Is a 3rd future Temple needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?

dougangel · Feb 3, 2019

W2L said:
So if the church is the third temple of God, when and how will the anti Christ sit in it?

One possible interpretation is. That 2 thess could figurately mean He tries to take control of the worldwide church setting himself up as God as thess says.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20

Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honour God with your bodies

Mark 14:58

“We heard Him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 NIV
who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

jgr · Feb 3, 2019

dougangel said:
One possible interpretation is. That 2 thess could figurately mean He tries to take control of the worldwide church setting himself up as God as thess says.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20

Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honour God with your bodies

Mark 14:58

“We heard Him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 NIV
who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

The Reformers decrypted it.

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book IV, Chap. 7, Sect. 25…:

To some we seem slanderers and railers when we call the Roman pontiff “Antichrist.” But those who think so do not realize they are accusing Paul of intemperate language, after whom we speak, indeed, so speak from his very lips. And lest anyone object that we wickedly twist Paul’s words (which apply to another) against the Roman pontiff, I shall briefly show that these cannot be understood otherwise than of the papacy.”

“Paul writes that Antichrist will sit in God’s temple [II Thes. 2:4]. In another place, also, the Spirit, describing his image in the person of Antiochus, shows that this kingdom will consist in boasting and blaspheming of God [Dan. 7:25; Rev. 3:10; 13:5]. Hence, we infer that this is a tyranny more over souls than over bodies, which is raised up against the spiritual kingdom of Christ.”

“Secondly, that this tyranny is such as does not wipe out either the name of Christ or of the church but rather misuses a semblance of Christ and lurks under the name of the church as under a mask. All the heresies and sects which have been from the beginning belong to the kingdom of Antichrist. Nevertheless, when Paul foretells a falling away that is to come [II Thes. 2:3] by this description, he means that that seat of abomination will be raised up when a universal apostasy seizes the church, even though many scattered members of the church persevere in the true unity of faith. But Paul adds that in his time Antichrist began to undertake his work in the mystery of iniquity [II Thes. 2:7], which he was afterward to complete openly; by this we understand that this calamity was to be neither caused by one man, nor finished in one man.”

“Now, he designates Antichrist by this mark, that he will deprive God of his honor in order to take it upon himself [II Thes. 2:4]. We ought consequently to follow this as the chief indication in searching out Antichrist, especially when such pride leads even to the public scattering of the church. Since, therefore, it is clear that the Roman pontiff has shamelessly transferred to himself what belonged to God alone and especially to Christ, we should have no doubt that he is the leader and standard-bearer of that impious and hateful kingdom.”

claninja · Feb 5, 2019

Choose Wisely said:
Ezra 3.

Isaiah prophesied that specifically Cyrus would decree to rebuild the temple
Isaiah 44:28 who says of Cyrus, ‘My shepherd will fulfill all that I desire,’ who says of Jerusalem,
‘She will be rebuilt,’ and of the temple, ‘Let its foundation be laid.’”

Ezra states that Cyrus decreed for the temple to be rebuilt.
Ezra 1:2 This is what Cyrus king of Persia says: ‘The LORD, the God of heaven, who has given me all the kingdoms of the earth, has appointed me to build a house for Him at Jerusalem in Judah.

The altar was rebuilt in the 1st year of the 7th month from the return from exile
Ezra 3:3-4 They set up the altar on its foundation and sacrificed burnt offerings upon it to the LORD—both the morning and evening burnt offerings—even though they feared the people of the land.
They also celebrated the Feast of Tabernacles,a as it is written, and offered burnt offerings daily, based on the number prescribed for each day.

The building of the temple foundation began only a couple months after the altar was built
Ezra 3:8-10 In the second month of the second year after they had arrived at the house of God in Jerusalem, Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, Jeshua son of Jozadak, and the rest of their associates including the priests, the Levites, and all who had returned to Jerusalem from the captivity, began the work. They appointed Levites twenty years of age or older to supervise the construction of the house of the LORD. Jeshua and his sons and brothers joined together with Kadmiel and his sons, the descendants of Yehudah,b and with the sons of Henadad and their sons and brothers—all Levites—to supervise those working on the house of God. When the builders had laid the foundation of the temple of the LORD

If a 3rd temple being rebuilt was supposed to happen in a similar manner as when it did "the last time", why wasn't the temple rebuilt in the 7th month of the 1st year that Israel became a nation? why then wasn't the temple foundation laid starting in the 2nd month of the 2nd year when Israel became a nation?

**However, the current altar was built around March of 2015 and no foundation has yet been laid. So still not following your logic, it doesn't match up with Ezra's account.

Here is how the 1st temple came into being. David wanted to build a temple, but God said no to him building it. 1.) God spoke through Nathan that Solomon would build the temple. 2.)When Solomon became king he built a temple for God.

