The Holy Bible Teaches Globe Earth.

SeventyOne

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Dude, gravity is physics, not biology.

And just declaring things to be special, doesn't make them special.

Having said that, I just noticed I was a bit quick with the response of "gravity". I see now that your question wasn't about its shape in comparision with other planets.

But that's the answer to that question though.... Why are planets, moons, stars,... all spherical?
Well: gravity.


Once things reach a certain mass in space, then they can only end up spherical.


About your actual comment... well.... you can believe and claim till the cows come home or you're blue in the face that earth is "special" in comparision to the other planets, but you're simply going to miss the fact that it isn't.

And your mistake is thinking earth is just another planet. You are stuck in that model for the moment. Hence, my question was to creationists, those not stuck in that model.

Until you are able to break free of that model you've been told to believe, you can't answer my question.
 
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SeventyOne

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I understand the question. As said, initially I misread the question.
It's a loaded question in which you are also somewhat arrogantly asserting that YOUR particular interpretation of the bible is the only correct one.

It's no more arrogant than assertions that it is not the correct one.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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Actually, it's quite a viable question for creationists. You may want to put a little more thought into it.

No, he's correct.

It doesn't matter how the earth originated.
Wheter it's through natural planetary formation in accretion discs around new formed stars, or if your god created it from scratch, or if inter-dimensional unicorns farter it out.

Whatever the actual answer, it won't change the factual reality of what the earth is, what materials it consists of and how it compares to other planets.

As @Speedwell said: earth is what it is and not what it isn't - no matter what any scripture or scientific theory has to say about its origins.

If you wish to claim it is special as compared to other planets, then you are making claims about its observable properties and how those compare to the observable properties of other planets.

As a reference analogy: the manufacturing of cars.
Let's say there is a factory that is 100% automated. You flip the "on" switch and the factory starts producing cars, fully automatically.

Now let's say that I create such a car 100% by hand and follow the exact same plans.

The end result is identical.

The car I made, isn't objectively more or less special then all the machine made cars.
Anyone not knowing one of them is made by hand, won't even see any difference.

See?
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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And your mistake is thinking earth is just another planet.

I have exactly zero reason to think otherwise.
You are welcome to share some of those reason.


You are stuck in that model for the moment. Hence, my question was to creationists, those not stuck in that model.

So, you only want answers from people stuck in the fundamentalist bible bubble?

Until you are able to break free of that model you've been told to believe, you can't answer my question.

That's easy to do. Just give me some evidence and I'll happily step out of my model into yours.

What would it take for you to step out of your bubble?
 
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SeventyOne

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I have exactly zero reason to think otherwise.
You are welcome to share some of those reason.




So, you only want answers from people stuck in the fundamentalist bible bubble?



That's easy to do. Just give me some evidence and I'll happily step out of my model into yours.

What would it take for you to step out of your bubble?

This will be my last comment on the matter.

With that question, I'm asking creationists only, because it is the only source founded in reality. Anyone else floating around out there under the evolutionary delusion will be unable to answer it. Period.

No amount of posturing, arguing, or debating will ever change that. There's nothing more to say.
 
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Theo Barnsley

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Please. Stop. I can't make it any more clear than I have. No one holding a mythical evolutionary stance can answer that particular question.

You say it's physics, not evolution, but it's actually neither. It's an order of creation question. How can you possibly answer a question you can't understand?
If there is absolutely NO evidence that can be presented that will change your mind about your belief, then why should ANYBODY take any of your beliefs seriously, since your beliefs are obviously not logical, & can never be verified.
 
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SeventyOne

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If there is absolutely NO evidence that can be presented that will change your mind about your belief, then why should ANYBODY take any of your beliefs seriously, since your beliefs are obviously not logical, & can never be verified.


I'm not asking anyone to believe anything. I was clarifying that the question he attempted to take on can't be answered by evolutionists. How is that so difficult to comprehend? I said it at least three times.

Evolutionists are completely incapable of providing a coherent answer to that question. Do I need do repeat myself again?
 
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Zetetica

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From a flat earth perspective, the earth also looks like a circle, so that's not a proof of anything. I am curious though if you did anything with the last part of that verse in relation to a globe. The heavens are spread out like a tent to dwell in. Lat time I checked, a tent structure the writer would have been familiar with would be an enclosure over a flat surface. I seriously doubt the idea of a tent would have brought to mind a ball hurling through the air. So, how did you relate that part to a globe?
*coughs* solid firmament and numerous examples that take a LOT of explaining or dismissing as allegory to get a sphere.
 
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Zetetica

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There is no discepency between the undetailed version of Creation that we are given in Genesis ... and any of the scientific theories you mention.

In fact, the "Big Bang" can easily be understood to correlate to God's statement "Let there be Light" ...
No, it can’t. The Big Bang brightness isn’t called DAY.
 
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ViaCrucis

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*coughs* solid firmament and numerous examples that take a LOT of explaining or dismissing as allegory to get a sphere.

Every day I carry a device in my pocket that relies on wireless signals and satellites to function. But, sure, there's a solid dome up there and we haven't sent rockets and have satellites in orbit.

I suppose it's all just one big lie, and my phone relies on pixie dust to function.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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A_Thinker

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No, it can’t. The Big Bang brightness isn’t called DAY.

So ... you are very definitely defining the original LIGHT as DAY, even before the dividing ???

I would say that this language presents concepts (i.e. light, darkness, void, earth, heavens, etc.) ... and is, thus, not meant to convey exact information. It is to give you an idea of what God did ...

Genesis 1

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
 
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ViaCrucis

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No, it can’t. The Big Bang brightness isn’t called DAY.

