Kind Advice Only: What do you do when Christians will not discuss Scripture with you?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I'm not suggesting long posting of scripture is inherently bad or good; what I am suggesting is that if people are not responding to your posts in the way that you believe they should respond and it is caused by long posting of scripture, then your long posting of scripture is ineffective and you may need to use a different strategy to get a different result.

Jesus understood this. When he gave his long sermons, he did so at appropriate times and places to get the best results for what he wished to accomplish, and people knew of him well enough by that time that they believed it was worth dropping everything else in their lives to hear what he had to say.

When Jesus argued with the Pharisees and other Jewish leaders, they did not sit down, open up the entire Torah and work their way down through every sentence, discussing each one by one. No, they would ask him about a particular statement of law (usually trying to trap him) and then he would respond to that particular thing.

On an internet *discussion* forum, you are lucky to get 5 minutes of someone's time before they completely tune out, and so perhaps an internet forum would not be the appropriate place and/or medium to give long sermons. Unlike Jesus, most of us don't have large crowds of people following us around to hear what we have to say to them.

Time and place.

Again, you cannot force people to give you their time or attention or behave in a way you believe they should be behaving. You can only change things on your end, and if you aren't getting the results you want, then you only have the power to change your own strategy.

Yes, I agree that we are to give long posts at the appropriate time and places. This is what I believe I do. The majority of my posts are not in excessive length full of just verses. But if a person replies to me, then I will reply to them with the best reply I know how. Sometimes I give short replies, but to not give my best possible reply to a person is to not be effective. Do you consider my posts long in this thread? This should hopefully show you that I do not always post just long walls of text in each and every post I make. They are done on occasion when the situation calls for it.

The situation where people do not respond to me is not just with a long list of verses (done on occasion) but with short quick verses, too. You assumed that people are not replying to me because I was posting long walls of text only when this is not so. People ignore explaining verses even when I give them the verses in bite sized pieces. The way that I handle this is to prayer for them so that God might open their eyes to see where I am coming from. It is to be kind to them in return and love them.

Hopefully this will help you to see where I am coming from.

In any event, may God's goodness be upon you today.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Jason,
Great observations and valid questions.

I am notvsure if I have the answers, but here are a few thoughts

First, most people, as I can tell, have not read the Bible, at least all of it. Many have admitted so much in person to me. And that is understndable, it is over 1000 pages long, would take too much time to read, and sadly, is poorly written, at least compared to modern texts.
Some will not discuss it because perhaps they have not read it.
I could not sit down with you and discuss 50 shades of gray because I have not read it, and only know of it based on what other people have said about it, based on their interpretation of it

Which brings to my second point. It is up for interpretation, and aboutbevery interpretation that can exist, does exist, from pure myth to sola scriptura and everything in between. So some will not discuss it because they do not want to get into a discussion of what it means to them in the face of percieved hostility.

Many do not understand the origins of it. No, it did not fall out of the sky. It was assembled over centuries, by human hands and with human agendas. This can confluct as well.

Finally, and no hate towards me, some of us see it as scripture, in part at least, but not as "Gods word" I HAVE read it from start to finish, and personally I do not like it that much. There are newer and more enlightening books around, though some reference the Bible, and certainly many which are better written. But it does remain an excellent source of reference for what first century Christians believed, or were told to believe.

For myself, scripture is only a small part of the Experience of Christ. There is Reason, Tradition and most important of all, Experience, not of what happened 2000 to 4000 years ago but Christ amongnus now, in our lives today. That is far more exciting and enlightening that reading of someone else's experiences in a book.

I do not have hate towards you if you do not see Scripture as God's Word. For I am commanded by God to love even my enemies. But I would encourage you to check out the many evidences that show that the Bible is divine in origin in my Blogger article here.

Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God

I hope this helps;
And may the Lord's love shine upon you today.
 
Upvote 0

Vicomte13

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
3,655
1,816
Westport, Connecticut
✟93,837.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others

What do you do when Christians will not discuss Scripture with you?

