Is a 3rd future Temple needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?

Is a future Temple in Jerusalem needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?


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Marilyn C

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Hi Marylin,

As shown in your above response, it does not say Christ raptures (harpazo) the church prior to the tribulation.


I disagree that the beginning of the restoration of all things would "begin" with the 2nd coming of Christ. For Jesus clearly states that the restoration of all things began with John the Baptist.

mark 9:12-13 He replied, “Elijah does indeed come first, and he restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected? But I tell you that Elijah has indeed come, and they have done to him whatever they wished, just as it is written about him.”

Acts 3:21 whom heaven must receive until the time for the restoration of all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.

Hi claninja,

The `ALL THINGS,` that God`s word says refers to the rulership in all the realms that Christ has made.

For by Him ALL THINGS were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether throne or dominions or principalities or powers. ALL THINGS were created through Him and for Him.`(Col. 1: 16)

John the Baptist never restored all that. However we do read that the Lord will step by step bring all rebellious rulership under His authority, restoring righteous rulership in every realm.

`He puts an end to all rule and authority and power. For He must reign till He has put n end to all authority and power.`(1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Actually God is bringing the Nations together for judgement against the great City/Harlot, 1st century Jerusalem........

Hi LittleLambofJesus,

Good point and also God is bringing the nations down to the valley of Jehoshaphat to judgment. (Joel 3: 2)

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Quoting from The Coming of Christ and the Restitution of all Things:


The term rendered "restitution" in Acts 3:21 is from the Greek verb apokaqisthmi (apokathistemai), Strong's #600: to reconstitute (in health, home or organization): - restore (again). The verb occurs in Matt. 17:11 in connection with John the Baptist:

Hi mkgal,

The `ALL THINGS,` that God`s word says refers to the rulership in all the realms that Christ has made.

For by Him ALL THINGS were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether throne or dominions or principalities or powers. ALL THINGS were created through Him and for Him.`(Col. 1: 16)

John the Baptist never restored all that. However we do read that the Lord will step by step bring all rebellious rulership under His authority, restoring righteous rulership in every realm.

`He puts an end to all rule and authority and power. For He must reign till He has put n end to all authority and power.`(1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

Marilyn.
 
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mkgal1

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The `ALL THINGS,` that God`s word says refers to the rulership in all the realms that Christ has made.

For by Him ALL THINGS were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether throne or dominions or principalities or powers. ALL THINGS were created through Him and for Him.`(Col. 1: 16)

John the Baptist never restored all that. However we do read that the Lord will step by step bring all rebellious rulership under His authority, restoring righteous rulership in every realm.

`He puts an end to all rule and authority and power. For He must reign till He has put n end to all authority and power.`(1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

Marilyn.

Matthew 17:11-13: Jesus replied, “Elijah does indeed come, and he will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, but he wasn't recognized, and they chose to abuse him. And in the same way they will also make the Son of Man suffer." Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them concerning John the Baptist.

1 Corinthians 15:25-26 ~For he must reign till he has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Many of us believe that's the significance of the resurrection. You seem to be overlooking much of what Jesus has done/completed - just as He had promised. We don't need to reserve our joy for a later time - He has already shown Himself as victorious.


THE VICTORY OVER DEATH
By Saint Nikolai Velimirovic

Christ's victory is the only victory in which all humanity can rejoice, from the first-created to the last. Every other victory on earth has divided, and still divides, men from one another. When an earthly king gains the victory over another king, one of them rejoices and the other laments. When a man is victorious over his neighbor, there is singing under one roof and weeping under the other. There is no joyful victory on earth that is not poisoned by malice: the ordinary, earthly victor rejoices both in his laughter and in the tears of his conquered enemy. He does not even notice how evil cuts through joy.

Christ's victory alone is like a sun that sheds bright rays on all that are beneath it. Christ's victory alone fills all the souls of men with invincible joy. It alone is without malice or evil. A mysterious victory, you will say? It is; but it is at the same time revealed to the whole human race, the living and the dead.

A generous victory, you will say? It is, and more than generous. Is not a mother more than generous when she, not just once or twice, saves her children from snakes but, in order to save them for all time, goes bravely into the snakes' very nest and burns them out?

