Why is desiring Heaven so important?

Why is desiring heaven important?

Because hell is...well, hell!

VCR-2000 said:

Alright, I want to discuss this. When I grew up being raised in my church personally and everyone else who is a person of Jesus Christ and his faith, the church enforces, almost brainwashes the idea that not only should we behave in certain "good" ways and we will be blessed eternity and peace from God, but even if we don't "feel" it all the time, they preach that he "wants" us to feel it 24/7 at the same high levels and never have it die.

I'm writing this because while I was growing up I realized that I'm not passionate and fired up about going to Heaven. I never understood why people are so excited to go there. I get that people want to meet Jesus and everyone else who got up there, but what else? A lot of church spirit now is that up there, we are only going to be all brothers and sisters in Christ (all other forms of earthly human relationships have been dissolved) singing "Kumbaya" around an eternal campfire, I don't see the appeal in that.

Why are people for Jesus (and God himself hypothetically) so ingrained with wanting to sell people how "exciting" their own idea of paradise is? Do people not put themselves in other people's shoes anymore? It frustrates me because I decided that Heaven (the one often talked about) doesn't sound that appealing right now. Anyway, since Hell and eternal torment is my only other option...

Click to expand...

1Co 2:9 - But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Heaven will not be boring. We will not all sit on clouds and have harps and sing kumbiya all day in an artificial way.

"Heaven" is actually just Earth. But it's a restored earth. There will be no more death or sufferring. No more poverty, no more sadness, no more worries. Animals won't die, everything will be lush and restored.
Picture your happiest moment you have in nature. Picture your happiest moment with friends. With family. Heaven will be 24/7 moments that are actually better than that. Forever... never ending, pure, genuine and not fake or forced happiness. This is what scripture teaches... this is why Jesus wants everyone to accept him... so they can go to a place where they'll always experience that.

As for your upbringing... I'm not sure which denomination you were brought up in, but "be good and go to heaven" is not a Christian concept. Christianity teaches that you'll never be good enough to go to Heaven... all the good things you do can't earn a ticket to heaven. The only way to go to Heaven is to accept Jesus free gift to you of eternal life. The Bible teaches that Jesus died on the cross to atone for your sins... which basically means that instead of you paying for your sins forever, Jesus takes the punishment for you and suffers and dies in your place. And because he was sinless, he defeated death and rose again 3 days later.
All you have to so is trust Jesus to atone for your sins, past, present and future sins, and you will recieve eternal life and have a guranteed place in heaven forever.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

VCR-2000 said:

Alright, I want to discuss this. When I grew up being raised in my church personally and everyone else who is a person of Jesus Christ and his faith, the church enforces, almost brainwashes the idea that not only should we behave in certain "good" ways and we will be blessed eternity and peace from God, but even if we don't "feel" it all the time, they preach that he "wants" us to feel it 24/7 at the same high levels and never have it die.

I'm writing this because while I was growing up I realized that I'm not passionate and fired up about going to Heaven. I never understood why people are so excited to go there. I get that people want to meet Jesus and everyone else who got up there, but what else? A lot of church spirit now is that up there, we are only going to be all brothers and sisters in Christ (all other forms of earthly human relationships have been dissolved) singing "Kumbaya" around an eternal campfire, I don't see the appeal in that.

Why are people for Jesus (and God himself hypothetically) so ingrained with wanting to sell people how "exciting" their own idea of paradise is? Do people not put themselves in other people's shoes anymore? It frustrates me because I decided that Heaven (the one often talked about) doesn't sound that appealing right now. Anyway, since Hell and eternal torment is my only other option...

Click to expand...

Question: "What will we be doing in Heaven? What will we do in Heaven?"

Answer: In Luke 23:43, Jesus declared, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with me in paradise." The word Jesus used for "paradise" is paradeisos which means "a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, paradise)". Paradeisos is the Greek word taken from the Hebrew word pardes which means "a park: - forest, orchard" (Strong's). Jesus said, "Today you shall be with me "en paradeisos," not "en nephele" which is Greek for “in clouds.” The point is that Jesus picked and used the word for "a park." Not just any park but "the paradise of God" or park of God (Revelation 2:7) which for us will be a place of future happiness. Does this sound like a boring place? When you think of a park, do you think of boredom?