Here is how the 2nd temple came into being. 1.) God spoke through Isaiah stating that Cyrus would rebuild the temple. 2.) Cyrus then came onto the seen with end of the Babylonian captivity and decreed that the temple was to be rebuilt.

1.) So who does God speak through for the 3rd temple to be built? 2.) Who builds the temple?

1.)Zechariah prophesied of a 3rd temple being built by the Branch

Zechariah 6:12-13 And you are to tell him that this is what the LORD of Hosts says: ‘Behold, a man whose name is the Branch, and He will branch out from His place and build the temple of the LORD. Yes, He will build the temple of the LORD; He will be clothed in splendor and will sit on His throne and rule. There will also be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two of them.

2.) Jesus built it.

John 2:19 Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.”

Ephesians 2:19-21 Therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens of the saints and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. In Him the whole building is fitted together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord.

Choose Wisely said:
The feasts are harvest feasts. I think it means more than barley, wheat and fruit.

You are allowed to "think" that. But is there scripture to back it up that the rapture/resurrection of the first fruit occurs on Passover, gentiles on Pentecost, and 12 tribes on trumpets?

Choose Wisely said:
Sure it does. Jesus says that the Goodman will not know when He is coming. We are told that no man know the day nor the hour.

Correct, No man knows the day or hour; believer or unbeliever.

Matthew 24:42-44 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

But just as Noah was given a time frame, even though he did not know the exact hour the flood would start,
Genesis 7:4 For seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living thing I have made.”

So to were the disciples given a time frame along with signs to watch before the son of man would come.
Matthew 24:33-34 So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near,d right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.

Choose Wisely said:
And yet Paul says that day will not take those that are not in darkness by surprise.

The day of the Lord overtakes those who are in darkness, not those who are in the light.

1 thessalonians 5:4 But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. For you are all children of light, children of the day.

Those who are in darkness reject the time frame and signs given by Jesus, while those in light recognize the signs and time frame given by Jesus. Thus , even though they do not know the exact day or hour, the believer is not overtaken by surprise because he or she is ready, while the unbeliever who rejects Jesus and is not ready is definitely taken by surprise.

Choose Wisely said:
Jesus says that we will not know when He is coming and yet says there will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. He says look up your redemption draws nigh.

Correct, the disciples would not specifically know the day or hour of the coming, but they did know the time frame and when it would be near.

while Noah did know the day, did Noah know the exact hour ark would save him from the flood that took away all those not in the ark?

Choose Wisely said:
He is coming more than once. There will be more than one rapture.

You are entitled to your opinion, but these scriptures do not "prove" that opinion.

Choose Wisely said:
He compared His coming to the days of Noah, and we know that Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood. And he compared His coming to the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. There are two comings.

He used 2 stories to compare what his coming will be like.

Choose Wisely said:
Two comings. The Goodman will not know when the master will come in the 1st rapture. Whereas at the second rapture that day will not take the believer unaware.

Is the Goodman who serves the master faithfully unaware that the master will return?

Choose Wisely said:
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

I stated 1 Thessalonians 4 doesn't mention being raptured prior to the tribulation. you then reply, not with a verse from 1 thessalonians 4, but with a different book all together.......

Luke 21:36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

They were to escape these things by fleeing to the mountains and not going into Jerusalem when they saw it surrounded by armies.

Luke 21:20-21 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it,

keras · Feb 5, 2019

claninja said:
So who does God speak through for the 3rd temple to be built? 2.) Who builds the temple?

There must be a new Temple, for what is prophesied to take place in it. 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Revelation 11:1, Ezekiel 43:1-12
It won't be built by the Jewish State of Israel, they are still in apostasy and rejection of Jesus. Zechariah 6:15 says that people from far away will come to rebuild the Temple. They will be every faithful Christian from every race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 5:9-10
The Lord will approach our leaders. Jeremiah 30:21-22, Romans 9:24-26

Check out my new website- logostelso.info , for more articles on the Bible prophesies.

mkgal1 · Feb 5, 2019

keras said:
There must be a new Temple, for what is prophesied to take place in it. 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Revelation 11:1, Ezekiel 43:1-12

That has all already been fulfilled.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 New Living Translation (NLT)
4 He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.

[Fulfilled by Titus prior to 70 AD]

Revelation 11:1-2 New Living Translation (NLT)
The Two Witnesses
11 Then I was given a measuring stick, and I was told, “Go and measure the Temple of God and the altar, and count the number of worshipers. But do not measure the outer courtyard, for it has been turned over to the nations. They will trample the holy city for 42 months.

