Do we have the ability to obey God's Commandments?

redleghunter · Feb 12, 2019

Would you consider the following statement true or false:

"That whatever God commands implies the ability of the one who receives the command to obey it. Man should not have to ask for grace in order to be obedient."

anna ~ grace · Feb 12, 2019

redleghunter said:
Would you consider the following statement true or false:

"That whatever God commands implies the ability of the one who receives the command to obey it. Man should not have to ask for grace in order to be obedient."

It is both true and false. Yes, God expects us to keep His commandments, but we must ask for grace, help, mercy, and strength to do so. We can not do it without Him.

redleghunter · Feb 12, 2019

Gracia Singh said:
It is both true and false. Yes, God expects us to keep His commandments, but we must ask for grace, help, mercy, and strength to do so. We can not do it without Him.

I believe you are Catholic so you would have the belief that we cannot attain living a righteous life without the Grace of God. Meaning without being in Christ we do not have the ability to obey the commands of God. Is the aforementioned sum up your belief and your church?

Tree of Life · Feb 12, 2019

The devil!

Can man obey God's Laws? In one sense yes and in another sense no. It depends on what you mean by "man".

Can man as God created him obey? Yes. In that sense, the Law is not beyond his natural, God-given abilities. God did not command man to fly, for example. Man as God created him is able to love God and love others.

Can fallen man obey God? No. Fallen man is depraved and in need of God's grace in order to obey. This is true even of regenerate, redeemed man. As the Westminster Shorter Catechism puts it in Q82:

Q82. Can anyone perfectly keep the commandments of God?
Since the fall no ordinary man can perfectly keep the commandments of God in this life but breaks them every day in thought, word, and action.

anna ~ grace · Feb 12, 2019

redleghunter said:
I believe you are Catholic so you would have the belief that we cannot attain living a righteous life without the Grace of God. Meaning without being in Christ we do not have the ability to obey the commands of God. Is the aforementioned sum up your belief and your church?

Unbelivers can do good things, too, and may even be better at technically obeying Christ than we are. God has given them a nature, given all of us a nature, which has some sense of right and wrong, and we can either pay attention to that interior alarm bell, or not.

Basically, we make the right call with God's help. Not independent of it, and not without an act of our own will, and consent. He calls, we answer. He holds us up, and we put one foot in front of another. Like a baby learning how to walk. That's how I like to visualize it. I hope that it helps.

Tree of Life · Feb 12, 2019

Gracia Singh said:
Unbelivers can do good things, too, and may even be better at technically obeying Christ than we are. God has given them a nature, given all of us a nature, which has some sense of right and wrong, and we can either pay attention to that interior alarm bell, or not.

Basically, we make the right call with God's help. Not independent of it, and not without an act of our own will, and consent. He calls, we answer. He holds us up, and we put one foot in front of another. Like a baby learning how to walk. That's how I like to visualize it. I hope that it helps.

Does this reflect a pre-fall condition, post-fall condition, or both?

Pethesedzao · Feb 12, 2019

We may have the ability but we cannot possibly on Earth keep them.

Pethesedzao · Feb 12, 2019

Gracia Singh said:
Unbelivers can do good things, too, and may even be better at technically obeying Christ than we are. God has given them a nature, given all of us a nature, which has some sense of right and wrong, and we can either pay attention to that interior alarm bell, or not.

Basically, we make the right call with God's help. Not independent of it, and not without an act of our own will, and consent. He calls, we answer. He holds us up, and we put one foot in front of another. Like a baby learning how to walk. That's how I like to visualize it. I hope that it helps.

God HATES the wicked.

eleos1954 · Feb 12, 2019

redleghunter said:
Would you consider the following statement true or false:

"That whatever God commands implies the ability of the one who receives the command to obey it. Man should not have to ask for grace in order to be obedient."

Do we have the ability to obey God's Commandments? No

Philippians 3

7But whatever was an asset to me I count as loss for the sake of Christ. 8More than that, I count all things as loss compared to the surpassing excellence of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith.

Philippians 1

6 being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will continue to perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Jesus works within the believer over one's lifetime towards perfection ... but complete perfection will not be received until we are changed and become like Him upon His return.

1 John 3

Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.

God Bless.

HTacianas · Feb 12, 2019

redleghunter said:
Would you consider the following statement true or false:

"That whatever God commands implies the ability of the one who receives the command to obey it. Man should not have to ask for grace in order to be obedient."

Sure.