Jesus said, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10). It's interesting to note that Jesus did not say "praise and serve." Even the briefest examination of the word praise in the Bible quickly shows it's a verbal thing and is for the most part singing. Worship, however, is from the heart. Worship manifests itself in praise. Serving God is worship, and Scripture is clear we will serve God in heaven. "His servants will serve Him" (Revelation 22:3).

We are unable to fully serve God in this life due to sin, but in heaven "every curse will no longer be" (Revelation 22:3). We will not be under the curse of sin any longer, so everything we do will be worship in heaven. We will never be motivated by anything other than our love for God. Everything we do will be out of our love for God, untainted by our sin nature.

So what will we do? My favorite thing is to learn. "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor?" (Romans 11:34), "in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Colossians 2:3). God is the "the high and lofty One who inhabits eternity" (Isaiah 57:15). God is bigger than forever, and it will take eternity "to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height, and to know the love of Christ" (Ephesians 3:18-19). In other words, we will never stop learning.

God's Word says we won't have to be in His paradise alone. "I shall fully know even as I also am fully known" (1 Corinthians 13:12). This would seem to indicate that we will not only know our friends and family, we will "fully know" them. In other words, there is no need for secrets in heaven. There is nothing to be ashamed of. There is nothing to hide. We will have eternity to interact with "a great multitude, which no man could number, out of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues" (Revelation 7:9). No wonder heaven will be a place of infinite learning. Just getting to know everyone will take eternity!

Any further anticipation about what we shall do in God's eternal park, heaven, will be far surpassed when "the King shall say to those on His right hand, 'Come, blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world'" (Matthew 25:34). Whatever we will be doing, we can be sure it will be wonderful beyond our imaginations!

www.gotquestions.org/doing-in-Heaven.html

VCR-2000 said:

Alright, I want to discuss this. When I grew up being raised in my church personally and everyone else who is a person of Jesus Christ and his faith, the church enforces, almost brainwashes the idea that not only should we behave in certain "good" ways and we will be blessed eternity and peace from God, but even if we don't "feel" it all the time, they preach that he "wants" us to feel it 24/7 at the same high levels and never have it die.

I'm writing this because while I was growing up I realized that I'm not passionate and fired up about going to Heaven. I never understood why people are so excited to go there. I get that people want to meet Jesus and everyone else who got up there, but what else? A lot of church spirit now is that up there, we are only going to be all brothers and sisters in Christ (all other forms of earthly human relationships have been dissolved) singing "Kumbaya" around an eternal campfire, I don't see the appeal in that.

Why are people for Jesus (and God himself hypothetically) so ingrained with wanting to sell people how "exciting" their own idea of paradise is? Do people not put themselves in other people's shoes anymore? It frustrates me because I decided that Heaven (the one often talked about) doesn't sound that appealing right now. Anyway, since Hell and eternal torment is my only other option...

Click to expand...

One thing that you haven't said that prepares people for heaven - that you have come to the knowledge that you are a hopeless sinner, deserving of hell, and are condemned to going there already. But that Jesus has provided a narrow gate to eternal life and that is through faith in Christ - that He took your sin and condemnation on the cross with Him and gave you His perfect righteousness to make you acceptable to God. He has pointed the way through to the narrow gate as putting your whole dependence on Christ for your salvation and acceptability to God.

If you haven't done this, then you are totally unprepared for Heaven and you will be totally unhappy there. It doesn't matter how strongly you believe in God - if you have not thrown yourself on the grace and mercy of Christ to save you, you will never get through the gates of heaven to find out what it is really like.

VCR-2000 said:

Alright, I want to discuss this. When I grew up being raised in my church personally and everyone else who is a person of Jesus Christ and his faith, the church enforces, almost brainwashes the idea that not only should we behave in certain "good" ways and we will be blessed eternity and peace from God, but even if we don't "feel" it all the time, they preach that he "wants" us to feel it 24/7 at the same high levels and never have it die.

I'm writing this because while I was growing up I realized that I'm not passionate and fired up about going to Heaven. I never understood why people are so excited to go there. I get that people want to meet Jesus and everyone else who got up there, but what else? A lot of church spirit now is that up there, we are only going to be all brothers and sisters in Christ (all other forms of earthly human relationships have been dissolved) singing "Kumbaya" around an eternal campfire, I don't see the appeal in that.

