The trinity is foundational, not an option

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Marieke589

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The basis of our belief is under attack by the religion of the Antichrist. We see it everywhere, oneness is growing. People do not believe in the trinity anymore, welcome to the end times.

Who here still believes in the true God, the father, the son and the holy ghost?

In this sermon you see a very upset pastor because the had to throw out oneness heretics out of his church again. People who had pretended to be real believers for years, even were on the payroll of the church were spreading this false doctrine of oneness.

Trinity 101 (Throwing Out Oneness Heretics) by Steven Anderson – IFBTube
 
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ewq1938

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The basis of our belief is under attack by the religion of the Antichrist. We see it everywhere, oneness is growing. People do not believe in the trinity anymore, welcome to the end times.

Who here still believes in the true God, the father, the son and the holy ghost?

I do. :)
 
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The basis of our belief is under attack by the religion of the Antichrist. We see it everywhere, oneness is growing. People do not believe in the trinity anymore, welcome to the end times.

Who here still believes in the true God, the father, the son and the holy ghost?

In this sermon you see a very upset pastor because the had to throw out oneness heretics out of his church again. People who had pretended to be real believers for years, even were on the payroll of the church were spreading this false doctrine of oneness.

Trinity 101 (Throwing Out Oneness Heretics) by Steven Anderson – IFBTube
Anderson teaches heresy now. He says that the Holy Spirit is a different Spirit than the one dwelling inside of Jesus, and a different Spirit than the one dwelling in the Father. He says that there are three spirits, three minds, three wills, three persons.

My problem is not so much with the three persons issue, seeing as that's an analogy used often times to describe the dynamic of the Godhead (three persons, for lack of better terms). However, God is not three separate spirits, that's for certain.

He teaches three gods, not one God made up of three.

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

John 10:29-30 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one."

Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Same spirit.

Beware of Steven Anderson; whereas he used to be a Spirit-filled preacher, his pride has gotten to him and he now teaches heresy when it comes to the Godhead.

Proverbs 16:18 "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."
 
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I denounce the doctrine that states there are three separate distinct co eternal spirits in the Godhead. I denounce the doctrine that states three individual separate wills and minds are in the Godhead. I affirm the doctrine that state there is One indivisible Spirit of God that one God we know as Father because he alone created all things, that One God was manifest in the flesh as the Man Christ Jesus, that One God indwells the believers, we know this as the infilling of the Holy Spirit. One Spirit of God, one mind one will.
 
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Anderson teaches heresy now. He says that the Holy Spirit is a different Spirit than the one dwelling inside of Jesus, and a different Spirit than the one dwelling in the Father. He says that there are three spirits, three minds, three wills, three persons.

My problem is not so much with the three persons issue, seeing as that's an analogy used often times to describe the dynamic of the Godhead (three persons, for lack of better terms). However, God is not three separate spirits, that's for certain.

He teaches three gods, not one God made up of three.

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

John 10:29-30 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one."

Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Same spirit.

Beware of Steven Anderson; whereas he used to be a Spirit-filled preacher, his pride has gotten to him and he now teaches heresy when it comes to the Godhead.

Proverbs 16:18 "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."
Nic you almost sound like a oneness believer.
 
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I believe that the Godhead are three in one, as 1 John 5:7 states. Call me whatever you'd like.
I will call you Nic. Im only stating you used some of the same scriptures they use to defend their position. Your a baptist, I know your not oneness.
 
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I will call you Nic. Im only stating you used some of the same scriptures they use to defend their position. Your a baptist, I know your not oneness.
What do you define as oneness? Are trinitarians threeness?

One cannot speak of the distinction of the Godhead without also speaking of the unity of God. God is one God, one Lord, one Spirit. I do believe that God has one mind and one will toward creation. God is not separated of himself in power, in glory, in authority. The God that created all things is the same God that took on the flesh as a man and died on the cross. The Holy Spirit that indwells us as believers is the same Spirit that the Father and Son have and share.
 
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What do you define as oneness? Are trinitarians threeness?

One cannot speak of the distinction of the Godhead without also speaking of the unity of God. God is one God, one Lord, one Spirit. I do believe that God has one mind and one will toward creation. God is not separated of himself in power, in glory, in authority. The God that created all things is the same God that took on the flesh as a man and died on the cross. The Holy Spirit that indwells us as believers is the same Spirit that the Father and Son have and share.
You may want to ask the creator of the post, they brought up the oneness position, I guess trinitarians may be threeness. I do know the oneness people believe Jesus is the visible image of the Father.
 
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You may want to ask the creator of the post, they brought up the oneness position, I guess trinitarians may be threeness. I do know the oneness people believe Jesus is the visible image of the Father.
The creator of this post follows a man and his skewed views of the Bible, a man that is lifted up with pride above his brethren, and condemns them to hell for disagreeing with him. Trust me, I used to be a follower of the man myself before I found out that I should read the Bible and think for myself with the direction of the Holy Spirit.