A healing victory, you will say? It is, healing and saving forever and ever. This gentle victory saves men from evil and makes them sinless and immortal. Immortality without sinlessness would mean only the extending of evil's reign, and of that of malice and wickedness, but immortality with sinlessness gives birth to unconfined joy, and makes men the brethren of God's resplendent Angels.

Who would not rejoice in the victory of Christ the Lord? He was not victorious for His own sake, but for ours. His victory did not make Him greater, or more alive, or richer, but it did us. His victory is not selfishness, but love, not grabbing but giving. Earthly conquerors take the victory; Christ is the only Conqueror who brings it. No single earthly conqueror, king or commander desires that his victory be taken from him and given to another; only the Risen Lord offers His victory with both hands to each one of us, and is not angered but rather rejoices when we, by His victory, becomes victors--that is: greater, more alive and richer than we were.

Earthly victories look better when viewed from afar, but uglier and more repulsive when seen close at hand; while, as for Christ's victory, one could not say whence it looks better, from afar or from close at hand. Looking at this victory from afar, we marvel at it as unique in its brightness, purity and saving grace. Looking at it from close at hand, we marvel at it because of the terrible enemies who are overcome by it, and also because of the vast numbers of slaves who have been freed by it.

By His Resurrection, the Lord overcame the two fiercest enemies of human life and dignity: death and sin. These two enemies of the human race were born when the first man sundered himself from God, treading underfoot the commandments about obedience to his Creator. In Paradise, man knew neither death nor sin, neither fear nor shame. For, cleaving to the living God, man could know nothing of death, and, living in perfect obedience to God, could know nothing of sin. Where death is unknown, there is no fear; and where sin is unknown, there is no shame born of sin. As soon as man sinned against his saving obedience to God, both fear and shame came with the sin: man felt himself infinitely far from God, and had a premonition of death's sickle over him. Therefore, when God called to Adam, and asked: "Where art thou?, he said: I heard Thy voice in the garden and was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself" (Genesis 3:9-10). Up till then, God's voice had encouraged, gladdened and vivified Adam, but then, when the sin had been committed, this same voice weakened, terrified and deadened him. Up till then, Adam knew himself to be clad in the immortal vesture of the angels, but he then knew himself deflowered by sin, looted, debased to the level of the animals and reduced to the size of a pygmy.

So, my brethren, you see how terrible is the least sin of disobedience to God...One sin, with lightning-like speed, attracted a second, third, hundredth, thousandth, until man finally became of the beasts, beastly, and of the earth, earthly, in both body and soul. The sinful path on which Adam set out led him to the earth and into it. And so God said: "Dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return" (Genesis 3:19), expressing not only God's judgment but also a further process in man's earthboundness and fragmentation, only just begun but making quick progress.

Adam's descendants, generation after generation, became more and more earthbound and fragmented, sinning with shame and dying with fear and horror. Men hid from God amongst trees, rocks, gold and dust; but the more they hid themselves, the more separated they became form the True God, and the more they forgot Him...The human race had reached the depths of despair when the Heavenly Hero appeared to save it.

This Hero was the Lord Jesus. Eternally sinless and eternally immortal, He passed through the graveyard of the human race, scattering the flowers of immortality as He went. The stench of sin fled from His breath, and the dead were revived at His word. But He, in His love for mankind, took the mountain of sin on Himself, in the same way that He, in His love for mankind, clothed Himself in mortal, human flesh. But human sin was so heavy and terrible that, under its weight, the Son of God Himself went down to the grave.

Blessed a hundredfold be that grave from which a river of immortality for the whole human race burst forth! The Hero went down beneath the grave of Hades, where He toppled Satan's throne and destroyed the breeding-ground of all the wicked plots against the human race. From this grave the Hero rose to the highest heavens, opening up a new path--to the city of the living. He destroyed hell in His might and, in His might, glorified His body and rose from the grave--in His own might, that is indivisible from that of the Father and the Holy Spirit. Meek as a lamb, the gentle Lord went to suffering and death, and mighty as God He endured the suffering and conquered death. His Resurrection is a real event, and is at the same time the prophecy and the image of our resurrection--"for the trumpet shalt sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible" (I Corinthians 15:52).