Why are people for Jesus (and God himself hypothetically) so ingrained with wanting to sell people how "exciting" their own idea of paradise is? Do people not put themselves in other people's shoes anymore? It frustrates me because I decided that Heaven (the one often talked about) doesn't sound that appealing right now. Anyway, since Hell and eternal torment is my only other option...

Click to expand...

I think you have a valid criticism of popular religion. It's a criticism I share as well as a Christian.

I'll expand my criticisms even further though:

"the idea that not only should we behave in certain "good" ways and we will be blessed eternity and peace from God, but even if we don't "feel" it all the time, they preach that he "wants" us to feel it 24/7 at the same high levels and never have it die."

There are two things here:

1) That if we behave a certain way then we will be blessed with eternity and peace from God.

I can only speak here as a Lutheran, so that's what I'm going to do. This very notion is, from the Lutheran perspective, completely antithetical to the Christian religion. As we believe that peace with God does not come by being "good", but instead from God's own kindness toward us, this peace He has achieved for us through Jesus. The whole purpose of good works, of seeking to emulate Christ, to live in accordance with God's will for how we ought to be isn't so that, if we tally up enough brownie points we get the prize at the end of the rainbow; it's that God cares about people, God cares about His creation. I should care about my neighbor because my neighbor is another human being who is hungry, thirsty, in need of clothing, medical care, shelter from the environment, and to be treated with dignity, kindness, and respect. It's not about me doing good in order to convince God to let me in through some pearly gates, it's about me serving others in love because people matter. God wants me to be like Him, to love others unconditionally, to be merciful, to be kind, to be forgiving, to be just. My neighbor matters, other people matter, this world and everyone and everything in it matters.

2) That we should feel a certain way all the time.

That's a strange idea. Obviously our feelings are mutable, fickle, and prone to change from moment to moment. Nobody is ever going to feel happy, or feel godly, or feel this or that all the time; and pretending like you do is just madness. To just provide personal details, I suffer from Major Depression and Anxiety Disorder, my feelings are all over the place all the time. A lot of those feelings are completely outside of my control, they are chemical. If I heard a preacher tell me that I should never be anxious or depressed, or that I'm supposed to be happy, or that being a Christian means I'm supposed to feel rainbows and gumdrops all the time then I would laugh in their face and walk away--it's a load of nonsense. Of course we aren't going to feel a certain way all the time, because we are human beings, we are messy, complicated, and most of the time really screwed up. That's just what it means to be a human being in this world. Being a Christian is never going to just make problems go away, and nobody should ever suggest that it does because they are LYING if they do. As a Christian I don't believe in lying about my religion.

I'm not a Christian because it makes me happy all the time, or because I'm all sunshine and roses. I'm a Christian because I have hope that, ultimately, all the pain and awful I see in this world isn't the final word to all existence. That in the end it isn't just all entropy, death, and nothing. My hope that, ultimately, God will heal all things, set all things right, and that life, love, freedom, peace, and justice are the final word for the whole cosmos; and in light of that hope I can live right now, with a cross on my back. It's not about getting a prize in the end, my hope isn't that I get some happy-yippy sunshine prize--my hope is that all the people I know, all my friends, my neighbors, my family members, the people I see hurting on television half a world away, and even my dog aren't just temporary blips against a cosmic background--but will enjoy and share in a future where all things are made whole. That your life isn't transient, that your existence is not going to just come, go, and be forgotten when a hundred generations from now nobody remembers any of us. You matter, both now, and forever. Everyone matters, everything matters. The whole universe matters.

Another thing you said,

"all other forms of earthly human relationships have been dissolved"

That's something I've heard some other Christians say as well, but it's a very bizarre thing to believe. It's certainly not what Christianity has historically taught. Of course our relationships matter. I have no reason to believe any of our relationships in this life simply dissolve or cease to exist or matter. Of course they matter. Because people matter, because everyone matters. The idea that in the hereafter everything that happens/happened "down here" suddenly stops having meaning flies in the face of the central hope of the Christian religion: That God in His love and mercy is redeeming, healing, and restoring the world through Jesus, and we have been invited and called to share in God's life and healing for the world in Jesus. My relationships with others don't have less meaning because I'm a Christian, my hope and religion imbues meaning into my relationships: Because others don't exist for my benefit, but rather I exist for the benefit of others. That loving people matters, helping people matters. In Christ I am invited to live out my hope toward others, in faith and love.