[Fulfilled in Spring AD 67 to the fall of the Temple in Sept 70, according to Ken Gentry]

Ezekiel 43:1-12 New Living Translation (NLT)
The Lord’s Glory Returns
43 After this, the man brought me back around to the east gateway.2 Suddenly, the glory of the God of Israel appeared from the east. The sound of his coming was like the roar of rushing waters, and the whole landscape shone with his glory. 3 This vision was just like the others I had seen, first by the Kebar River and then when he came to destroy Jerusalem. I fell face down on the ground. 4 And the glory of the Lordcame into the Temple through the east gateway.

5 Then the Spirit took me up and brought me into the inner courtyard, and the glory of the Lord filled the Temple. 6 And I heard someone speaking to me from within the Temple, while the man who had been measuring stood beside me. 7 The Lord said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place where I will rest my feet. I will live here forever among the people of Israel. They and their kings will not defile my holy name any longer by their adulterous worship of other gods or by honoring the relics of their kings who have died. 8 They put their idol altars right next to mine with only a wall between them and me. They defiled my holy name by such detestable sin, so I consumed them in my anger. 9 Now let them stop worshiping other gods and honoring the relics of their kings, and I will live among them forever.

10 “Son of man, describe to the people of Israel the Temple I have shown you, so they will be ashamed of all their sins. Let them study its plan,11 and they will be ashamed of what they have done. Describe to them all the specifications of the Temple—including its entrances and exits—and everything else about it. Tell them about its decrees and laws. Write down all these specifications and decrees as they watch so they will be sure to remember and follow them. 12 And this is the basic law of the Temple: absolute holiness! The entire top of the mountain where the Temple is built is holy. Yes, this is the basic law of the Temple.

[His glory returned in 70 AD - His parousia]

Quoting Apostolic preterist:
Ezekiel’s vision of the temple included copious details. His description was given before the second temple was built, but there was no attempt by the Jews who returned from the exile to follow his design. It was a much larger and more impressive structure than either the second temple, or the previous one built by Solomon. In comparison, the one actually built was not ideal, and would not be the temple which was to be filled with God’s glory, as promised for Ezekiel’s temple. [Ezekiel 43:5; 44:4]

Stephen said to the Jews, when Herod’s temple was standing, "Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands." [Acts 7:48] Paul said the same to the men of Athens. [Acts 17:24]

A temple is where people offer sacrifices to God. Some wonder why Ezekiel described an altar, and sacrifices, if his temple has to do with the Christian church, as those things have passed away; but in Hebrews we read, "We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle." [Hebrews 13:10]

In the New Testament, the saints are described as a temple. [Ephesians 2:20-22] They offer spiritual sacrifices. The sacrifices offered in Ezekiel’s temple must be types and figures of these spiritual offerings. Peter said, "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." [1 Peter 2:5]

Some claim that in the millennium, animal sacrifices will be resumed, but if you're going to read that literally that contradicts scriptures such as Isaiah 65:25, "The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD." How can animal sacrifices be offered, if nothing may be hurt there?

Jesus identified himself with the temple of God, and the Spirit was given to him beyond measure. [John 3:34] He said God’s temple is to be a house of prayer. [Luke 19:46, citing Isaiah 56:7] He said, "destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." [John 2:19] Since Jesus was raised up from the grave, the temple of God was revived, and ascended to heaven. ~ Ezekiel's Temple

claninja · Feb 5, 2019

keras said:
There must be a new Temple,

Agree, and the body of Christ is that temple.

keras said:
for what is prophesied to take place in it. 2 Thessalonians 2:4

Context Keras.

IF the temple mentioned in 2 thessalonians 4 is about a brick and mortar temple, then there was a giant brick and mortar temple standing when paul wrote this. WHICH WOULD BE THE IMMEDIATE CONTEXT. Paul does not mention the destruction of the present temple followed by 2000 years and the rebuilding future brick and mortar temple. If he did, then you would have a point.

keras said:
Revelation 11:1,

Jerusalem was trampled by zealots and edomites for 42 months leading up to its destruction by the Romans after a 5 month siege.

keras said:
Ezekiel 43:1-12

Using scripture to interpret scripture, we can clearly see that this temple is not a physical brick and mortar temple

How do we reconcile 2 contradicting passages that says God does not live in houses made by human hands and this (Ezekiel's prophetic temple) is the place of my throne and place for my feet?

Ezekiel's prophetic temple is where God's throne is and his feet rest, Heaven is God's throne and earth is his footstool, and WE are the temple of God.

Ezekiel 43:7 and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever.

Acts 7:48-49 However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says: ‘Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool.

2 Corinthians 6:16 For we are the temple of the living God

Thus, Ezekiel's prophetic temple is the body of Christ, whether they dwell on earth in the natural body (God's footstool) or in heaven in the resurrected body (God's throne).

keras said:
It won't be built by the Jewish State of Israel, they are still in apostasy and rejection of Jesus. Zechariah 6:15 says that people from far away will come to rebuild the Temple. They will be every faithful Christian from every race, nation and language.

