FAKE NEWS; FAKE EMERGENCY; FAKE WALL?

OldWiseGuy

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Don't know if they were representative of 95% or 85%, but the immigrants I knew (about 15), all worked and the neighborhoods they lived in were empty during working hours, with most everyone gone to work.

I had many Latino tenants over the years. All were good, hardworking people. However few cared to learn English so most of our communication was done through their kids.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Let's look--

sept.jpg


Hmmm....Not seeing that "rush to cross" ...here's 2018:
Southwest Border Migration FY2018 | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

As you can see the typical pattern continued in '18, nothing unusual.

You can't ignore the 2017 anomaly.
 
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Halbhh

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I had many Latino tenants over the years. All were good, hardworking people. However few cared to learn English so most of our communication was done through their kids.
The ones I knew learned English variously, some more some less.

Isn't that just like other 1rst generation immigrant groups -- some ok at English, some poor, some very few words -- but their children become fluent like you or me.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The ones I knew learned English variously, some more some less.

Isn't that just like other 1rst generation immigrant groups -- some ok at English, some poor, some very few words -- but their children become fluent like you or me.

Much easier for kids. Adults struggle, especially Spanish to English.
 
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Ringo84

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You can't ignore the 2017 anomaly.

Yeah...an "anomaly" of going from more than 70K to a low of less than 20K, and then rebounding to a hair over 30K. That's fewer apprehensions than 2016 and the lowest trendline of all the years on the graph.
Ringo
 
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Halbhh

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You can't ignore the 2017 anomaly.
I did notice noticed that in Oct 17 and Oct 18, roughly 65,000 vs a level more like 35,000-45,000 in previous years.
Though that increase over average was in the Fall, followed by below average rest of year 2017. Is that the anomaly you mean? 2018 looks generally average on the whole (use link in post).
 
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Halbhh

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Yeah...an "anomaly" of going from more than 70K to a low of less than 20K, and then rebounding to a hair over 30K. That's fewer apprehensions than 2016 and the lowest trendline of all the years on the graph.
Ringo
Right.

But he probably means that surge and fall off, more in Oct, less in May, etc., Looks different than other years.
 
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Michael

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I have to disagree about the cosmetic, just-for-show, items that were included in some of these bills. Both the Border Patrol and the Department of Homeland Security said that such aids would not succeed in the absence of a physical barrier working in tandem with them. Indeed, it is rather obvious that such would be the outcome.

What makes you so sure that a physical barrier is necessarily going to stop illegal immigration?

Steel prototype for border wall cut through with saw, photo shows

They also tend to dig under the walls down in San Diego.

At best a wall might slow them down, but if they're intent on coming into the US illegally, a wall won't necessarily stop them.

Again however, most illegal aliens came here legally, they simply overstayed their visas, and most drugs come through existing ports of entry. It makes more sense IMO to focus our financial efforts on those issues rather than new walls.

I'm not *adverse* to spending *some* money one new walls, but 55 miles of new walls seems like *plenty* to me. It will take quite awhile to build and install 55 miles of new fencing anyway, so for a single year budget, the current budget seem highly appropriate to me.

The whole "emergency" claim seems like nothing more than a blatant attempt to circumvent the constitution which explicitly gives funding power to the legislative branch, not the executive branch, and it looks to be an attempt to appeal to his base.

If as he promised that Mexico would really pay for his wall, and/or he hadn't just given himself a 15 million dollar a year tax break, I might be more supportive of Trump's wall concept. As it stands, he certainly isn't willing to pay for it out of his pocket or his taxes, and all we're doing is putting the cost of the wall on top of the US debt, a debt that already exceeds 22 trillion dollars thanks in part to Trumps new tax breaks for the rich.

Even *if* his trade deal replacement for NAFTA results in some new funds from Mexico, it won't even pay for the interest on the new debt associated with 8 billion he's trying to spend now. He never really believed that Mexico would pay for his wall, and he's already got funding to work on adding more walls over the next year without trying to declare a national emergency. The courts will block it anyway, so it's really just political theater.
 
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Albion

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What makes you so sure that a physical barrier is necessarily going to stop illegal immigration?
I don't think anyone has argued that it is absolutely going to stop illegal immigration, but it will prevent a lot of it, which is a sufficient justification for the project.

And I believe it because 1) it is obvious that having an open field is easier for illegals to cross than a wall, even if the wall is not foolproof, 2) any improvement is better than none, just as we would say if we were reducing, but not totally eliminating, auto crashes, carbon emissions into the atmosphere, or wildfires, and 3) because that is what the experts in the field, the people who work with it every day, have to say about the matter.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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Over sixty million residents of the USA are foreign-born. We take in more immigrants than any other country on Earth as it is.

Approximately half the world would like to come to the USA to live, and thousands actually do it each day, so with each illegal costing us tens of thousands of dollars, why wouldn't illegal immigration constitute an emergency?
Because emergencies don't typically last for 40-50 years before someone notices there's a problem and something should be done about it.

Emergencies typically imply that something is urgent and needs immediate attention. Trump only started calling this an "emergency" once he realized he was not getting his wall through the normal channels of appropriation.
 
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Michael

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I don't think anyone has argued that it is absolutely going to stop illegal immigration, but it will prevent a lot of it, which is a sufficient justification for the project.

And I believe it because 1) it is obvious that having an open field is easier for illegals to cross than a wall, even if the wall is not foolproof, 2) any improvement is better than none, just as we would say if we were reducing, but not totally eliminating, auto crashes, carbon emissions into the atmosphere, or wildfires, and 3) because that is what the experts in the field, the people who work with it every day, have to say about the matter.

The thing is, the bill he just signed includes funding for 55 miles of fencing. How long do you think it will take to built 55 miles of walls?
 
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Michael

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Congress. Useless and slow. Mired in politics.

We need an executive with the guts to brush congress aside and do whats right for America. We have found that man!

Ah, so any dictator will do, and we should just throw out the constitution?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I did notice noticed that in Oct 17 and Oct 18, roughly 65,000 vs a level more like 35,000-45,000 in previous years.
Though that increase over average was in the Fall, followed by below average rest of year 2017. Is that the anomaly you mean? 2018 looks generally average on the whole (use link in post).

The anomaly in 2017 was clearly caused by Trump's election and the fear that the 'wall' would prevent entry. Note that in January 2017, Trump's inauguration, all other years were trending upward while Jan 2017 was taking a dive, that didn't recover for several months, when the would-be immigrants realized the 'wall' wasn't coming anytime soon.

I also noticed that the 'end' lines don't line up, leaving big differences in the numbers of apprehensions.
 
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