So, yeah, the "Heaven" you describe sounds about as appealing as falling in a frozen lake. I wouldn't want much to do with it either. But I don't believe in that "Heaven".

-CryptoLutheran

Why wouldn't we want to spend eternity with our Creator? That's what heaven is beyond anything else: eternal communion with God, who loves us infinitely more than we can imagine. What's not to love about love?

Heaven is often described as a disembodied state of endless pleasure and recreation somewhere, but this is far from the truth. As someone here said, Heaven is actually Earth.

Little do people know that Scripture speaks of a resurrection of the dead at the second coming of Christ, and that we will literally have new perfect body literally living in a new and real earth where the effects of the fall are completely reversed, where everything is restored and made glorious. There will literally be mountains and valleys, eating and drinking, and so on in that age. This is also what eternal life means, to live in the world in perfect righteous, peace, and joy in God forever.

But, this isn't really what makes heaven "heaven" to be sure. What makes that place longed for is to see God face to face, to spend an eternity fellowshipping, serving, and worshipping him there. He is what makes Heaven what it is.

It will be the best of days everyday, where we will rejoice with our triune God and each other in God forever.

If you love this life, then that afterlife is beyond anything you desire here.

VCR-2000 said:

Alright, I want to discuss this. When I grew up being raised in my church personally and everyone else who is a person of Jesus Christ and his faith, the church enforces, almost brainwashes the idea that not only should we behave in certain "good" ways and we will be blessed eternity and peace from God, but even if we don't "feel" it all the time, they preach that he "wants" us to feel it 24/7 at the same high levels and never have it die.

I'm writing this because while I was growing up I realized that I'm not passionate and fired up about going to Heaven. I never understood why people are so excited to go there. I get that people want to meet Jesus and everyone else who got up there, but what else? A lot of church spirit now is that up there, we are only going to be all brothers and sisters in Christ (all other forms of earthly human relationships have been dissolved) singing "Kumbaya" around an eternal campfire, I don't see the appeal in that.

Why are people for Jesus (and God himself hypothetically) so ingrained with wanting to sell people how "exciting" their own idea of paradise is? Do people not put themselves in other people's shoes anymore? It frustrates me because I decided that Heaven (the one often talked about) doesn't sound that appealing right now. Anyway, since Hell and eternal torment is my only other option...

Click to expand...

It's in every true believer to desire it, God put or puts it there, in us... so it's not really a question as to whether or not we should, or why, we just do, regardless...

Like a moth to a flame...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

It's in every true believer to desire it, God put or puts it there, in us... so it's not really a question as to whether or not we should, or why, we just do, regardless...

Like a moth to a flame...

God Bless!

Click to expand...

The path of that or where that will take you is not going to be all "sunshine and rainbows", so to speak, though, do not be deceived...

And this can make us wonder why we should or shouldn't seek or follow it, or desire it, ect...

God Bless!

VCR-2000 said:

Anyway, since Hell and eternal torment is my only other option...

Click to expand...

In any case, I don't think Jesus means Hell as a threat. Jesus wants love to satisfy us to trust in Him and share eternity with Him and one another. Plus > by the way > I am considering that our own nature determines if we are capable of suffering that torment. Selfish nature burns like smelly smoky rubber, horrible. But in God's love, fire can make us better.

"For our God is a consuming fire." (Hebrews 12:29)

So, there needs to be a place where selfish stuff can stay.

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

So, God does want us to so share with Him, that we are kind and "tenderhearted" and forgiving even as He has forgiven us. This is not boring, by the way, and this lives in Heaven's love which the Holy Spirit shares with us in our hearts > Romans 5:5. So, in His love we are sampling Heaven, already.

And in case you have ever had a special love relationship, this might give you a feel for how you can stay satisfied doing the same thing for who knows how long. Except, in God's love this is so stronger and better and we can be in this love of caring for any and all people, as well as our Father and our Groom Jesus and those who share in this with us.

HTacianas said:

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Click to expand...

(1 Corinthians 2:9)

For starters, God's love in itself is so more and better than all we have seen and can see and imagine. But we have a tendency to seek and think about things that give us the pleasures that we want to feel. But God's love is so nicer and pleasant and personally sharing and caring as family, while we stay ready to adopt any evil person to join us < even caring for evil people is so special in God's love.

