FAKE NEWS; FAKE EMERGENCY; FAKE WALL?

Albion

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In this case however is more of a matter of how and where we spend money. Every bill has included an increase in funding for border security.

Not a single bill submitted to the President did "nothing at all about the border security problem". They all included additional funding for border security. He just want's *more* funding for a wall that won't resolve the vast majority of the problem. It's not the best way to spend the money.
I have to disagree about the cosmetic, just-for-show, items that were included in some of these bills. Both the Border Patrol and the Department of Homeland Security said that such aids would not succeed in the absence of a physical barrier working in tandem with them. Indeed, it is rather obvious that such would be the outcome.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Everyone flaunts their heritage....singling out Trump voters that do it is showing what your intent for this statement is all about.

I'm Norwegian/Dutch/German but I seldom think about that...and I speak American English, cherish our culture and history, not that of Norway, Holland or Germany. Many Latino immigrants have no interest in our language, culture, or history. Most European and Asian immigrants are educated (or are getting one here) and are already fluent in English.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Yep and yep.

There is no emergency at the border. Apprehensions have been steadily dropping...since 2000:
There Is No Border Crisis

The "bound and gagged women" line is a lie:
Trump’s tales about gagged women are misleading Americans about human trafficking, experts say | The Star

Crime was already dropping in El Paso before their wall/gate:
No, border barrier did not bring down crime in El Paso

Even border agents don't want the wall:
Retiring Border Chief Calls Trump's Wall a Waste of Time, Money

and

What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

The American people don't want the wall:
Trump Keeps Doubling Down On The Same Failed Strategy

There is no "crisis", and there is no need for a wall.
Ringo

Depends on how you look at it.

Only one-third of illegals enter by crossing the unprotected border...no problem.

or

Fully one-third of illegals enter by crossing the unprotected border...big problem.

So of the 12 million or so of illegals here only four million crossed the border illegally. Problem/no problem?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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It's the opposite -- they give more than they get.

But...even if that were not so, I'll still not risk the "second death" by refusing to welcome one of my brothers or sisters from another land.

You do realize that billions of our "brothers and sisters" want to come here...and by any means. You might want to do a study on land possession in biblical history and prophecy.
 
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Halbhh

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You do realize that billions of our "brothers and sisters" want to come here...and by any means. You might want to do a study on land possession in biblical history and prophecy.

What are you envisioning? I'm envisioning more of what I've known all my life -- the same continuing, instead of ending. That's not 'billions', but the U.S. did take in tens of millions over decades of time. (what do you mean by 'land possession'? -- does it mean only ordinary home ownership? Does it feel like you can't own a home with immigrants immigrating?)

Did the 1990s and 2000s seem like an invasion for you? I lived in Austin, Texas, and it had a lot of immigrants, and I made friends among them easily. To me it seems like life, ordinary life, with "love you neighbor" as the wonderful reality, the enjoyable, fun, good, rewarding reality.
 
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Ringo84

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Depends on how you look at it.

Only one-third of illegals enter by crossing the unprotected border...no problem.

or

Fully one-third of illegals enter by crossing the unprotected border...big problem.

So of the 12 million or so of illegals here only four million crossed the border illegally. Problem/no problem?

No matter how you look at it, the number of apprehensions have been dropping steadily, long before Donny decided that there was an "emergency".
Ringo
 
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OldWiseGuy

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No matter how you look at it, the number of apprehensions have been dropping steadily, long before Donny decided that there was an "emergency".
Ringo

The real invasion of illegals has yet to occur. We need to prepare for it (Boy Scout motto and all that).
 
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Sparagmos

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I'm Norwegian/Dutch/German but I seldom think about that...and I speak American English, cherish our culture and history, not that of Norway, Holland or Germany. Many Latino immigrants have no interest in our language, culture, or history. Most European and Asian immigrants are educated (or are getting one here) and are already fluent in English.
I work with a large number of immigrants. I have to get translators for the groups that need it. I never need to get a translator for the Spanish speakers - they are the most bilingual. It is the Russian, Chinese, and Vietnamese groups that I always need to get translators for. So my experience is the opposite of what you claim.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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What are you envisioning? I'm envisioning more of what I've known all my life -- the same continuing, instead of ending. That's not 'billions', but the U.S. did take in tens of millions over decades of time. (what do you mean by 'land possession'? -- does it mean only ordinary home ownership? Does it feel like you can't own a home with immigrants immigrating?)

Did the 1990s and 2000s seem like an invasion for you? I lived in Austin, Texas, and it had a lot of immigrants, and I made friends among them easily. To me it seems like life, ordinary life, with "love you neighbor" as the wonderful reality, the enjoyable, fun, good, rewarding reality.