I discuss miracles with them: they prove Jesus is divine and that he interacts with the world still. This then usually launches a fight about Mary, sainthood and trans-substantiation, because all of the demonstrable, scientifically examinable miracles since the First Century fall into those three categories.

Then the Christian, if he isn't Catholic or Orthodox, will object, because Mary, saints and transubstantiation are not part of his religion, to which I will respond "Why not?"

Then HE will resort to the Bible - so HE will start discussing Scripture, and I will say "Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander" - and there we are, in Scripture, where you want to be.

Now, once IN Scripture if, say, you and I were talking, I will only quote Jesus for any proposition I want to make - and that will drive YOU mad (we've spoken before), but I always stay friendly and stick to Jesus, and invite you to as well. So, when it comes to you dealing with ME, I'd say that the easiest thing to do is brush up on your Jesus and just quote HIM: plenty of Scripture there, and we'll be on the same plane.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
??? I was talking about walls of text in a discussion thread, not the Bible. I did not say walls of text in any and every circumstance were wrong.

My posting of a long list of verses is not overly done. I only do so at the appropriate times (i.e At the start of a thread, or to explain a particular belief). I do not continually throw walls of verses at a person in each and every one of my posts. You assume that my use of long walls of texts is not used appropriately. So if I posted a long list of verses in defense that Jesus is God, you would object to such a thing? Or do you only object to a long list of verses for a belief that you do not agree with? See, I find it hard to believe that you would object to a post that shows 160 reasons why Jesus is God. So I would say it is the belief and not the actual way I post that you disagree with.

You said:
You make these tangential replies a lot. What you've written here doesn't apply to my comments to you about "Throwing the Elephant." Paul was not writing in a discussion thread online; the Bereans weren't, either; and man not living by bread alone has nothing at all to do with posting style in discussion threads.

But how is it different? How is writing a letter to believers different than writing to believers online? Are they not both forms of written communication? Is information your enemy? It shouldn't be. Do I post long verses in each of my posts every time I talk to people? No. I only do so as a means to show a person what I believe the Bible says. Yet, somehow you take offense to that. Again, I do not think it is the way that I post, but it is the belief that you disagree with.

And here again you speak to a point I never made. I did not say that someone reading your posts ought to "set aside Scripture as though it means nothing to them." I said only that wall 'o text posts often produce in other posters a disinterest in replying. Whether that is good or not I did not address in my comments. That they don't consider every verse you post and reply to each of them does not mean they don't love God's word. That is a glaring non sequitur. There are any number of other possible reasons why they don't engage you. I've already mentioned some of them in an earlier post.

But you falsely assume that I always post with a long set of verses in each of my posts. There are many times when others do not reply to me with even one or two verses in a short response. So you cannot assume that this is due to the fact that it is because I post a long list of verses on occasion as your excuse as to why people do not reply to me.

You said:
And why is resorting to the original meaning in the language in which the text of the New Testament was written a faulty strategy for getting at the meaning of a word, verse, or passage? It is a basic, widespread and often very useful hermeneutic when studying Scripture.

Of which I am more than happy to explain to others if they have a problem with those verses. If they question the verses that supports my belief, I am more than happy to discuss them in context, cross references, and by using real world examples, etc. Nobody is suggesting that my long list of verses is the final end of the debate. Others have addressed a few verses in my long list of verses before. So you cannot say it is not effective method of communication because others have replied to me via this method. In fact, others have even thanked me in that it helped them for posting such verses.

You said:
It does not follow that because people reject your interpretation of God's word that they are therefore "undoing" the meaning of Scripture. It could be that they understand Scripture better than you do; it could be you are actually mistaken in your understanding; it could be you are both awry in what you think Scripture is saying. And so on.

But they would have to prove that by pointing out the context, cross references, etc.

You said:
Oh, I see. You weren't really looking for advice; you were just creating an opportunity to tell us what you think.

In part, I already had an answer, but I did also ask because I was curious to see what other answers Christians had; Hence, why I started the thread and thanked others for their suggestions, and told them that it was helpful.

Not to be unkind, but it seems very obvious that one should be covering what they share in the various forums on this thread with prayer. Really, that goes without saying, as far as I'm concerned.

