Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24 and Luke 21 the same event?

  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Matthew 24 all fulfilled

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Matthew 24 partially fulfilled

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • None of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    21
Status
Not open for further replies.

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
LittleLambofJesus said:
Matthew 23:34
‘Because of this behold! I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes
And of them ye shall be killing and crucifying,
and of them ye will scourge<3146> in your synagogues<4864>,
and will pursue from city to city;

Mark 13:9
‘And take ye heed to yourselves,
for they shall deliver you up to sanhedrins<4892>, and to synagogues,
ye shall be beaten<1194>,
Luke 21:12
and before all these,
they shall lay on you their hands, and persecute<1377>,
delivering<3860> up to synagogues and prisons<5438>
Choose Wisely said:
When discussing what will happen in Jerusalem Luke talks 70 AD and Matthew talks a future event that has not occurred yet.
Conclusion - Both are comparable endtime prophecies.......except ...... When talking about what happens in Jerusalem in these chapters Luke talks 70AD and Matthew talks a future event.
LittleLambofJesus said:
Do you and/or others view Luke 17 as 70ad or future?
Is Luke 17 different than Luke 21?

Matthew 24:37

“But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Luk 17:26
“And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
Erik Nelson said:
Luke 17 = 2C
sudden unexpected judgement and separation, without the obvious build ups to 70ad

according to the orthodox study bible (Luke 17:37 = Rev 20:9?):
LittleLambofJesus said:
I actually have a thread on Luke 17:37:

Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse<4430> may be,
there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.
Luke 17:37
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?'
and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.'
Erik Nelson said:
Luke 17 includes phrases from the entire Olivet discourse, both before and after Matthew 24:34, which could divide that version of the OD between 70 ad and the 2C
but Luke 17 conflates it all into a single event
Nice graph p70

Men of Nineveh and a Queen of the south are shown both in Matthew and Luke, but outside of the OD.

Different greek words are used for men of Nineveh #450 and Queen of the south #1453......another words, the queen is "awakened/roused" and the Ninevites "stand-up".
[I have a fairly large study on this in relation to the OT and Revelation.]

450. anistemi from 303 and 2476;
to stand up (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive):--arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up(-right).

303. ana an-ah' a primary preposition and adverb;
properly, up;............

2476. histemi a prolonged form of a primary stao stah'-o (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses);
to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively):...................


Matthew 12:41
`Men of Nineveh shall be rising/standing-up<ἀναστήσονται 450> in the judging with this generation and shall be condemning it,

that they reform/repent into the proclamation of Jonah
and behold! greater/more of Jonah here.
Luke 11:32
'Men of Nineveh shall be rising/standing-up<ἀναστήσονται 450> in the judging with this generation and shall be condemning it,

that they reform/repent at the proclamation of Jonah
and behold! greater/more of Jonah here!

Same exact word form used in 1 Thess:
Greek and Hebrew Reader Online

1 Thessalonians 4:16
because the Lord Himself, in a shout, in Chief-Messenger's voice and in trump<4536> of God, shall be descending from heaven,
and the dead in Christ shall be rising/standing-up<ἀναστήσονται 450> First,

==========================
Now the Queen:

1453. egeiro probably akin to the base of 58
(through the idea of collecting one's faculties); to waken (transitively or intransitively), i.e. rouse (literally, from sleep, from sitting or lying, from disease, from death; or figuratively, from obscurity, inactivity, ruins, nonexistence):--awake, lift (up), raise (again, up), rear up, (a-)rise (again, up), stand, take up.


Matthew 12:42
`A Queen of the south shall be being roused/wakened<1453> in the judging with this generation and shall be condemning it.

That she came out of the ends of the land to hear the wisdom of Solomon,
and behold! greater/more of Solomon here!

Luke 11:31
'A Queen of the south shall be being roused/wakened<1453> in the judging with the men of this generation and shall be condemning them, because she came from the ends of the land to hear the wisdom of Solomon

and behold! greater/more<4119> than Solomon here!

#1453 is used 1 time in Revelation....the rousing of John to measure the Sanctuary

The Court in Revelation 11:2

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "be rousing<1453>! and measure!

the Sanctuary<3485> of the God
and the Altar
and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold without of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> outside,
and no it thou should be measuring.
That it was given to the nations
and the holy City they shall be treading<3961> forty two months.

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Have any of you seen "the Life of Christ in Stereo?"
It is one of the best, in my opinion, combining of the gospels.

It is not perfect, but it has the entire olivet discourse put together.
I just now had a chance to look into the book and it sounds interesting:

Life of Christ in Stereo: The Four Gospels Combined As One by Johnston M. Cheney
The Four Gospels Speak in Harmony

"The author has coordinated the four Gospels in such a way that the different accounts supplement each other and give us a fully developed picture of the life of our Lord. The book is particularly important for those who think there may be discrepancies in the four Gospels. ... Google Books
Originally published: 1969
Author: Johnston M. Cheney
Editor: Stanley A. Ellisen
==================================================

Here is another version of a fourfold Gospel, which you can read online.
I ran into it over 10 years ago and had forgotten about it till I went to that book site you mentioned..........
I am going thru it now..................