Right, you can't actually have a day without a meaningful astronomical referent. Days require the relationship between the earth and sun. So when the author of Genesis 1 is able to speak of the first day, with evening and morning, they are only able to do so in an entirely unscientific, non-literal way. You can't have day, night, morning, or evening without that astronomical referent. Which is why understanding the days of creation as a poetical framework, with "it was morning, it was evening, the Nth day" acting as the refrain; the creation being organized into days to demonstrate the organization of creation theologically.

It shouldn't be shocking to notice that the first three days and the last three days act as parallels:

Day 1 - The separation of light and darkness ; Day 4 - sun, moon, and stars to inhabit and rule day and night.

Day 2 - The separation of waters above and waters below ; Day 5 - creatures to rule the sky and seas.

day 3 - The separation of dry land from the waters ; Day 6 - creatures to inhabit and rule the dry land.

The first three days are acts of organization by separation, making room, giving space.
The last three days are acts of filling those spaces with inhabitants, with their spheres.

With the final creative act being that of humankind, who are created to care, tend, and nurture the rest of creation, being created in God's image. God's representatives in the world He has made.

The structure of the text is a poetic framework.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Zetetica

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Every day I carry a device in my pocket that relies on wireless signals and satellites to function. But, sure, there's a solid dome up there and we haven't sent rockets and have satellites in orbit.

I suppose it's all just one big lie, and my phone relies on pixie dust to function.

-CryptoLutheran
That's great for you. Why is that relevant to this thread?
 
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Zetetica

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So ... you are very definitely defining the original LIGHT as DAY, even before the dividing ???

I would say that this language presents concepts (i.e. light, darkness, void, earth, heavens, etc.) ... and is, thus, not meant to convey exact information. It is to give you an idea of what God did ...

Genesis 1

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Actually, I didn't define the first light as "Day", God did in Genesis. Goodness, why are you trying to shove things into scripture which just aren't there? There is no Big Bang in scripture, no matter how you stretch it. I don't care if you use time dilation or any other thing, it's not written about in the Bible.
 
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ViaCrucis

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That's great for you. Why is that relevant to this thread?

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Strathos

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Actually, I didn't define the first light as "Day", God did in Genesis. Goodness, why are you trying to shove things into scripture which just aren't there? There is no Big Bang in scripture, no matter how you stretch it. I don't care if you use time dilation or any other thing, it's not written about in the Bible.

You know what else isn't written about in the Bible?

A flat earth.
 
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Zetetica

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All right, I've done a bit of study on Job 38:14, since it was brought up here as "globe proof".

Job 38:14: It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

First, this is NOT a verse which is about the Earth spinning. Now that that's out of the way, here is what it seems to be about:


Turned = Changed
Seal = Similar to a signet ring

e64d40d1ba938be8e8df8f4db4047042.jpg

Keeping it in context:


Job 38:12

Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; andcaused the dayspring to know his place;
Job 38:13

That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
Job 38:14

It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
Job 38:15

And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
Job 38:16

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From a useful resource site:

bible study tools said:
Job 38:13

That it might take hold of the ends of the earth
As when the morning light springs forth, it quickly does, reaching in a short time the extreme part of the hemisphere; which, and what goes before, may be applied to the light of the Gospel, and the direction of that under divine Providence in the several parts of the world, and unto the ends of it; see ( Psalms 19:4-6 ) ( Romans 10:18 ) ;

that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
the earth, by means of the light; which may be understood either of wicked men who have been all night upon works of darkness, and be take themselves on the approach of light to private lurking places, like beasts of prey, so that the earth seems to be, as it were, clear of them; or of their being taken up in the morning for deeds done in the night, and brought to justice, which used to be exercised in mornings, ( Jeremiah 21:12 ) ( Psalms 101:8 ) ; and so the earth rid of them: thus wicked men shun the light, of the Gospel, and are condemned by it; and in the latter day light and glory they will cease from the earth; see ( John 3:19 John 3:20 ) ( Psalms 10:16 ) ( 104:35 ) .

-------

Job 38:14

It is turned as clay [to] the seal
As the clay receives a different form by the impress of the seal upon it, so the earth appears in a different manner by the spring of morning light upon it; in the darkness of the night nothing of its form and beauty is to be seen; it is a mere "tohu" and "bohu", like the chaos, ( Genesis 1:2 ) ; its rising hills, and spreading dales, and beautiful landscapes, cannot be observed with pleasure; but when the light breaks forth in the morning, it is seen in all its beauty and glory: of the change the light of the Gospel makes in men, see ( 2 Corinthians 3:18 ) ;

and they stand as a garment;
or things stand upon it as a garment, as Mr. Broughton renders the words; herbs, plants, and trees, unseen in the night, stand up like a vesture to the earth in the morning light; and as they are clothed themselves, they are a garment to that, which now puts on another and beautiful habit; the pastures are clothed with flocks, and the valleys covered with corn, and the whole earth with light itself, as with a garment: and as beautifully do men made light in the Lord appear; see ( Isaiah 41:10 ) ( Revelation 3:4 Revelation 3:5 ) ( 12:1 ) .

-------

Job 38:15

And from the wicked their light is withholden
Whose light is darkness, and whose day is the night, of which they are deprived when the morning light breaks forth; see ( Job 24:17 ) ; it may be figuratively understood of the light of prosperity being removed from them, or the light of life, when they shall be sent into utter darkness;

and the high arm shall be broken;
their power weakened and made useless; even the power of such wicked men who have had a large share of it, and have used it in a tyrannical manner; and especially this will be their case at death; see ( Isaiah 14:10 Isaiah 14:12 ) .

Job 38:14 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible


The verses are dealing with the dry land and the morning light, not a spinning globe.
 
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