Has God really made no promises to believers and their offspring?

ExTiff · Feb 20, 2019

According to St Paul's reasoning, our Salvation as believers in the promises of God, channelled by Christ, through the Holy Spirit to us, through faith in the atonement for sins, won for us by Jesus Christ, by his death on a cross, is undoubtedly totally dependent on believing that God keeps His promises. Tit.1:2; James 2:5.

In other words, if God did not graciously accept the offering of Christ, we have nothing in which to believe, and therefore no salvation. Also if God does not unfailingly keep His promises, found in scripture, we would have no reason to trust God for our salvation. Rom.4:16-21.

Furthermore St Paul reasoned that, if Jesus Christ had not risen from death, then we would be sadly deluding ourselves to imagine that we, by faith, may gain eternal life. For again, we would have no basis for our belief. 1 Cor.15:13-14.

The resurrection of Christ therefore is our, guarantee in scripture, that God graciously accepted Christ's 'Sacrifice' of himself, and was clearly confirmation of a promise to Christ by God. Luke 24:49.

It is clear then that 'Salvation' through the power of the Holy Spirit, is the promise to us believers, of a justified and sanctified eternal life, and that this promise was promised to Christ, through whom it comes to us, from God.

Thus far it all makes perfectly logical sense, I think all believers agree.

But they don't. And there is the problem I want to discuss in this thread.

Some eminent theologians and Bible translators are convinced that The promise to Abraham and his seed, was not to the seed of Abraham, those of faith, meaning all those who believe in God's promises, but rather only to God's SEED who was indeed Christ Himself.

They base this notion that the seed of Abraham were never promised anything regarding 'Salvation' on a single verse of scripture.

"Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ." Gal.3:16 NKJV

Quite literally, word by word, in this verse and the one following St Paul says this:

"and to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed; He doth not say, `And to seeds,' as of many, but as of one, `And to thy seed,' which is Christ; and this I say, A covenant confirmed before by God to Christ, the law, that came four hundred and thirty years after, doth not set aside, to make void the promise." Youngs Lit Translation.

Meaning, (a covenant, a promise), had been previously made to Christ by God, 430 years before the Law had been given to Moses. The Law cannot cancel a covenant promise already made 430 years previously.

But this promise was not only made to Christ 430 years previously. It was made by God to Abraham 430 years previously but it was made by God to Christ a lot longer ago than that. Luke 24:49; Eph.1:4; 1 Pet.1:20; John 17:24.

Now this, misunderstanding of the meaning of Gal.3:16 may not seem to have serious consequences for those who believe their interpretation of Paul's words to be 'the whole and undiluted truth of the matter', but their interpretation in fact has serious consequences on the way we believers view God's promises in both the Old and New testaments.

Their contention is that infants are no longer included in the church of Christ by virtue of God's promise to their believing parent(s). The infant must first grow up and develop the mental capacity to comprehend the gospel, repent of their sins and 'believe'.

The logic of their argument for tearing the infants of believers out of the church and abandoning them, declaring them 'incapable of having faith' and therefore incapable of 'being saved', until adulthood or at least adolescence, is that God has never made any promises to the believing parents of any infants. God, according to them only ever made promises to Christ, THE SEED of Abraham.

My question for them therefore is as follows:

Has God made promises to us believers and our offspring, (of conditional salvation for our infants) as well as assured salvation for those who are able to believe God's promise to them, which He unfailingly will keep? Gen.17:7; Deut.30:6; Luke 24:49; 2 Cor.3:6; Heb.9:15; Heb.13:20; Isa.54:1-17; Ps.25:14;

OR

Has God made the promise of salvation only and exclusively to Christ and to his offspring? Gal.3:16. having cancelled all 'eternal' promises apparently made to the offspring of Abraham, even those 'circumcised of heart' and of the 'household of faith', who according to St Paul are ourselves?
.

joinfree · Feb 20, 2019

Christ was not married, thus He has no kids.