Correct, it is not the Jewish state, for there is no command for the Jewish state to rebuild it.

Paul mentions those people who are from far away: the gentiles, that are no longer strangers and aliens but no also part of the temple of living God, where he dwells.

Zechariah 6:15 And those who are far off shall come and help to build the temple of the Lord.

Ephesians 2:19-22 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God bye the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 6:16 For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them
and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people.”

keras said:
The Lord will approach our leaders. Jeremiah 30:21-22,

what? where does it say that God will approach our Leaders?

This is clearly a reference to Christ coming from Israel "out from their midst" and God resurrecting Jesus and ascending him (approach) to the right hand.
Jeremiah 30:21 Their prince shall be one of themselves; their ruler shall come out from their midst; I will make him draw near, and he shall approach me, for who would dare of himself to approach me?

keras · Feb 5, 2019

claninja said:
what? where does it say that God will approach our Leaders?

Hosea 1:11 The people of Judah and of Israel will unite and choose for themselves a leader..... Judah; the Jewish people; Israel the Western peoples, now the Christian nations. Jeremiah 50:4-5
Jeremiah 30:21 A ruler will appear, one of themselves, [the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5]….. I will bring him near and let him approach Me....

We Christians will live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land, that is our destiny and our great privilege. We will be called; Sons of the Living God, in the same place that ethnic Israel was exiled from. Romans 9:24-26

As for the new Temple, the prophesied descriptions are for a physical building, not a spiritual one, as is the case during this Church age.
I have several articles on this subject at; logostelos.info

claninja · Feb 5, 2019

keras said:
Hosea 1:11 The people of Judah and of Israel will unite and choose for themselves a leader..... Judah;

This doesn't say God will approach the leader

hosea 1:11 And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and they shall appoint for themselves one head. And they shall go up from the land, for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

keras said:
Jeremiah 30:21 A ruler will appear, one of themselves, [the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5]….. I will bring him near and let him approach Me....

Again, this doesn't say God will approach the leader. It clearly states God will make the ruler, that comes out of the midst of Israel, approach God. This is clearly a reference to Christ.

Jeremiah 30:21 Their prince shall be one of themselves; their ruler shall come out from their midst;
I will make him draw near, and he shall approach me, for who would dare of himself to approach me?

keras said:
We Christians will live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land, that is our destiny and our great privilege. We will be called; Sons of the Living God, in the same place that ethnic Israel was exiled from. Romans 9:24-26

Where does the NT ever mention the land of Israel is where we will live? you can believe that, but I'll stick with Paul.

2 timothy 4:18 And the Lord will rescue me from every evil action and bring me safely into His heavenly kingdom. To Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

2 Corinthians 5:1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is dismantled, we have a building from God, an eternal house IN HEAVEN, not built by human hands

Hebrews 11:16 Instead, they were longing for a better country, a heavenly one.

keras said:
As for the new Temple, the prophesied descriptions are for a physical building,

I disagree, it's important to understand types and shadows, otherwise how can we ever understand the true spiritual reality.

Keras, when you are born again, do you literally come out of your mother's womb a 2nd time? Or does being born again not mean literally coming out your mother's womb? Doesn't it display a greater spiritual truth and not the literal act of coming out of a mother's womb?

LittleLambofJesus · Feb 5, 2019

keras said: ↑
There must be a new Temple, for what is prophesied to take place in it. 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Revelation 11:1, Ezekiel 43:1-12

mkgal1 said:
That has all already been fulfilled.

The Two Witnesses
11 Then I was given a measuring stick, and I was told, “Go and measure the Temple of God and the altar, and count the number of worshipers. But do not measure the outer courtyard, for it has been turned over to the nations. They will trample the holy city for 42 months.

[Fulfilled in Spring AD 67 to the fall of the Temple in Sept 70, according to Ken Gentry]In the New Testament, the saints are described as a temple. [Ephesians 2:20-22] They offer spiritual sacrifices. The sacrifices offered in Ezekiel’s temple must be types and figures of these spiritual offerings. Peter said, "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." [1 Peter 2:5]
Ezekiel's Temple

Great post mkgal!!!

That reminds me of a thread from some 10 yrs ago I bookmarked concerning "Scripture as my measure".

Scripture as my measure
Jun 10, 2008

Notice John is given the reed to measure the naos, the Altar and those worshiping inside [who are symbolizing the worshipers?]

Revelation 11:1
And was given to me a reed/<2563> like a rod/staff<4464> saying, `be rousing! and measure!<3354> the Dwelling/Naos<3485> of the God,
and the Altar
and the Ones-worshiping in it;
2 and the court/fold without of the Naos, be ye Casting-Out!! out-side, and thou mayest not be measuring<3354> it, that it was given to the nations,
and the Holy City they shall be trampling forty and two months;

In Revelation 21, it is the Messenger, using a golden reed, who measures the City, which doesn't have a Temple or Sanctuary in it.

