Is a 3rd future Temple needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?

Is a future Temple in Jerusalem needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?


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parousia70

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Firstly, Jerusalem, is not Babylon, Rome is.

Incorrect.
The Harlot Babylon is Jerusalem, the "great city where also our Lord was crucified" (Rev 11:8). She rode on the back of the Beast (alliance with Rome) until the Beast turned against her, made her desolate, and burned her with fire:

"And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire." --Rev 17:16

This speaks of the desolation of Luke 21:20-23, when the Romans turned against Jerusalem and destroyed the "great city" (Rev 11:8).

"By Silvanus, ...I have written you. ...The Church in Babylon ...sends you her greeting, and Mark my son." (I Peter 5:12,13)

"Babylon" was Jerusalem. Jerusalem was where both "Mark" and "Silvanus" lived. (Acts 12:12; 15:22-40) Peter wrote from Jerusalem in about A.D. 65.
 
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David Kent

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ncorrect.
The Harlot Babylon is Jerusalem, the "great city where also our Lord was crucified" (Rev 11:8). She rode on the back of the Beast (alliance with Rome) until the Beast turned against her, made her desolate, and burned her with fire:
Not so, women in Revelation refer to churches. the harlot is the false church, the church of Rome.
Rome is plainly identified with mystery Babylon as she is the city of the seven hills, and has boasted of being such. Our Lord was crucified outside the city walls of Jerusalem but in the Roman Empire, and in the mass He is symbolically crucified repeatedly.
"And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire." --Rev 17:16

This speaks of the desolation of Luke 21:20-23, when the Romans turned agai
#

No it doesn't. It refers to the nations that overthrew the empire turning on the RCC, that happened in AD 70, when the papacy lost the papal states.
"By Silvanus, ...I have written you. ...The Church in Babylon ...sends you her greeting, and Mark my son." (I Peter 5:12,13)

"Babylon" was Jerusalem. Jerusalem was where both "Mark" and "Silvanus" lived. (Acts 12:12; 15:22-40) Peter wrote from Jerusalem in about A.D. 65.
Babylon refers to Rome. The RCC teaches that Peter was in Rome at that time. The RCC church falsely teaches that Peter was pope at that time. He wasn't of coiurse. Linus was the first Bishop of Rome.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Incorrect.
The Harlot Babylon is Jerusalem, the "great city where also our Lord was crucified" (Rev 11:8). She rode on the back of the Beast (alliance with Rome) until the Beast turned against her, made her desolate, and burned her with fire:

"And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire." --Rev 17:16

This speaks of the desolation of Luke 21:20-23, when the Romans turned against Jerusalem and destroyed the "great city" (Rev 11:8).

"By Silvanus, ...I have written you. ...The Church in Babylon ...sends you her greeting, and Mark my son." (I Peter 5:12,13)

"Babylon" was Jerusalem. Jerusalem was where both "Mark" and "Silvanus" lived. (Acts 12:12; 15:22-40) Peter wrote from Jerusalem in about A.D. 65.
:amen: :oldthumbsup: :preach:
Yes! absolutely!.....

That Queen/Harlot/Woman clothed in purple and find linen also harmonizes with this Covenantle parable in Luke 16, showing Abraham/Faith and Moses/Law.

The Rich Man/Judah is the "King" and here is His "Queen"/Jerusalem/Judea:

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:
7 ‘As much as She glorifies Herself and indulges so much, be giving to Her torment and sorrow.
That in her heart She is saying:
'I am sitting a Queen, and a Widow not I am being, and sorrow not no I shall seeing.'

12 Cargo of gold and silver,
and precious stone and pearl
and fine linen and purple, [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:16]

16 and saying,
Woe! woe! the great City, that was having been arrayed with fine linen and purple,[Luke 16:19 Revelation 18:12]

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary


Afterward, speaking primarily to his disciples but with the Pharisees (and probably the crowd) still listening in, Yeshua related the parable of the unjust steward (Luke 16:1-13). The Pharisees, who were "lovers of money" (Luke 16:14), realized that the Messiah was alluding to them with this parable and took offense. They scoffed at Yeshua.
The final part of his response to the derision of the Pharisees and scribes was the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

We'll now examine this parable in detail to grasp exactly what the Messiah was teaching about the kingdom of God:

"The wearing of purple was associated particularly with royalty . . ." (p. 863, "Purple").
In addition, the New Bible Dictionary tells us: "The use of linen in OT times was prescribed for priests (Ex. 28:39).The coat, turban and girdle must be of fine linen." (p. 702, "Linen").