Four Fold Gospel

The Fourfold Gospel
J. W. McGarvey and Philip Y. Pendleton (1914)
===========================
  • CVIII. In Reply to the Questions as to His Authority, Jesus Gives the Third Great Group of Parables.
    • A. Introduction.
    • B. Parable of the Two Sons.
    • C. Parable of the Wicked Husbandmen.
    • D. Parable of the Marriage of the King's Son.
  • CIX. Jewish Rulers Seek to Ensnare Jesus.
    • A. Pharisees and Herodians Ask About Tribute.
    • B. Sadducees Ask About the Resurrection.
    • C. A Lawyer Asks About the Great Commandment.
    • D. Jesus' Question Which None Could Answer.
  • CX. Jesus' Last Discourse. Denunciation of Scribes and Pharisees.
  • CXI. Observing the Offerings and Widow's Mites.
  • CXII. Greeks Seek Jesus. He Foretells That He Shall Draw All Men Unto Him.
  • CXIII. Destruction of Jerusalem Foretold.
  • CXIV. The Second Coming of Christ.
    ====================================
    CXIII.
    DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM FORETOLD.
    aMATT. XXIV. 1-28; bMARK XIII. 1-23; cLUKE XXI. 5-24.

    a1 And Jesus went out from the temple [leaving it to return no more], and was going on his way; and his disciples came to him bas he went forth ato show him the buildings of the temple. bone of his disciples saith unto him, Teacher, behold, what manner of stones and what manner of buildings! c5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and offerings, he said [The strength and wealth of the temple roused the admiration of the Galilæans. The great stones in its fortifications promised safety from its enemies, and the goodly offerings bespoke the zeal of its friends. According to Josephus, some of the stones were nearly seventy feet in length, twelve feet in height, and eighteen feet in breadth. The same historian tells us of the gifts or offerings which adorned it: crowns, shields, goblets, chain of gold present by Agrippa, and a golden vine with its vast clusters which was the gift of Herod. The temple was built of [619] white limestone, and its beauty and strength made it admired of all nations. It took forty-six years to finish, and ten thousand skilled workmen are said to have been employed in its construction.].........

    b21 And then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Christ; aor, Here; bor, Lo, there; believe it not: 22 for there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show agreat signs and wonders; so as to {bthat they may} lead astray, if possible, aeven the elect. [For accounts of these lying prophets who appeared before and during the siege, see Josephus, Wars iv., v., vi. Christ warns his followers: 1. Not to be deceived by spurious Christs. 2. Not to believe that he himself has again appeared. This latter warning is further enforced by what follows.] b23 But take [628] ye heed: behold, I have told you all things beforehand. a26 If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man. [The coming of Christ would be an event needing no herald; every man would see it for himself. See p. 531.] 28 Wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. [See pp. 533, 534.]
    ================================

  • CXIV.
    THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST.
    aMATT. XXIV. 29-51; bMARK XIII. 24-37; cLUKE XXI. 25-36. b24 But in those days, aimmediately after the {bthat} atribulation of those days. [Since the coming of Christ did not follow close upon the destruction of Jerusalem, the word "immediately" used by Matthew is somewhat puzzling. There are, however, three ways in which it may be explained:
  • 1. That Jesus reckons the time after his own divine, and not after our human, fashion. Viewing the word in this light, the passage at II. Pet. iii. 4-9 may almost be regarded as an inspired comment with reference to this passage.
  • 2. The terrible judgment upon Jerusalem and the corresponding terror of the judgment day have between them no intervening season of judgment in any way worthy to be compared to either of them. The two periods, therefore, stand with regard to each other in immediate connection.
  • 3. The tribulation which came upon the Jewish people merely began with the destruction of Jerusalem, other woes followed at once, and, coming down through all the centuries of wandering and dispersion, they were yet unfulfilled and incomplete. See Deut. xxviii. 58-68] ....................

    35 Watch therefore: for ye know not when the lord of the house cometh, whether at even, or at midnight, or at cockcrowing, or in the morning [The night was then divided into four watches. See p. 322. Jesus may here refer either to the duration of the world or to the life of the individual. He divides either period into four sections, in accordance with the night watches which were so fully associated with watchfulness]; 36; lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
    37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. [This warning message was not for the apostles alone, but for all disciples.]

    ...................................................................
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Josephus mentions a wondrous sign of Angels warring in the clouds over Jerusalem during the Jewish war.
It is almost as if Josephus is witnessing the actual fulfillment of theOlivet Discourse and Revelation.
The Olivet Discourse and Revelation are one and the same Event!

Mat 24:7
“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
Luk 21:11
“And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD


Our Lord adds "pestilences" likewise. Pestilence treads upon the heels of famine, it may therefore reasonably be presumed, that this terrible scourge accompanied the famines which have just been enumerated. History, however, particularly distinguishes two instances of this calamity, which occurred before the commencement of the Jewish war.
The first took place at Babylon about A. D. 40, and raged so alarmingly, that great multitudes of Jews fled from that city to Seleucia for safety, as hath been hinted already.
The other happened at Rome A.D. 65, and carried off prodigious multitudes. Both Tacitus and Suetonius also record, that similar calamities prevailed, during this period, in various parts of the Roman empire.
After Jerusalem was surrounded by the army of Titus, pestilential diseases soon made their appearance there to aggravate the miseries, and deepen the horrors of the siege. They were partly occasioned by the immense multitudes which were crowded together in the city, partly by the putrid effluvia which arose from the unburied dead, and partly from spread of famine.

Rev 16:2
So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.

===========================
Couldn't a cloud symbolize smoke, which would have been heavy over Jerusalem because of the burning of the City......