1Jo 5:3 - For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

redleghunter · Feb 12, 2019

eleos1954 said:
Do we have the ability to obey God's Commandments? No

Philippians 3

7But whatever was an asset to me I count as loss for the sake of Christ. 8More than that, I count all things as loss compared to the surpassing excellence of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith.

Philippians 1

6 being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will continue to perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Jesus works within the believer over one's lifetime towards perfection ... but complete perfection will not be received until we are changed and become like Him upon His return.

1 John 3

Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.

God Bless.

That would be a strong argument that we cannot obey God's commands without His Grace. Thank you for the response I agree with you.

redleghunter · Feb 12, 2019

HTacianas said:
Sure.

1Jo 5:3 - For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

So your position is we can obey God's commands with His Grace?

redleghunter · Feb 12, 2019

Tree of Life said:
The devil!

Can man obey God's Laws? In one sense yes and in another sense no. It depends on what you mean by "man".

Can man as God created him obey? Yes. In that sense, the Law is not beyond his natural, God-given abilities. God did not command man to fly, for example. Man as God created him is able to love God and love others.

Can fallen man obey God? No. Fallen man is depraved and in need of God's grace in order to obey. This is true even of regenerate, redeemed man. As the Westminster Shorter Catechism puts it in Q82:

Q82. Can anyone perfectly keep the commandments of God?
Since the fall no ordinary man can perfectly keep the commandments of God in this life but breaks them every day in thought, word, and action.

For the purposes of this thread we speak of 'man' as in mankind the children of Adam and Eve. Therefore, your comments on fallen man would be appropriate. Thank you!

HTacianas · Feb 12, 2019

redleghunter said:
So your position is we can obey God's commands with His Grace?

Yes, that is my position. But then without the grace of God, why would a person want to?

grasping the after wind · Feb 12, 2019

redleghunter said:
Would you consider the following statement true or false:

"That whatever God commands implies the ability of the one who receives the command to obey it. Man should not have to ask for grace in order to be obedient."

I would consider it false. There are some commands that God has given that human beings have the ability to obey i.e. don't eat the fruit of that particular tree or obedience to the letter of the old testament law. However, when Jesus sums up that law by telling us what the spirit of that law demands i.e. love God with all your heart and soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself, it becomes apparent that humans are incapable of accomplishing such things on their own and need grace.

chevyontheriver · Feb 12, 2019

redleghunter said:
Would you consider the following statement true or false:

Not much of Pelagius' theology would be true.

"That whatever God commands implies the ability of the one who receives the command to obey it.

True. But only for about 30 seconds.

Man should not have to ask for grace in order to be obedient."

Quite false.

redleghunter · Feb 12, 2019

HTacianas said:
Yes, that is my position. But then without the grace of God, why would a person want to?

Ah, very good question. Why would one who has not been released from bondage obey God?

So your position would not support the notion that we are born righteous and can attain obedience through our own efforts. Do I have this correctly?

redleghunter · Feb 12, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
There are some commands that God has given that human beings have the ability to obey i.e. don't eat the fruit of that particular tree or obedience to the letter of the old testament law.

The 'ones' given that command to obey not to eat, apparently failed. As to the letter of the Law, is there someone who perfectly followed such in the OT?

grasping the after wind said:
However, when Jesus sums up that law by telling us what the spirit of that law demands i.e. love God with all your heart and soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself, it becomes apparent that humans are incapable of accomplishing such things on their own and need grace.

Do you believe the Grace of God changes our nature to love His commands?

redleghunter · Feb 12, 2019

chevyontheriver said:
Not much of Pelagius' theology would be true.

Most who opposed St Augustine on these doctrinal matters of the nature of the fallen human condition would be wrong IMHO.

chevyontheriver said:
True. But only for about 30 seconds.

That long? ^_^

chevyontheriver said:
Quite false.

Indeed.

redleghunter · Feb 12, 2019

Tree of Life said:
Does this reflect a pre-fall condition, post-fall condition, or both?

Since all have answered that we cannot obey in and of ourselves and require the Grace of God, I suppose what you ask above is the next question (to everyone posting).

Is there any inherent righteousness 'in us' apart from the Grace of God prior to our conversion which seeks out God?

Do we have the ability to obey God's Commandments?

Thank You Jesus!

Newbie

Thank You Jesus!

Hide The Pain

Newbie

Hide The Pain

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

God is Love

Well-Known Member

Thank You Jesus!

Thank You Jesus!

Thank You Jesus!

Well-Known Member

That's grasping after the wind

Well-Known Member

Thank You Jesus!

Thank You Jesus!

Thank You Jesus!

Thank You Jesus!

Similar threads