Which political party is more consistent with scriptural teaching?

David Kent said:

The constitutution did not protect the Indians from genocide.

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Genocide? Are you talking about the plague?

Junker P Hoodwink said:

What is your opinion on the subject? Make sure to explain your views.

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the one sponsoring abortion on demand and redefinition of marriage away from what the Bible teaches. Basically the one rushing headlong into the teeth of Lev 18.

The Barbarian said:

So you're saying that Hillary Clinton should be president?

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That is one way of looking at it.

The Barbarian said:

Republicans need abortion as a campaign issue. .

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NYState and 7 other states like it ... help make your case unclear.

Junker P Hoodwink said:

What is your opinion on the subject? Make sure to explain your views.

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the one sponsoring abortion on demand and redefinition of marriage away from what the Bible teaches. Basically the one rushing headlong into the teeth of Lev 18.

EpiscipalMe said:

Frankly, I don't care if Trump is Christian or not. However, I do care about the hypocrisy of his supporters. .

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Thanks for clarifying that.

zelosravioli said:

Our prosperity should come as a natural result of hard work, labor, wise investment, and with the foundation of individual liberty, family, community and the freedom to do so.

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That's never happened in history before and probably can't happen. If that could happen, that would be an ideal world, but this isn't an ideal world, it's a fallen world.

Shiloh Raven said:

The United States of America was founded on white supremacy of the WASP and systematic racism against minorities, as well as hundreds of violated treaties its government signed with the tribal nations, forced Indian removals onto barren wastelands called Reservations, the Three-Fifths Clause, and legalized slavery. The only biblical principles that can be honestly attributed to America's founding was the insurmountable amount of attempted genocide and legalized slavery that took place during the continuous theft of tribal lands just so that the WASPs could have all that land for themselves.

The United States is a nation that was originally founded on attempted genocide, massive land theft, broken treaties, white supremacy, and the subjugation and discrimination against minorities. It is a nation built on perpetuated lies and stolen tribal lands. Black people, Native Americans and other minorities did not have the same freedom or liberties or justice that White Anglo-Saxon Protestant people had when this country was originally founded. It took this country 188 years and a Civil Rights Movement for it to finally live up to its claims of freedom, liberty and justice for all.

(1) For 188 years in this alleged Christian nation, Black people and other minorities were racially oppressed, subjugated, segregated, discriminated against and denied equality to white people.

(2) For 89 years in this alleged Christian nation, Black people were enslaved in legalized slavery and considered to be inferior to white people. From 1776 to 1865 slavery was legal in the United States.

(3) For 99 years after legalized slavery was finally abolished in this alleged Christian nation, the descendants of the freed slaves were then denied equality to white people and they were legally segregated from white people until the Civil Rights Movement in 1964.

(4) For 89 years in this alleged Christian nation, Black people were denied the right to vote (despite the Thirteenth Amendment) until the Jim Crow Laws were abolished by the Voting Rights Act in 1965.

(5) For 148 years in this alleged Christian nation, Native Americans were denied United States citizenship until the American Indian Citizenship Act in 1924.

(6) For 202 years in this alleged Christian nation, Native Americans were denied religious freedom until the American Indian Religious Freedom Act in 1978. Native American religious dances such as the Ghost Dance and the Sun Dance were both illegal and punishable by imprisonment.

(7) For 214 years in this alleged Christian nation, Native American religious sacred sites and burial grounds where the remains of their ancestors and family lie could be desecrated and destroyed until the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act in 1990.

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My Grandmother was full Mohawk Indian, my great great grandfather was chief of the Huron tribe, I am well aware of the horrors of these American atrocities. You judge to quickly, and missed the part where I said 'Our freedom is prescribed by our Constitution, these ideals have worked to advance freedom for slaves, for women...'
These rights are prescribed by our constitution - sadly ideals aren't even understood by those who make them or receive them. These ideals took time, but it is 'these' ideals that worked to advance 'eventual' justice - although these rights were there all along people just missed them.

As a Christians we should recognize this; the truth of salvation by grace, the end of the priesthood, the truth of loving one another, the end of slavery and the equality of all men, the errors of kings and queens, of lords and institutions of religion, etc etc, all this you would think would have been very clear to the Christians of the 1st 1500s of Christianity - it was all prescribed in scripture - yet it has taken 1500, 2000 years to see and understand what was there all along.

You speak of US history, but this is not where history began. A student of world history soon becomes terribly aware of the real nature of mankind - war - thousands upon thousands of wars. Vicious brutality, horrible violence, torture, blood, as far back as you can see you find horrible battles and pillaging and rape and destruction - millions upon millions dead, so many horrible atrocities and this 'continued' even with the 'christian' nations of Europe. No one here is saying the US constitution changed the nature of beasts instantly into philanthropic love machines, neither did the bible, it is taking a long time, but the primary PRINCIPLE was there from the beginning. It was written:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America"

The ingredients were given, and the constitution was laid out to form and 'secure' a government that would be best able to attain these goals of freedom - none of the founding fathers had any delusions of having attained these goals and ideals, or that it would happen soon, they even doubted it would work - they hadn't even defeated the British at this point, and they still had dissension and many who still sided with the British... but in order to form, or hope, that someday it would, they thought they would try - what had never been done before.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" (Declaration of Independence)

Do you not agree with this? Are you saying you want a different declaration?