CodyFaith said:

Heaven will not be boring.

Click to expand...

Even if you have had mainly what is self-interested love with some number of people or less, was love boring? God is our Creator, and His love is creative . . . in any situation.

AvgJoe said:

The word Jesus used for "paradise" is paradeisos which means "a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, paradise)".

Click to expand...

So, I think, from what I just offered, above, Paradise is not only about feeling good. This is personal, family, creative, and in almighty power to keep us immune against any and all anti-love, cruel things like worry and unforgiveness, depression and frustration, dominating and controlling drives for pleasures, greed, and bitterness and wrath and anger.

Oscarr said:

if you have not thrown yourself on the grace and mercy of Christ to save you, you will never get through the gates of heaven to find out what it is really like.

Click to expand...

And, like I offer, God's love already in our hearts in Jesus is already sharing with us how Heaven is; but we need to grow in this, invest in this so this is reaped. You reap so much more than those little seeds you have sown.

So, among other things > what are you sowing in your thinking? What you now are thinking can be the prayer which God is hearing from you, whether you realize this or not, and God is indeed answering to you.

But we need to become gentle and quiet in His love so we can be in tune with Him. Because, it appears to me from scripture > God who is almighty is quiet . . . not silent!!!! But our noisy stuff inside ourselves keeps us from sensing and enjoying and sharing with God. And, of course, one first needs to trust in Jesus who is the way to our Father. Jesus is a Person, not only a feeling. The way is personal, and not of our own making.

This quote is probably too long, but I could not resist sharing it. From Jonathan Edwards, Heaven, A World of Love:

There are many principles contrary to love, that make this world like a tempestuous sea. Selfishness, and envy, and revenge, and jealousy, and kindred passions keep life on earth in a constant tumult, and make it a scene of confusion and uproar, where no quiet rest is to be enjoyed except in renouncing this world and looking to another. But oh! what rest is there in that world which the God of peace and love fills with his own gracious presence, and in which the Lamb of God lives and reigns, filling it with the brightest and sweetest beams of his love; where there is nothing to disturb or offend, and no being or object to be seen that is not surrounded with perfect amiableness and sweetness; where the saints shall find and enjoy all that they love, and so be perfectly satisfied; where there is no enemy and no enmity; but perfect love in every heart and to every being; where there is perfect harmony among all the inhabitants, no one envying another, but everyone rejoicing in the happiness of every other; where all their love is humble and holy, and perfectly Christian, without the least carnality or impurity; where love is always mutual and reciprocated to the full; where there is no hypocrisy or dissembling, but perfect simplicity and sincerity; where there is no treachery, or unfaithfulness, or inconstancy, or jealousy in any form; where there is no clog or hindrance to the exercises or expressions of love, no imprudence or indecency in expressing it, and no influence of folly or indiscretion in any word or deed; where there is no separation wall, and no misunderstanding or strangeness, but full acquaintance and perfect intimacy in all; where there is no division through different opinions or interests, but where all in that glorious and loving society shall be most nearly and divinely related, and each shall belong to every other, and all shall enjoy each other in perfect prosperity and riches, and honor, without any sickness, or grief, or persecution, or sorrow, or any enemy to molest them, or any busybody to create jealousy or misunderstanding, or mar the perfect, and holy, and blessed peace that reigns in heaven! And all this in the garden of God — in the paradise of love, where everything is filled with love, and everything conspires to promote and kindle it, and keep up its flame, and nothing ever interrupts it, but everything has been fitted by an all-wise God for its full enjoyment under the greatest advantages forever! And all, too, where the beauty of the beloved objects shall never fade, and love shall never grow weary nor decay, but the soul shall more and more rejoice in love forever!

VCR-2000 said:

Alright, I want to discuss this. When I grew up being raised in my church personally and everyone else who is a person of Jesus Christ and his faith, the church enforces, almost brainwashes the idea that not only should we behave in certain "good" ways and we will be blessed eternity and peace from God, but even if we don't "feel" it all the time, they preach that he "wants" us to feel it 24/7 at the same high levels and never have it die.

