Must we endure in the faith by continuously believing and repenting?

BCsenior said: ↑
As you know, Hebrews 10:26-27 only allows one sin,
but I don't even go there ... way too condemning!

Kenny'sID said:

I think that just means if we continue not in sin out of temptation or ignorance, but willful sin as a lifestyle, or as the norm in our lives, and without repentance, Christs sacrifice will no longer cover us.

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This passage reads as follows:


Since the sin that this verse refers to, specifically, is the willful and continual rejection of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, it seems to me that it cannot be referring to Christians. Rather, I believe it's speaking most directly to Jewish ~almost~ Christians, those who participated in the life of the 1st Century church, as well knew/understood and 'believed' (cf James 2:19) that Jesus is the Savior, but they still refused to come to 'saving' faith in Him for some reason.

For them (and for those who are like them today), there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

--David

BCsenior said:

Dual nature in the church?
Sorry, Kenny must be rubbin' off on me!

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You bet. Those of the Kingdom and those determined to keep the church worldly.

BCsenior said:

And the latter don't know they're doin' anything wrong.

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Tradition is born out of the blind leading the blind.

BCsenior said:

You're not out of order at all.
You just get stuff mixed up!
Try readin' more slowly.
Maybe upside down will help like it does Timmy.

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Why do you tell me I'm mixed up without telling me how? Are you not that sure of the accusation?

Mixed up how?

My minimal discernment abilities can easily see your attitude between the lines, so considering that, it's also a great possibility you have created a problem here that doesn't exist, the very reason you didn't comment on just what the problem is.

So, what is it?

St_Worm2 said:

Since the sin that this verse refers to, specifically, is the willful and continual rejection of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior

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I didn't see the part that made the actual sin clear, can you show me the verse, please? Thanks

BCsenior said:

Please go back and review our conversation.

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You claim I didn't get it the firs time I read it, so I ask you for clarification and now you send me back to do what didn't work the first time??

You're evading now, and that doesn't look good for you.

The question was simple, if you choose not to answer it, then just don't, that will tell me all I need to know. That, or simply make it clear, that is unless you don't think that will work for you.

Seriously? all this over my asking for one simple clarification of an accusation? Something isn't right.

BCsenior said:

So c'mon, go back and find out what it is.

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OK thanks just the same.

I think it's safe to say you were just being dishonest, and for whatever reason trying to hang something on me that wasn't true.

BCsenior said:

Hebrews 10:26 If we go on sinning willfully
after receiving the knowledge of the truth,

WOW! ... The first thing I see is that it applies to
BACS who are into habitual unrepentant sinning!
The churches are full of them!
Perhaps, the major reason is belief in eternal security.

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Hi BCsenior, Biblically, we know that the church was/is filled will posers, "tares" .. e.g. Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43, those who claim and may even believe themselves to be Christians (and who may even appear to be "super" Christians to themselves and others in the church), but who ~never~ knew Jesus, were never true Christians/born again from the get-go .. Matthew 7:22-23 (rather, they were sons/daughters of Satan .. Matthew 13:38b-39a).

Those who continually/willfully reject Christ (as well those who choose to continue to live in other kinds of willful sin/continue in the sinful lifestyle that they have always known) after receiving the knowledge of the truth about Him, never knew Him/were never saved by Him. Those who do know Him, true Christians (not CINO's ) .. John 17:3, are those who willfully choose to ~stop~ living in sin, are horrified by even the thought of sinning again (much less of remaining in it as a lifestyle), and repent/seek forgiveness for it whenever they do .. 1 John 1:8-2:2. As was once said:


First and foremost, true Christians (BAC's as you refer to them above) are those who, after receiving the knowledge of the truth about Him, receive Him as their Lord and their Savior .. not reject Him (as those who are discussed in v26 did ).

Secondly, the clearest/most profound evidence we have that someone who "claims" to be a Christian has actually become one (a true Christian/wheat), and not a poser (tare), is seen in how they choose to live their lives in regard to sin after making that claim (posers continue in/quickly return to living in sin, those who are born again .. those whose hearts have been quickened and have been given a new spirit by God, who are now indwelt by the Holy Spirit and have been caused to be born again, who have been justified & saved by God graciously through faith, and have been made His workmanship & wholly new creatures in Christ (Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; 2 Corinthians 5:17, 21, Ephesians 2:1-5, 8-10) .. do not (continue in their former, sinful ways/sinful "lifestyles"), rather, they seek forgiveness and repent whenever they do fall prey to their temptations and sin.