Yet, the majority of the answers here did not give this answer that we should pray for them.

You said:
What you think is plainly evident in the reams of Scripture you post often is not. And it is very tedious and time-consuming to have to go through fifteen, twenty, or thirty verses to point this out. The issue, then, isn't just that people don't like to read Scripture but that they don't like having to wade through verse after verse that has been wrongly applied to a point you've made.

Are the verses I provided in my long lists wrongfully applied? If so, then there wouldn't be so many verses that plainly defend a particular belief. If so, then my opponents to my long list of verses should be able to explain those verses using the context, cross references, and by reading that verse plainly. But more times than not, the explanation I get from them on my verses is either:

(a) The English is in error, & it means something totally different in the Greek or
(b) The verse is speaking metaphorically in it's entirety (When this is not the case).
(c) They simply ignore them.
(d) They put forth their own set of pet verses.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I discuss miracles with them: they prove Jesus is divine and that he interacts with the world still. This then usually launches a fight about Mary, sainthood and trans-substantiation, because all of the demonstrable, scientifically examinable miracles since the First Century fall into those three categories.

Then the Christian, if he isn't Catholic or Orthodox, will object, because Mary, saints and transubstantiation are not part of his religion, to which I will respond "Why not?"

Then HE will resort to the Bible - so HE will start discussing Scripture, and I will say "Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander" - and there we are, in Scripture, where you want to be.

Now, once IN Scripture if, say, you and I were talking, I will only quote Jesus for any proposition I want to make - and that will drive YOU mad (we've spoken before), but I always stay friendly and stick to Jesus, and invite you to as well. So, when it comes to you dealing with ME, I'd say that the easiest thing to do is brush up on your Jesus and just quote HIM: plenty of Scripture there, and we'll be on the same plane.

I disagree. I believe the Bible is far more miraculous than any so called miracles that you have proposed here.

Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God
 
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,312
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
What do you do when Christians will not discuss Scripture with you?

I had that exact thing happen yesterday,.

The person was advocating the prayer of Faith in James as something that always works if you have enough faith and are not being selfish about what you are asking. I mentioned that while, I believe James was right on that, there are other issues involved if we talk about people as whole who have lots of things going on (like their calling is and what God is doing in their life to help them prepare for that, that can takes years,even decades), I mentioned about God's working out his plans with Providence and how that can take years, decades, and showed specific areas in the Bible where God took his time answering prayers (Genesis and the start of Exodus are the best examples, but you can find that throughout the Bible) and that prayers can often delayed for a variety of reasons mentioning my own personal struggles and experiences etc. And doing all that the person pretty much blew me off, and I was very detailed showing specific passages etc. and made a very air tight case for what I was saying. And that actually may have been the problem. Because what I was presenting was something more sobering and not some of the upbeat messages that I'm sure the person was use to hearing (Coming from areas of the Charismatic movement and Pentecostalism like the Word of Faith movement)


Unfortunately, people just don't want to see things and there is not a lot you can do about it. People don't want to have their theology shaken, and they got defense mechanisms when it comes to their fears and other desires. It really is the old saying about "leading a horse to water" but not being able to make them drink it.

Now as far as the question of "What you can do about it?" goes: If these are people in your life, then be patient with them, pray for them, don't give up on them etc. But for the internet, don't take things to seriously because this sort of thing is par for the course.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,719
1,472
Cloud 9
✟89,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi Jason,
Why make accusations without any evidence to the contrary?
You are already throwing hammers of accusations at me without really knowing me.

They were sincere questions. They were not accusations. In all (or most?) of my posts I was careful to caveat that this might not be the case for you since I hadn't recalled of engaging you.

I am more than willing to listen to others because I have already done so. But you are just falsely assuming that I don't listen by your accusation (or question). This is not a edifying and loving thing to do to a fellow believer - IMO.

This is the problem with online "debating". A sincere question can sound like an accusation. You asked for advice, and not knowing you, I asked sincere questions.

For your information, I have even learned from my opponents many times

A wall of verses and education often indicates someone who wants to argue. Your reference here to the responder as an "opponent" bears that out. I'm not interested in spending my time debating and opposing; to me that is just clamorous and a waste of time. Others enjoy debating. I don't, and I have no spare time to be drawn into some debate opposing someone on line.

