A Curiosity

Just The Facts · Feb 12, 2019

Hello All

Every notice How Daniels 2 says there are four Kingdoms Starting with Babylon and the stone(Jesus) destroys the fourth kingdom and sets up God's Kingdom. Later in Daniel 11and 12 Daniel is told about the second and third Kingdoms. But Daniel 11&12 just keep calling him the King of the North right through to Jesus' return So where is the fourth Kingdom? We are told in Daniel 2 Jesus destroys the last Kingdom IE the Fourth Kingdom but in Daniel 11 he destroys the King of the North which never changes from one of the Four Kingdoms that Greece / Alexander's Kingdom breaks into.

The only Possible Answer is that somewhere along the Line the King's of the North morphs from one of the four Kingdoms of Alexander to the Fourth Kingdom that the stone destroys.

mmksparbud · Feb 12, 2019

Just The Facts said:
Hello All

Every notice How Daniels 2 says there are four Kingdoms Starting with Babylon and the stone(Jesus) destroys the fourth kingdom and sets up God's Kingdom. Later in Daniel 11and 12 Daniel is told about the second and third Kingdoms. But Daniel 11&12 just keep calling him the King of the North right through to Jesus' return So where is the fourth Kingdom? We are told in Daniel 2 Jesus destroys the last Kingdom IE the Fourth Kingdom but in Daniel 11 he destroys the King of the North which never changes from one of the Four Kingdoms that Greece / Alexander's Kingdom breaks into.

The only Possible Answer is that somewhere along the Line the King's of the North morphs from one of the four Kingdoms of Alexander to the Fourth Kingdom that the stone destroys.

There was only one world power after Greece---which, interestingly, history also called the Iron kingdom --and was in control at the time of Christ. That is the Roman Empire. There has been no world power since then. And in Daniel 2, the image has 10 toes--mixed of iron and clay. Which would never cleave together--never unite.
Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Rome was not taken over by any one kingdom as the other kingdoms were. Rome was overthrown by 10 barbaric tries. Those 10 were taken down to 7 with the annihilation of 3. Those 7 became the European nations--Germany, France, England, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Portugal---the Heruli, Ostrogoths and the Vandals were all exterminated. Europe has tried to unite ever since. They have never succeeded. Hitler was the last to try. At one point in history, every European country was united in one way---they were all related through marriage--"mingle themselves with the seed of men." Still, they could not become one. They are trying now through Brexit.

Pethesedzao · Feb 12, 2019

Just The Facts said:
Hello All

Every notice How Daniels 2 says there are four Kingdoms Starting with Babylon and the stone(Jesus) destroys the fourth kingdom and sets up God's Kingdom. Later in Daniel 11and 12 Daniel is told about the second and third Kingdoms. But Daniel 11&12 just keep calling him the King of the North right through to Jesus' return So where is the fourth Kingdom? We are told in Daniel 2 Jesus destroys the last Kingdom IE the Fourth Kingdom but in Daniel 11 he destroys the King of the North which never changes from one of the Four Kingdoms that Greece / Alexander's Kingdom breaks into.

The only Possible Answer is that somewhere along the Line the King's of the North morphs from one of the four Kingdoms of Alexander to the Fourth Kingdom that the stone destroys.

The 4th kingdom is the rEUnited Roman Empire.

Douggg · Feb 12, 2019

Just The Facts said:
Hello All

Every notice How Daniels 2 says there are four Kingdoms Starting with Babylon and the stone(Jesus) destroys the fourth kingdom and sets up God's Kingdom. Later in Daniel 11and 12 Daniel is told about the second and third Kingdoms. But Daniel 11&12 just keep calling him the King of the North right through to Jesus' return So where is the fourth Kingdom? We are told in Daniel 2 Jesus destroys the last Kingdom IE the Fourth Kingdom but in Daniel 11 he destroys the King of the North which never changes from one of the Four Kingdoms that Greece / Alexander's Kingdom breaks into.

The only Possible Answer is that somewhere along the Line the King's of the North morphs from one of the four Kingdoms of Alexander to the Fourth Kingdom that the stone destroys.

