Relationship of shame and pride

Brotherly Spirit

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Yesterday evening to last night I was checking a new site shared with me. I found a topic near to what I been having in mind. It's about the relationship of shame and pride concerning immorality and the it's defense (also discusses guilt and humility too).

Here's the link:
Shame and Pride and there relation to immoral behaviour and its defence

My understanding of what was discussed there is the following: If a person feels shame or guilt, he or she is less likely to do what causes it; humility. If not ashamed, a person is more likely to do whatever; pride. Also the "do" isn't only or limited to starting, but the continuation of "doing" (even periodically).

In Genesis Adam and Eve were unashamed being unclothed before God, blameless (innocent). After disobeying the Lord, listening to the Serpent (Satan) being tempted and eating from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil; they were ashamed ashamed then clothed before the Lord, sinful (guilty).

Two points I got from it are:
  • Either you trust the Lord's word living His way or Satan's word dying his way (the Tree of Life or death). Romans 5:5, Romans 5:8, Romans 5:13
  • Jesus isn't a sacrifice to cover our sins (periodic sacrifice), but mercy covering our death. He paid the cost for our sins, giving His life for us and in Him were dead in the flesh, but alive in the spirit. 1 Peter 3:15, 1 Peter 3:18
 

bèlla

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My understanding of what was discussed there is the following: If a person feels shame or guilt, he or she is less likely to do what causes it; humility. If not ashamed, a person is more likely to do whatever; pride. Also the "do" isn't only or limited to starting, but the continuation of "doing" (even periodically).

I have never lived with a spirit of shame or guilt. There are things I have no desire to do and others I've had to reconcile as improper through the Holy Spirit's assistance. But at no point was shame or guilt part of the process. He removed the desire for its engagement.
 
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Brotherly Spirit

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I have never lived with a spirit of shame or guilt. There are things I have no desire to do and others I've had to reconcile as improper through the Holy Spirit's assistance. But at no point was shame or guilt part of the process. He removed the desire for its engagement.

I think it can work like that. But if I am busy with loving people, this helps to keep me from sinning.
As a sinner I came to the Lord needing to change, not having the guidance of the spirit it was shame and guilt that helped me know if I did something wrong. I continue to get both if I don't listen to what I know God has said about it. My experience has been when I lack or neglect to be thoughtful and loving, then as a last resort shame and guilt are caused being convicted by the spirit. At that point it's a reminder to seek the Lord as said in the Holy Spirit.

And you couldn't find that in the Bible?

Yes, but I never thought about it specially this way. In the Bible there's much to know and understand. It's helpful to seek God's word from different perspectives in fellowship. Even similar views aren't the same, combined you're able to weed through for a clearer view.
 
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bèlla

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As a sinner I came to the Lord needing to change, not having the guidance of the spirit it was shame and guilt that helped me know if I did something wrong. I continue to get both if I don't listen to what I know God has said about it. My experience has been when I lack or neglect to be thoughtful and loving, then as a last resort shame and guilt are caused being convicted by the spirit. At that point it's a reminder to seek the Lord as said in the Holy Spirit.

Thank you for explaining. In my case the constant is love. Both in the wooing and what I've experienced since then with Him. My correction arrives in three guises: warning; warning with the spiritual consequences; warning with a greater discourse about the root of the behavior I'm contemplating/engaging.
 
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com7fy8

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As a sinner I came to the Lord needing to change, not having the guidance of the spirit it was shame and guilt that helped me know if I did something wrong.
And still there are negative things which can tell me that I am not living in God's love, and I need right away to seek God for correction and restoration.

But a while ago I was swimming in anxiety and did not have a clue it had to do with me not being with God. And I was in denial that there might be something wrong with me so I could miss Heaven; so ones could not tell me I needed to get right with God. I needed for God to calm and sober me, I would say, so I could think out and realize I needed to trust in Jesus to save me.

As a sinner I came to the Lord needing to change, not having the guidance of the spirit it was shame and guilt that helped me know if I did something wrong. I continue to get both if I don't listen to what I know God has said about it. My experience has been when I lack or neglect to be thoughtful and loving, then as a last resort shame and guilt are caused being convicted by the spirit.
Yes, there can be pain things which tell us we are going the wrong way, but we need the Holy Spirit to have us see this and also submit to how God is able to change us to do better.

Hebrews 12:4-11 says, in my opinion, how we all need to actively seek our Father for His correction of our character. So, even while we are not aware of any correction need issues, pray for however He will change us more in His love . . . so we are more like Jesus > 1 John 4:17-18.

In my case the constant is love.
In His love we get His guidance of what is good to do, and how to be while we do it :) The shaming and the beatings we might get can't do this. Plus, if I have already experienced how I can be at home with God and my brothers and sisters, then when I get the wrong way I can get homesick, knowing how better it is with Jesus.
 
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Brotherly Spirit

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In His love we get His guidance of what is good to do, and how to be while we do it :) The shaming and the beatings we might get can't do this. Plus, if I have already experienced how I can be at home with God and my brothers and sisters, then when I get the wrong way I can get homesick, knowing how better it is with Jesus.

I believe this is the difference of being under the law and in the spirit. Knowing sin causes us to judge it and often we're condemned along with it. While knowing righteousness we have the opposite of sin in mind, so we judge by what's good; though we fall short it's the spirit which convicts us. And this conviction is how we fall short of the spirit's fruitfulness, "I wasn't very loving to them." or "I haven't been feeling joyful." Instead of judging yourself with hatred and sadness, having love and joy in mind you're remembering what each means and by comparison it's merciful and hopeful.
 
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