The clothing of the rich man
identifies him symbolically with the people of Israel, chosen by God to be His special people. They were called to be a witness to the nations surrounding them, confirming the blessings available to those who would obey God and keep His laws.

LUKE 16:

19 "There was a certain rich Man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day." [Revelation 18:16]
24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham! have mercy on me! and send Lazarus! that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue;
for I am tormented/pained in this flame.' "
26 " 'And besides all this, between us and ye there is a great gulf fixed,
so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot,
nor can those from there pass to us.' "

29 "Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' "
30 "And he said, 'Nay father Abraham!
but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "
==================
Yeshua uses the last two verses of this parable as an amazing prophecy of his pending resurrection from the dead.
The rich man says that although his brothers may not accept the scriptural evidence for the identity of the Messiah, they will accept the evidence of one who is raised from the dead.

But Abraham answers and plainly tells him that anyone who rejects the Bible's teaching about the Messiah will also refuse to acknowledge the evidence of a miraculous resurrection. This last verse is a sad prophecy about the Jews who, despite God's resurrection of His son from the power of the grave, have failed to recognize Yeshua as the prophesied Messiah.
 
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BABerean2

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I believe the text indicates Jesus' Active participation in the Coming, as He is:
a) One with the Father, and
b) the chief cornerstone the builders rejected that came and fell on them, grinding them to powder.

In Acts chapter 1 the feet of Christ left planet earth and He traveled to heaven.

Did the reverse process happen during 70 AD?


.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Marilyn,

I partially agree and partially disagree.

I agree partially because God restored david's throne by the resurrection of Christ (acts 2:30-31).

I partially disagree because of the context.

Let's stick with the context associated with Acts 3: repenting from sin and turning to the Lord. I would argue this is what is being restored.

Hi Claninja,

Yes, let`s stick with context -

`But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.

Repent therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

and that He may send Jesus Christ who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.` (Acts 3: 18 - 21)


1. Christ would suffer - all the prophets foretold.
2. Repent & be converted - sins blotted out, & times of refreshing come.
3. AND God may send Jesus - whom heaven must receive TILL,
4. The times of restoration of ALL things - spoken of by all the prophets since world began.

So we can see that Peter, by the Holy Spirit is speaking to the people in regard to repentance and refreshing, for them there, and then the Holy Spirit gives revelation that in the future God(the Father) would send Jesus, WHEN?

When the times of restoration of all things, which the holy prophets spoke of, since the world began. So that is the time that God the Father will send Jesus.

So what have the holy prophets spoken of regarding restoration of all things? P.S. I think we need to look further, before David`s throne.

Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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So what have the holy prophets spoken of regarding restoration of all things? P.S. I think we need to look further, before David`s throne.

Luk_1:32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.

.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Firstly, Jerusalem, is not Babylon, Rome is. The daughter of the first Babylon.
Secondly, Romed did not hate Jerusalem, she was very friendly with the Jewish state till the Jews revolted against Rome. Rome was the legal ruler of Judah, after the Jews begged the Romans to take direct rule when Archeleus, the son of Herod became worse than his father. They confirmed that when they told Pilate that they had no king but Caesar.
revelation 11:8

QED
 
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Erik Nelson

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Not so, women in Revelation refer to churches. the harlot is the false church, the church of Rome.
yes and no

the "women" do symbolise religious groups, and the "harlot" in particular does symbolise a false faith group

But the harlot is Babylon is the city where the Lord was crucified is Jerusalem.

Revelation 11:8

QED


Rome is plainly identified with mystery Babylon as she is the city of the seven hills, and has boasted of being such. Our Lord was crucified outside the city walls of Jerusalem but in the Roman Empire, and in the mass He is symbolically crucified repeatedly.
yes and no

as a horse and rider are 2 separate entities

So is the beast and the harlot who rides it

You are conflating and confusing the 2, turning them into a single center like creature. But they are in fact, 2 separate beings the beast and the harlot of Babylon.


