WHY all the great confusion about eternal security?

BCsenior said:

Preaching and teaching against eternal security …
is definitely NOT for new Christians, “babes on milk”.
For many of them, it would be much too discouraging!

But, as they grow in the faith, the precious Holy Spirit
will be trying to revealing deeper spiritual Truths to them.

However, the Spirit only speaks with a still small voice
...which is quite an unfair fight when compared to the opposition: (1) the onslaughts of Satan’s demons,
and (2) man’s fleshly desires!

And these maturing BACs have other big problems to overcome!

There are deceived pastors in the church, who pass on
their deceptions to the poor sheep who depend on them.

Yes, there are false doctrines within the church
... obvious because of all of the many denominations.
Jesus and everyone in the NT warn about false doctrines
and false teachers and false prophets.

Some pastors are SO deceived about eternal security
that they believe the warning verses in the NT concerning
those who are sinning … are only for unsaved people!

Some pastors are NOT deceived, but have allowed themselves to be taken captive by the enemy … and have chosen to prefer the praise of men and the riches of this world over God’s praise! They refuse to preach unpopular doctrines that drive people away, resulting in their kingdom being diminished and fewer tithes coming in!

Then, we have believers who recognize the warning verses, but choose to ignore or reject them so they can stay on the easy and fun broad road.

Many NT verses teach against eternal security.
Most of these Truths are proven by many NT verses:
● Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
● Believers stay righteous through their obedience
● Believers faith must endure until the end of their lives
● Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
● Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
● Believers must love, forgive, not judge or condemn
● Believers must be victorious overcomers
● Believers must stay faithful during persecution
● Believers must not take the mark of the beast

Lately, Satan has deceived much of the church into believing that God’s grace is guaranteed to last forever
in believers’ lives. Some people are calling this
“hyper grace” (extreme grace). The truth of the matter
is that Ephesians 2:8-9 is ONLY saying: it is only
by God’s grace that sinful people can be born again!

Even if your Bible says “by grace you are being saved”, salvation is still a process -- not to be completed
until death. Please understand: man’s co-operation
is involved in his salvation. He can choose to
fall away, fall from grace, draw back to perdition.
He can be shut out of the Kingdom of God.
He can be shut out of the New Jerusalem.
He can be blotted out of the Book of Life.
He can gain eternal death, and he can lose eternal life.
All of this is clearly stated in the NT.

Click to expand...

In the useful style of James, very direct and plain spoken.

Sometimes it may be that what many most need to hear is the familiar verses like Ephesians 2 NIV, v8-9 in their complete passage, which is so wonderful.

At least some haven't recently heard/read all 10 verses.

And then some can't even do that right now, and need a shorter passage, and then it may be for some just giving at least the 3 verses of 8 through 10 (including that invaluable verse 10 which is the direct continuation from verse 9), for those needing great brevity at the moment.

We surely need to read again Mark 13 as it speaks of coming persecutions and deceptions yet His elect will not be deceived.

These are the words of Jesus...

Mark 13

20 "And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."

Let us not forget that those truely in Jesus have the Fear of Him in their hearts that seals them against disobedience.

This is clear from the prophesies of Jeremiah as follows:

Jer 31:

31 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

and... Jer 32:

37 "Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:

And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:

And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me...."

So the New Covenant promised to come by Jeremiah and initiated through Jesus - for the first time seals believers to obedience through the indwelling of His presence which includes the Fear of Him.

This is real for New Covenant believers and goes hand in hand with John 10: 27-29 - again the words of Jesus -

27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them to me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

Lastly Paul writes in Romans 8: 39 ... "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” This list includes ourselves...

So this assurance of salvation for the chosen true believers is real, confirmed by many scriptures and the fear of loosing salvation was never intended by God to question His promises. Fear of loosing salvation brings an anxiousness that God never intended.

Our salvation is beautiful and we rightly rejoice in it - not question it or doubt it.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

Hi there,

The New Covenant promises in Jeremiah are for all truely born again believers.