Verse 17 says the wall is a measure of a Man, a Messenger

Revelation 21:15
And the One talking with me had a golden measure<3358> reed<2563>, that He should be measuring<3354> the City and the gates of Her and the wall of Her
16 And the City four-cornered<5068> is-lying, and the length of Her as much as the breadth.
And he measures<3354> the City to the reed on stadia<4712> twelve thousands the length and the breath and the height of Her is being equal
17 And he measures the wall of Her, hundred forty four of cubits,
measure of a Man<444>, which is being of a Messenger<32>.

Ephesian 3:
17 To dwell the Christ thru the Faith in the hearts of ye in Love, having been rooted and having been founded,
18 That ye should be being strong to be grasping/apprehending together to all the Saints what the breadth and length and height and depth ,
19 To know the transcending of the knowledge love of the Christ , that ye may be being filled into all filling of the God
==========================
Here is the site of the "Temple Man" for those interested. It shows more pictures and drawings which are really fascinating, at least to me.........

FIRST TEMPLE, Temple of ...

The High Priest as Temple Man
At left is the Temple Floor Plan transformed into a figure of the Levite High Priest; and within the figure are 13 red numbers briefly explained below. All are in sequence except nine (9).

......................................

Because their type and order parallel those of King Nebuchadnezzar’s metal statue below, which itself symbolizes an unholy, secular messianic world ruler.
For the interior gold plating of the Temple’s Holy of Holies, Holy Place and Porch, see I Kgs. 6:20 - 22 and II Chr. 3:4 -10. For the bronze furniture outside see I Kgs. 7:15 - 27, 38 and II Chr. 4:1 -7.This gives the Metallic Messiah a head, torso and pelvis of gold, but hands, legs and feet of bronze. His silver shoulders and arms relate to the silver plated walls ‘houses’ or ‘buildings’ (i.e., priestly cells) of I Chr. 29:4.

The floor plan: Does it reveal
a temple with a human form?

The First Temple, ie., the Temple of Solomon, Jerusalem Temple or Jewish Temple, may have been constructed in the hidden form of a man, i.e., as a human body temple figure. Its architectural floor plan in conjunction with the layout of its furnishings reveals a Temple Man composed of three biblical luminaries: Jacob, the Levitical High Priest, and a Metallic Messiah figure. All three appear in a single design with one figure imposed atop the other.

The measurements and description of the Temple (Heb., Beit HaMikdash) are given in the Tanach ( Old Testament ) in I Kings 6:1-35, and II Chronicles 3:1-17, which is still our best source of information about this ancient holy structure (circa 982 – 586 BC ); and based primarily on the above verses, various Jewish, Christian, and secular sources depict the holy house as a rectangular building with a triple-tiered row of cells on three of its sides: west, south, and north, with the entrance on the east, as shown at right. It should not be confused with the Second Temple started by King Herod about 20 BC and destroyed by the Romans in AD 70.

Also, some Jewish sources have tried finding a human figure within the Mishkan (tabernacle), see next page.
=============================================

Choose Wisely · Feb 5, 2019

claninja said:
If a 3rd temple being rebuilt was supposed to happen in a similar manner as when it did "the last time", why wasn't the temple rebuilt in the 7th month of the 1st year that Israel became a nation? why then wasn't the temple foundation laid starting in the 2nd month of the 2nd year when Israel became a nation?

I think 70 would be important.

claninja said:
1.)Zechariah prophesied of a 3rd temple being built by the Branch

A Branch from the house of David? A Branch Davidian?

claninja said:
The day of the Lord overtakes those who are in darkness, not those who are in the light.

1 thessalonians 5:4 But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. For you are all children of light, children of the day.

There is a difference between the rapture gathering that happen prior to the day of the Lord and the rapture that occurs before the tribulation. That is why they can escape ALL THE THINGS that will come to pass.......which are the seals......the white horse, false Christ.......The red horse...wars and rumors of wars.......the black horse.......famine and pestilence etc. We will escape ALL THE THINGS. After this tribulation is over they will say peace and safety and then sudden destruction will come, THE WRATH OF GOD.

claninja said:
Those who are in darkness reject the time frame and signs given by Jesus, while those in light recognize the signs and time frame given by Jesus. Thus , even though they do not know the exact day or hour, the believer is not overtaken by surprise because he or she is ready, while the unbeliever who rejects Jesus and is not ready is definitely taken by surprise.

And yet He will come in an hour that we think not. He is not saying that the world that doesn't believe in Him will not know. He says the Goodman will not know.

claninja said:
You are entitled to your opinion, but these scriptures do not "prove" that opinion.

claninja said:
Is the Goodman who serves the master faithfully unaware that the master will return?