Daniel 2 is four kingdoms according to elements of the earth.
Daniel 7 is four kingdoms and four kings according to beasts,
Daniel 11 is four kingdoms according to the compass north, south, east, west from Jerusalem

gold - lion = Babylonian kingdom (Nebuchadnezzar)
silver - bear = Medes Persian kingdom (Cyrus)
brass - leopard = Greek kingdom (Alexander)
iron, iron with clay - horrible beast = Roman kingdom (little horn, beast person)

End times Roman kingdom - the EU.

Daniel 11
historic - Egypt, king of the south kingdom
Seleucids, king of the north kingdom

end times - king of the west kingdom, the beast kingdom, the EU and allies
king of the north, Russia and allies
king of the south, Aftrican nations
king of the east, China and allies

vinsight4u · Feb 12, 2019

vinsight4u · Feb 12, 2019

vinsight4u · Feb 12, 2019

Just The Facts · Feb 12, 2019

Hi Doug

When does the King of the North Become Russia at what verse is Daniel does it Go from Seleucid Kingdom to Russia.

I do not agree with this understanding at all. Russia never occupied the Territory Known as the King of the North, and there is no king of the west. I think you are denying the Obvious because you need to get Russia who you believe to be Gog, into this picture.

The belief that Gog comes on Jerusalem twice IE first Ezekiel 38 and then again Rev 20 is folly. Ezekiel 38 and Rev 20 Gog are the same event. Which means it is after the second Advent and thus more than 1,000 years away. If you go back and read Ezekiel 37 and 38 as one continuous prophecy you will see that Gog (ez 38)is after the first resurrection. The whole Hal Lindsay and others Gog is Russia doctrine is just not based on any real evidence just hysteria of the times, projected onto biblical prophecy.

Hi vinsight

Many moons since we have talked. I hope you are well. I see you are still on to the rebuilt Babylon thing. I understand why you believe this especially since this is part of the Territory of the original King of the North. However it was never the Fourth Kingdom just one of the quarters of the third kingdom.

Hi Pethesedzao

So do you believe it was Rome and the deadly head wound in Rv 13 is the Fall of Pagan Rome reborn as The Holy Roman Empire.

Hi MMKS

I would tend to agree with this understanding. However that would be about the end of my prophetic agreement with the SDA. I do not believe SDA and their teachings on the seven church ages, nor on the 2300 years, nor on who the little horn is. But I do agree that the Deadly head wound in RV 13 is the Fall of Pagan Rome and the rebirth as the HRE. I do agree that the HRE took on the mantel of Pagan Rome as the killer of Saints and the 42 months represents 1260 years.

LastSeven · Feb 12, 2019

I love it. Everybody presenting their own ideas, but so far no fighting.

Biblewriter · Feb 13, 2019

Just The Facts said:
...
The only Possible Answer is that somewhere along the Line the King's of the North morphs from one of the four Kingdoms of Alexander to the Fourth Kingdom that the stone destroys.

Actually you omitted one other possibility. And that is that the king of the north continues As the king of that region clear to the end of the prophecy. And that dovetails perfectly with a large number of explicitly stated prophecies that have never been fulfilled.

In my forthcoming book, "Keys to Bible Prophecy," which is currently in the process of being formatted for printing by Dispensational Publishing House, I have a map of the acncient Selucid empire superimposed on a map of the previous Assyrian empire, showing that, aside from a few sparsely populated regions around the edges, these two ancient empires occupied the same territory at different times in history. From that I conclude that the end time "Assyrian" and the end time "king of the north" are the same future individual.

That makes this individual be the subject of Isaiah 7, 10, 14, 30 and 31, of Micah 5, Of every chapter in Nahum, and of Daniel 8 and 11.

My contention is there are five distinct "bad guys" in end time prophecy. These are:
the king of the revived Roman Empire,
the king of revived Judah (now called Israel),
Gog, (the end time king of Russia),
the king of Egypt ("the king of the south"), and
"the Assyrian," who is also "the king of the north."

jgr · Feb 13, 2019

Just The Facts said:
Hello All

Every notice How Daniels 2 says there are four Kingdoms Starting with Babylon and the stone(Jesus) destroys the fourth kingdom and sets up God's Kingdom. Later in Daniel 11and 12 Daniel is told about the second and third Kingdoms. But Daniel 11&12 just keep calling him the King of the North right through to Jesus' return So where is the fourth Kingdom? We are told in Daniel 2 Jesus destroys the last Kingdom IE the Fourth Kingdom but in Daniel 11 he destroys the King of the North which never changes from one of the Four Kingdoms that Greece / Alexander's Kingdom breaks into.