I'm writing this because while I was growing up I realized that I'm not passionate and fired up about going to Heaven. I never understood why people are so excited to go there. I get that people want to meet Jesus and everyone else who got up there, but what else? A lot of church spirit now is that up there, we are only going to be all brothers and sisters in Christ (all other forms of earthly human relationships have been dissolved) singing "Kumbaya" around an eternal campfire, I don't see the appeal in that.

Why are people for Jesus (and God himself hypothetically) so ingrained with wanting to sell people how "exciting" their own idea of paradise is? Do people not put themselves in other people's shoes anymore? It frustrates me because I decided that Heaven (the one often talked about) doesn't sound that appealing right now. Anyway, since Hell and eternal torment is my only other option...

Click to expand...

Eternal campfire sounds kinda cool, with smores. I like smores.

For me, Heaven showcases itself. Although I believe that we would more be ultimately on the new earth, not necessarily up in the clouds somewhere (which that's up for debate). As a believer who strives to have a relationship with God, the main struggle is being spiritually minded while dealing with our carnal nature (via physical body). So when we are absent from the body, we would be present with God, those barriers will be no more.

Its kinda like a long distance relationship, and then finally being able to get married and move in together and enjoy each other more regularly and intimately, the best way to describe it.

I do get how folly it is when christians try to use Heaven as a bait to lure people in, instead of having it made real on a personal level. If I really don't care to have a relationship with someone, then I'm not gonna really care too much about being in a place with them forever. But to those who love someone, the opportunity that I can be with them for life is more desirable since I now get who im being with, I would eagerly make plans on it, learn more on how to make it happen, etc.

VCR-2000 said:

I hope you're right about that.
Not exactly discounting that Heaven is peaceful bliss. I don't know what to say about it.

Click to expand...

Just gotta have faith man.

I mean, really, what's the alternative? At the end of the day... if you're wrong (which you wouldn't be), but if, wouldn't it have been worth hoping for?

We suffer a lot in this life. Comfort has to come eventually. We just have to believe in that comfort.

VCR-2000 said:

I hope you're right about that.
Not exactly discounting that Heaven is peaceful bliss. I don't know what to say about it.

Click to expand...

From what the Bible tells us about Heaven, and the Bible is the only reliable book that gives any sort of description of it, Heaven is infinitely better than the world we currently live in. The descriptions are given in very symbolic terms because it is so glorious and beyond description that no human being can find words to describe it in reality.

The popular descriptions of Heaven are the fanciful accounts of people who have never read the Bible for a true understanding of what it might be like.

There are areas of our world that are matchless in their beauty, and living there is as close to paradise as many can imagine. If we know the nature and character of God as described in the Bible, then Heaven has to be an infinitely more beautiful paradise far above anything we could imagine.

In the same way, Hell has to be infinitely more terrible and horrible than the worse imaginings of anyone, and one of the worst of them is the knowledge that rejection of Christ, when the steps to salvation in Christ are so simple and straightforward, causes people to miss out on the wonders and beauty Heaven and to suffer the terrors and horrors of Hell for the rest of eternity.

If you think that Hell is preferable to Heaven, then you are of all people the most deceived and miserable. All the more so, because God, through the Bible has shown clearly where the narrow gate to eternal life is and how to go through it. I think that there are millions now who are cursing themselves for not taking advantage of God's offer of salvation and are now waiting in eternity for the final judgment where they are going to be found guilty. And there will be millions more who are now rejecting Christ who will, when they die, will come to the same horrible and terrible knowledge that through an act of ignorant foolishness they have missed out on an eternity of wonder, beauty and joy of eternal life in Heaven.

VCR-2000 said:

Alright, I want to discuss this. When I grew up being raised in my church personally and everyone else who is a person of Jesus Christ and his faith, the church enforces, almost brainwashes the idea that not only should we behave in certain "good" ways and we will be blessed eternity and peace from God, but even if we don't "feel" it all the time, they preach that he "wants" us to feel it 24/7 at the same high levels and never have it die.

I'm writing this because while I was growing up I realized that I'm not passionate and fired up about going to Heaven. I never understood why people are so excited to go there. I get that people want to meet Jesus and everyone else who got up there, but what else? A lot of church spirit now is that up there, we are only going to be all brothers and sisters in Christ (all other forms of earthly human relationships have been dissolved) singing "Kumbaya" around an eternal campfire, I don't see the appeal in that.