Babylon refers to Rome. The RCC teaches that Peter was in Rome at that time. The RCC church falsely teaches that Peter was pope at that time. He wasn't of coiurse. Linus was the first Bishop of Rome.
Clement and Linus were the first consecrated by Peter. While he was alive Saint Peter was always head of the congregation in Rome.
 
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claninja

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Hi Marilyn

1. Christ would suffer - all the prophets foretold.

I agree

2. Repent & be converted - sins blotted out, & times of refreshing come.

I agree

AND God may send Jesus - whom heaven must receive TILL,

I agree

The times of restoration of ALL things - spoken of by all the prophets since world began.

I agree. But this also depends on what "all things" means as well, considering Jesus specifically states John the Baptist (Elijah) restores "all things".

Matthew 17:10-11 “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things.

This is the only other passage in scripture about the restoration of "all things", so it should not be tossed out for this particular discussion. Especially considering John the Baptist is associated with restoring all things through turning the hearts of Israelites back to God, and Peter associates restoring all things in regards to repenting and turning to the Lord.

So we can see that Peter, by the Holy Spirit is speaking to the people in regard to repentance and refreshing,

I agree

and then the Holy Spirit gives revelation that in the future God(the Father) would send Jesus, WHEN?

When the times of restoration of all things, which the holy prophets spoke of, since the world began.

Heaven receives Jesus UNTIL the times of restoration of "all things". And since we know that John the Baptist restores "all things" in order to prepare the way of the Lord, we know the restoration of all things does NOT begin when Jesus returns.

Peter even mentions that the prophets spoke of "these" days. The days of Peter's generation. If it was for a far distant future, "those" days would be more appropriate.

Acts 3:24 And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came after him, also proclaimed these days.

Here we can see the exact process of the restoring work of Christ, which began in the days of Jesus 1st coming:

Titus 3:5-7 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I would argue that this process would be complete, and not starting, at the resurrection, which occurs the 2nd coming of Christ.


So that is the time that God the Father will send Jesus.

I agree, at the restoration of "all things" Jesus would return from heaven.


So what have the holy prophets spoken of regarding restoration of all things?

Eschatological view will typically drive one's interpretation of the what the prophets spoke of regarding the restoration of "all things".

My belief is that the restoration of "all things" is related to the restoration of Jacob from captivity. When reading through the OT, I tend to read with the understand that there are "types" and "anti-types". In other words, the immediate situation the prophet is prophesying about or discussing is the type, and its ultimate fulfillment in Christ is the anti-type.

For example, Jeremiah prophecies that Jacob will be restored from captivity after the 70 years of Babylonian Exile. This is the type and it was fulfilled up returning from 70 years of exile.

Jeremiah 29:10-14 For this is what the LORD says: “When Babylon’s seventy years are complete, I will attend to you and confirm My promise to restore you to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the LORD, and I will restore you from captivity and gather you from all the nations and places to which I have banished you, declares the LORD. I will restore you to the place from which I sent you into exile.”

Jeremiah 30:3 For behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will restore from captivity My people Israel and Judah, declares the LORD. I will restore them to the land I gave to their forefathers, and they will possess it.’

Jeremiah 30:18 I will restore the fortunes of Jacob’s tents and have compassion on his dwellings.

Jeremiah 33:11 For I will restore the land from captivity as in former times, says the LORD

It's anti-type or ultimate fulfillment would be with the coming of Christ, because ALL the promises of God are yes in Christ. Christ freed us from the bondage of sin and drew us to him by his death, resurrection, and ascension. And the spirit was sent to us through Christ to regenerate us and guarantee the promises that are to come: eternal life through the resurrection.

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Romans 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies

Thus I believe the restoration began with Elijah preparing the way, continued through the work of Christs' ministry, continued through the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit, and is consummated at the resurrection through the return of Christ.

P.S. I think we need to look further, before David`s throne

I agree
 
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mkgal1

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So we can see that Peter, by the Holy Spirit is speaking to the people in regard to repentance and refreshing, for them there, and then the Holy Spirit gives revelation that in the future God(the Father) would send Jesus, WHEN?
Acts was written in the "in between time" - after the death and resurrection of Jesus, but BEFORE the destruction of Jerusalem and the old covenant temple system. It's critical to keep that context in mind.

