women pastors.

ICONO'CLAST · Jan 21, 2019

step_by_step said:
Why? I don't see anything wrong with it. I know a few women pastors who are lovely people and very devout Christians. If they're preaching the word of God, who's to say it's wrong just because they're women? Are women not supposed to minister to the world?

1tim2:11-15

HosannaHM · Jan 21, 2019

JackRT said:
BTW Christians, you and I included, almost always argue from authority. The difference lies in which interpretation we prefer.

I agree, we do argue from authority. However, it seems you have thrown out the sufficiency of scripture. If we are going to argue based on our opinions and not what the bible says, there's no sense in trying to come to a consensus. If we can't interpret the bible plainly, how can we understand anything?

And I talked about the argument from authority because you are emphasizing "scholars" over scripture. I'm all for looking to history and what other theologians have written, but no tool of proper exegesis will compare to the plain reading of the bible itself (comparing scripture with scripture).

JackRT · Jan 21, 2019

ICONO'CLAST said:
1tim2:11-15

See my post #35 in this thread.

step_by_step · Jan 21, 2019

ICONO'CLAST said:
1tim2:11-15

God did not say that. The writer did

HosannaHM · Jan 21, 2019

step_by_step said:
God did not say that. The writer did

Do you not believe this is God's Word?

Sammy-San · Jan 21, 2019

HosannaHM said:
Do you not believe this is God's Word?

My analogy was modesty standards being different shows the rule isnt sexism.

ICONO'CLAST · Jan 22, 2019

step_by_step said:
God did not say that. The writer did

God did say it through the writer...men wrote as they were born along by the Spirit...all scripture God breathed.

ICONO'CLAST · Jan 22, 2019

JackRT said:
To begin with, a great many Bible scholars regard 1 and 2 Timothy plus Titus as pseudopigraphic. That is, they were written in Paul's name but some 60 years after Paul's death but it seems they were written by the same person. Aside from that, the use of the word "I" in the verse above indicates that the writer is giving a personal opinion rather than a universal truth. The writer is speaking out of the deep patriarchy of the 2nd century Mediterranean world. He is reflecting the almost universal cultural mind set of a long ago time in a distant place. Cultures change and patriarchy is dying, very slowly but thank God it is.

2 tim.3:16...do not read apostate scholars.

Mhiriam · Jan 24, 2019

Not going to say yes or no here, but just as a topic of interest:

TheLostCoin said:
Because women and men received different punishments in different gender roles. Men sweat and work to death for their food, women look to their husband who rules over them, and give pain in childbirth, etc.

What if you don't have a husband? Then we are to devote ourselves to God. Thoughts?

Sammy-San · Jan 24, 2019

Mhiriam said:
Not going to say yes or no here, but just as a topic of interest:

What if you don't have a husband? Then we are to devote ourselves to God. Thoughts?

Im saying since women cover their chest at the beach, you cant say its sexist that women are forbidden to do something that men can do.

SwordmanJr · Feb 8, 2019

JackRT said:
When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men and in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himslf seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today.
Any organization, religious or secular and including marriage, that fails to include women in leadership roles right up to the very top is guilty of several evils. First, it is the insult to the women themselves by viewing them as less worthy. Second, it is the insult to God by denigrating half of God’s creation. If we continue to treat women in this way, then the human race is condemned to stand on one foot, see with one eye, hear with one ear and think with one half the human mind ---- and it shows.

Yep. The slight-of-hand criticisms against denying women the leadership roles within the Church and in the family with such trickery as claiming such modern denials are based upon the idea of women allegedly being inferior and/or culturally irrelevant in ancient times, that's nothing short of feministic theology. The ugly pustule encrusted head of feminism was already present in the Garden before the Fall, and is alive and well today.

The idea that 1 and 2 Timothy were allegedly written 60 years after Paul's death....good grief! This kind of biblical criticism is nothing short of pure, leftist liberalism. There are people out there with all kinds of acronym lettering attached to their names who are extreme leftist liberals in the arena of theology, and they have mastered the art of implanting twinkling stars in the eyes of their followers. Their sickening denials of even the obvious language within the letters leaves one standing with mouth agape at the bold-faced lies and deceptions sprinkled with copious amounts of lingual analytics that impress many a novice into believing them without question.

1 John 2:27 puts to rest the totality of it all. Either God is faithful to His word, or He is not. I believe He is. The liberal leftist theologian appeals to intellect rather than point each individual to the Lord for verification. How telling indeed.

Jr.

JackRT · Feb 8, 2019

SwordmanJr said:
The ugly pustule encrusted head of feminism was already present in the Garden before the Fall, and is alive and well today.

Just as with any movement or philosophy there can be feminist extremists but I am in general agreement with feminism because patriarchy is arguably the most pernicious evil people have ever perpetrated on themselves.

SwordmanJr · Feb 10, 2019

JackRT said:
Just as with any movement or philosophy there can be feminist extremists but I am in general agreement with feminism because patriarchy is arguably the most pernicious evil people have ever perpetrated on themselves.

Do you believe a kingdom can survive with two kings.

Sammy-San · Feb 11, 2019

SwordmanJr said:
Do you believe a kingdom can survive with two kings.

Diumvirate

Sammy-San · Feb 11, 2019

step_by_step said:
Why? I don't see anything wrong with it. I know a few women pastors who are lovely people and very devout Christians. If they're preaching the word of God, who's to say it's wrong just because they're women? Are women not supposed to minister to the world?

Whats your view on women not covering their breasts?

Just because women are forbidden to do things men can do doesnt mean its unfair.

SwordmanJr · Feb 12, 2019

Sammy-San said:
Diumvirate

Yep, and Rome collapsed under the system of Duumvirate.

So, when consensus cannot be reached, with two equally powerful people in charge, something's gonna give....

JackRT poo-pooed patriarchy as allegedly being evil perpetrated by people. It would be interesting to see him try to explain Eph. 5:23 where it says, "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."

So, by his standard of reasoning, Jesus is also evil for having dared to proclaim patriarchy as the heirarchical construct of marriage....unless he can defend the idea that the Church is somehow equal with Jesus inspite of the clear language to the contrary.

Jr.

step_by_step · Feb 12, 2019

Sammy-San said:
Whats your view on women not covering their breasts?

Just because women are forbidden to do things men can do doesnt mean its unfair.

This is a ridiculous argument. In what world is women walking around with exposed breasts the same as them preaching the word of God??

SwordmanJr · Feb 12, 2019

Welcome to the jungle, step-by-step....

women pastors.

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