Why are people for Jesus (and God himself hypothetically) so ingrained with wanting to sell people how "exciting" their own idea of paradise is? Do people not put themselves in other people's shoes anymore? It frustrates me because I decided that Heaven (the one often talked about) doesn't sound that appealing right now. Anyway, since Hell and eternal torment is my only other option...

Click to expand...

I love this subject. I have a sister who says she can't stand cities, and doesn't really even like being around people --certainly not for eternity! --why would she ever want to be in THAT city then, no matter how nice it is? Partly, I have to note that nothing in heaven is a copy of what we have on earth. God is not made in our image, nor is this passing frame we inhabit what God uses as a pattern for Heaven. In fact, WE ourselves are not very much like what we will be.

At the risk of missing all the beauty of what will be happening up there, I want to mention two things:

One is that we ourselves will be God's dwelling place and that he will be ours --I think that is literal. And related to that --that we who are the literal members of the Bride of Christ will indeed love each other as ourselves, being members of one another.

The other, that will become so plain and natural once we see him as he is, is that he himself is all that is real and good within us. We will see him to be our very sustenance, without which we would cease to exist. The passage that started me studying this was this from Matthew 11: "28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” On its face, it sounds almost ludicrously self-contradictory. He considered his yoke easy and his burden light. I cannot myself imagine a more heavy burden than what was put before him to do --not only to live sinlessly for us, but to take our cosmic treason against himself upon himself, and suffer the very consequences of our treachery in our place. And if we take that upon us, not only will we there find our rest, but we will learn of him.

In Heaven I have every reason to believe we will be so active in learning of him, like a bride desires her husband, (only what a silly picture our experience of such a thing is compared to the real thing!) and that we will be so very hard at work that we would cease to function at all, were He not our sustenance --and there we find our rest. I am referring to work --not toil --it will be pure joy and praise and discovery. This will be our HOME. Finally, the very thing for which we were made!

The whole idea of heaven is internally contradictory. If it doesn't sound exciting to you, then I congratulate you on your perception. A big park where you can bask in the holy sunshine for ever and ever...remarkably childish, only slightly above seventy-two virgins.

InterestedAtheist said:

The whole idea of heaven is internally contradictory.

Click to expand...

InterestedAtheist said:

A big park where you can bask in the holy sunshine for ever and ever...remarkably childish, only slightly above seventy-two virgins.

Click to expand...

Well, we are indeed not here in order to be pleased, ourselves. We are here so we can become pleasing to our Father, like how Jesus is so pleasing to our Heavenly Father.

So, in case anyone thinks he or she is the central reason for Heaven, yes he or she is indeed fooled. And in case one supposes Heaven is mainly for making us happy . . . we are fooled.

However > if we become like Jesus, more and more . . .

"gentle and lowly in heart" (in Matthew 11:28-30) >

we will be pleasing to our Father like Jesus is, because we are like Him gentle and humble.

But Jesus guarantees how this will be good for us, too > "you will find rest for your souls." (same scripture > Matthew 11:28-30)

Because God is very kind and tender in all-loving love. So, if we are like Jesus we become like this, and this kind and tender love in us is good for us, too, not only making us so pleasing to our Father who adopted us out of this world's selfish ways of loving.

Worldly love is selfish, and also weak. Ones in selfish love pick and choose whom they want to use to get the pleasures they prefer; they are so weak and foolish for pleasure, seeking to make themselves feel something nicer than their own selfish nature's mess. And their weakness for the pleasures keep them weak to also suffer in frustration and hurts and unforgiveness about not having their own selfish pleasure heavens they want on this earth.

But Jesus is humble > not conceited; so Jesus left His Heaven in order to come here to rescue us and share His very own with us. Jesus suffered like He did and died for our sins so we don't miss out on real love, and so we don't go to Hell. So, Jesus is not the one with the conceit problem. But there are people who actually think they are too smart and too good for Jesus.

So, Jesus is the One so pleasing to our Father, since He is so unselfish and even on the cross Jesus was so sweetly pleasing to our Father > "a sweet-smelling aroma" (in Ephesians 5:2). And so God wants a bunch of children who also are not conceitedly picking and choosing who is good enough for them to love, but we love any and all, and we keep in ourselves how Jesus so gave Himself for us, even leaving Heaven, though we have been so undeserving of Him.