Eze 32:7
When I put out your light, I will cover the heavens, and make its stars dark;
I will cover the sun with a cloud,
And the moon shall not give her light.

Mat 24:29
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Mar 13:24
“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
Luk 21:25
“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;

Here are some rather "bizarre" heavenly type of events that Josephus recorded:

[6] - Josephus has collected the chief of these portents together, and introduces his account by a reflection on the strangeness of that infatuation, which could induce his countrymen to give credit to impostors, and unfounded reports, whilst they disregarded the divine admonitions, confirmed, as he asserts they Were, by the following extraordinary signs :

1. "A meteor, resembling a sword, [7] hung over Jerusalem during one whole year." This could not be a comet, for it was stationary, and was visible for twelve successive months. A sword too, though a fit emblem for destruction, but ill represents a comet.

2. "On the eighth of the month Zanthicus, (before the feast of unleavened bread) at the ninth hour of the night, there shone round about the altar, and the circumjacent buildings of the temple, a light equal to the brightness of the day, which continued for the space of half an hour." This could not be the effect of lightning, nor of a vivid aurora borealis, for it was confined to a particular spoil and the light shone unintermittedly thirty minutes.

3. "As the High Priest were leading a heifer to the altar to be sacrificed, she brought forth a lamb, in the midst of the temple." Such is the strange account given by the historian. Some may regard it as a "Grecian fable," while others may think that they discern in this prodigy a miraculous rebuke of Jewish infidelity and impiety, for rejecting the ANTITYPICAL Lamb, who had offered Up Himself as an atonement, "once for all," and who, by thus completely fulfilling their design, had virtually abrogated the Levitical sacrifices. However this may be, the circumstances of the prodigy are remarkable. It did not occur in an obscure part of the city, but in the temple ; not at an ordinary time, but at the passover, the season of our LORD'S crucifixion in the presence, not of the vulgar merely, but of the High Priests and their attendants, and when they were leading the sacrifice to the altar.

4. "' About the sixth hour of the night, the eastern gate of the temple was seen to open without human assistance." When the guards informed the Curator of this event, he sent men to assist them in shutting it, who with great difficulty succeeded. -- This gate, as hath been observed already, 'Was of solid brass, and required twenty men to close it every evening. It could not have been opened by a "strong gust of wind," or a slight earthquake;" for Josephus says, it was secured by iron bolts And bars, which were let down into a large threshold; consisting of one entire stone." [8]

5. "Soon after the feast of the Passover, in various parts of the country, before the Setting of the sun, chariots and armed men were seen in the air, passing round about Jerusalem. " Neither could this portentous spectacle be occasioned by the aurora borealis, for it occurred before the setting of the sun ; or merely the fancy of a few villagers, gazing at the heavens, for it was seen in various parts of the country.

6. "At the subsequent feast of Pentecost, while the priests were going, by night, into the inner, temple to perform their customary ministrations, they first felt, as they said, a shaking, accompanied by an indistinct murmuring, and afterwards voices as of a multitude, saying, in a distinct and earnest manner, "LET US DEPART HENCE." This gradation will remind the reader of that awful transaction, which the feast of Pentecost *as principally instituted to commemorate. First, a shaking was heard ; this would naturally induce the priests to listen : an unintelligible murmur succeeds; this would more powerfully arrest their attention, and while it was thus awakened arid fixed, they heard, says Josephus, the voices as of a multitude, distinctly pronouncing the words "LET US DEPART HENCE." -- And accordingly, before the period for celebrating this feast returned, the Jewish war had commenced, and in the space of three years afterwards, Jerusalem was surrounded by the Roman army, the temple converted into a citadel, and its sacred courts streaming with the blood of human victims.

7. As the last and most fearful omen, Josephus relates that one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a rustic of the lower class, during the Feast of Tabernacles, suddenly exclaimed in the temple, "A voice from the east a voice from the west -- a voice from the four winds- a voice against Jerusalem and the temple -- a voice against bridegrooms and brides -- a voice against the whole people !" These words he incessantly proclaimed aloud both day and night, through all the streets of Jerusalem, for seven years and five months together, commencing at a time (A. D. 62) when the city was in a state of peace, and overflowing with prosperity, and terminating amidst the horrors of the siege.

This disturber, having excited the attention of the magistracy, was brought before Albinus the Roman governor, who commanded that he should be scourged. But the severest stripes drew from him neither tears nor supplications. As he never thanked those who relieved, so neither did he complain of the injustice of those who struck him. And no other answer could the governor obtain to his interrogatories, but his usual denunciation of "Woe, woe to Jerusalem !" which he still continued to proclaim through the city, but especially during the festivals, when his manner became more earnest, and the tone of his voice louder. At length, on the commencement of the siege, he ascended the walls, and, in a more powerful voice than ever, exclaimed, "Woe, woe to this city, this temple, and this people !" And then, with a presentment of his own death, added," Woe, woe to myself "' he had scarcely uttered these words when a stone from one of the Roman engines killed him on the spot.

Such are the prodigies related by Josephus, and which, excepting the first, he places in the Year immediately preceding the Jewish war. Several of them are recorded also by Tacitus. Nevertheless, it ought to be observed, -that they are received by Christian writers cautiously, and with various degrees of credit. Those, however, who are most skeptical, and who resolve them into natural causes, allow the "superintendence of GOD to awaken his people by some of these means." Whatever the fact, in this respect, may be, it is clear that they correspond to our LORD'S prediction of "fearful sights, and great signs from heaven;" and ought to be deemed a sufficient answer to the objector, who demands whether any such appearances are respectably recorded.