As for the oneness vs trinitarian issue the OP brought up, they use a strawman argument and say that people that believe that the triune God is one God, unified in person and spirit, are modalists. They don't understand modalism, or why it's heresy; and as a result of departing from what the Bible teaches, they end up teaching that God has three minds, three wills, three centers of consciousness, which turns out to be a teaching of three separate gods. It's a totally false premise based upon tradition rather than the Bible.

The Bible clearly teaches a distinction within the Godhead, but the Bible also teaches that the Godhead is three in one. You can't talk about the distinction of God without talking about the unity of God.

And Jesus is the visible image of the Father. Colossians 1:13-15 "who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

Not only is Christ the express, visible image of the Father, but Jesus is one with the Father and equal to him.

John 14:8-9 "Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

John 10:29-30 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one."

Isaiah 9:6 says that Jesus is the everlasting Father. Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Oftentimes they will argue and say, 'Well he's only called the everlasting Father, but he's not really the everlasting Father even though this verse says it.' That logic fails, because in the previous breath, it calls him the mighty God. Are they willing to say that Jesus is only called the mighty God, but that he really isn't the mighty God?

If you believe the Bible, you cannot cherry pick what you want and what you don't want from it.
 
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The creator of this post follows a man and his skewed views of the Bible, a man that is lifted up with pride above his brethren, and condemns them to hell for disagreeing with him. Trust me, I used to be a follower of the man myself before I found out that I should read the Bible and think for myself with the direction of the Holy Spirit.

As for the oneness vs trinitarian issue the OP brought up, they use a strawman argument and say that people that believe that the triune God is one God, unified in person and spirit, are modalists. They don't understand modalism, or why it's heresy; and as a result of departing from what the Bible teaches, they end up teaching that God has three minds, three wills, three centers of consciousness, which turns out to be a teaching of three separate gods. It's a totally false premise based upon tradition rather than the Bible.

The Bible clearly teaches a distinction within the Godhead, but the Bible also teaches that the Godhead is three in one. You can't talk about the distinction of God without talking about the unity of God.

And Jesus is the visible image of the Father. Colossians 1:13-15 "who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

Not only is Christ the express, visible image of the Father, but Jesus is one with the Father and equal to him.

John 14:8-9 "Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

John 10:29-30 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one."

Isaiah 9:6 says that Jesus is the everlasting Father. Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Oftentimes they will argue and say, 'Well he's only called the everlasting Father, but he's not really the everlasting Father even though this verse says it.' That logic fails, because in the previous breath, it calls him the mighty God. Are they willing to say that Jesus is only called the mighty God, but that he really isn't the mighty God?

If you believe the Bible, you cannot cherry pick what you want and what you don't want from it.
Im not trying to start a debate but are you saying that Jesus is the Father? based on the scriptures you provided.
 
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Im not trying to start a debate but are you saying that Jesus is the Father? based on the scriptures you provided.
Jesus is equal to the Father. Jesus as the Word was God manifest in the flesh as the Son. Jesus is the same Creator God as the Father. The Bible clearly teaches this.
 
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Jesus is equal to the Father. Jesus as the Word was God manifest in the flesh as the Son. Jesus is the same Creator God as the Father. The Bible clearly teaches this.
OK but could you be a little more clear? according to you previous post is seems you are saying Jesus is the visible image of the Father and Jesus was the everlasting Father. So I want to understand this right, are you saying that Jesus is in fact the Father or is only equal to and separate from the Father according to the scriptures you presented? Again im only asking not differing or debating.
 
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OK but could you be a little more clear? according to you previous post is seems you are saying Jesus is the visible image of the Father and Jesus was the everlasting Father. So I want to understand this right, are you saying that Jesus is in fact the Father or is only equal to and separate from the Father according to the scriptures you presented? Again im only asking not differing or debating.
Like I said before, Jesus is both one with and simultaneously distinct from the Father. He is equal to and called the Father (in Isaiah, and in John), he is the image of the Father, and the same Creator as the Father. But he is God manifest in the flesh; the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24). The Father is not manifest in the flesh, and is therefore not the Son. However, Jesus is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, so the Father is in him, and he in the Father.

Same God, same Spirit, same mind, however.

You cannot talk about the distinction of the Godhead without talking about the unity thereof. Otherwise, you're only telling half the truth.
 
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Like I said before, Jesus is both one with and simultaneously distinct from the Father. He is equal to and called the Father (in Isaiah, and in John), he is the image of the Father, and the same Creator as the Father. But he is God manifest in the flesh; the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24). The Father is not manifest in the flesh, and is therefore not the Son. However, Jesus is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, so the Father is in him, and he in the Father.

Same God, same Spirit, same mind, however.

You cannot talk about the distinction of the Godhead without talking about the unity thereof. Otherwise, you're only telling half the truth.
Question. If the invisible Father were to manifest himself in the flesh and become a real man would this be Jesus?
Could Jesus be identified as the Everlasting Father and not in fact be the Everlasting Father?
Could Jesus be the visible image of the Father and not be the Father?