God wants children who are sweetly pleasing to Him, like how Jesus continued to be, on the cross. This is a point about Heaven, by the way. The love we will live in in Heaven is able to keep us sweetly pleasant even while we are being hated and tortured and murdered for the name of Jesus. The character of God's love makes us immune, then, to how Satanic things would mess with us. We more and more have this character now >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:17-18)

So, we have this almighty immunity in God's almighty power of His love, while also we have His quality of Heavenly pleasant "rest for your souls" which no evil can mess with >

"And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good?" (1 Peter 3:13)

So, from this we can see, even experiencing this now in His almighty love, how in Heaven we will be safe from giving in to selfish stuff and safe from being corrupted by negative and nasty nonsense of Satan's cruelly stupid emotions and drives and feelings. Satan was thrown out of Heaven, like lightning (Luke 10:18), and Jesus used the finger of God to cast out demons from people > God's little pinky was enough!! (Luke 11:20) And in this love, we have this safety from however Satan in this world would corrupt us >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

In God's gentle and quiet love, then, is such almighty power against lusts and unforgiveness and depression and frustration and fear and anxiety which can corrupt people who are living in their selfishness-infected nature. Plus, this gentle and quiet spirit of God's love is so preciously pleasing to Him. So, we are safe and satisfied plus perfectly pleasing to our Father, in His own love, making us like Jesus who is so. And this is a main ingredient, then, of Heaven > how our character is cured to be like Christ > so we are so pleasing to our Father while also so safe > sharing with God, like this.

People can be happy, but not safe from what could happen to them.

People can feel so happy about going to Heaven, but not be pleasing to our Father like Jesus in us has us growing to become, more and more > so we can please Him and love the way He loves >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

So, yes God's love in us now has us succeeding in obeying this. We are being corrected and cured into the nature of Jesus now so that "as He is, so are we in this world." (in 1 John 4:17)

So, this needs to be where our attention is. And while we go through hard things, we need to be submitting to God for how He makes us sweetly pleasing to Him, sensitively sharing with Him, therefore like how Jesus on the cross was "a sweet-smelling aroma" loving any and all of us, having hope for any evil person, at all > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7). This does not mean hoping for your next pleasure, hoping to use someone or fool someone so you can get what you want > this is why so many don't even believe in Heaven, because they are hoping for how they can use and control things and people for themselves > they are anti-Heaven, then. God's love does not only have us trying to use anyone.

Therefore, Heaven is not only an intellectual subject or an imagination game. Our attention, then, needs to be to how we can become in our nature, thanks to how God is able, so we are the way Heaven is in love. This is so we fulfill our destiny in Jesus >

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)

So, yes Heaven is first about how pleased our Father is with His own Son. And so God wants to have many more who are pleasing to Him like Jesus is. So, if we first love God, we first seek His kingdom of how Jesus is so pleasing to Him, and how our Father is able to now change us to be like Jesus, more and more growing in this, partly thanks to how He is able to truly correct us > Hebrews 12:4-11.

And if you will now consider the Sermon on the Mount, what is the first thing Jesus talks about . . . where He could have started with any thing?

How to be.

poor in spirit

merciful

meek

pure in heart

But, of course, this is good for us, too. We living and loving in God's grace now can enjoy how Jesus is, in us, no matter what He has us going through. Nothing nice or horrible could change Jesus from how He is so pleasing and caring and sharing in God's family love; and Jesus growing in us now makes us more and more immune like this while also having compassion and His creativity to do what is loving about any evil >

"Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:21)

So, this is another thing, by the way, about Heaven > God's love is Family caring and sharing love; so in Heaven we are His own family, this personal and intimate with Him and one another. And the Bible has scriptures which clearly tell us to now live in this love and grow in this love . . . so we are ready for this when Jesus returns. Among other scriptures >

"Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;" (Colossians 3:12)

We are "holy" by being like Jesus so pleasing to our Father.

But also we are "beloved" > His own Family!!!

We are also intimate with one another, the way Jesus in us has us sharing by being in His "tender mercies, humility, meekness, longsuffering" which make us able to be stable in love, not in unstable worldly love which can give in to the dictatorship of pleasure drives and then the frustration and pain of losing and not getting self-seeking security and pleasures.

So, be ready for Heaven, trusting God to change us and grow us in this love which makes us like Jesus.

Heaven is not something, then, to procrastinate, but now is our time to prepare in our character and how we are relating in love.