The next prediction of our LORD related to the persecutions of his disciples : "They shall lay their hands on you (said he), and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake :" Luke xxi. 12. "and they shall deliver you up to councils, and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten :" Mark xiii. 9. "and some of You shall they CAUSE TO BE PUT TO DEATH."- Luke xxi. 16.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Erik Nelson
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The Olivet Discourse and Revelation are one and the same Event!

The following has not happened yet.

Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mat_12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Rev 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."


2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:


Joh 5:27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
Joh 5:29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.



The verses above kill "Full-Preterism".

.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Erik Nelson
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
The following has not happened yet.

Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mat_12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Rev 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

.
Revelation and the Olivet discourse are the same event.
 
  • Prayers
Reactions: BABerean2
Upvote 0

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,118
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,648.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The following has not happened yet.

Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mat_12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Rev 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."


2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:


Joh 5:27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
Joh 5:29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.



The verses above kill "Full-Preterism".

.
First, those verses. Obviously reference the GENERAL judgment. Described in revelation 20:12

the mini first resurrection. Of Revelation 20 verses one through 4. Only involves a select group, all solely and exclusively Saints, and even they are still subject to the second resurrection, even though their fate is already assured.

So I would understand the following to support postmillennialism:

2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [=Rev 20:12 GWTJ] at His appearing and His kingdom:
 
Upvote 0

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,118
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,648.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
skip to 15:30

1) Jesus told the Apostles to flee Jerusalem when they saw the abomination of Desolation. Church historian Eusebius of Caesarea records that Christians fled from Jerusalem. When they saw it surrounded by Roman armies. And that their flight was in obedience to a command from the Lord. Ergo. First century Christians in about 70 ad beheld the abomination of Desolation and so fled Jerusalem, they "came out of her" per Revelation 18.

2) The abomination that brings Desolation must have been assumed committed internally by Israel my first century Jews Which would Remove God's protection and thereby allow and permit. Pagans to conquer the city. Something like Titus, a Pagan Committing sacrilege on the temple grounds is the result. The effect not the cause.

The first part of the Olivet discourse appears to have clearly been fulfilled in the first century.

Yet Final general judgment. At the return of Christ on the Great White throne. Has obviously not occurred.

(The best explanation I'm aware of so far is that of Kenneth Gentry That. Matthew 24:35. Jumps ahead. From the first century judgment on Jerusalem. To the final judgement at the end of earth time.)


 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
All 3 passages ask the same 2 questions:
when? shall these be,
and what? the sign

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling! to us,
when? shall these be, and what? the sign of Thy parousia,

and full consummation<4930> of the age.

Mark 13:4
Tell us!
when? shall these be and what? the sign
whenever may be being about these.

Luke 21
7 Yet they inquire of Him, saying, “Teacher!
when? then shall these be
And what? the sign

whenever may be being about these to becoming?
The Greek word #4930 is unique only to Matthew and 1 verse in Hebrews:

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling! to us,
when? shall these be, and what? the sign of Thy parousia,
and full-end<συν-τελείας 4930> of the age.

4930.
sun-teleia from 4931;
entire completion, i.e. consummation (of a dispensation):--end.
4931. sunteleo from 4862 and 5055;
to complete entirely; generally, to execute (literally or figuratively):--end, finish, fulfil, make.
4862. sun soon a primary preposition denoting union;
with or together (but much closer than 3326 or 3844), i.e. by association, companionship, process, resemblance, possession, instrumentality, addition, etc.:--beside, with. In composition it has similar applications, including completeness.
5055. teleo from 5056;
to end, i.e. complete, execute, conclude, discharge (a debt):--accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform.

Mat 13:39
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil,
and the harvest is a full end of the age, and the reapers are messengers.
40 'As, then, the darnel is gathered up, and is burned with fire,
so shall it be in the full end of this age,
49 so shall it be in the full end of the age, the messengers shall come forth and separate the evil out of the midst of the righteous,
Mat 24:3
And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, 'Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'
Mat 28:20
teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days -- till the full end of the age.'

Hebrews used the plural form of age:

Heb 9:26

since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world, but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested;
=============================
Genesis 1:1 (YLT)
G5055 τελέω (teleō), occurs 30 times in 26 verses

6x Matt 0x Mar 4x Luk 2x John 1x Acts 5x Epistles 8x Revelation

This form of Teleo is used the most times:

g5055 τελεσθῇ — 6x

Luk 12:50
but I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how am I pressed till it may be completed!
Rev 10:7
but in the days of the voice of the seventh messenger, when he may be about to sound, and the secret of God may be finished,
as He did declare to His own servants, to the prophets.
Rev 17:17
for God did give into their hearts to do its mind, and to make one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast till the sayings of God may be complete,
Rev 20:3
and he cast him to the abyss, and did shut him up, and put a seal upon him, that he may not lead astray the nations any more, till the thousand years may be finished; and after these it behoveth him to be loosed a little time.
Rev 20:5
5 and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.
7 And when the thousand years may be finished, the Adversary shall be loosed out of his prison,
==============
The other 3 times used in Revelation:

Rev 11:7
'And when they may finish their testimony, the beast that is coming up out of the abyss shall make war with them, and overcome them, and kill them,
Rev 15:1
1 And I saw another sign in the heaven, great and wonderful, seven messengers having the seven last plagues, because in these was completed the wrath of God,
8 and filled was the sanctuary with smoke from the glory of God, and from His power, and no one was able to enter into the sanctuary till the seven plagues of the seven messengers may be finished.