This article - I think - does an excellent job of explaining the context of Acts 3:


In the context we must recognize that Peter is preaching a message most relevant to the Jews of that day: He opens with ‟Ye men of Israel” (Acts 3:12), emphasizing their lineage from ‟Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob” (3:13a). They are the ‟sons of the prophets” and the sons of ‟the covenant” (3:25). These highly favored people were guilty of crucifying the Messiah: ‟God . . . glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, and [you] killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.” ‟Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers” (Acts 3:13b-15, 17).

Keeping this in mind — along with some additional contextual notations to follow — let us now seek to gain the proper understanding of Peter’s statement.

After pointing out their guilt in the crucifixion of Christ, Peter notes God’s sovereign prophetic ordering of the event (Acts 3:18). Then he exhorts these guilty crucifiers of Christ to ‟repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out” (3:19a). In essence, Peter urges: ‟Let them repent, for their vast evil has not frustrated God.” [6] This call to repentance from their sins contextually speaks of their horrible guilt in the crucifixion. With an eye to the coming A.D. 70 judgment, he issues a warning from Moses:And it shall come to pass that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people” (Acts 3:23). This is reminiscent of his previous allusion to the ‟blood, fire, and smoke” threatened upon Jerusalem and his urging of his Jewish auditors tobe saved from this perverse generation” (Acts 2:19-21).

He then adds to this urgent call: ‟so that [7] times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord” (Acts 3:19b). The ‟times of refreshing” holds forth for Jerusalem the promise of ‟a respite from the judgment pronounced by Jesus, as it brought the Ninevites a respite from the judgment pronounced by Jonah.” [8] These times of refreshing speak of the glorious salvation that God mercifully offers them along with the favor of God that would issue forth from it. This refreshing is especially glorious in being contrasted to the horrible wrath under which they lived and which was soon to crash down upon them. ~ RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS (Acts 3:21) (1)

Notes

1. W. E. Blackstone, Jesus Is Coming, p. 47.
2. Charles E. Stevens, in Charles Lee Feinberg, ed., Prophecy and the Seventies (Chicago: Moody, 1971), pp. 102-103.
3. Warren W. Wiersbe, Bible Exposition Commentary, 1:414.
4. Stanley D. Toussaint, “Acts,” in Walvoord and Zuck, Bible Knowledge Commentary, 1:362. Interestingly, Toussaint vigorously argues that this is a re-offer of the kingdom to Israel; Pentecost just as adamantly argues that such a re-offer was impossible until after A.D. 70. Toussaint, “Acts,” p. 361. Pentecost, Things to Come, pp. 469-476 and Pentecost, Thy Kingdom Come, pp. 274-276.
5. Anthony Hoekema, The Bible and the Future, p. 185, cp. p. 282.
6. E. M. Blailock, The Acts of the Apostles (Tyndale) (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1959), p. 63.
7. The KJV “when” is most definitely mistaken, as all exegetes are agreed. The Greek hopos on must be translated “that” or “so that.”
8. F. F. Bruce, The Book of the Acts (NICNT) (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, n.d. [1980]), p. 91n.
 
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mkgal1

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Part two of Restoration of ALL Things (because it's important to know "the rest of the story"):


The passage reads:​

Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. (Acts 3:19–21)

Now as I continue, perhaps the Jews would lament their having destroyed the only One who could bring them divine consolation — a fear much like Peter had encountered before (Acts 2:37). In order to circumvent such, the Apostles sets a promise before them. That promise is that Christ will yet come to them in salvation: ‟and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you” (Acts 3:20 NASV). It is true that He is in heaven physically away from them; in fact, ‟heaven must receive [Him] until the times of restoration of all things” (3:21). Still, there is the promise that God will send Him to them in salvation. [1] Though He is in heaven He is not beyond their reach, for He comes to dwell in those who have faith in Him (John 14:23). As the gospel is preached, the hearers discern the voice of the living Christ (Eph. 2:17).


This understanding of the ‟sending” (apostello) of Jesus in salvation is no more awkward than is the Second Advent view. Neither the wording for the sending of the Son in salvation nor for the sending of the Son in the Second Advent expressly occur in Scripture. Though in the economy of redemption it is more precise to speak of the Father sending the Spirit in the gospel (John 14:26), we must understand that the sending of the Spirit results in the coming (sending) of the Son into the believer (Rom. 8:9). And in the present context, the focus is on what they have done to Christ, who was perfectly subject to God. God foreannounced His incarnation (3:18); Christ was God’s ‟Servant” (3:13, 26), ‟His Christ” (3:18), whom God sent (3:22). Hence the unusual manner of speaking: Christ is being emphasized as One Who is subject to the Father.