I'm interested in fellowshipping with people who I can exchange a back and forth about what we are learning on our spiritual journeys in a mutually respectful way where we both expect to learn from each other. So this is the main reason why I personally don't engage with posters who have a wall of text or verses.

Are you not trying to educate me?
What makes your experience and education better than mine?
Are we not as believers supposed to edify each other and learn from each other?
Or should we bite and devour one another?

Well, you asked for advice; I gave you my perspective. Did you have any comment on my perspective?

But you should not throw the baby out with the bath water.

From a practical perspective, this is a word I don't use with other adults who have full capacity. I feel it's disrespectful and educating. It also has been banned from my marriage (by mutual consent) with beautiful results. What are your thoughts on this perspective?

From a spiritual perspective, it has been my experience that most 'shoulds' others want to impose on you are often just Pharaseeisms and while they sincerely believe their position is "Biblical", my studies often say otherwise. I've come to believe that my salvation is faith plus nothing of my own works, and all those "shoulds" are often from people who might profess this belief with their mouth but don't really practice as such and want to educate others on their own Pharaseeisms so I can conform to their (imo) twisted application of Scripture. I'm not saying this is you, but that has been my experience, generally, with others.

If you don't feel that salvation is faith + nothing, then of course you are convicted to 'should' yourself somewhat (or a lot, depending on how you take it). If so, that's a conviction between you and the Lord. He will have to either let you finish your journey here on earth under your misimpression, or let me finish my journey here on earth under my misimpression, or work in either your heart or mine so we can see the more correct doctrine. Since I believe in faith + nothing, I don't worry about the other doctrines held by people who do have faith in Jesus Christ and a converted heart.

A verse that became precious to me is the one that states by their fruits you know them. It doesn't say by their doctrines you know them. I feel that if their heart has been converted with a saving faith, the peripheral doctrines are not essential and the Lord will work the doctrines out in their heart what he wants in his time. Some people feel called to get others in line with a better doctrine. I don't feel called to do that. If that is your calling, then that's what you need to do. The risk is coming across as knowing-more-than you in a forum such as this and turning people off. In a forum like this, I think a mutually respectful back and forth, where the other person's points were being responded to without the feeling of being opposed, would be more fruitful. That's the advice I would have for you if you feel this is your calling.

I've been immersed in a journey of recognizing Pharaseeisms being pressed upon me, and learning to fear God rather than man. I adhered to a lot of man's "shoulds" to my detriment until my health was about to break down. My journey from that point, escaping those bonds, has opened my eyes to a lot of filters I used to have, and I've gained a tremendous amount of freedom, truly the liberty in Christ that Paul expounds at great length in Galatians. Having escaped my bonds to the Pharasees within the last five years, I just don't feel called to engage in debate with people 'should'-ing me. It's not where I am in my journey right now. I feel called to minister in other ways, but not in online debates "opposing" a 'should'-er. This might not be you, but many people posting long walls of texts and verses are just trying to educate people about how they need to come into bondage under their twisted "shoulds"

From your doctrinal statement earlier (which I do not fully recall), I'm not sure you are on the same page of faith+ nothing = salvation. I feel that if a person knows the Lord personally, experientially, in your heart, and your heart has been converted but the person has , in my opinion, wrong doctrines, I don't feel a calling to debate and oppose them on those doctrines. Nearly every born again Christian believes something different in his/her doctrines than the next guy, so if we needed all the correct doctrines only one person would probably actually receive salvation. So that's just my perspective on why these doctrinal debates or walls of text don't feel relevant to me and feel exhausting.

Again, think about all those nice, and kind and good Christians out there who have posted helpful resources (i.e. a long list of verses) for a belief that you do agree with. Would you not find such resources helpful?

Only if it's a topic I was interested in studying, and if the person were behaving with a demeanor of mutuality, and not as educator/student or as debate opponents.

Or would you just write the poster off as prideful and ignore the long list of verses (even if it is a belief that you happen to agree with)?