And the various forms you can find on the lexicon site:
Genesis 1:1 (YLT)
ἐτέλεσαν — 2x
ἐτέλεσεν — 4x
ἐτελέσθη — 1x
τελεῖ — 1x
τελεῖτε — 2x
τελέσητε — 2x
τελεσθῇ — 6x
τελεσθῆναι — 1x
τελεσθήσεται — 1x
τελεσθῶσιν — 1x
τελέσωσιν — 1x
τελοῦσα — 1x
τετέλεκα — 1x
Τετέλεσται — 1x
τετέλεσται — 1x
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
skip to 15:30

1) Jesus told the Apostles to flee Jerusalem when they saw the abomination of Desolation. Church historian Eusebius of Caesarea records that Christians fled from Jerusalem. When they saw it surrounded by Roman armies. And that their flight was in obedience to a command from the Lord. Ergo. First century Christians in about 70 ad beheld the abomination of Desolation and so fled Jerusalem, they "came out of her" per Revelation 18.

2) The abomination that brings Desolation must have been assumed committed internally by Israel my first century Jews Which would Remove God's protection and thereby allow and permit. Pagans to conquer the city. Something like Titus, a Pagan Committing sacrilege on the temple grounds is the result. The effect not the cause.

The first part of the Olivet discourse appears to have clearly been fulfilled in the first century.

Yet Final general judgment. At the return of Christ on the Great White throne. Has obviously not occurred.

(The best explanation I'm aware of so far is that of Kenneth Gentry That. Matthew 24:35. Jumps ahead. From the first century judgment on Jerusalem. To the final judgement at the end of earth time.)




Do you know that Don K. Preston is a proponent of "Full-Preterism"?

.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Erik Nelson
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
All 3 passages ask the same 2 questions:
when? shall these be,
and what? the sign

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling! to us,
when? shall these be, and what? the sign of Thy parousia,

and full consummation<4930> of the age.

Mark 13:4
Tell us!
when? shall these be and what? the sign
whenever may be being about these.

Luke 21
7 Yet they inquire of Him, saying, “Teacher!
when? then shall these be
And what? the sign

whenever may be being about these to becoming?
The Greek word #4930 is unique only to Matthew and 1 verse in Hebrews:

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling! to us,
when? shall these be, and what? the sign of Thy parousia,
and full-end<συν-τελείας 4930> of the age.

4930.
sun-teleia from 4931;
entire completion, i.e. consummation (of a dispensation):--end.
4931. sunteleo from 4862 and 5055;
to complete entirely; generally, to execute (literally or figuratively):--end, finish, fulfil, make.
4862. sun soon a primary preposition denoting union;
with or together (but much closer than 3326 or 3844), i.e. by association, companionship, process, resemblance, possession, instrumentality, addition, etc.:--beside, with. In composition it has similar applications, including completeness.
5055. teleo from 5056;
to end, i.e. complete, execute, conclude, discharge (a debt):--accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform.

Mat 13:39
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil,
and the harvest is a full end of the age, and the reapers are messengers.
40 'As, then, the darnel is gathered up, and is burned with fire,
so shall it be in the full end of this age,
49 so shall it be in the full end of the age, the messengers shall come forth and separate the evil out of the midst of the righteous,
Mat 24:3
And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, 'Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'
Mat 28:20
teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days -- till the full end of the age.'

Hebrews used the plural form of age:

Heb 9:26

since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world, but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested;
=============================
Genesis 1:1 (YLT)
G5055 τελέω (teleō), occurs 30 times in 26 verses

6x Matt 0x Mar 4x Luk 2x John 1x Acts 5x Epistles 8x Revelation

This form of Teleo is used the most times:

g5055 τελεσθῇ — 6x

Luk 12:50
but I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how am I pressed till it may be completed!
Rev 10:7
but in the days of the voice of the seventh messenger, when he may be about to sound, and the secret of God may be finished,
as He did declare to His own servants, to the prophets.
Rev 17:17
for God did give into their hearts to do its mind, and to make one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast till the sayings of God may be complete,
Rev 20:3
and he cast him to the abyss, and did shut him up, and put a seal upon him, that he may not lead astray the nations any more, till the thousand years may be finished; and after these it behoveth him to be loosed a little time.
Rev 20:5
5 and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.
7 And when the thousand years may be finished, the Adversary shall be loosed out of his prison,
==============
The other 3 times used in Revelation:

Rev 11:7
'And when they may finish their testimony, the beast that is coming up out of the abyss shall make war with them, and overcome them, and kill them,
Rev 15:1
1 And I saw another sign in the heaven, great and wonderful, seven messengers having the seven last plagues, because in these was completed the wrath of God,
8 and filled was the sanctuary with smoke from the glory of God, and from His power, and no one was able to enter into the sanctuary till the seven plagues of the seven messengers may be finished.