There are some who will ask: how can it be said that the risen Lord has conquered death, when men still die? They who come into this world through their mother's womb will leave it through death and the grave. This is the rule. Only, death for us who die in Christ is no longer a dark abyss, but is birth into new life and a return to our homeland. The grave is, for us, no longer an eternal darkness but a gateway at which God's resplendent angels await us. For all who are filled with love for the beauteous and Loving Lord, the grave has become only the last obstacle to His presence - and this obstacle is as weak as a spider's web. And so the glorious Apostle Paul cries: "For to me to live is Christ and to die is gain!" (Phil. 1:21).

Come then, all you my brethren who fear death. Come closer to Christ the Risen and the Raiser, and He will free you from death and the fear of death. Come, all of you who live under the shame of your open and secret sins. Draw nearer to the Living Fount that washes and cleanses, and that can make the blackest vessel whiter than snow. Come, all of you who seek health, strength, beauty and joy. Lo, the Risen Christ is the rich Source of them all. He awaits you with compassion and yearning, desiring that no-one be lost...

The Risen Lord has torn down the curtain that divided True Godhead from true humanity, and has show in Himself the greatness and beauty of the one and the other. No man can know the True God except through the Risen Lord Jesus; neither can any man know true man except through Him alone.

Christ is Risen, my brethren!

By His Resurrection, Christ conquered sin and death, destroyed Satan's dark kingdom, freed the enslaved human race and broke the seal on the greatest mysteries of God and man. To Him be glory and praise, together with the Father and the Holy Spirit, the Trinity consubstantial and undivided, now and forever, through all time and all eternity. Amen. [Source: Orthodox Heritage] ~ The Victory Over Death
 
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David Kent

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Paul referred to it as "The temple of God".

How does this building qualify?

It doesn't.
  • 1 Corinthians 3:16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
  • 1 Corinthians 3:17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
  • 2 Corinthians 6:16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
  • 2 Thessalonians 2:4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The Temple of God is the Church.
 
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David Kent

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but on the corner where it joined to the two cloisters of the temple, it had passages down to them both, through which the guard (for there

The tower joined the temple. The Romans kept the High priests vestments there allowing the priests to use them, for the festivals. But later allowed the priests to have control of them.
 
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David Kent

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Jesus made two warnings one you quoted which in 70 Ad the Christians in Jerusalem fled and were saved because they understood that the question raised was about the destruction of the temple, the 2nd coming and the end of the age. The signs Jesus gave in the Olivet discourse 1st are the surrounding of Jerusalem to flee. 2nd when you see the abomination of desolation as Daniel spoke of then let those in Judea flee... These are two separate events. The 1st referring to the time the temple was destroyed as Jesus had predicted. The 2nd to the time of his coming that is the abomination of desolation. The evidence that this is true is Israel is prepared to resume the daily sacrifices again when global leadership enforces a treaty to divide Jerusalem and will provide the return of the temple. This is lining up as we speak so the historical fulfilled idea is greatly challenged by current events.
The two descriptions are of the same event, The AOD was the armies surrounding Jerusalem.
 
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BABerean2

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The tower joined the temple. The Romans kept the High priests vestments there allowing the priests to use them, for the festivals. But later allowed the priests to have control of them.

Josephus said Fort Antonia was connected to the temple with a bridge.

See the link below.


The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia

.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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The two descriptions are of the same event, The AOD was the armies surronding Jerusalem.
The two descriptions are of the same event, The AOD was the armies surronding Jerusalem.
so is Nero the man of sin that 2 Thes speaks of? He is supposed to make himself out to be some sort of God in the temple and is also destroyed at the coming of the LORD. So did the LORD come back then and we missed it?
 
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parousia70

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so is Nero the man of sin that 2 Thes speaks of? He is supposed to make himself out to be some sort of God in the temple
Nope.
That would be the Jewish zealot Manahem who did that.
He was Paul’s “Man of Sin” whom Paul said (and the Thessalonians KNEW) was alive and working at the time he wrote.

So did the LORD come back then and we missed it?

