WHERE DOES IT SAY GOD'S SABBATH IS ABOLSIHED AND WE ARE COMMANDED TO KEEP SUNDAY AS A HOLY DAY?

bèlla · Feb 8, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Me too that root changed my heart.

It led me Home. I am indebted.

LoveGodsWord · Feb 8, 2019

LaBèlla said:
It led me Home. I am indebted.

Without this root we are all dead twigs

ace of hearts · Feb 8, 2019

Pethesedzao said:
and the Law was not made for the righteous but for the ?

Haven't used that one. Great verse.

LoveGodsWord · Feb 8, 2019

ace of hearts said:
Haven't used that one. Great verse.

INDEED as posted earlier, that is the purpose of God's LAW it is the mirror that helps us to see our need of a Savior because we are all sinners in need of God's salvation. God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of SIN when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's 4th Commandment is one of God's 10 commandments. God's WORD says that if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11.

All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

In times of IGNORANCE God winks at but when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come God calls all men everywhere to REPENT *ACTS 17:30-31.

bèlla · Feb 8, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Without this root we are all dead twigs

I concur. HaShem has brought me far. And to think, I nearly forsook H-m. To my shame.

ace of hearts · Feb 8, 2019

Tone said:
I liked what you said about having both days off, but do you really believe that Paul was speaking of the Shabbat here? This would be the least difficult thing for the gentiles to "do". There's nothing to do, it's a Yah given rest that they get to enjoy.

Do you suppose Paul is defending and requiring observance of the sabbath? If so based on what?

LoveGodsWord · Feb 8, 2019

LaBèlla said:
I concur. HaShem has brought me far. And to think, I nearly forsook H-m. To my shame.

I was the same sister. Like you I could not resist his calling and saw my folly. He never gives up on us and is not willing that any of us should perish. I feel so blessed in that while I was dead he died that I might live. I could not see this until I saw myself as God sees me and he opened my eyes to see what he did to save me. If our lamp has gone out how can we find our way when the road is dark and narrow? Sadly many have broken lamps or let their oil run out.

ace of hearts · Feb 8, 2019

Tone said:
Correct, the "Lord's Day" is found in Revelation.

Revelation 1:10

Referencing:

"The Day of the Lord" is a biblical term and theme used in both the Hebrew Bible (יֹום יְהוָה) and the New Testament(ἡμέρα κυρίου), as in "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come" (Joel 2:31, cited in Acts 2:20).

The Day of the Lord - Wikipedia

Day of the Lord isn't the Lord's Day of Rev 1:10. Neither is it Saturday.

fhansen · Feb 8, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
The challenge I am putting up here in the OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

...................

Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...

Where did you get the idea that everything has to be recorded in the Bible?

klutedavid · Feb 8, 2019

Hello LGW.

Your not reading the text properly, James does not say what you are saying.

JAMES in the NEW COVENANT says that if we break any one of God's 10 Commandments we stand guilty before GOD of SIN. *JAMES 2:10-11;

Here is what James actually states.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

James did not say ten commandments, James said 'the whole law'. There is an unmistakable difference between 'the whole law' and the ten commandments.

I want to know why you obliterate what the text says and substitute your interpretation, over the top of the text?

PAUL say God's 10 Commandments when broken give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7.

Once again there is a marked difference between what Paul says and what you say Paul said.

Romans 3:20
Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Through the law not through the ten commandments is what Paul is actually telling us.

You ignored the context of Romans chapter three which further compounds your error.

bèlla · Feb 8, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
I was the same sister. Like you I could not resist his calling and saw my folly. He never gives up on us and is not willing that any of us should perish. I feel so blessed in that while I was dead he died that I might live. I could not see this until I saw myself as God sees me and he opened my eyes to see what he did to save me.

I was looking for G-d. I have gone through more religions than one should know. I kept searching. I was raised Catholic and would spend the night reading my bible by flashlight when I should have been sleeping. I was drawn to Solomon and his wisdom and prayed earnestly for the same.

There was a song I heard as a little girl called The Question Is. I remember my heart would flutter when it came on the radio Sunday morning. I would have never imagined my departure. But there was a ram in the bush. When I arrived at the shul I was weary and so haggard. That's when He got to work. ;-)

ace of hearts · Feb 8, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi brother Dale,

Let's look at the scriptures? Here is a break down of ACTS 15..

ACTS 15:1:21
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES YOU CANNOT BE SAVED.

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, THEY DETERMINED THAT PAUL AND BARNABAS AND CERTAIN OF THEM SHOULD GO UP TO JERUSALEM UNTO THE APOSLTLES AND ELDERS ABOUT THIS QUESTION.

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED.

They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their case first..

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. CIRCUMCIONS is from the law of MOSES not God’s 10 Commandments written by God on two tables of stone.

[6], And the apostles and elders came together TO CONSIDER THIS MATTER.

NOTE: Again the topic of discussion and chapter CONTEXT that is being considered is the question stated in ACTS 15:1 which was IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT OF SALVATION?

[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being UNCIRCUMCISED.

[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORITHIANS do not make any sense.

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15. You do not believe Dale, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

[19], THEREFORE MY JUDGMENT IS THAT WE TROUBLE NOT THEM WHO FROM THE GENTILES ARE TURNED TO GOD:
[20], BUT WRITE UNTO THEM THAT THEY ABSTAIN FROM THE DEFILEMENT OF IDOLS, FORNICATION AND THINGS STRANGLED AND FROM BLOOD.