The Goodman is instructed to watch. What are we watching for? Wars, famine, pestilence, signs in the sun, moon and stars. If that's the case, how can we escape ALL THE THINGS that will come to pass? How do we escape the hour of testing that will come on all the world?

claninja said:
I stated 1 Thessalonians 4 doesn't mention being raptured prior to the tribulation. you then reply, not with a verse from 1 thessalonians 4, but with a different book all together.......

Sorry, I was under the impression that......
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

claninja said:
Luke 21:36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

No wonder you are in DEEP confusion. The translation that you are using is expecting people to have the strength to escape. A correct translation says that you may be accounted worthy to escape. Big difference.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

claninja said:
They were to escape these things by fleeing to the mountains and not going into Jerusalem when they saw it surrounded by armies.

No, that's impossible. The false Christ, wars, famines and pestilence etc occur before the abomination of desolation is set up. Since we can escape ALL THE THINGS that come to pass you are clearly incorrect.

LittleLambofJesus · Feb 5, 2019

Choose Wisely said: ↑
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

claninja said: ↑
Luke 21:36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Choose Wisely said:
I think 70 would be important.
No wonder you are in DEEP confusion. The translation that you are using is expecting people to have the strength to escape. A correct translation says that you may be accounted worthy to escape. Big difference.
Since we can escape ALL THE THINGS that come to pass you are clearly incorrect.

Escape Stand .......

Daniel 12:1 and Luke 21 same event?

It is showing in Daniel 12:1, Matthew 24:44 and Revelation 6:17]

4422 malat maw-lat' a primitive root;
properly, to be smooth, i.e. (by implication) to escape (as if by slipperiness).....

Daniel 12:1
‘And at that time stand up doth Michael, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of thy people,
and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time,
and at that time do thy people escape<4422>, every one who is found written in the book.
1628. ekpheugo from 1537 and 5343;
to flee out:--escape, flee.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matthew 24:44

Notice, Jesus is speaking this to the 1st century Jews BEFORE 70 ad...

Matthew 24:44
For this reason, ye also must be ready,
because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect Him.
Luke 21:
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
36 “Yet be being vigilant/watching<69>, in every season<2540> beseeching<1189> that ye should be being prevailing/strong<2729> to be escaping<1628> all these, the being about to be becoming
and to stand before the Son of the Man.
[Malachi 3:2 Daniel 12:1 Revelation 6:17]

1Th 5:3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape<1628>.

Revelation 6:
16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us f from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17For the great day of their g wrath has come, and who is able to stand

Malachi 3:2
"But who can endure the day of His coming? And who is able to stand when He appears? For He [is] like a refiner's fire And like launderer's soap.

BABerean2 · Feb 6, 2019

Choose Wisely said:
How do we escape the hour of testing that will come on all the world?

First, it would require a person to know that an hour is not 7 years long.

Second, it would require a person to know that the Greek words for "tribulation" and "wrath" are not the same word.

Third, it would require a person to see that Christ will judge both the living and the dead at His return, as found in 2 Timothy 4:1.

Fourth, it would require a person to see that those who have been "born again" of the Spirit of God, belong to the judge found in John 5:27-30.
Your "hour" is found in that passage.

.

kkamagwi · Feb 6, 2019

disciple Clint said:
What would you do in the new temple? There is no longer any need to offer a sacrifice, Jesus has done that once and for all. The Ark of the Covenant is no longer required. Jesus is our High Priest and has no need of a temple here on earth. Jesus is our temple. So what would be the purpose? I must be missing something but I cant think of what it might be at the moment.

What is the purpose of the platypus.

Choose Wisely · Feb 6, 2019

BABerean2 said:
First, it would require a person to know that an hour is not 7 years long.

Check

BABerean2 said:
Second, it would require a person to know that the Greek words for "tribulation" and "wrath" are not the same word.

LOL - Since you know I know better.........it's just the usual tactic of presenting falsehood to lead others astray. How is it that you constantly, knowingly present things that are not the truth. No need to even look at your other points.

BABerean2 · Feb 6, 2019

Choose Wisely said:
LOL - Since you know I know better.........it's just the usual tactic of presenting falsehood to lead others astray. How is it that you constantly, knowingly present things that are not the truth. No need to even look at your other points.

You might want to base your doctrine on scripture, instead of an LOL...

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Others here are able to read the scripture for themselves, instead of believing what we say.

.

Choose Wisely · Feb 6, 2019

BABerean2 said:
You might want to base your doctrine on scripture, instead of an LOL...

LOL - Always twisting the truth. Why is it necessary for you to continually twist the truth? Can't your doctrine stand on truth?

BABerean2 said:
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Rom 11
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

BABerean2 said:
Others here are able to read the scripture for themselves, instead of believing what we say.

LOL - So you thinks it's ok to use falsehood to present your points as long as you post an out of context scripture that others can read.