This particular sending of Christ does not await His Second Advent. Why would Peter tell the Jews that if they repent today, God will send the Son thousands of years later? The Christ is being presented to them at that very moment. In fact, the exaltation of Christ forever provides for the sending of the Son to lost sinners; this is particularly true for those to whom He is speaking: ‟When God raised up his Servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from his wicked ways” (Acts 3:26 NIV).

Peter continues. Christ must remain in heaven ‟until the times of restoration of all things” (Acts 3:21a). ‟The word ‛until’ denotes that during these times the Lord Jesus will remain in the heavens, having been there ‛received’ upon His ascension, to the right hand of the majesty on high. This is the context. ‛Until,’ according to the lexicon, carries the meaning of, ‛continuedly, fixing attention upon the whole duration. . . .’ The force of ‛until’. . . makes the times of restitution simultaneous with Christ’s mediatorial session in heaven. He will come again not to introduce the restitution predicted by the prophets, but because He shall then have completed it.” [2]

This ‟restoration of all things” has already begun, having been instituted during the ministry of Christ. In fact, Peter informs his auditors of the events begun in their time: ‟Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days (Acts 3:24). This is also clear from Matthew 17:11, where John the Baptist functions as an Elijah introducing the restoration of all things.

The restoration is a reformation that supplants the old order (Heb. 9 -10). It is a process leading tothe regeneration” of the fallen world as a system (John 1:29; 3:17; 4:42), where Christ’s will shall be done in earth (Matt. 6:10), as His kingdom grows and spreads (Matt. 13:31-33; 1 Cor. 15:20-27). It is the fulfillment of all thingswhich God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began” (Acts 3:21), as in Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:1-7; 11:1ff. Acts 3:24-25 demonstrates that ‟these men of Israel who stood listening to Peter were ‛sons of the prophets’ — not in the OT sense of the words which denoted the professional prophetic guild, but in the sense that they were heirs of the promises made by God through the prophets — promises which had found their fulfillment before their very eyes. So, too, they were ‛sons of the covenant’ made by God with Abraham, and that in a special sense, for they had lived to see the day when that covenant came true in Christ:In thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.’” [3]

This fulfillment progressively grows during ‟the times” of the ‟restitution of all things.” ‟The gospel blessings that were to flow from His death and resurrection must spread abroad throughout the world, and then He would return from the right hand of power.” [4] Even rebellious Israel will be re-incorporated into the kingdom (Acts 1:6; Rom. 11). Christ will not return in His Second Advent until this reformation/restoration/regeneration has overwhelmed the earth. ~ RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS (Acts 3:21) (2)

Notes

1. John Lightfoot, Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica, 4:40-41. Cp. G. C. Berkouwer, The Return of Christ, p. 151.

2. Wilmot, pp. 33, 34.

3. F. F. Bruce, The Book of Acts (NICNT), p. 87.

4. Bruce, Acts, p. 85.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Marilyn



I agree



I agree



I agree



I agree. But this also depends on what "all things" means as well, considering Jesus specifically states John the Baptist (Elijah) restores "all things".

Matthew 17:10-11 “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things.

This is the only other passage in scripture about the restoration of "all things", so it should not be tossed out for this particular discussion. Especially considering John the Baptist is associated with restoring all things through turning the hearts of Israelites back to God, and Peter associates restoring all things in regards to repenting and turning to the Lord.



I agree



Heaven receives Jesus UNTIL the times of restoration of "all things". And since we know that John the Baptist restores "all things" in order to prepare the way of the Lord, we know the restoration of all things does NOT begin when Jesus returns.

Peter even mentions that the prophets spoke of "these" days. The days of Peter's generation. If it was for a far distant future, "those" days would be more appropriate.

Acts 3:24 And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came after him, also proclaimed these days.

Here we can see the exact process of the restoring work of Christ, which began in the days of Jesus 1st coming:

Titus 3:5-7 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I would argue that this process would be complete, and not starting, at the resurrection, which occurs the 2nd coming of Christ.