Thanks for your replies.
 
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Question. If the invisible Father were to manifest himself in the flesh and become a real man would this be Jesus?
I see this question as being more semantical. Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh. God became a man. The Father is God and so is the Son - they are one. So when the Word was made flesh in John 1:14, because the Word was God in John 1:1, God in his fulness was made flesh. One cannot separate the Father from the Word, nor the Word from the Spirit. When you get one, you get all of them. Why? Because, as it is evident, "these three are one."
Could Jesus be identified as the Everlasting Father and not in fact be the Everlasting Father?
Could Jesus be identified as the mighty God and not in fact be the mighty God? I say it's a resounding no. Jesus is fully God, and is fully man. All Christians believe this foundational truth. The Father, who is the Creator must therefore be the same Creator as the Son. Except the distinction rests in the earthly manifestation of the Word as flesh. Like I said, John 4:24 clearly says the Father is a Spirit; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as Jesus did (Luke 24:39); yet Jesus said very clearly that the Father was in him, and he in the Father (John 14:11). The Spirit that the Father is, is the same Spirit of God that moved upon the waters in Genesis 1, and is the same Spirit that Jesus Christ was conceived of in the womb of Mary; it's also the same Spirit that descended as dove upon Jesus after he rose up out of the waters as a witness and testimony of him. The same Spirit of God resides in Jesus as the Spirit of Christ. Same Spirit, same God, same mind.
Could Jesus be the visible image of the Father and not be the Father?
Image implies something that is visible. The invisible God is the Father, who is a Spirit (John 4:24). Jesus said unto Philip, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" If one looks upon a picture of me in a frame, they have seen me. As a picture of me is the image of me (and is me), so is Jesus the image of the Father (and is the Father).
Thanks for your replies.
Happy to reply. Am I making sense, friend?
 
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I see this question as being more semantical. Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh. God became a man. The Father is God and so is the Son - they are one. So when the Word was made flesh in John 1:14, because the Word was God in John 1:1, God in his fulness was made flesh. One cannot separate the Father from the Word, nor the Word from the Spirit. When you get one, you get all of them. Why? Because, as it is evident, "these three are one."

Could Jesus be identified as the mighty God and not in fact be the mighty God? I say it's a resounding no. Jesus is fully God, and is fully man. All Christians believe this foundational truth. The Father, who is the Creator must therefore be the same Creator as the Son. Except the distinction rests in the earthly manifestation of the Word as flesh. Like I said, John 4:24 clearly says the Father is a Spirit; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as Jesus did (Luke 24:39); yet Jesus said very clearly that the Father was in him, and he in the Father (John 14:11). The Spirit that the Father is, is the same Spirit of God that moved upon the waters in Genesis 1, and is the same Spirit that Jesus Christ was conceived of in the womb of Mary; it's also the same Spirit that descended as dove upon Jesus after he rose up out of the waters as a witness and testimony of him. The same Spirit of God resides in Jesus as the Spirit of Christ. Same Spirit, same God, same mind.

Image implies something that is visible. The invisible God is the Father, who is a Spirit (John 4:24). Jesus said unto Philip, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" If one looks upon a picture of me in a frame, they have seen me. As a picture of me is the image of me (and is me), so is Jesus the image of the Father (and is the Father).

Happy to reply. Am I making sense, friend?
You are making perfect sense. What you have stated is the Oneness position of the Godhead.
 
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You are making perfect sense. What you have stated is the Oneness position of the Godhead.
Just FYI, true oneness denies the omnipresence of God. They believe that only the Father can exist at one time and not the Son, nor can the Son exist simultaneously with the Spirit. Which is also called classical modalism: the belief that God can only manifest as one member of the Godhead at a time. I reject that teaching outright and vehemently.

I believe that God is three in one. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are simultaneously present as one God, distinct as record-bearers, but unified. Not "person(s)" plural.

I reject Orthodox Trinitarianism (as the Catholics believe), which states that God is "three persons, one essence." The three persons is not mentioned in the Bible anywhere, and implies separate minds, separate consciousnesses, and separate spirits. At least, insomuch as Steven Anderson teaches, even though Anderson is a baptist.
 
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The basis of our belief is under attack by the religion of the Antichrist. We see it everywhere, oneness is growing. People do not believe in the trinity anymore, welcome to the end times.

Who here still believes in the true God, the father, the son and the holy ghost?

In this sermon you see a very upset pastor because the had to throw out oneness heretics out of his church again. People who had pretended to be real believers for years, even were on the payroll of the church were spreading this false doctrine of oneness.

Trinity 101 (Throwing Out Oneness Heretics) by Steven Anderson – IFBTube
Hey by the way, this is what Anderson used to teach on the Godhead, so I suppose that Anderson is as Antichrist as they come according to you.

 
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