Jonaitis · Feb 20, 2019

I wouldn't take that particular approach to disprove infant membership to the covenant community, but I would affirm that children of believers do not participate in any way with their parents in the covenant promises. Otherwise, they would have justification and eternal life, regeneration and the sealing of the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption, etc etc.

Here is my question for you, if you believe in infant membership to the covenant promises:

How many generations does it go? You only mentioned the children of believers, but what if those covenant children have children? Are they in the covenant too? How many generations can this cycle go unbroken?

ExTiff · Feb 20, 2019

joinfree said:
Christ was not married, thus He has no kids.

I suppose it could be argued though that we 'believers' are children of God, and Christ is God so we would be his offsping. Maybe? We are speaking spiritually of course. Eveything is spiritual under the New Covenant.

joinfree · Feb 20, 2019

ExTiff said:
I suppose it could be argued though that we 'believers' are children of God, and Christ is God so we would be his offsping. Maybe? We are speaking spiritually of course. Eveything is spiritual under the New Covenant.

The Jews, who will convert into Christianity in last days will be saved from hell.

ExTiff · Feb 20, 2019

Jonaitis said:
I wouldn't take that particular approach to disprove infant membership to the covenant community, but I would affirm that children of believers do not participate in any way with their parents in the covenant promises. Otherwise, they would have justification and eternal life, regeneration and the sealing of the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption, etc etc.

Here is my question for you, if you believe in infant membership to the covenant promises:

How many generations does it go? You only mentioned the children of believers, but what if those covenant children have children? Are they in the covenant too? How many generations can this cycle go unbroken?

Generations unlimited, Deut.7:9 (of those that love God), unlimited. But only those individuals in those generations who themselves love God and keep his commandment, (which under the New Covenant is just believe totally in Jesus Christ and do his words to us sinners) i.e love our neighbour as we love ourselves thus proving our love for God. That is what essentially 'believing' is all about. 1 John 4:20.

God still visits the iniquity of sinners unto the third and fourth generation of those that hate Him. Ex.20:5; Deut.5:9.

Infants are 'justified' but not yet 'sancified' neither are they fully 'regenerate' until they take their covenant responsibilities upon themselves by being 'circumcised of heart' which God will perform for them at whatever time they ask of Him. Luke 11:11-13. Remember the children of believers are already children of God, not 'unclean', but Holy. 1 Cor.7:14.
.

Gregory Thompson · Feb 20, 2019

We're born again into the faith, not just born into the faith.

Galatians is a good letter to read regarding "the seed" and faith.

ExTiff · Feb 20, 2019

Michael Collum said:
We're born again into the faith, not just born into the faith.

Galatians is a good letter to read regarding "the seed" and faith.

If you understand it, yes. If you don't, no. That is what the thread question is supposed to be exploring.
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Gregory Thompson · Feb 20, 2019

ExTiff said:
If you understand it, yes.
.

Then there's a matter of soul and spirit being different things. What exactly is being saved?

ExTiff · Feb 20, 2019

Michael Collum said:
Then there's a matter of soul and spirit being different things. What exactly is being saved?

Being saved is what is happening to us whenever we are within the will of God. While we remain faithful to Christ and his teaching we are 'being saved', because we are His disciples. If we are not true to Christ and his teaching then we are not 'being saved' and will be rebuked by Him when we finally meet our redeemer, who has 'redeemed' or 'paid for' both us and our offspring, (if we are believers), which do not belong to us but to Him, Ezek.16:21, He having paid the price for them too. 1 Cor.6:20; 1 Cor.7:23; Exodus 21:3-5. Essentially it is our spirit which is in need of salvation. No one can blame their body for the sin it commits. Our body necessarliy should be obedient to our spirit, not the other way about.
.

1213 · Feb 20, 2019

ExTiff said:
...
Some eminent theologians and Bible translators are convinced that The promise to Abraham and his seed, was not to the seed of Abraham, those of faith, meaning all those who believe in God's promises, but rather only to God's SEED who was indeed Christ Himself.