LittleLambofJesus · Feb 6, 2019

kkamagwi said:
What is the purpose of the platypus.

Platypuses are kewl.........

Platypus | National Geographic
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/p/platypus/
The platypus is among nature's most unlikely animals. In fact, the first scientists to examine a specimen believed they were the victims of a hoax. The animal is ..........

Reminds me of this rather interesting, and sometimes humorous, thread concerning the "crocoduck".

Show Me The Crocoduck!!

Split Rock said:
Kirk Cameron (Ray Comfort's friend) has claimed that if evolution is true, then we should find a Crocoduck in the fossil record. That is, a creature that was half crocodile and half duck. However, since the theory of evolution does not claim crocodiles evolved into ducks, this would actually falsify evolution.

Now, you creationists claim that your god could create anything he wanted. Therefore, he could have created a Crocoduck, despite the fact that according to the theory of evolution, no such creature should have existed on earth. So, here is my demand. Show Me The Crocoduck! Show me a real fossil of the Crocoduck, or a real live Crocoduck. Show me, and I will become a Creationist!

Here is some background behind "The Crocoduck"

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

claninja · Feb 6, 2019

Choose Wisely said:
I think 70 would be important.

The current state of Israel has not been in exile for the last 70 years: different than Ezra 3

the current state of Israel built and altar and had it inaugurated in December of 2014. The foundation for the temple was not built a couple of months later: Different than ezra 3

Still not following your logic.

Choose Wisely said:
A Branch from the house of David? A Branch Davidian?

The branch is Jesus

Choose Wisely said:
There is a difference between the rapture gathering that happen prior to the day of the Lord and the rapture that occurs before the tribulation.

There is no scripture in the entire Bible that specifically states the church/believers will be "raptured" prior to the tribulation. There is, however, scripture that states to "flee" to mountains when the tribulation occurs.

Matthew 24:15-21 So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak. How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.

Choose Wisely said:
That is why they can escape ALL THE THINGS that will come to pass.......which are the seals......the white horse, false Christ.......The red horse...wars and rumors of wars.......the black horse.......famine and pestilence etc.

How do they "escape all these things" if Jesus tells them they will experience them?

Matthew 24:4-11 Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, and many false prophets will arise and mislead many

luke 21:12-16 But before all this they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors for my name’s sake. This will be your opportunity to bear witness. Settle it therefore in your minds not to meditate beforehand how to answer, for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict. You will be delivered up even by parents and brothersc and relatives and friends, and some of you they will put to death.

The only thing Jesus tells them to escape is the tribulation on Jerusalem.

Luke 21:20-21 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country stay out of the city

Choose Wisely said:
After this tribulation is over they will say peace and safety and then sudden destruction will come, THE WRATH OF GOD.

Where does it say that?

Choose Wisely said:
And yet He will come in an hour that we think not. He is not saying that the world that doesn't believe in Him will not know. He says the Goodman will not know.

While faithful servant does not know when he master returns, he is not surprised at the return for he knew it would happened and remained ready.

Matthew 24:46-47 Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of his household, to give the others their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

But if that same servant was wicked and wasn't ready for the return, he would be surprised when the master returned.

Matthew 24:48-50 But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’ And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day he does not anticipate and at an hour he does not expect

Thus it is very clear, that those who are faithful and always ready are not surprised that the master will return. And those that are wicked and not ready are surprised when the master returns.

Choose Wisely said:
The Goodman is instructed to watch. What are we watching for? Wars, famine, pestilence, signs in the sun, moon and stars. If that's the case, how can we escape ALL THE THINGS that will come to pass? How do we escape the hour of testing that will come on all the world?

those keeping watch can see the thief coming and prevent the thief from breaking into the house. Those who sleep and don't watch are surprised when the thief breaks in.

Matthew 24:43 But understand this: If the homeowner had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

Thus it is with Christ. Those keeping watch, while they don't know the specific day or hour, will be ready when Christ comes. Those who sleep and are not ready will be surprised when Jesus comes.

Choose Wisely said:
Sorry, I was under the impression that......
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So in other words, even though in post 182, you used 1 Thessalonians 4 as evidence for a pre trib rapture, you can't actually show us where in 1 thessalonians 4 it specifically mentions a rapture prior to the tribulation.

Choose Wisely said:
No wonder you are in DEEP confusion. The translation that you are using is expecting people to have the strength to escape. A correct translation says that you may be accounted worthy to escape. Big difference.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 21:36 So keep watch at all times, and pray that you may have the strength (katischuó) to escape all that is about to happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

The greek word for "you may have the strength" is katischuó (2729)

katischuó's definition: to overpower

However, the greek word for "you may be accounted worthy" is a different word. It is kataxioó (2661).

kataxioó definition: I deem (count) worthy.

