Are we saved by faith alone or faith plus works?

aspie3000 said:

How do you reconcile the book of Romans and the Book of James?

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Can you be more specific? I see no need to reconcile them.

Saved by faith so that we are empowered to do good works.

Another way to say it . We were made righteous so we could be (act) righteous.

Think about it like this, Paul and James are talking about the same thing, they are just placing their focus on different aspects of it. Probably due to the nature of the question that was originally asked of them.

aspie3000 said:

@topher694 then why does James say we are justified by works. In your example you say that faith justifies us so we can do good works but James says that works justifies us. James 2:24 As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

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Justified here means exampled.

When you are saved (by grace through faith) there should be a noticable change in behavior that accompanies it. Your good works demonstrate/example your faith, but they don't save you.

Abraham had faith, that was already there, but he demonstrated his faith on the mountain. That's how the rest of us are able to see his faith to this day.

I am convicted that faith and works work together towards the final end; our final salvation. We must also follow Christ. That takes time. It's a journey.

aspie3000 said:

@topher694 The word justified means exampled? I would like to believe that but I'm going to need proof.

This is a link showing how the Greek word here is used in the rest of the Bible. Greek Concordance: δικαιοῦται (dikaioutai) -- 4 Occurrences Its the same word used when Paul said someone is not justified by works of the Law leading to my confusion.

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Sheesh, what is it with people here demanding proof for every little thing.

Strongs for this word justified:
to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

aspie3000 said:

@Gracia Singh
You are convicted? What is meant by that? Why does Paul say that salvation is a free gift? How can salvation be a free gift if someone has to work for it?

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We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

aspie3000 said:

@topher694 then why does James say we are justified by works?

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He doesn't. He says that somebody who touts his faith but doesn't live it doesn't really have the faith that saves. We can conclude this from observing the evidence.

When he speaks of faith alone, he is addressing the possibility of real faith existing in the absence of works, which for James would be an impossibility. Hence faith is not "alone."

Salvation is by faith and works.
I would explain more but I have already been in 2 threads of the same topic and I am tired of that.
So if you want an Orthodox explanation, you should go to TAW:
The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox

aspie3000 said:

How do you reconcile the book of Romans and the Book of James?

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Paul is talking to a mixed crowd of Jewish Christians and gentile Christians describing the mechanics of salvation, and specifically how gentiles can be saved without becoming Jews first. Paul explicitly defines "work" as people attempting to obligate God to pay them wages of eternal life for their efforts. That definition of "work" is peculiar to Paul's use in this argument, which why he makes the explicit definition of what he means by it. That definition does not apply in other places, such as Paul's use of "works" in Ephesians.

James it talking to saved people about how people should behave after being saved, using "works" in the same way and context as Paul uses it in Ephesians.

Gracia Singh said:

We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

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Work out isn't working for. We obey Christ because we love Him and we love Him because He first loved us. We are able to love Him because God gave us faith.

Phoebe Ann said:

Work out isn't working for. We obey Christ because we love Him and we love Him because He first loved us.

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No contradiction there, friend. Obedience and love are also parts of it. Working out our salvation does mean that we respond to His love with works and that we work our salvation out; it is not a given, and is a process.

Gracia Singh said:

No contradiction there, friend. Obedience and love are also parts of it. Working out our salvation does mean that we respond to His love with works and that we work our salvation out; it is not a given, and is a process.

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It's like a good body, if you stop working out you lose that good body.