Sometimes people I agree with who engage in the verse/text walls are still doing so in a prideful way. A demeanor strikes me as proud if they are here to enlighten everyone else, engage in debates opposing people and do not expect mutual edification. Again, I'm not saying that's you. You were just asking about why people don't want to engage in a wall of text or verses and I gave you my perspective.
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
My posting of a long list of verses is not overly done.

It only has to be done once to be overdone. I've explained why. Accept it or don't.

I only do so at the appropriate times (i.e At the start of a thread, or to explain a particular belief).

You don't seem to understand that "Throwing the Elephant" stifles discussion. To go through bit-by-bit all that you jam into one huge post takes an enormous amount of time and effort. Who wants to slog through a near-endless post, consuming hours and hours in order to do so? I don't.

You assume that my use of long walls of texts is not used appropriately.

It is such a common tactic used by people to overwhelm any who might dissent that it has been given the name "Throwing the Elephant." I know of no one - except those who like to employ this tactic - who appreciate it.

So if I posted a long list of verses in defense that Jesus is God, you would object to such a thing?

Is it necessary to do so? Could you not make your case with just a few well-chosen verses explicitly stating your point? Yes, you could. But "Throwing the Elephant" is so much more difficult for an opponent to deal with. And marshaling so many verses makes it look like you've got Scripture on your side - until your opponent goes through each one and shows that you don't, which rarely happens since very few care to spend the time and effort necessary to do so. And so, you go away confirmed in your view by the absence of any comprehensive rebuttal of your epic posts. "Throwing the Elephant," then, not only silences any potential critics of your view but makes it seem like you've won your case. Is it any wonder that it is such a popular debate tactic?
Or do you only object to a long list of verses for a belief that you do not agree with?

I only object when those verses are being wrongly applied or wrested to make them fit a particular view.

See, I find it hard to believe that you would object to a post that shows 160 reasons why Jesus is God.

See above.

So I would say it is the content and not the actual way I post that you disagree with.

I told you exactly what I have a problem with. But, like you so often do in your posts, you refuse to hear what is being said to you and work things around 'til they fit what you want to believe.

But how is it different? How is writing a letter to believers different than writing to believers online?

Are you suggesting a letter is identical to a thread post? I hope not. It's obvious to me how one of Paul's letters differs from a post you might make online. For one, he was an apostle writing inspired Scripture to the Early Church. You aren't. For another, Paul's epistles were generally instructive, not written in a give-and-take style, as the posts on a forum thread usually are. Also, the length time it would take for Paul's communications to reach his intended audience required that he put as much into each missive as he could. Long time delays are not usually an issue in an online back-and-forth conversation. Shall I go on?

Are they not both forms of written communication?

Is a lion a housecat? They both have whiskers, four paws and a tail.

Is information your enemy? It shouldn't be.

I think you know full well that it isn't.

Do I post long verses in each of my posts every time I talk to people? No.

Did I say that you did? No. But it is easier to dismiss and or defeat my comments if you overblow them, isn't it? This is another fallacious tactic you often employ in your posts.

I only do so as a means to show a person what I believe the Bible says.

You can do this perfectly well with much smaller posts.

But you falsely assume that I always post with a long set of verses in each of my posts.

See? You create this overblown version of my position and then argue against it as though it is what I actually said. This is called Strawman arguing and is another form of fallacious argument that you often use.

I have never said that you always post with a long set of verses. Nor have I implied it.

Nobody is suggesting that my long list of verses is the final end of the debate.

It is difficult to recognize in what and how you write that you don't feel this way about your perspectives.

You have addressed a few verses in my long list of verses before. So you cannot say it is not effective method of communication because you yourself have replied to such a method.

??? It doesn't follow that because I have bothered to address several dozen verses you've posted that your posting them was an "effective method of communication." In fact, it was very tedious to have to go through them one-by-one and show they didn't fit with your argument.

But they would have to prove that by pointing out the context, cross references, etc.