And the various forms you can find on the lexicon site:
Genesis 1:1 (YLT)
ἐτέλεσαν — 2x
ἐτέλεσεν — 4x
ἐτελέσθη — 1x
τελεῖ — 1x
τελεῖτε — 2x
τελέσητε — 2x
τελεσθῇ — 6x
τελεσθῆναι — 1x
τελεσθήσεται — 1x
τελεσθῶσιν — 1x
τελέσωσιν — 1x
τελοῦσα — 1x
τετέλεκα — 1x
Τετέλεσται — 1x
τετέλεσται — 1x
Do you know that Don K. Preston is a proponent of "Full-Preterism"?

.
What does that have to do with my post :scratch:
I am quoting from the Greek texts.
Anyone that posts NT verses, I will automatically check the Greek.


.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
BABerean2 said:
The following has not happened yet.

Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mat_12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

The verses above kill "Full-Preterism".

First, those verses. Obviously reference the GENERAL judgment. Described in revelation 20:12

the mini first resurrection. Of Revelation 20 verses one through 4. Only involves a select group, all solely and exclusively Saints, and even they are still subject to the second resurrection, even though their fate is already assured.

So I would understand the following to support postmillennialism:

2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [=Rev 20:12 GWTJ] at His appearing and His kingdom:
Hello Eric.
Have you checked out this thread yet?

REVE 20:5-6 "THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION"

[This is a sort of a off-shoot of the above thread concerning the resurrection]

I was translating/studying on those 2 witnesses in Revelation 11 and something just stood out at me concerning the word "stand<2476" and remembered that is also the word used in the word for "resurrection<2476>" which literally means to "stand up", such as from a laying down or sitting position.

Could it be possible/plausible that those 2 witnesses could be symbolizing those of the 1st resurrection in Revelation 20?

I put some verses up from Revelation that use #2476, along with the Greek.

Revelation 11:11
And after the three days and a half,
a spirit of life out of the GOD entered into Them,
and They stand<esthsan 2476> upon their feet.
And great fear fell upon those beholding them,

Revelation 20:
5 The rest of the dead not live until should be being finished the thousand years,
This the First Resurrection<ἀνάστασις/ana-stasiV 386>
6 Happy/blessed and holy the one having part<3313> in the first Resurrection<ἀναστάσει ana-stasei 386>,

Revelation 14:1
And I saw and behold!
a Lambkin standing<esthkos 2476> upon the mount Sion,
and with him an hundred forty-four thousands, having the name of his Father written upon their foreheads;

Revelation 15:2
and I saw as a glassy<5193>sea having been mingled to fire,
and those conquering>3528> out of the beast, and out of his image<1504>, and out of the number of it's name,
standing<ἑστῶτας/estwtaV 2476> upon the glassy sea, having harps/lyres of Lord the God,

Revelation 20:12
and I saw the dead, the great<3173> and the small<3398>, standing<ἑστῶτας/estwtaV 2476> before *God[*throne],
and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is being of the life,
and were judged the dead out of the having been written in the scrolls according to their works

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

386. anastasis
a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case
or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):
raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.
G386 ἀνάστασις (anastasis) occurs 42 times in 40 verses

303. ana a primary preposition and adverb;
properly, up; but (by extension) used (distributively) severally, or (locally) at (etc.)

2476. histemi a prolonged form of a primary stao stah'-o (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses);
to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively):--abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up).
G2476 ἵστημι (histēmi) occurs 163 times in 152 verses

Revelation 20:1-4
Revelation 20:
1 And I saw a Messenger descending<2597> out of the heaven, having the Key of the Abyss, and a great Chain<254> upon His hand.
2 And He seizes<2902> the Dragon, the serpent, the ancient one<744> who is being a devil and satan/adversary, and bounds<1210> him a thousand years.
3 And casts him into the Abyss, and locks<2808> and seals over Him,
that no he should be deceiving<4105> the Nations<1484> should be being finished<5055> the thousand years.
After these, is binding<1163> to be loosed<3089> Him for a little<3398> time<5550>.
4 And I saw thrones, and they are seated<2653> upon them, and judgment<2917> was given to them,
and the souls of those having been beheaded<3990> because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of the GOD,
and those not worship the beast, nor the image of it,
and not got the mark upon the forehead<3359>
and upon their hand.
And they live and reign with the Christ a thousand years.
Some greek resources I use:

Greek and Hebrew Reader Online
Reve 20:1-6

Revelation 20 - Parallel Greek New Testament - HTML Bible by johnhurt.com

Reve 20:1-6
 
Upvote 0

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,118
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,648.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What does that have to do with my post :scratch:
I am quoting from the Greek texts.
Anyone that posts NT verses, I will automatically check the Greek.


.
Mr. Preston argues convincingly. That the abomination of Desolation described in the Olivet discourse. of Matthew 24. Was fulfilled in The first century. In the destruction of Jerusalem in the year 70.

Partial preterists agree with full hyper preterists up to a point. There's no throwing out the baby with the bathwater. As the Roman. stoic philosopher Seneca stated. "I shall never fail to quote a bad author if the line is good."

Moreover. The Christian community came out of Jerusalem in the year 70. As per revelation 18. Thus the year 70 judgment against Jerusalem. Symbolically, Babylon. Included an element of sifting wheat from tares. Of separating sheep from goats. Everyone who rejected Jesus is command stayed in Jerusalem and was slaughtered tragically.

Only those who obeyed Jesus' command. Including the Christian community and the Proto Rabbinique Community of Rabbi Yohanan Ben Zakkai. All of whom fled the city survived to modern times.