Do not steal
Do not lie
Feed the homeless and widows.
Share your wealth.
Help the alien
Do not be greedy
Have only one God and do not make an idol of anyone else.
Do not have extra marital affairs.
Do not pay bribes to inappropriate content stars.

Yep both pretty scriptural. There is plenty said about that..

RDKirk said:

That's never happened in history before and probably can't happen. If that could happen, that would be an ideal world, but this isn't an ideal world, it's a fallen world.

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I agree it never happened until the US was formed. This has been the most prosperous nation on earth, a standard of living never known on earth, ever. . I am yet fifty years old yet I have met thousands upon thousands of business owners and 'regular' people who made a good and prosperous life for themselves here, through hard work - are you saying we haven't done so?

Spiritlight said:

Do not steal
Do not lie
Feed the homeless and widows.
Share your wealth.
Help the alien
Do not be greedy
Have only one God and do not make an idol of anyone else.
Do not have extra marital affairs.
Do not pay bribes to inappropriate content stars.

Yep both pretty scriptural. There is plenty said about that..

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I agree, you are free to share your wealth, and I'm free to share mine - but insisting the Govt take it by force from either you or me, is not what 'christians' do to each other. That is neither freedom or charity. I don't even trust my local church to properly take and give my money, I can do it better 'myself'.

I help aliens, legal and not. But that is only because our corrupt Govt is 'inviting' them to be illegal. That in itself is illegal and wrong. God has laws, Israel had 'laws'. And all civilizations have and need laws to Govern, otherwise you have 'lawlessness'. Laws ensure and protect society. Christians are not 'under' the Law of Moses, but the Law is our example, our ideal, and we are to have and obey laws of the land (s).

Asking people to enter this country legally is not unfair, wrong, or 'unbiblical'. There is nothing from scripture that says the Israelites didn't meet and vet the people coming into their 'camp'. To think they didn't reserve the right to make some decision 'before' allowing someone into the camp is absurd. Israel was generally a tribal nation, when they had a country they had a wall, as the do now.

The line 'no person is illegal' is illogical.

Scripture speaks of being truthful. Truth is logical and reasonable.
So when a political party continues to assert and defend such a phrase they are being untruthful because it 'is' illegal to enter the country illegally. If you want to change the law go ahead and work to do that, but it has to be 'legal'. So this assertion is not scriptural because it is not 'true'.

The democrat party continues to repeat the falsehood that; 'conservatives don't want immigrants', or 'conservatives don't like immigrants.. or such, deliberately leaving out the word 'illegal'. This is a blatant misrepresentation of truth. Go ahead and disagree with the conservative position but to continuously and purposefully leave out the word 'Illegal' in order to misrepresent the position, is blatant evil because this misrepresentation has caused hate and division between millions of people where there was none at all.

There is nothing wrong with legal immigration. It has been the law for over 90 years, all the democrats have voted for it, they have all endorsed border control and security, to yet change positions overnight simply to slander the conservative party, it is unjust, deceitful, hypocritical - because all along they have supported it.

Junker P Hoodwink said:

I disagree. God must be included in civic life. If you don't agree, then what are you suggesting? That atheism should be the guiding ethos for our civilization?

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Is God guiding america? If so in what way?

❀ ✿ ❁ ✾

zelosravioli said:

I agree it never happened until the US was formed. This has been the most prosperous nation on earth, a standard of living never known on earth, ever. . I am yet fifty years old yet I have met thousands upon thousands of business owners and 'regular' people who made a good and prosperous life for themselves here, through hard work - are you saying we haven't done so?

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It didn't happen when the US was formed, either, and it hasn't happened yet.

There are "thousands upon thousands of business owners and 'regular' people who made a good and prosperous life for themselves" in many countries.

The US became "the most prosperous nation on earth" first by exploiting whatever was the lowest class of laborers at the time through the 19th century and second by literally destroying the infrastructures of the nations that were the primary industrial competition in the 20th century.

zelosravioli said:

{snip}

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America"

The ingredients were given, and the constitution was laid out to form and 'secure' a government that would be best able to attain these goals of freedom - none of the founding fathers had any delusions of having attained these goals and ideals, or that it would happen soon, they even doubted it would work - they hadn't even defeated the British at this point, and they still had dissension and many who still sided with the British... but in order to form, or hope, that someday it would, they thought they would try - what had never been done before.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" (Declaration of Independence)

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It book America 188 years to finally live up to its ideals of freedom, liberty and justice for all and live up to its own declaration that all men are created equal when it concerned minorities.

"Our nation was born in genocide when it embraced the doctrine that the original American, the Indian, was an inferior race. Even before there were large numbers of Negroes on our shores, the scar of racial hatred had already disfigured colonial society. From the sixteenth century forward, blood flowed in battles of racial supremacy. We are perhaps the only nation which tried as a matter of national policy to wipe out its Indigenous population. Moreover, we elevated that tragic experience into a noble crusade. Indeed, even today we have not permitted ourselves to reject or feel remorse for this shameful episode. Our literature, our films, our drama, our folklore all exalt it." - MLK, Jr.