So again, those spoken of in Hebrews 10:26-27, were never true Christians (BAC's), even if they claimed and believed themselves to be. The demons believe that Jesus is both God and Savior, and they shudder because they do .. James 2:19 but, nevertheless, their "kind" of faith does not result in them becoming Christians.

--David

St_Worm2 said:

And the clearest/most profound evidence that we have that someone who "claims" to be a Christian has actually become one (a true Christian/wheat), and not a poser (tare), is seen in how they choose to live their lives in regard to sin after making that claim (posers continue in/quickly return to living in sin, those who are born again .. those whose hearts have been quickened and have been given a new spirit by God, who are now indwelt by the Holy Spirit and have been caused to be born again, who have been justified & saved by God graciously through faith, and have been made His workmanship & thereby into wholly new creatures in Christ (Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; 2 Corinthians 5:17, 21, Ephesians 2:1-5, 8-10) .. do not (continue in their former, sinful ways/sinful "lifestyles"), rather (again), they seek forgiveness and repent whenever they do.

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How come so few then promote Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom in favour of another?

timothyu said:

How come so few then promote Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom in favour of another?

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If someone who claims to have become a Christian/claims to be born again, never chooses to act like a Christian, then it's a sure bet that they never became a Christian to begin with (no matter what they claim or think they believe). The road to life is a narrow one, is it not, and few are the number who find it (out of all of those who are searching for it).

You mentioned the Gospel of the Kingdom and another Gospel (St. Paul mentions another gospel as well when speaking to the Galatians and St. Peter). Since you speak of this in so many of your posts here, perhaps you would be willing to tell us 1. what the other Gospel you refer to is, and 2. what 'you' believe the Gospel of the Kingdom is .. as well where/how you believe these two "Gospels" differ from one another?

Thanks!

--David

St_Worm2 said:

You mentioned the Gospel of the Kingdom and another Gospel (St. Paul does so as well when speaking to the Galatians and St. Peter). Since you speak of this in so many of your posts here, perhaps you would be willing to tell us 1. what the other Gospel you refer to is, and 2. what 'you' believe the Gospel of the Kingdom is .. as well where/how you believe these two "Gospels" differ from one another?

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Short and simple.. The Gospel of the Kingdom which is contrary to the will of man is rarely used (and yes Paul taught it also) but instead another lesser gospel that allows man to continue in it's ways. The Gospel of the Kingdom is a complete Gospel while the other one only focuses on a part of the whole, the Messenger while ignoring His message that convicts the will of man (thus the world man has made). Especially useful to the politically minded or those creating their own kingdoms within the world of man.

Yikes, this thread sounds like faith is a work we must continually stir and summon, instead of it being a free gift of God's grace working in us continually.

Jonaitis said:

Yikes, this thread sounds like faith is a work we must continually stir and summon, instead of it being a free gift of God's grace working in us continually.

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Is not faith in the choice we make between the will of man or the will of God? God's grace gave us salvation by way of the Kingdom. It is still up to us to accept it and it's ways or remain loyal to the world built upon the will of man. If we have faith in the Kingdom as a better way, no matter how often we stumble, we work our way towards the Kingdom (never mind faith it is even there) having faith that it's ways are the better ways, not back towards the world of mankind. But not even the church is free of those who would have us fall back.

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

timothyu said:

How come so few then promote Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom in favour of another?

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Another what exactly?

timothyu said:

Short and simple.. The Gospel of the Kingdom which is contrary to the will of man is rarely used (and yes Paul taught it also) but instead another lesser gospel that allows man to continue in it's ways. The Gospel of the Kingdom is a complete Gospel while the other one only focuses on a part of the whole, the Messenger while ignoring His message that convicts the will of man (thus the world man has made). Especially useful to the politically minded or those creating their own kingdoms within the world of man.

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Which Gospel is incomplete?