I can guarantee They did NOT miss THIS coming of the Lord:
Matthew 21:40-45
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
 
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BABerean2

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I can guarantee They did NOT miss THIS coming of the Lord:
Matthew 21:40-45
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Did the owner of the vineyard allow the Romans to destroy those wicked men, and their city, in the same way He allowed the Babylonians to destroy it previously?

During that time did the owner of the vineyard's Son remain seated at His Father's right hand?


.
 
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David Kent

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so is Nero the man of sin that 2 Thes speaks of? He is supposed to make himself out to be some sort of God in the temple and is also destroyed at the coming of the LORD. So did the LORD come back then and we missed it?

No Nero was not the man of sin. He was a sinful man as we all are. All Caesars were considered to be divine. Can you give one scripture reference that says that the Man of Sin will be the one who will place the Abomination of Desolation, or even that one person would place it.
 
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David Kent

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Did the owner of the vineyard allow the Romans to destroy those wicked men, and their city, in the same way He allowed the Babylonians to destroy it previously?

Yes

During that time did the owner of the vineyard's Son remain seated at His Father's right hand?

Yes God is omnipresent

 
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Erik Nelson

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Possible interpretation



I agree



Scripture doesn't say the 10 kings each rule for 1 hour as in consecutively (10 hours). Scripture simply states that the 10 horns are 10 kings that rule for 1 hour WITH the beast, so that they have one mind.

Revelation 17:12-13 the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast.

The purpose of the 10 horns giving their authority to the beast in order to have one mind, is divinely planned by God in order to carry out his will: to destroy the woman/great city/Babylon the great.

Revelation 17:16-18 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out HIS purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

As we can see, it is a "single hour" in which judgment falls on the great city/the woman/Babylon. Thus, I would argue this 1 hour is the same as the 1 hour that the 10 horns given their authority to the beast to become one mind.

Revelation 18:10 They will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, “Alas! Alas! You great city,
you mighty city, Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come.”

Revelation 18:19 And they threw dust on their heads as they wept and mourned, crying out,
“Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth!
For in a single hour she has been laid waste.

Right after the woman/great city/Babylon is destroyed, a multitude in heaven rejoice that God has avenged the blood of his servants. Then multitude rejoices that the marriage of Lamb has come and the Bride has been made ready.

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
and of all who have been slain on earth.”

Revelation 19:1-2 After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying out, “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for his judgments are true and just; for he has judged the great prostitute who corrupted the earth with her immorality,
and has avenged on her the blood of his servants.

Revelation 19:7 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready;

Using scripture to interpret scripture, we can see that this event (beast with 10 horns destroying the woman/Babylon/great city) is, in fact, the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. For Jesus stated that 1st century Jerusalem (this generation) would be responsible for all the righteous blood shed. Additionally, Jesus also stated that the wedding feast would occur after the original invited guests, who rejected the invite, were destroyed.

Matthew 23:35-36 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Matthew 22:7-9 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.



In regards to revelation 17 to the first half of 19, I would disagree for reasons stated above.



I disagree. I believe the types are found prior to Christ. Christ is the full embodiment (anti-type) of the types of the OT. I don't believe there is a future "type" of Christ, nor does scripture teach of a future "type" of Christ. Everything prior to Christ was the shadow. Now, Christ is the ever present reality.



Notice transferred is past tense. If you belong to his son, you belong to his kingdom.
Colossian 1:13 has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son.

Thus the time came when the saints were receiving the kingdom to be co heirs with Christ. Receiving is present tense in this passage
Hebrews 12:28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe.

Hebrews is dated as being written just before the Jewish Roman war, as the temple still stood. Thus, it would have been near for the kingdom being taken away from Israel and given to the saints.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.

Daniel 7:26-27 But the court shall sit in judgment,and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end. And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High;



I agree that the kingdom came with Christ. I disagree that it would come in power centuries later, for Jesus specifically states it would come with power during the generation of the 12 disciples

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”
even after David became king it was still sometime before his Kingdom was secure from outside Pagan threats. The Kingdom come is not necessarily the Kingdom come in complete power in security.