I agree, at the restoration of "all things" Jesus would return from heaven.




Eschatological view will typically drive one's interpretation of the what the prophets spoke of regarding the restoration of "all things".

My belief is that the restoration of "all things" is related to the restoration of Jacob from captivity. When reading through the OT, I tend to read with the understand that there are "types" and "anti-types". In other words, the immediate situation the prophet is prophesying about or discussing is the type, and its ultimate fulfillment in Christ is the anti-type.

For example, Jeremiah prophecies that Jacob will be restored from captivity after the 70 years of Babylonian Exile. This is the type and it was fulfilled up returning from 70 years of exile.

Jeremiah 29:10-14 For this is what the LORD says: “When Babylon’s seventy years are complete, I will attend to you and confirm My promise to restore you to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the LORD, and I will restore you from captivity and gather you from all the nations and places to which I have banished you, declares the LORD. I will restore you to the place from which I sent you into exile.”

Jeremiah 30:3 For behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will restore from captivity My people Israel and Judah, declares the LORD. I will restore them to the land I gave to their forefathers, and they will possess it.’

Jeremiah 30:18 I will restore the fortunes of Jacob’s tents and have compassion on his dwellings.

Jeremiah 33:11 For I will restore the land from captivity as in former times, says the LORD

It's anti-type or ultimate fulfillment would be with the coming of Christ, because ALL the promises of God are yes in Christ. Christ freed us from the bondage of sin and drew us to him by his death, resurrection, and ascension. And the spirit was sent to us through Christ to regenerate us and guarantee the promises that are to come: eternal life through the resurrection.

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Romans 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies

Thus I believe the restoration began with Elijah preparing the way, continued through the work of Christs' ministry, continued through the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit, and is consummated at the resurrection through the return of Christ.



I agree

Hi claninja,

Thank you for such a detailed reply. Glad we agree on so much. Let`s look at what John the Baptist actually restored. Gk. word `apokathisteni,` meaning to reconstitute in health.... We can see that John did this by baptising people calling for repentance and thus preparing them for the Lord to come. I do not see any other restoring that he did, can you?

While the Lord, will bring the restoration of all things, rightful rulership in all realms that He created. Gk. word `apokatastasis,` meaning a restoration of something to its rightful owner. And this we see that the Lord will do as He puts down all rule and authority, step by step. (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

I`ll leave it there to see what you have in answer. Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Luk_1:32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.

.

Hi BABerean,

So true, however there are other rulership positions that need to be restored to their rightful owner, (Jesus) before David`s throne. These are spoken about by the OT prophets.

Marilyn.
 
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Hi BABerean,

So true, however there are other rulership positions that need to be restored to their rightful owner, (Jesus) before David`s throne. These are spoken about by the OT prophets.

Marilyn.

He was already both Lord(Ruler) and Christ(Messiah) on the Day of Pentecost, based on Peter's words below.

Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."


Paul reveals below that the victory was at the cross.

Col 2:15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

.
 
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Thank you for such a detailed reply. Glad we agree on so much. Let`s look at what John the Baptist actually restored. Gk. word `apokathisteni,` meaning to reconstitute in health.... We can see that John did this by baptising people calling for repentance and thus preparing them for the Lord to come. I do not see any other restoring that he did, can you?

I agree, that's the point I was making above. John the Baptist, came in the spirit of Elijah, to restore all things specifically by turning the hearts of Israel back to the Lord through the preaching of repentance.

While the Lord, will bring the restoration of all things, rightful rulership in all realms that He created. Gk. word `apokatastasis,` meaning a restoration of something to its rightful owner. And this we see that the Lord will do as He puts down all rule and authority, step by step. (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

I agree. As I have already stated several times now. I'll repeat it in case you have missed each time:

I believe the restoration began with Elijah preparing the way, continued through the work of Christ's ministry, continued through the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit, and is consummated at the resurrection through the return of Christ.




**Marilyn, WHERE is Jesus UNTIL his enemies are made a footstool?

Acts 2:34-35 For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says: ‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at My right hand, until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”

1 Corinthians 15:25 He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.


 
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mkgal1

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Hi claninja,

Thank you for such a detailed reply. Glad we agree on so much. Let`s look at what John the Baptist actually restored. Gk. word `apokathisteni,` meaning to reconstitute in health.... We can see that John did this by baptising people calling for repentance and thus preparing them for the Lord to come. I do not see any other restoring that he did, can you?