They base this notion that the seed of Abraham were never promised anything regarding 'Salvation' on a single verse of scripture.

"Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ." Gal.3:16 NKJV

Quite literally, word by word, in this verse and the one following St Paul says this:

"and to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed; He doth not say, `And to seeds,' as of many, but as of one, `And to thy seed,' which is Christ; and this I say, A covenant confirmed before by God to Christ, the law, that came four hundred and thirty years after, doth not set aside, to make void the promise." Youngs Lit Translation.

Meaning, (a covenant, a promise), had been previously made to Christ by God, 430 years before the Law had been given to Moses. The Law cannot cancel a covenant promise already made 430 years previously.

But this promise was not only made to Christ 430 years previously....

...Has God made promises to us believers and our offspring,...
.

I think it is good to look what the OT says. It says for example:

Your seed will be as the dust of the earth, and you will spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south. In you and in your seed will all the families of the earth be blessed.
Gen. 28:14

If Jesus is indeed seed of Abraham, then in Christ all “families of the earth will be blessed”. That is why there is promise for those who receive Jesus.

Gregory Thompson · Feb 20, 2019

ExTiff said:
Being saved is what is happening to us whenever we are within the will of God. While we remain faithful to Christ and his teaching we are 'being saved', because we are His disciples. If we are not true to Christ and his teaching then we are not 'being saved' and will be rebuked by Him when we finally meet our redeemer, who has 'redeemed' or 'paid for' both us and our offspring, (if we are believers), which do not belong to us but to Him, Ezek.16:21, He having paid the price for them too. 1 Cor.6:20; 1 Cor.7:23; Exodus 21:3-5. Essentially it is our spirit which is in need of salvation. No one can blame their body for the sin it commits. Our body necessarliy should be obedient to our spirit, not the other way about.
.

I tend to focus on the Born again, New Life, and Maturity parts of the message regarding this, clean the cup on the inside first, then the outside takes care of itself.

ExTiff · Feb 20, 2019

1213 said:
I think it is good to look what the OT says. It says for example:

Your seed will be as the dust of the earth, and you will spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south. In you and in your seed will all the families of the earth be blessed.
Gen. 28:14

If Jesus is indeed seed of Abraham, then in Christ all “families of the earth will be blessed”. That is why there is promise for those who receive Jesus.

It is always good to look at what the Old Testament says. Jesus used only the Old Testament to explain everything to anyone who wanted to know about God. The New Testament is a 'Supplement' to the scriptures Jesus knew. A valuable and inspired supplement, but still a supplement that Jesus never used.

That is why I find the argument that "Infant baptism is not found in the New Testament" unconvincing. Neither is women receiving communion found anywhere in the New Testament, but that is not a valid reason for forbidding them to recieve.

"Your seed will be as the dust of the earth, and you will spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south. In you and in your seed will all the families of the earth be blessed." Gen. 28:14.

The, (promisees were only given to Jesus), theology group would say that this 'promise' of Gen.28:14 was not 'spiritual' but only referred to temporal, material possessions and land. These, they would say 'are not the seed of Abraham, Christ alone was that SEED to whom the promise came. They then quote Gal.3:16 and conclude that all Old Testament promises of God to Israel, who they claim are the offspring of Abraham only by physical descent, do not inherit anything 'spiritual'. Thus they exclude all Israel from any promises that God made concerning salvation, unless they became 'saved by faith' after Peter's speech on the day of Pentecost.

To which I would pose the question: Why then did Jesus teach before His death, that "His hearers only had to ask, and they would receive the Holy Spirit". Luke 11:9-13. Was he lying to them? Or could He have been promising them a future possibility based on their 'faith' and not on works of the law, just as every generation since Abraham before them trusted that their promised Messiah would bring to them 'Salvation'? I think the latter must be true. Which means the promise was definitely spiritual. Not merely carnal as is believed by those who wish to put a clear demarcation between Old and New Testaments, with 'believers Saved' on this side of the day of Pentecost which followed the crucifixion, and 'Everone Unsaved' on the Old Testament side of it.