Obviously revelation reveals quite sometime between the first century, when you say the Kingdom had already been given to the Saints, and the defeat of the beast and the ensuing Millennium, when the Saints reign over Society for 1000 years.

the beastly Pagan Roman Empire DID hate Babylon, apostate Jerusalem. The Pagan Roman emperors fought and defeated Jerusalem time and time again. From 70aD. To the kittion War of 112. AD. To the bar, Kochba Rebellion? Of 136. AD. When they renamed Jerusalem. Ailia. Capitolina.

Revelation clearly reveals some amount of time passing between the fall of Babylon and the subsequent defeat the beast.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Daniel prophesied of the dominion of the saints in earth, placing it at the coming of Christ following the persecution under Nero (the "little horn"):

"And I beheld, and the same horn made war against the saints, and prevailed against them; until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom…and the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him." Dan. 7:21, 22, 27

Jesus placed the coming of his kingdom "in power" - the time when he put his enemies (the Jews and Romans) beneath his feet and established his dominion over earth - within the disciples' lifetimes:

"Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." Mk. 9:1; cf. Matt. 16:27, 28

Since this dominion would result from Christ's coming, and since he came in wrath upon the Jews and Romans in A.D. 66-70, restoring the kingdom/dominion to Israel naturally occurred at this same time. Restoring the kingdom/dominion therefore was consequent upon the restitution of all things; the one presupposes the other.

The relief Christ would bring to his persecuted church at his coming brings us to the next phrase in Peter's sermon, the "times of refreshing." ~ The Coming of Christ and the Restitution of All Things
Still think that sounds like Emperor Diocletian. He almost prevailed over the church. He destroyed every church building every complete copy of the Bible. And he arrested and or executed every church leader. But after him, the church was triumphant under Constantine and the Council of Nicaea, which means the Council of victory. Afterwhich. Power and Dominion and obedience were given unto the Saints of the church.
 
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claninja

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Hi claninja,

The `ALL THINGS,` that God`s word says refers to the rulership in all the realms that Christ has made.

For by Him ALL THINGS were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether throne or dominions or principalities or powers. ALL THINGS were created through Him and for Him.`(Col. 1: 16)

Hi Marilyn,

I partially agree and partially disagree.

I agree partially because God restored david's throne by the resurrection of Christ (acts 2:30-31).

I partially disagree because of the context.

Let's stick with the context associated with Acts 3: repenting from sin and turning to the Lord. I would argue this is what is being restored.

Peter associates repenting and turning the Lord with THESE DAYS as to what the prophets prophesied about.

Acts 3:18-20 But in this way God has fulfilled what He foretold through all the prophets, saying that His Christ would suffer. Repent, then, and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped away, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus, the Christ, who has been appointed for you

Acts 3:21-22 Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets. For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to Him in everything He tells you.

Acts 3:24-26 Indeed, all the prophets from Samuel on, as many as have spoken, have proclaimed these days. And you are sons of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers, when He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all the families of the earth will be blessed.’ When God raised up His servant, He sent Him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.

John the Baptist (Elijah) is associated with restoring all things by preparing the way for the Lord through turning the hearts of Israel back to God.

Luke 1:16-17 Many of the sons of Israel he will turn back to the Lord their God. And he will go on before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

mark 9:12-13 He replied, “Elijah does indeed come first, and he restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected? But I tell you that Elijah has indeed come, and they have done to him whatever they wished, just as it is written about him.”

John the Baptist never restored all that. However we do read that the Lord will step by step bring all rebellious rulership under His authority, restoring righteous rulership in every realm.

Using scripture to interpret scripture, we can see what Elijah's "restoring all things" means. It doesn't mean restoring rulership or creation, for John the Baptist is merely a man. According to scripture it's clearly a reference to turning the hearts of Israel back to the Lord, and preparing the way for the Lord through the preaching of repentance.

Thus, again, I would argue, the restoration began with John the Baptist preaching repentance and preparing the way for Christ, then continued with Christ preaching the gospel of kingdom and rising from the dead to ascend to heaven, then continue with the holy spirit being sent to believers resulting in regeneration, and is consummated at the return of Christ.

`He puts an end to all rule and authority and power. For He must reign till He has put n end to all authority and power.`(1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

Notice the verb tense for reign is present tense. Thus Christ was presently reigning at the time Paul wrote Corinthians 15. And Jesus would continue to reign while his enemies were being subdued.
 