While the Lord, will bring the restoration of all things, rightful rulership in all realms that He created. Gk. word `apokatastasis,` meaning a restoration of something to its rightful owner. And this we see that the Lord will do as He puts down all rule and authority, step by step. (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

I`ll leave it there to see what you have in answer. Marilyn.

Hi mkgal,

Thank you for all those notes, & maybe you would like to read my response to claninja.

Marilyn.

Okay.....*let's * look at what John the Baptizer fulfilled:

"John was to be a restorer of right paths for the people to walk in, so that they would be prepared to receive Christ when He appeared."

Quoting from:
The Coming of Christ and the
Restitution of All Things

John warned his countrymen that the coming of Christ would entail a time of sifting the wheat from the chaff, gathering the righteous into the kingdom of heaven - we believe by martyrdom under Nero and the Jews (II Thess. 2:1; Rev. 14:9-16) - but the wicked and disobedient to everlasting destruction in the wars and calamities that overtook the Jews and Romans in A.D. 66-70 (Lk. 21:21-24; I Thess.5:1, 2; II Thess. 7-10; Rev. 11:1,2; 14:17-20). They were not to trust in their lineal descent from Abraham for salvation, but were warned that true repentance and faith alone make men acceptable.

Since Messiah was to burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire, it is clear that not all received either John or Christ; else wise there would be nothing to burn up. Hence, "restoring all things" does not mean all men would receive either John or Christ, or that earth and the material creation would undergo wondrous regeneration as is sometimes supposed. Rather, it means only that John was to be a restorer of right paths for the people to walk in, so that they would be prepared to receive Christ when he appeared. In fact, this is precisely how Isaiah described the work of John:

"The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." Isa. 40:3

From what we have leaned about John's work of "restoring all things" we may conclude similar things about the identical phrase as used by Peter. When Peter said heaven must receive Christ until the times of the restitution of all things, it would thus seem that he points to the period during which the gospel message was fully revealed and announced; following which Jesus would come in wrath upon his enemies. This is confirmed by Jesus' Olivet Discourse, when he said that the gospel must first be preached in all the world, then the end would come (Matt. 24:14). And that the gospel was preached in the habitable earth within the apostles' life times, we have their own statements as proof (Rom. 10:18; Col. 1:5, 6). Indeed, Jesus said his generation would not pass away until he returned again in judgment upon Jerusalem and the Jews (Matt. 23:34-39; 24:29-34), and told his disciples there would not be time to preach in every city of Israel before he had come (Matt. 20:23). In Acts two, Peter set his own generation as the time in which Christ would return, saying "save yourselves from this untoward generation" (Acts 2:40). Peter's message in Acts 3:19-26, which we have been studying here, repeats the warning, evoking Moses:

"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." Acts 3:22, 23; cf. Deut. 18:15, 19

The "prophet" here, of course, is Christ. "Hearing that prophet" meant obeying the message of Christ by the mouth of his apostles. Since Moses' warning of destruction for those who failed to obey Christ was specifically addressed to the Jews, we are able to identify the terminus of the prophecy by the destruction of the Jewish state in A.D. 66-70. Therefore, the period leading up the "the restitution of all things" began with out-pouring of the Holy Ghost upon the apostles until the complete revelation of the New Testament. ~ The Coming of Christ and the Restitution of All Things
 
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mkgal1

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Marilyn C said:
Marilyn C said:
So what have the holy prophets spoken of regarding restoration of all things? P.S. I think we need to look further, before David`s throne.


Luk_1:32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.

.

Hi BABerean,

So true, however there are other rulership positions that need to be restored to their rightful owner, (Jesus) before David`s throne. These are spoken about by the OT prophets.

Marilyn.
I'm not certain what you're asserting here. You keep bringing up David's throne as if you're referring to something that occurs in the future. I am understanding you correctly? If so.....what are you basing that on? If not.....could you clarify your point?
 
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I agree, that's the point I was making above. John the Baptist, came in the spirit of Elijah, to restore all things specifically by turning the hearts of Israel back to the Lord through the preaching of repentance.