There is confusion between the status and condition of believers. Ones status can be as an adopted son or daughter but ones condition can be miles away from His righteousness and miles away from the blessings of the Kingdom. I can say this confidently as a prodigal son, born again at 13, but had 11 years of depravity and rebellion between 17 and 28. He met me when I determined to return to my Christian roots, gave me a shake and put me back on the rails. The fear of Him was there, as i knew it was my last chance. It took 7 years of prayer and ministry to be free of the effects of drugs and foolishness. As an evangelist we need to have a word of hope for those who have lost their way as i had. We need to be careful not to have a theology that insists these folks are damned.

Blessings

Carl Emerson.

Hi there,

When encountering the back-slidden, I am sure we should preach the law and the consequences of sin, but not condemnation.

Those who push loosing salvation are at odds with the promises of the New Covenant.

They leave no room for a prodigal's return to faith and the Father.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

BCsenior said:

Brother, I believe in the warnings of the NT.
God has put them there for a purpose.
Ditto for the warnings He gives through His prophets.
Ditto for the warnings He gives by leading His chosen
ones through hell so they can testify of who is there.
I fear that your sentiments are at cross purposes with
the Lord. You don't believe in warnings, just promises?
Yes, blessings to you also!

Click to expand...

Warnings for the unbeliever, promises for the believer.

BCsenior said:

OK, great, you believe all of the warnings in the NT
are for non-believers, is that correct?

Click to expand...

No, I am just saying that most believers take scripture out of context and dont read who the letter was written to and why. Many people dont really read, they see what they want and use it to their purpose to either scare or promote a message of fear or untruth to others who are not as strong in their faith. Its an epidemic.

You said...

Brother, I believe in the warnings of the NT.
God has put them there for a purpose.

I agree...

Ditto for the warnings He gives through His prophets.

I agree...

Ditto for the warnings He gives by leading His chosen
ones through hell so they can testify of who is there.

100% agree

I fear that your sentiments are at cross purposes with
the Lord.

Why? I said we should preach the law and the consequences of sin to the backslidden but not condemnation. It would be a different conversation with the unsaved.

You don't believe in warnings, just promises?

Not so... just leaving Grace for a prodigals return, there are thousands out there who need to know they can come home.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

Carl Emerson said:

Not so... just leaving Grace for a prodigals return there are thousands out there who need to know they can come home.

Click to expand...

Carl, you are so correct, that is the new covenant, its grace.

BCsenior said:

I am sorry, but you have been deceived.
You should take a close look at this thread ...

Click to expand...

I have been deceived? You know me?

I have looked at this thread and you are the one who is saying that all of this is about behaviour. Christianity is NOT a behaviour modification program. Most of everything I have seen you post here is OT which is OC and not of the new. So with that I would say put on the NC glasses when reading the old testament.

Carl Emerson said:

My Father, which gave them to me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

Click to expand...

God doesnt double talk.

BCsenior said:

Yes, God's true elect follow Jesus to the max.
Their saving faith includes enduring belief,
enduring trust, and enduring obedience!
Their sanctification is made successful by
their continual repenting of their sins.

Click to expand...

Paul tells the Corinthian church that they are wash and sanctified (past tense), do you know what sanctified is? Set apart, so either you are set apart or you are not, there is no half way.

BCsenior said:

These few can indeed have assurance of salvation.
It is indeed through having the correct and acceptable
heart attitude and by striving for perfection.

Click to expand...

We have been perfected, for all time. Hebrews 10:14 It is not by your effort but by His sacrifice that you have been perfected. Are you going to stand before God and tell Him it was by your effort or by the blood of His son?

BCsenior said:

Several times, prophetess Julie Whedbee has said that
Jesus' firstfruits will be the only ones who are raptured.
These special ones fit the above description.
In their new bodies, they will be sent out to minister
to whom they are told to minister to during the reign
of the antichrist. Interesting, what?

Click to expand...

I would not be listening to ANYONE who calls themselves a "prophetess", or use them to defend a position of God's final word.

BCsenior said:

In all of my many threads here ...
99% of all Scripture quotations are from the NT.
Truth be told, I'm really only interested in the NT.

Click to expand...

Ok great, lets talk NT, love it, love you brother.