I think they are getting confused about what faith is, and misunderstand the teaching of St Paul concerning the fundamental essentials of faith in the promise, as opposed to the failure of obedience to the Law to ever deliver salvation.

The promise to Abraham was 'Spiritual and eternal' as well as 'Temporal and physical'. The promise included 'circumcision of the heart' for those who believed. Disobedience was equated to unbelief.

Furthermore, not all of those who were circumcised were offspring of Abraham. Sojourners, slaves and others were commanded by God to be circumcised if they too were to remain with God's people, as a matter of obedience, and ALL were required to be 'circumcised of heart', if they were to have 'salvation'. Physical circumcision was never more than evidence of obedience. The same as New Testament baptism, which replaced circumcision for the faithful of God, is merely evidence of obedience, not ever a means of obtaining salvation.

ExTiff · Feb 20, 2019

Michael Collum said:
I tend to focus on the Born again, New Life, and Maturity parts of the message regarding this, clean the cup on the inside first, then the outside takes care of itself.

But who does the cleaning though? We can't clean ourselves.
.

Gregory Thompson · Feb 20, 2019

ExTiff said:
But who does the cleaning though? We can't clean ourselves.
.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I find it's a working together with God thing.

ExTiff · Feb 20, 2019

Michael Collum said:
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I find it's a working together with God thing.

True, but cooperation with God through the mediation of the Holy spirit is more a matter of Sanctification rather than Justification, which is a juducial and undeservingly gracious act of God. Our sins are 'removed' only as far as God removed them. Fortunately for us believers that is as far as the East is from the West. If it had been from North to South then the distance, though considerable, could still be measured. Ps.103:12.

Gregory Thompson · Feb 20, 2019

ExTiff said:
True, but cooperation with God through the mediation of the Holy spirit is more a matter of Sanctification rather than Justification, which is a juducial and undeservingly gracious act of God. Our sins are 'removed' only as far as God removed them. Fortunately for us believers that is as far as the East is from the West. If it had been from North to South then the distance, though considerable, could still be measured. Ps.103:12.

I tend to see the beginning and the end of the matter one continuum like a seed and the fruit being one and the same and all one journey.

I think the connection between your perspective and mine is the soul and spirit and how they are affected in salvation redemption et al.

ralliann · Feb 21, 2019

ExTiff said:
It is always good to look at what the Old Testament says. Jesus used only the Old Testament to explain everything to anyone who wanted to know about God.

Jesus did not explain everything. There was plenty the Apostles did not understand until after they received the holy spirit and beyond.
Lu 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

ExTiff said:
The New Testament is a 'Supplement' to the scriptures Jesus knew. A valuable and inspired supplement, but still a supplement that Jesus never used.

The new testament is a new covenant. Far more than a supplement. It is an inheritance.

ExTiff said:
That is why I find the argument that "Infant baptism is not found in the New Testament" unconvincing. Neither is women receiving communion found anywhere in the New Testament, but that is not a valid reason for forbidding them to recieve.

"Your seed will be as the dust of the earth, and you will spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south. In you and in your seed will all the families of the earth be blessed." Gen. 28:14.

The, (promisees were only given to Jesus), theology group would say that this 'promise' of Gen.28:14 was not 'spiritual' but only referred to temporal, material possessions and land. These, they would say 'are not the seed of Abraham, Christ alone was that SEED to whom the promise came. They then quote Gal.3:16 and conclude that all Old Testament promises of God to Israel, who they claim are the offspring of Abraham only by physical descent, do not inherit anything 'spiritual'.

Galatians teaches …...
Two covenants of inheritance are given in the law.
Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

ExTiff said:
Thus they exclude all Israel from any promises that God made concerning salvation, unless they became 'saved by faith' after Peter's speech on the day of Pentecost.

Read the law.
What does the covenant in Genesis 15 say? It speaks concerning the fourth generation of his seed.
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Did you notice anything in the above quote? I excluded verse 15 to draw attention to whom this inheritance concerns....
But what does God say to Abraham? He tells him he will be dead...