Yes, but even then, Jason, you remain staunchly unconvinced. You are clearly highly invested in your own point of view and so it is very unlikely that even when someone makes the effort to challenge your thinking, that you will ever see it in any way as flawed. By "prove" what you often seem to mean is "change my mind." But proving something to be in error is not always the same thing as persuading someone who holds to that error that it is, in fact, error. The former can be achieved by basic rules of logic and reason, sound argument, and objective evidence, but the latter is a subjective thing that often resists all proof.

Yet, the majority of the answers here did not give this answer that we should pray for them.

Possibly, as I said, because it is the sort of thing that goes without saying.

Is it wrongly applied? If so, then there wouldn't be so many verses that plainly defend a particular belief.

What you think they defend and what they actually defend has, in my discussions with you, many times turned out to be two different things.

But more times often than not, the verses is either twisted to mean something else by someone say it means something totally different in the Greek, or that the verse is speaking metaphorically in it's entirety.

And if the Greek does alter your preferred meaning? Why is this a problem? It is the original language of the New Testament and as such has an important bearing upon how the NT ought to be understood. As well, if the verse is speaking figuratively, why should it be made to be literal in its meaning? How is forcing a metaphoric verse to be a literal one not twisting Scripture?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
To all who are giving me criticism and who wish to debate with me:

Well, I was looking for friendly Christian advice. I think you are missing what I was getting at because I did not want this to be turned into an endless back and forth type of debate.

At this moment, I have decided to ignore any post in this thread that attempts to criticize me or debate with me in some way (Because it is contrary to my expressed wishes at the onset of this thread). So if you posted a lengthy post to me recently that attempted to criticize me, or so as to debate with me, you have wasted your effort and your recent post will go completely unread.​

In either case, I love you in Jesus Christ (even if we may not agree).

May God's love be upon you all;
And I am wishing nothing but good things to you in Christ Jesus.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I had that exact thing happen yesterday,.

The person was advocating the prayer of Faith in James as something that always works if you have enough faith and are not being selfish about what you are asking. I mentioned that while, I believe James was right on that, there are other issues involved if we talk about people as whole who have lots of things going on (like their calling is and what God is doing in their life to help them prepare for that, that can takes years,even decades), I mentioned about God's working out his plans with Providence and how that can take years, decades, and showed specific areas in the Bible where God took his time answering prayers (Genesis and the start of Exodus are the best examples, but you can find that throughout the Bible) and that prayers can often delayed for a variety of reasons mentioning my own personal struggles and experiences etc. And doing all that the person pretty much blew me off, and I was very detailed showing specific passages etc. and made a very air tight case for what I was saying. And that actually may have been the problem. Because what I was presenting was something more sobering and not some of the upbeat messages that I'm sure the person was use to hearing (Coming from areas of the Charismatic movement and Pentecostalism like the Word of Faith movement)


Unfortunately, people just don't want to see things and there is not a lot you can do about it. People don't want to have their theology shaken, and they got defense mechanisms when it comes to their fears and other desires. It really is the old saying about "leading a horse to water" but not being able to make them drink it.

Now as far as the question of "What you can do about it?" goes: If these are people in your life, then be patient with them, pray for them, don't give up on them etc. But for the internet, don't take things to seriously because this sort of thing is par for the course.

Thank you for your kind response.
I also agree that we should pray for those who are in our life. I believe we should pray for even those on the internet, too.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Vicomte13

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
3,655
1,816
Westport, Connecticut
✟93,837.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I disagree. I believe the Bible is far more miraculous than any so called miracles that you have proposed here.

Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God
As you wish. But your question was about what you do if somebody doesn't want to play the "quote scripture game". I said "talk about miracles" - then he will object and do what you just did: turn to Scripture - and VOILA! You have achieved your objective of getting him to argue using Scripture.

I gave you a roadmap answer to your question.
 
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,719
1,472
Cloud 9
✟89,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

At this moment, I have decided to ignore any post in this thread that attempts to criticize me or debate with me in some way (Because it is contrary to my expressed wishes at the onset of this thread). So if you posted a lengthy post to me recently that attempted to criticize me, or so as to debate with me, you have wasted your effort and your recent post will go completely unread.

Jason, I spent a lot of time drafting a thoughtful reply to your response directed to me, in answer to your request for advice.