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parousia70

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Did the owner of the vineyard allow the Romans to destroy those wicked men, and their city, in the same way He allowed the Babylonians to destroy it previously?
"Allow" seems a bit tepid to me.
I'd go with a different word such as "orchestrated", "conducted", "utilized", "directed", "moved", "manifested"... something a bit more intentional than "allowed", for any of those words would better reflect the actual scriptural text indicating it is God himself "coming" and doing the destroying, and not merely "allowing" someone else to do it and merely watching from afar:

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”
41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will [g]render to him the fruits in their seasons.”


During that time did the owner of the vineyard's Son remain seated at His Father's right hand?

I believe the text indicates Jesus' Active participation in the Coming, as He is:
a) One with the Father, and
b) the chief cornerstone the builders rejected that came and fell on them, grinding them to powder.
 
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claninja

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even after David became king it was still sometime before his Kingdom was secure from outside Pagan threats.

I agree. So to in a similar manner (not exactly the same) with Christ. For he ascended to the right hand to receive a kingdom and to reign until his enemies were put under his feet. The last enemy being death.

Luke 19:12 He said therefore, “A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return.

1 Corinthians 15:25-26 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

The Kingdom come is not necessarily the Kingdom come in complete power in security.

Depends on your belief of the kingdom, I suppose.

Jesus clearly states the kingdom of God would come with power during the generation of the 12 disciples, so I believe the words of Christ.

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”


Obviously revelation reveals quite sometime between the first century, when you say the Kingdom had already been given to the Saints, and the defeat of the beast and the ensuing Millennium, when the Saints reign over Society for 1000 years.

I don't view revelation in Chronological order, but as a series of parallel visions.

For example, I would argue, the heavens and earth don't flee twice, but that revelation 6 parallels with revelation 20, just from a different perspective.

Revelation 6:12-14,17 And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The heaven receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place. For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them.

Another example: I would also argue the beast doesn't gather the armies of the earth twice to battle on the great day of the Lord, but that revelation 16 parallels revelation 19, but just from a different perspective.

Revelation 16:13-16 And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs. For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. (“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”) And they assembled them at the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army.

Interestingly enough, in revelation 16, the great city/Babylon (Jerusalem) is destroyed AFTER the beast assembles the armies of the earth at Armageddon. Additionally, revelation 16 also parallels with Revelation 6 in regards to the mountains and islands fleeing on the great day of the Lord.

Revelation 16:19-20 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Babylon the great, to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath. And every island fled away, and no mountains were to be found.

Revelation 6:12-14 And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The heaven receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

Thus, because of revelation 16, I would argue that revelation 19:11 starts a new parallel vision, and is not chronologically after the marriage supper of the lamb.

the beastly Pagan Roman Empire DID hate Babylon, apostate Jerusalem

I agree, but so did the zealots and imudeans, who slaughtered thousands upon thousands of Jews during the Jewish Roman war.

The Pagan Roman emperors fought and defeated Jerusalem time and time again. From 70aD. To the kittion War of 112. AD. To the bar, Kochba Rebellion? Of 136. AD. When they renamed Jerusalem. Ailia. Capitolina.

I agree. however, The temple was only destroyed in 70AD. it was not destroyed in any other war after.

Revelation clearly reveals some amount of time passing between the fall of Babylon and the subsequent defeat the beast.

Not necessarily, for reasons noted above that revelation 19:11 doesn't have to chronologically follow the marriage of the lamb based on revelation 16.
 
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David Kent

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the beastly Pagan Roman Empire DID hate Babylon, apostate Jerusalem. The Pagan Roman emperors fought and defeated Jerusalem time and time again. From 70aD. To the kittion War of 112. AD. To the bar, Kochba Rebellion? Of 136. AD. When they renamed Jerusalem. Ailia. Capitolina.

Firstly, Jerusalem, is not Babylon, Rome is. The daughter of the first Babylon.
Secondly, Romed did not hate Jerusalem, she was very friendly with the Jewish state till the Jews revolted against Rome. Rome was the legal ruler of Judah, after the Jews begged the Romans to take direct rule when Archeleus, the son of Herod became worse than his father. They confirmed that when they told Pilate that they had no king but Caesar.
 
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