Many have allowed themselves to become enslaved in their own lands by their own people. Now they want to flee and come here. Not good.

Despotism is all too familiar to many oppressed peoples. They tolerate tyranny because it's all they've known. It's in their DNA. Look closely at AOC. She is a revolutionary in the mold of Central and South American dictators. Listen to what she is saying, and how she is saying it. Scary.
 
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Ringo84

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The real invasion of illegals has yet to occur. We need to prepare for it (Boy Scout motto and all that).

There is no "invasion". Apprehensions have decreased.
Ringo
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Ringo84

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That's actually covered in the Forbes article:
Forbes said:
Border Patrol apprehensions along the Southwest border in FY 2018 were the 5th lowest level of illegal entry recorded in the past 46 years. (Apprehensions are a proxy for illegal entry.) While the 396,579 apprehensions in FY 2018 represented a 30% increase from FY 2017, that’s largely because the 303,916 apprehensions in FY 2017 were the lowest number of apprehensions recorded along the Southwest border since 1972 – nearly a half century ago.

Digging deeper into the data, in the first three months of FY 2019, the number of apprehensions and inadmissible encounters at ports of entry was higher than during the first three months of FY 2018. However, the number of apprehensions and people deemed inadmissible at ports of entry the first three months of FY 2019 was actually lower than during those same three months in FY 2017 (the year DHS referred to as the “lowest level…on record”). (See here and here for data.) Again, this indicates there is not a national crisis, but rather developments that should be monitored and addressed with reasonable measures (see below).

Even these monthly figures can miss sudden changes. “There have been signs that the migration surge has abruptly receded in recent days,” reports Nick Miroff of the Washington Post in a January 9, 2019 article. “Border stations and shelters that were at crisis levels in late December experienced a sudden drop in the number of families arriving in the past week, according to lawmakers and charity groups.”

Here is the big picture: The most important overlooked immigration development is that illegal entry by individuals from Mexico has plummeted by more than 90% since FY 2000, according to Border Patrol apprehensions data. That means large-scale illegal migration by Mexicans to the United States – the original public justification Donald Trump used for building a wall along the border – is simply over. Demographics and improved economic conditions in Mexico ended it.

Source: There Is No Border Crisis

There's no "crisis" except for the humanitarian one Donny caused with his deliberately cruel child separation policy, and there is definitely no "emergency"; especially when the so-called "president" is taking action on that alleged "emergency" by....going to his Palm Beach golf resort:
Ashton Pittman on Twitter
J.D. Durkin on Twitter
Ringo
 
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OldWiseGuy

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That's actually covered in the Forbes article:


Source: There Is No Border Crisis

There's no "crisis" except for the humanitarian one Donny caused with his deliberately cruel child separation policy, and there is definitely no "emergency"; especially when the so-called "president" is taking action on that alleged "emergency" by....going to his Palm Beach golf resort:
Ashton Pittman on Twitter
J.D. Durkin on Twitter
Ringo

But the looming problem is now from Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador, and perhaps soon from Venezuela. :eek:
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Which is a completely separate issue from the alleged "crisis" at our southern border.
Ringo

The crisis is that the border needs to be secured, and right soon. You don't lock the barn door after the horses are gone.
 
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Ringo84

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The border is already secure, and the statistics I cited bear that out. There is no "crisis" at the border. Whatever crisis there may or may not be in Venezuela, it's separate from the imaginary crisis to our south.
Ringo
 
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OldWiseGuy

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If it gets built, what's to stop THEM from sailing around?

An effective barrier will discourage many from even attempting to cross. Note that crossings plummeted when Trump was elected as many believed a 'wall' would be built immediately. Seeing the delay many then rushed to cross ahead of it's construction.

"Sailing around" isn't so easy.
 
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Halbhh

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Many have allowed themselves to become enslaved in their own lands by their own people. Now they want to flee and come here. Not good.

Despotism is all too familiar to many oppressed peoples. They tolerate tyranny because it's all they've known. It's in their DNA. Look closely at AOC. She is a revolutionary in the mold of Central and South American dictators. Listen to what she is saying, and how she is saying it. Scary.
Don't know if they were representative of 95% or 85%, but the immigrants I knew, all worked and the neighborhoods they lived in were mostly empty during working hours, with most gone to work, some working at home.
 
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Halbhh

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An effective barrier will discourage many from even attempting to cross. Note that crossings plummeted when Trump was elected as many believed a 'wall' would be built immediately. Seeing the delay many then rushed to cross ahead of it's construction.

"Sailing around" isn't so easy.
Let's look--

sept.jpg


Hmmm....Not seeing that "rush to cross" ...here's 2018:
Southwest Border Migration FY2018 | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

As you can see the typical pattern continued in '18, nothing unusual.
 
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