You yourself seem to be stating that Hebrews. Applies the terms "full end of the age" to the time it was written in the first century immediately prior to the fall of Jerusalem in the year 70.
 
Upvote 0

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,118
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,648.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Heb 9:26
since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world, but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested;
=============================
Rev 17:17
for God did give into their hearts to do its mind, and to make one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast till the sayings of God may be complete,
Rev 20:3
and he cast him to the abyss, and did shut him up, and put a seal upon him, that he may not lead astray the nations any more, till the thousand years may be finished; and after these it behoveth him to be loosed a little time.
Rev 20:5
5 and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.
7 And when the thousand years may be finished, the Adversary shall be loosed out of his prison,
==============
The other 3 times used in Revelation:

Rev 11:7
'And when they may finish their testimony, the beast that is coming up out of the abyss shall make war with them, and overcome them, and kill them,
Rev 15:1
1 And I saw another sign in the heaven, great and wonderful, seven messengers having the seven last plagues, because in these was completed the wrath of God,
8 and filled was the sanctuary with smoke from the glory of God, and from His power, and no one was able to enter into the sanctuary till the seven plagues of the seven messengers may be finished.

And the various forms you can find on the lexicon site:
Genesis 1:1 (YLT)
ἐτέλεσαν — 2x
ἐτέλεσεν — 4x
ἐτελέσθη — 1x
τελεῖ — 1x
τελεῖτε — 2x
τελέσητε — 2x
τελεσθῇ — 6x
τελεσθῆναι — 1x
τελεσθήσεται — 1x
τελεσθῶσιν — 1x
τελέσωσιν — 1x
τελοῦσα — 1x
τετέλεκα — 1x
Τετέλεσται — 1x
τετέλεσται — 1x
So Hebrews, 9 verse 26 clearly associate the crucifixion with the full end of the Age. Thus the "full end of the age" occured in the first century. Sometime around. The crucifixion and the fall of Jerusalem.

Revelation 17 verse 17. Implies that the "sayings of God" must be complete before revelation 19 when the beast and all of its horns are finally defeated by Christianity.

The beast's most obvious role up until revelation 19 is the destruction of Babylon, symbolising first century apostate Jerusalem, and continuing oppression of the same under the quote Unquote 10 horns. For sometime afterwards. Even as Pagan Rome defeated Jewish uprisings in 112 and the one thirties under Bar Kochba.

Hebrews, 9. Verse 27 and following say that Jesus will come a second time. And the context is more consistent with the Great White throne in judgment of Revelation 20 verse 12. then the Christian conquering figure. Of Revelation 19 before the Millennium.
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am quoting from the Greek texts.
Anyone that posts NT verses, I will automatically check the Greek.

Check the Greek on the following and see if you can make it work with your form of preterism.

Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.

.
 
Upvote 0

Pethesedzao

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2018
772
312
67
Bristol
✟24,854.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single

The "PAROUSIA" in Matthew 24

I have heard members on here say that Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are speaking of different timing/events.
I also have heard some say Luke 21 is 70ad, but part/all of Matthew 24 is still future.

Here are the verses from the Jerusalem/Temple discourse.

All 3 mention the Temple

These are the last verses in Matthew 23 preceding the start of Matt 24:

Matthew 23:
37"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets, and stones those who are sent to her! How often I would have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not!
38 Behold, your house is left to you desolate.
39 For I tell you, you will not see me from now on, until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!'" [Luke 13:34-35]


Matthew 24:1
And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.

=======================
The preceding verses 41-44 is also shown in Luke 21:1-4 concerning the poor widow and treasury.

Mark 12:
41Jesus sat down opposite the treasury, and saw how the multitude cast money into the treasury. Many who were rich cast in much. 42A poor widow came, and she cast in two small brass coins, which equal a quadrans coin. 43He called his disciples to himself, and said to them, "Most certainly I tell you, this poor widow gave more than all those who are giving into the treasury, 44for they all gave out of their abundance, but she, out of her poverty, gave all that she had to live on."

Mark 13:1
And He going forth out of the Temple,
one of His Disciples is saying to Him
“Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”

=======================
The preceding verses 1-4 shows the same event poor widow and the treasury Mark 13:41-44

Luke 21:
1He looked up, and saw the rich people who were putting their gifts into the treasury. 2He saw a certain poor widow casting in two small brass coins. 3He said, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow put in more than all of them, 4for all these put in gifts for God from their abundance, but she, out of her poverty, put in all that she had to live on."

5 and of some saying concerning the Temple,
that to goodly stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
Matthew 24 specifically addresses the Tribulation Jews during the final 3.5 yrs
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Check the Greek on the following and see if you can make it work with your form of preterism.
Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.

.
Here ya go. I even did Luke for ya.

There are 2 different Greek words used for those different verses..

Start a thread on it if you want to discuss it, as that is not part of Matthew 24 or Luke 21..........

I did post those on the "this generation" thread:

"THIS GENERATION" in Bible
Ninevites
"THIS GENERATION" in Bible
Queen of South

450.
anistemi an-is'-tay-mee from 303 and 2476;
to stand up (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive):--arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up(-right).
2476. histemi his'-tay-mee a prolonged form of a primary stao stah'-o (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses);
to stand (transitively or intransitively),

Matthew 12:41
`Men Ninevites<3536> shall be standing-up/ana-sthsontai <450> in the judging<2920> with this generation and they shall be condemning<2632> it,
that they repent/reform<3340> into the proclamation<2782> of Jonah
and behold! more of Jonah here.

