we enter the kingdom of God it means he is putting the truth in us also...and God does exist cause the holy spirit is there to confirm he does exist...like I said if you really do have the holy spirit, you would know, you would see the truth...

devin553344 said:

I've started to realize that God may not be fully omnipotent. For instance he doesn't make the world a perfect place, but heaven he does? He doesn't answer all prayers? So is he omnipotent?

Can you prove that He is omnipotent?

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God is omnipotent in his dimension, but since he gave this dimension to Adam and descendents, his operation "here" is limited by "our" faith or trust in him.

I cannot prove he's omnipotent, my faith isn't of the right quality, though at times I've experienced something similar to omnipresence. But if you can prove it, what need is there for trust or faith?

Jenniferdiana said:

you are kidding, right? child, you must be confused...I don't think you believe in God. And I most definitely don't think you have the holy Spirit. Cause if you did, you'd know the truth, you can not say you believe in God and have the holy spirit then say you can't prove he exist cause if ANYTHING the holy Spirit guides us into all truth, he reveals all things to us including God. Jesus said no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born again. And I don't think you are cause like I said if you were you would know the truth by being in the holy spirit. Are you confused? Do you know what the holy spirit is? Do any of you know what the holy spirit is? Who are you people? Where do y'all get all this stuff? If you believe in God you must have the holy spirit too? Do you, or do you not? Cause the holy spirit is real and is a testimony of God. It's testimony of God's existence. It proves that God is true, God is real and since God is spirit, the holy spirit is of him and comes from him, where do you think it came from? And why does God give us the holy spirit? If we who call ourselves children of God we would know the truth and we would have that testimony , the holy spirit in us proving God does exist and that we are really children of God. And I know no one will ever see the truth about anything, especially the things of God unless they are born again with the kingdom of God entering through them as they become one with the holy spirit...when we enter the kingdom of God it means he is putting the truth in us also...and God does exist cause the holy spirit is there to confirm he does exist...like I said if you really do have the holy spirit, you would know, you would see the truth...

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Yes, the Spirit assures us that God is real. However, I am referring to attempts to prove God to unbelievers. There are many proofs of God's existence, but the ultimate proof has to come within someone's heart and soul. Finally, when all is said and done, it all comes down to faith. One can choose to believe or not believe. God does not force us. We have free will.

devin553344 said:

I've started to realize that God may not be fully omnipotent. For instance he doesn't make the world a perfect place, but heaven he does? He doesn't answer all prayers? So is he omnipotent?

Can you prove that He is omnipotent?

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All faith is in vain if God is not omnipotent. Faith believes he is, doubt doubts that he is.

devin553344 said:

I've started to realize that God may not be fully omnipotent. For instance he doesn't make the world a perfect place, but heaven he does? He doesn't answer all prayers? So is he omnipotent?

Can you prove that He is omnipotent?

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The world is never going to be a perfect place.... it's full of sinners with free will.
Heaven is a place where only righteous beings live... and.. God is there. There is no sin there. How can earth be like that?
God does answer all prayers..... sometimes the answer is "NO".

Finally, none of this is has any bearing on God's Omnipotence.

martymonster said:

He came to save us from death, and here's what death is.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

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That's talking about spiritual death, not physical. He came to save us from spiritual death. But we have to die physically to be present with the Lord ( 2 Corinthians 5)

Death like Hell is not a concept, the same writer said that it is appointed once to die, then comes the judgment, that is the fate of all mankind (Hebrews 9:27)

Scriptures also tells us not to fear the one that only kill the body, but God who can destroy both body and soul in Hell (Matthew 10:28)

Why would we be told to fear something that doesn't exist? Or to take heed if there's no need to. It wouldn't make sense.

devin553344 said:

Thanks Ted, I've noticed that God didn't create perfection and we are proof of that.

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I strongly disagree with your statement. It appears to show a high degree of pride in your own opinions while making excuses for being the person you really want to be (self-serving).

The first step in becoming the person GOD created us to be is to accept HIS SPIRIT (seek GOD's Purposes). To not do so is blasphemy of the Spirit because seeking our part in GOD's Purpose is the first step of all spiritual growth. If we don't begin any journey, we will never reach the end of that journey. Believing GOD is unable to perfect you if you focus on HIS Purpose rather than your own, is one way we blaspheme the Spirit.

Consider that the self-serving nature is automatically divisive and has no eternal purpose. To rid ourselves of that nature, our focus must be on a purpose outside ourselves. The only Purpose we should consider is the only one that is eternal.

yes, the LORD is omnipotent in that he can do whatever He wishes to do without fail.