I agree. As I have already stated several times now. I'll repeat it in case you have missed each time:

I believe the restoration began with Elijah preparing the way, continued through the work of Christ's ministry, continued through the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit, and is consummated at the resurrection through the return of Christ.




**Marilyn, WHERE is Jesus UNTIL his enemies are made a footstool?

Acts 2:34-35 For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says: ‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at My right hand, until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”

1 Corinthians 15:25 He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

Hi claninja,

I am appreciating our discussion, thank you. One gets to see from other`s perspective, interesting.

`The Lord (the Father) said to my Lord, (Jesus Christ), "Sit at My right hand till I make your enemies your footstool." The Lord (Father) shall send the rod of your strength out of Zion. Rule in the midst of your enemies!` (Ps. 110: 1 & 2)

So we see that Jesus is at the Father`s right hand until His enemies are His footstool, then the Father say for His son to rule over His enemies, (until they are under His feet, control)

Elijah prepared the way for Israel, however it was not the beginning of restitution that the Old testament prophets spoke of. There was need for rightful rulership before the earthly. The Lord is at the Father`s right hand (interceding) but one day He will have His `own throne`(Rev. 3: 21) (under the Father) where He will begin to rule over His enemies.

Where is that throne? And has there been rulership there before?

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Okay.....*let's * look at what John the Baptizer fulfilled:

"John was to be a restorer of right paths for the people to walk in, so that they would be prepared to receive Christ when He appeared."

Quoting from:
The Coming of Christ and the
Restitution of All Things

John warned his countrymen that the coming of Christ would entail a time of sifting the wheat from the chaff, gathering the righteous into the kingdom of heaven - we believe by martyrdom under Nero and the Jews (II Thess. 2:1; Rev. 14:9-16) - but the wicked and disobedient to everlasting destruction in the wars and calamities that overtook the Jews and Romans in A.D. 66-70 (Lk. 21:21-24; I Thess.5:1, 2; II Thess. 7-10; Rev. 11:1,2; 14:17-20). They were not to trust in their lineal descent from Abraham for salvation, but were warned that true repentance and faith alone make men acceptable.

Since Messiah was to burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire, it is clear that not all received either John or Christ; else wise there would be nothing to burn up. Hence, "restoring all things" does not mean all men would receive either John or Christ, or that earth and the material creation would undergo wondrous regeneration as is sometimes supposed. Rather, it means only that John was to be a restorer of right paths for the people to walk in, so that they would be prepared to receive Christ when he appeared. In fact, this is precisely how Isaiah described the work of John:

"The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." Isa. 40:3

From what we have leaned about John's work of "restoring all things" we may conclude similar things about the identical phrase as used by Peter. When Peter said heaven must receive Christ until the times of the restitution of all things, it would thus seem that he points to the period during which the gospel message was fully revealed and announced; following which Jesus would come in wrath upon his enemies. This is confirmed by Jesus' Olivet Discourse, when he said that the gospel must first be preached in all the world, then the end would come (Matt. 24:14). And that the gospel was preached in the habitable earth within the apostles' life times, we have their own statements as proof (Rom. 10:18; Col. 1:5, 6). Indeed, Jesus said his generation would not pass away until he returned again in judgment upon Jerusalem and the Jews (Matt. 23:34-39; 24:29-34), and told his disciples there would not be time to preach in every city of Israel before he had come (Matt. 20:23). In Acts two, Peter set his own generation as the time in which Christ would return, saying "save yourselves from this untoward generation" (Acts 2:40). Peter's message in Acts 3:19-26, which we have been studying here, repeats the warning, evoking Moses:

"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." Acts 3:22, 23; cf. Deut. 18:15, 19

The "prophet" here, of course, is Christ. "Hearing that prophet" meant obeying the message of Christ by the mouth of his apostles. Since Moses' warning of destruction for those who failed to obey Christ was specifically addressed to the Jews, we are able to identify the terminus of the prophecy by the destruction of the Jewish state in A.D. 66-70. Therefore, the period leading up the "the restitution of all things" began with out-pouring of the Holy Ghost upon the apostles until the complete revelation of the New Testament. ~ The Coming of Christ and the Restitution of All Things

Hi mkgal,

There are other rulership positions to be restored that are not earthly. See my post to claninja.

Marilyn.
 
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