15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
As acts 7 says....
Acts 7:2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.

Again the patriarchs knew this inheritance concerned the 4th generation of his seed...…

Joseph clearly knew....
Ge 50:25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
Ex 13:19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.

The covenant God made with Abraham in Genesis 17 concerned his one seed Isaac. And it also concerned an inheritance given after this world and this life. Therefore God tested Abrahams faith for the resurrection.
This is the eternal inheritance promised.
Isaac a type, an allegory (a figure).
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Ge 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Ge 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
An only son.....unlike the firstborn is sole heir of all that his fathers estate.
Ge 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Ge 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Ge 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son
Here is the oath in which God will never repent of.....

Ps 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

It may be helpful to know who are the anointed (Christ)
The Prophets, The high priests, The Kings.
Abraham Isaac Jacob were all prophets (christs)
Gal 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Therefore Isaac was a type, or for an allegory.
1Ch 16:16 Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
Ps 105:9 Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac
Isaac an only son inherits all his fathers possessions

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Gen 25:5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

We all enter into the eternal inheritance the same way. In Christ Jesus the only begotten (sole heir) son of God.

ExTiff · Feb 21, 2019

ralliann said:
Jesus did not explain everything. There was plenty the Apostles did not understand until after they received the holy spirit and beyond.
Lu 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The new testament is a new covenant. Far more than a supplement. It is an inheritance.

Galatians teaches …...
Two covenants of inheritance are given in the law.
Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Read the law.
What does the covenant in Genesis 15 say? It speaks concerning the fourth generation of his seed.
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Did you notice anything in the above quote? I excluded verse 15 to draw attention to whom this inheritance concerns....
But what does God say to Abraham? He tells him he will be dead...

15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
As acts 7 says....
Acts 7:2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.

Again the patriarchs knew this inheritance concerned the 4th generation of his seed...…

Joseph clearly knew....
Ge 50:25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
Ex 13:19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.

The covenant God made with Abraham in Genesis 17 concerned his one seed Isaac. And it also concerned an inheritance given after this world and this life. Therefore God tested Abrahams faith for the resurrection.
This is the eternal inheritance promised.
Isaac a type, an allegory (a figure).
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Ge 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Ge 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
An only son.....unlike the firstborn is sole heir of all that his fathers estate.
Ge 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Ge 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Ge 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son
Here is the oath in which God will never repent of.....

Ps 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

It may be helpful to know who are the anointed (Christ)
The Prophets, The high priests, The Kings.
Abraham Isaac Jacob were all prophets (christs)
Gal 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Therefore Isaac was a type, or for an allegory.
1Ch 16:16 Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
Ps 105:9 Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac
Isaac an only son inherits all his fathers possessions

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Gen 25:5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

We all enter into the eternal inheritance the same way. In Christ Jesus the only begotten (sole heir) son of God.

Jesus did not explain everything. There was plenty the Apostles did not understand until after they received the holy spirit and beyond.

I had not intended to imply that Jesus had explained everything. My intention was to state merely that everything Jesus taught was with reference to The Old Testament. The New Testament had not yet come into existence, when he spoke the words attributed to him in the Gospels. Obviously Jesus had an expectation that his words would be understood and acted upon by those who heard them at the time, otherwise why would he have bothered wasting breath. That is what makes me dubious of the claim of 'baptist style' theologians that the promise was to Christ alone. Luke 1:72; Luke 24:49; Their theology seems altogether too neat and too disqualifying of those of God's OT people who had placed their faith in their promised Messiah, just as do we 'believers', both Jew and Gentile. It is clear to me that the promise, was both to Christ, and to all those who by faith, trust in God's Messiah. Works of the law do not come into it as far as 'salvation' is concerned, in either the Old or New Covenants. The Law was merely a tutor in righteousness. Gal.3:24; Rom.2:17-21. Paul here is not criticizing faithful law keeping, he is criticizing hypocritical law keeping and the false imagining that salvation will result from such hypocrisy.