The only Possible Answer is that somewhere along the Line the King's of the North morphs from one of the four Kingdoms of Alexander to the Fourth Kingdom that the stone destroys.

Detailed incisive explanation of Daniel 11.

Douggg · Feb 13, 2019

Just The Facts said:
When does the King of the North Become Russia at what verse is Daniel does it Go from Seleucid Kingdom to Russia.

By 2100 years of history. Completely different circumstances in the end times.

The battles in Daniel 11:40-44 are at the very end of the 7 years. Those battles are lead in to the sixth seal events taking place, which in reaction the kings of the earth (north, south, east, west), their armies already in the middle east at they attack the beast, unify to make war on Jesus. They assemble at Armageddon.

It is all the nations - Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Just The Facts said:
I do not agree with this understanding at all. Russia never occupied the Territory Known as the King of the North, and there is no king of the west. I think you are denying the Obvious because you need to get Russia who you believe to be Gog, into this picture.

Gog/Magog takes place 7 years earlier. Russia takes part in Gog/Magog. But the battles in Daniel 11:40-44 are 7 years later, after Gog/Magog.

Moscow is pretty much directly north of Jerusalem.

Just The Facts · Feb 13, 2019

Hello Bible

Interesting, so you would say the Muslims of that area which includes Iraq and Iran? King of the North implies one Kingdom. Do you believe we will see a unification between Sunni and Shia..because Iran and large parts of Iraq are Shia, as I am sure you are aware, and The rest are Suni.

Since you have named Gog in your list do you believe Gog happens twice IE:Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20? or do you believe the 1,000 years has already happened?

Hi Dougg

So you believe that Gog happens twice IE:Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20? or do you believe the 1,000 years has already happened?

Biblewriter · Feb 13, 2019

Just The Facts said:
Hello Bible

Interesting, so you would say the Muslims of that area which includes Iraq and Iran? King of the North implies one Kingdom. Do you believe we will see a unification between Sunni and Shia..because Iran and large parts of Iraq are Shia, as I am sure you are aware, and The rest are Suni.

Since you have named Gog in your list do you believe Gog happens twice IE:Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20? or do you believe the 1,000 years has already happened?

Hi Dougg

So you believe that Gog happens twice IE:Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20? or do you believe the 1,000 years has already happened?

I believe that the thousand years happens after the resurrection of the blessed and before the resurrection of the damned. And that Gog attacks before and after the thousand years.

parousia70 · Feb 13, 2019

Pethesedzao said:
The 4th kingdom is the rEUnited Roman Empire.

And the Chapter an Verse that teaches this, is found.....where?

parousia70 · Feb 13, 2019

Just The Facts said:
Do you believe we will see a unification between Sunni and Shia.

Well, people do say Hell will freeze over eventually...

Douggg · Feb 13, 2019

Just The Facts said:
Hi Dougg

So you believe that Gog happens twice IE:Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20? or do you believe the 1,000 years has already happened?

Gog/Mgog the muslim/Russian alliance happens once. Just before the 7 year 70th week.

The referral to Gog/Magog in Revelation 20 is to the nations of the same region.

Handmaid for Jesus · Feb 13, 2019

mmksparbud said:
At one point in history, every European country was united in one way---they were all related through marriage--"mingle themselves with the seed of men." Still, they could not become one. They are trying now through Brexit.

"Mingle themselves with the seed of men" does this mean they are other than the seed of men?

Pethesedzao · Feb 15, 2019

Daniel's prophesy describes the Fourth Kingdom that will rule the world after the Church is raptured to glory. The 10 are countries north north west of Israel and the 7 are Islamic countries which include Libya, Sudan, and Ethiopia.

Pethesedzao · Feb 15, 2019

Douggg said:
Gog/Mgog the muslim/Russian alliance happens once. Just before the 7 year 70th week.

The referral to Gog/Magog in Revelation 20 is to the nations of the same region.

So there are 2 Gog Magog wars??

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