Is your comment above saying that you did not and will not read my post?
 
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
Yes, I agree that we are to give long posts at the appropriate time and places. This is what I believe I do. The majority of my posts are not in excessive length full of just verses. But if a person replies to me, then I will reply to them with the best reply I know how. Sometimes I give short replies, but to not give my best possible reply to a person is to not be effective. Do you consider my posts long in this thread? This should hopefully show you that I do not always post just long walls of text in each and every post I make. They are done on occasion when the situation calls for it.

The situation where people do not respond to me is not just with a long list of verses (done on occasion) but with short quick verses, too. You assumed that people are not replying to me because I was posting long walls of text only when this is not so. People ignore explaining verses even when I give them the verses in bite sized pieces. The way that I handle this is to prayer for them so that God might open their eyes to see where I am coming from. It is to be kind to them in return and love them.

Hopefully this will help you to see where I am coming from.

In any event, may God's goodness be upon you today.

Here is what I'm noticing. You have asked for help as to why Christians will not discuss scripture with you. But every time someone gives you an answer as to why you aren't getting the results you want, you respond that you're already doing everything appropriately. The point I'm trying to make is that no matter whether or not you are doing everything appropriately and no matter whether you are right or wrong in how you are going about it, you aren't getting the results you want. So to get the results you want, you must be the one to change your approach.

What is it that you really want? Are you just trying to get people to agree that you are right, or do you want people to discuss scripture with you? If it's the second and it's not happening, then you will need to change.

I do see where you are coming from, but simply understanding where you are coming from isn't getting you results.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
To all who are giving me criticism and who wish to debate with me:

Well, I was looking for friendly Christian advice.

Jason, I'm trying to show you the flaws in your thinking and discussion tactics, not in your perspectives, or in you personally. There are some things I agree with you on entirely. Others, not so much. But, believe it or not, I harbor no ill will toward you at all. I believe you are a brother in Christ and so want to aid you to be as clear a thinker and as effective a communicator as I can. I haven't arrived, of course, either, in my communication style. I can be rather...direct. I certainly don't go in for a lot of sympathetic cooing. But I think I have a fairly good handle on what constitutes good reasoning and effective argument and want to benefit you from this understanding. You may let me be of benefit to you - or you won't. I would, though, urge you to consider the following and see me, not as an enemy, but as a caring - though, perhaps blunt - exhorter:

Proverbs 27:6
6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I asked for Christian friendly advice and not negative criticism. I do not agree with the criticisms being made and so it is just causing strife for no good reason and it looks like just an attack from my point of view. I believe in giving a little more of the carrot than the stick if I attempt to correct or exhort a brother personally. I also believe correction is to be done by those believers I personally know and have already have loved. Just exhorting me without really knowing me is shooting blindly into a forest with the attempt at hitting a deer - IMO.
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Just exhorting me without really knowing me is shooting blindly into a forest - IMO.

I understand you're feeling heavily attacked. But please understand that my criticisms are not of you personally. As you've said, I don't know you. But I am familiar with your posting and argument-making style. And it is to those things that my comments to you in this thread are aimed, not at you personally.
 
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,719
1,472
Cloud 9
✟89,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I asked for Christian friendly advice and not negative criticism.

I felt my post to you was in this vein, but if you don't read it, how will you know? I spent quite a bit of time on it.

I also believe correction is to be done by those believers I personally know and have already have loved.

I didn't feel my post was correcting you and would appreciate it if you would read it. I spent quite a bit of time on it.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I feel that many just feel the need that they have to always be right and they do not care in trying to be nice or kind. I believe we first have to love as a brother before we can give them any kind of correction personally.

If you disagree, that is fine. I am not going to fight with anyone here anymore. You are entitled to your view (even if I do not agree with it).

May the Lord Jesus's love shine upon you all.

full




Note: This does not mean I will not continue debate on certain beliefs generally in the future. That is different because it is not an attack upon any one individual here. However, I will not make the mistake again in asking for any Christian advice here any time soon. I just know I will get negative criticism (Even when I have stated that is against my expressed wishes).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.