NOTE: JAMES conclusion is that new Gentile believers should not be troubled with CIRCUMCISION as a requirement of salvation which was the matter being considered and the question being discussion as shown in *ACTS 15:1-2; ACTS 15:6 but asks them to abstain from idols, fornication and from things strangled and from blood.

[21], FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY SABBATH.

NOTE: The reason why JAMES sends this letter to the new Gentile believers is that they would continue learning God's WORD EVERY SABBATH.

CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter with CONTEXT added back in is fould in v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts that will learn more about GOD'S WORD when? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication.

NOPE nothing written about the 10 Commandments being abolished in this chapter. Here is what PAUL says of the matter here...

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

Yep you may need to revisit your thinking of ACTS 15. CIRCUMCISION is not the 10 Commandments. It is from the Shadow laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.

God bless

There's nothing in Acts 15 to support you idea about shadow laws. It clearly says the Law of Moses which means the entire first 5 books of the OT.

ace of hearts · Feb 8, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
And... How does this say God's 4th Commandment is Abolished and we are not commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?

Where in the NT does it require keeping the sabbath?

LoveGodsWord · Feb 8, 2019

klutedavid said:
Hello LGW.

Your not reading the text properly, James does not say what you are saying.

Here is what James actually states.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

James did not say ten commandments, James said 'the whole law'. There is an unmistakable difference between 'the whole law' and the ten commandments.

I want to know why you obliterate what the text says and substitute your interpretation, over the top of the text?

Once again there is a marked difference between what Paul says and what you say Paul said.

Romans 3:20
Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Through the law not through the ten commandments is what Paul is actually telling us.

You ignored the context of Romans chapter three which further compounds your error.

Hi David, nice to see you.

However, not really brother. The text is being read according to God's WORD how it is intended to be read. God's WORD is very clear on what it is talking about. In all the scriptures provided defining what SIN is in the NEW COVENANT each of the writers define SIN as breaking any one of God's 10 commandments and use examples quoted from God's 10 Commandments. Let's look at the scriptures answering the question...

WHAT IS SIN IN THE NEW COVENANT?

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Yep, James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN. James quotes two of the 10 Commandments saying that if we break them we commit sin v9 that are summed up in the 2nd great commandments of LOVE to God and LOVE to our neighbour in v11. Maybe you missed that one? Notice how JAMES uses the example of ADULTERY *EXODUS 20:14 and MURDER *EXODUS 20:13. Yep he is talking about God's 10 Commandments all right.

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that he did not know what sin was without God's 10 Commandments. SIN is breaking God's commandments and Paul uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17). Yep PAUL makes it very clear he is talking about GOD LAW being the 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is. This is linked to what PAUL is discussing in ROMANS 3:20 where he is saying both JEWS and GENTILES are all under sin (breaking God's 10 commandments)

links to...

1 JOHN 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is saying the same thing as James and Paul and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments). We will look at the chapter context John uses v15 of MURDER as an example of sin which is God's 6th Command of the 10.

Sin is indeed defined in God's WORD as breaking any of the 10 Commandments in both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.

LoveGodsWord · Feb 8, 2019

ace of hearts said:
Where in the NT does it require keeping the sabbath?

Your repeating yourself here brother. Already answered in post # 43 linked click me

Hope this helps

ace of hearts · Feb 8, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
JAMES in the NEW COVENANT says that if we break any one of God's 10 Commandments we stand guilty before GOD of SIN. *JAMES 2:10-11; as does JOHN *1 JOHN 3:4. PAUL say God's 10 Commandments when broken give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7.

Sorry but sin isn't James' focus. He's addressing Jewish Christians here. There's nothing in chapter 2 about a requirement to keep the law. He's telling those who claim they do they must keep it all. Fact is no one does according to Jewish Scripture (OT). James is clearly not requiring works of the law.

God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD *PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

CONCLUSION?

HEBREWS 4:9 SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Hope this helps

Works of the law aren't called fruit anywhere.

LoveGodsWord · Feb 8, 2019

ace of hearts said:
There's nothing in Acts 15 to support you idea about shadow laws. It clearly says the Law of Moses which means the entire first 5 books of the OT.

Really? What do you think CIRCUMCISION represents in the NEW COVENANT?

LoveGodsWord · Feb 8, 2019

LaBèlla said:
I was looking for G-d. I have gone through more religions than one should know. I kept searching. I was raised Catholic and would spend the night reading my bible by flashlight when I should have been sleeping. I was drawn to Solomon and his wisdom and prayed earnestly for the same.

There was a song I heard as a little girl called The Question Is. I remember my heart would flutter when it came on the radio Sunday morning. I would have never imagined my departure. But there was a ram in the bush. When I arrived at the shul I was weary and so haggard. That's when He got to work. ;-)

I have a good friend that sounds just like you sister. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

bèlla · Feb 8, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
I have a good friend that sounds just like you sister. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

Thank you. It's nice to know there are others like me.

ace of hearts · Feb 8, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Your repeating yourself here brother. Already answered in post # 43 linked click me

Hope this helps

Not by you.

WHERE DOES IT SAY GOD'S SABBATH IS ABOLSIHED AND WE ARE COMMANDED TO KEEP SUNDAY AS A HOLY DAY?

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