Speaking of the "Founding Fathers," here's what some of them thought of Native Americans.

“If it be the design of Providence to extirpate these Savages in order to make room for cultivators of the Earth, it seems not improbable that rum may be the appointed means.” - Benjamin Franklin

“This unfortunate race, whom we had been taking so much pains to save and to civilize, have by their unexpected desertion and ferocious barbarities justified extermination and now await our decision on their fate.” - Thomas Jefferson

“The immediate objectives are the total destruction and devastation of their settlements and the capture of as many prisoners of every age and sex as possible. It will be essential to ruin their crops in the ground and prevent their planting more.” - George Washington

“The hunter or savage state requires a greater extent of territory to sustain it, than is compatible with the progress and just claims of civilized life, and must yield to it. Nothing is more certain, than, if the Indian tribes do not abandon that state, and become civilized, that they will decline, and become extinct. The hunter state, tho maintain’d by warlike spirits, presents but a feeble resistance to the more dense, compact, and powerful population of civilized man.” - James Monroe

Source: Nice Day for a Genocide: Shocking Quotes on Indians By US Leaders, Pt 1

Also see: Nice Day for a Genocide: Shocking Quotes on Indians by U.S. Leaders, Pt. 2

If only the United States government had given such a sincere apology to Native Americans.

"Many of us, me particularly, are from the units that have hurt you over the many years. We came. We fought you. We took your land. We signed treaties that we broke. We stole minerals from your sacred hills. We blasted the faces of our presidents onto your sacred mountain. When we took still more land and then we took your children and then we tried to make your language and we tried to eliminate your language that God gave you, and the Creator gave you. We didn’t respect you, we polluted your Earth, we’ve hurt you in so many ways but we’ve come to say that we are sorry. We are at your service and we beg for your forgiveness." - Wes Clark Jr.

Forgiveness Ceremony Unites Veterans And Natives At Standing Rock Casino

"We beg for your forgiveness": Veterans join Native elders in celebration ceremony

Watch Standing Rock Tribes Cheer As Vets Apologize On Behalf Of U.S. Government

Veterans came to North Dakota to protest a pipeline. But they also found healing and forgiveness

RDKirk said:

It didn't happen when the US was formed, either, and it hasn't happened yet.

There are "thousands upon thousands of business owners and 'regular' people who made a good and prosperous life for themselves" in many countries.

The US became "the most prosperous nation on earth" first by exploiting whatever was the lowest class of laborers at the time through the 19th century and second by literally destroying the infrastructures of the nations that were the primary industrial competition in the 20th century.

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I was reminded of the following quote when I read what you said in your post.

"When Donald Trump says, 'Make America Great Again,' what time period is he talking about? A lot of people overlook that America's history has been built upon injustice against other racial groups, including Native American people." - Vanessa Bowen, creator of 'Make America Native Again' hats

Navajo Artist Creates 'Make America Native Again' Hats to Critique Donald Trump's Campaign Slogan

zelosravioli said:

I help aliens, legal and not. But that is only because our corrupt Govt is 'inviting' them to be illegal. That in itself is illegal and wrong.

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This is very perceptive. We created a demand for labor that our citizens are not filling, and then we get upset and pass laws against rational behavior when people come here to meet the demand.

The irrationality of that is stunning, but we have an almost infinite capacity for irrationality. The real reason we don't have effective control of illegal immigration, is that it is in America's best interests to have those people here.

There will be no immigration reform until we acknowledge that fact.

zelosravioli said:

I agree it never happened until the US was formed. This has been the most prosperous nation on earth, a standard of living never known on earth, ever. . I am yet fifty years old yet I have met thousands upon thousands of business owners and 'regular' people who made a good and prosperous life for themselves here, through hard work - are you saying we haven't done so?

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Yes there are plenty of rich people in most nations and there agion the are a;lso many poor. The US is no exception. I saw a film soon after the banking crisis where a large area of once fine houses had mostly been claimed back by the banks, all standing derelict, with only one or two here and there still inhabited. A friend of mine who was a missionary in the philippines tells of Fine houses and great shopping malls and just round the cornern hundreds of families living on the street. The church he was attached to ran drop in centres for the street families where some at least could get one good meal a week. They also ran an educational assistance programme where they could help children to get things they needed for school. Education is free but to attend school they had to have a uniform, and other things. The church helped them with this.

Yes just like the US there are many very rich but also many extremely poor.

Spiritlight said:

Until it suits us like when we used OT verses to protest gay marriage or cherry pick what suits our agendas in society. Ever noticed that?

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Not just the OT but also Romans 1.

The hate for Trump surpasses any hate ever for any president we have ever had.

Getting back to the OP, the Republican party does not support:
1. Killing babies.
2. Killing full term babies.
3. Killing babies after birth.

Just to name one thing.

jmldn2 said:

The hate for Trump surpasses any hate ever for any president we have ever had.

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Doesn't come close to the hate we've seen for Barack Obama or Bill Clinton.