Luke 11:32
'Men, Ninevites shall be standing-up <450> in the judging<2920> with this generation, and shall be condemning<2632> it,
that they repent/reform<3340> at the proclamation<2782> of Jonah
and behold! more<4119> of Jonah here!
========================
1453. egeiro probably akin to the base of 58
(through the idea of collecting one's faculties);
to waken (transitively or intransitively), i.e. rouse (literally, from sleep, from sitting or lying

Matthew 12:42
A Queen of south shall be being roused/egerqhsetai <1453> in the judging<2920> with this generation and shall be condemning<2632> it.
That she came out of the ends of the land to hear the wisdom<4678> of Solomon
and behold! more<4119> of Solomon here!

Luke 11:31
'A queen of south shall be being roused/egerqhsetai <1453> in the judging with this generation, and shall be condemning them,
that she came from the ends of the land to hear the wisdom of Solomon
and behold! more of Solomon here!
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: mkgal1
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Here ya go. I even did Luke for ya.

There are 2 different Greek words used for those different verses..

Start a thread on it if you want to discuss it, as that is not part of Matthew 24 or Luke 21..........

I did post those on the "this generation" thread:

"THIS GENERATION" in Bible
Ninevites
"THIS GENERATION" in Bible
Queen of South

450.
anistemi an-is'-tay-mee from 303 and 2476;
to stand up (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive):--arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up(-right).
2476. histemi his'-tay-mee a prolonged form of a primary stao stah'-o (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses);
to stand (transitively or intransitively),

Matthew 12:41
`Men Ninevites<3536> shall be standing-up/ana-sthsontai <450> in the judging<2920> with this generation and they shall be condemning<2632> it,
that they repent/reform<3340> into the proclamation<2782> of Jonah
and behold! more of Jonah here.

Luke 11:32
'Men, Ninevites shall be standing-up <450> in the judging<2920> with this generation, and shall be condemning<2632> it,
that they repent/reform<3340> at the proclamation<2782> of Jonah
and behold! more<4119> of Jonah here!
========================
1453. egeiro probably akin to the base of 58
(through the idea of collecting one's faculties);
to waken (transitively or intransitively), i.e. rouse (literally, from sleep, from sitting or lying

Matthew 12:42
A Queen of south shall be being roused/egerqhsetai <1453> in the judging<2920> with this generation and shall be condemning<2632> it.
That she came out of the ends of the land to hear the wisdom<4678> of Solomon
and behold! more<4119> of Solomon here!

Luke 11:31
'A queen of south shall be being roused/egerqhsetai <1453> in the judging with this generation, and shall be condemning them,
that she came from the ends of the land to hear the wisdom of Solomon
and behold! more of Solomon here!

Nice work!

Those of Christ's generation will stand up along with the men of Nineveh, and the queen of the South at the future bodily resurrection and judgment of the dead found below.


Joh 5:27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
Joh 5:29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.



2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:


Rev 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Nice work!

Those of Christ's generation will stand up along with the men of Nineveh, and the queen of the South at the future bodily resurrection and judgment of the dead found below.

.
Thanks. I delve into the Greek and LXX quite a bit.
Not to debate this, but I found the exact same form of the greek word #450 is also used in the "rapture" verse of 1 Thess 4:16

Greek and Hebrew Reader Online

Matthew 12:41
`Men Ninevites<3536> shall be standing-up/ἀναστήσονται <ana-sthsontai 450> in the judging<2920> with this generation.......

1 Thessalonians 4:16
because the Lord/kurioV <2962> himself, in a shout, in chief-messenger's voice/ fwnh <5456>, and in a-trump/salpiggi <4536> of God, shall come down from heaven,
and the dead/nekroi <3498> in Christ shall be standing-up/ἀναστήσονται anasthsontai 450> first.
===============================
Also, using the LXX I found those exact form of the greek words #450 and #1453 are used in the "resurrection" verse of Isaiah 26:19

Matthew 12:41
`Men Ninevites<3536> shall be standing-up/ἀναστήσονται <anasthsontai 450> in the judging<2920> with this generation.......

Matthew 12:42
A Queen of south shall be being roused/ἐγερθήσεται <egerqhsetai 1453> in the judging<2920> with this generation.............

You can view various translations of that verse here:

Isaiah 26:19 biblehub


[LXX] Isaiah 26:19
anasthsontai<450> oi nekroi kai egerqhsontai<1453> oi en toiv mnhmeioiv kai eufranqhsontai oi en th gh
h gar drosov h para sou iama autoiv estin h de gh twn asebwn peseitai

Brenton Septuagint Translation
The dead shall rise, and they that are in the tombs shall be raised, and they that are in the earth shall rejoice:
for the dew from thee is healing to them: but the land of the ungodly shall perish.

New American Standard Bible
Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.
King James Bible
Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
JPS Tanakh 1917
Thy dead shall live, my dead bodies shall arise-- Awake and sing, ye that dwell in the dust-- For Thy dew is as the dew of light, And the earth shall bring to life the shades.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: mkgal1
Upvote 0

Erik Nelson

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 6, 2017
5,118
1,649
46
Utah
✟347,648.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Check the Greek on the following and see if you can make it work with your form of preterism.

Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.

.
well, Greek CRISIS is used in Rev 18:10, 19:2 for the judgement of Babylon in the first century
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.