Salvation results from faith in the promised Messiah.

Tutor: Gal.3:24.
παιδαγωγός
STRONG’S NUMBER: g3807
Dictionary Definition g3807. παιδαγωγός paidagōgos; from 3816 and a reduplicated form of 71; a boy-leader, i.e. a servant whose office it was to take the children to school; (by implication, (figuratively) a tutor (“paedagogue”)): — instructor, schoolmaster.
AV (3) - schoolmaster 2, instructor 1;
a tutor i.e. a guardian and guide of boys. Among the Greeks and the Romans the name was applied to trustworthy slaves who were charged with the duty of supervising the life and morals of boys belonging to the better class. The boys were not allowed so much as to step out of the house without them before arriving...

So Paul was not limiting the extent or number of the persons of promise in the Old Testament dispensation at Gal.3:16, as 'baptist theologians' would have us believe. Paul was merely making the point that the promise is fulfilled only in Christ and only pertains to those of Abraham's seed or offspring as had the same quality of 'faith' in their promised Messiah, as did Abraham. (That was the gospel in the Old Testament), Christ THE SEED, the Messiah, the promise being ultimately the ONLY human being on earth of unquestionable faith in God. Even Abraham's faith was not entirely unquestionable. Gen.17:17.
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ralliann · Feb 21, 2019

ExTiff said:
I had not intended to imply that Jesus had explained everything. My intention was to state merely that everything Jesus taught was with reference to The Old Testament. The New Testament had not yet come into existence, when he spoke the words attributed to him in the Gospels. Obviously Jesus had an expectation that his words would be understood and acted upon by those who heard them at the time, otherwise why would he have bothered wasting breath. That is what makes me dubious of the claim of 'baptist style' theologians that the promise was to Christ alone. Luke 1:72; Luke 24:49; Their theology seems altogether too neat and too disqualifying of those of God's OT people who had placed their faith in their promised Messiah, just as do we 'believers', both Jew and Gentile. It is clear to me that the promise, was both to Christ, and to all those who by faith, trust in God's Messiah. Works of the law do not come into it as far as 'salvation' is concerned, in either the Old or New Covenants. The Law was merely a tutor in righteousness. Gal.3:24; Rom.2:17-21. Paul here is not criticizing faithful law keeping, he is criticizing hypocritical law keeping and the false imagining that salvation will result from such hypocrisy.

Salvation results from faith in the promised Messiah.

Tutor: Gal.3:24.
παιδαγωγός
STRONG’S NUMBER: g3807
Dictionary Definition g3807. παιδαγωγός paidagōgos; from 3816 and a reduplicated form of 71; a boy-leader, i.e. a servant whose office it was to take the children to school; (by implication, (figuratively) a tutor (“paedagogue”)): — instructor, schoolmaster.
AV (3) - schoolmaster 2, instructor 1;
a tutor i.e. a guardian and guide of boys. Among the Greeks and the Romans the name was applied to trustworthy slaves who were charged with the duty of supervising the life and morals of boys belonging to the better class. The boys were not allowed so much as to step out of the house without them before arriving...

So Paul was not limiting the extent or number of the persons of promise in the Old Testament dispensation at Gal.3:16, as 'baptist theologians' would have us believe. Paul was merely making the point that the promise is fulfilled only in Christ and only pertains to those of Abraham's seed or offspring as had the same quality of 'faith' in their promised Messiah, as did Abraham. (That was the gospel in the Old Testament), Christ THE SEED, the Messiah, the promise being ultimately the ONLY human being on earth of unquestionable faith in God. Even Abraham's faith was not entirely unquestionable. Gen.17:17.
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Concerning faith….
***Calling things which are not as though they are...

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

***Walking in the steps of faith as our father Abraham....

Ro 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Ro 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

We in Christ wait for the eternal inheritance of the next life. It is for both Jew and Gentile.

Has God really made *no promises* to believers *and* their offspring?

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Has God really made no promises to believers and their offspring?