Luke 20:35 those who are considered worthy (kataxioó) to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage

Choose Wisely said:
The false Christ, wars, famines and pestilence etc occur before the abomination of desolation is set up

Jesus mentions more false prophets during the great tribulation

Matthew 24:21-25 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand

Choose Wisely said:
Since we can escape ALL THE THINGS that come to pass you are clearly incorrect.

There is a clear contradiction in this, which you have not addressed, on one hand Jesus says "you" will hear of wars and rumors of war, see to it that no one deceives "you", "you" will be persecuted. But on the other hand, Jesus states pray that "you" may have the strength to escape "all these things". So how do we reconcile this?

I see 2 possibilities to reconcile this, but maybe you have a 3rd?

1.) the "all these things" specifically refers to the tribulation of Jerusalem only, and not the wars, famines, persecution, false prophets prior to the tribulation.

2.) Jesus also prayed for the "cup to pass", even though the cup didn't pass and was completely poured on him.

Additionally, it's interesting that Jesus states all these things are "about to" take place.
Luke 21:36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

LittleLambofJesus · Feb 6, 2019

claninja said:
Additionally, it's interesting that Jesus states all these things are "about to" take place.
Luke 21:36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Genesis 1:1 (YLT)
G3195 μέλλω (mellō), which occurs 110 times in 107 verses

Remember this thread?

MELLO (#3195) - The Dangerous Greek Word That Has Been Removed From Most English Translations

QUOTE"random person,

Part One - Greek: Mello
By Donald Hochner

This is the first of five articles examining the Greek words as used in the Bible.
We are going to look into the lexicons with the Greek word "mello" (with its root words) which means "to be about to be, to be the point of doing" (Analytical Greek Lexicon, p. 262; Arndt, p. 500; Thayer, p. 396).
I think this word "mello" is one of the most neglected English translations (NASB, KJV, NIV, etc.) of the eschatological passages in the NT. I was shocked to find out about this.

The English translators may be guilty of removing or distorting God's Holy Word (Deut. 4:2).
I believe it is because of the futurists' views that have affected or influenced translations of the Bible. This is pure eisegesis.

I am going to show you some eschatological passages. I am using NASB and you will see "[about]" which is in Greek text.
I would recommend you to check some books in Greek and English with the interlinear translation, "The New Englishman's Concordance and Lexicon" and "Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible."
These books may be very helpful for you. You will see why.

1. Matt. 3:7 & Luke 3:7 - "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath [about - mello] to come?" In this context, John the Baptist was preaching to the Jewish people. He warned the Jewish religious leaders about God's wrath to come shortly and it happened in 66-70 AD (3 1/2 years).
The Old Covenant temple and the city of Jerusalem were destroyed by the Roman armies.
Many Jewish people had been completely scattered or killed and all these things were fulfilled in 70 AD. See Daniel 12:7-13 and Luke 21:5-36.

2. Matt. 12:32 - "And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this (Old Covenant) age, or in the (New Covenant) age [about - mello] to come." Why did Jesus say it shall not be forgiven, either in this age OR the age about to come? He is speaking of sins committed in the time before the destruction of the Jewish temple before 70 AD ("this age") and afterward ("the age to come").
We will study the Greek word "age" which is "aion" in Part Five.

3. Matt. 16:27, 28 - "For the Son of Man is [about - mello] to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and WILL THEN RECOMPENSE EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." These passages are the most clear and straightforward from the mouth of Jesus Christ, otherwise He is a false prophet.
This is why I believe Jesus returned in the glory of His Father with the angels to take the Kingdom away from God's enemies and give it back to His Father who now is all in all.

4. Matt. 24:6 - "And you will [about to - mello] be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end." Jesus was speaking to His disciples in their GENERATION (Matt. 24:34).

5. Luke 21:36 - "But keep on alert at all times, praying in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to [mello] take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."
In this verse the NASB translators did not delete the Greek word "mello."
Notice the word "you" several times in this chapter where Jesus was speaking to His disciples, not to us or future third parties.

6. Acts 17:31 - "Because He has fixed a day in which He [is about to - mello] judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof all men by raising Him from the dead."
Paul made it very clear that God was ABOUT to judge the world in his generation. This is a strong case for the Preterist view of Scripture.

7. Acts 24:14, 15 - "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law, and that is written in the Prophets; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall [about to be - mello] a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."
Again, Paul made it very clear. He was expecting everything that written to be fulfilled very soon in his lifetime including the resurrection.
Throughout the NT, we have seen the proclamation of the fulfillment of Israel's promises for the gospel going "to the Jews first, then the Greek";
the on-going Post-Pentecost transition from the Old Covenant to the New which is a pervasive and emphatic testimony for first century imminence of the time of the end.

8. Acts 24:25 - "And as he was discussing righteousness, self-control and the judgment [about - mello] to come, Felix became frightened and said, "Go away for the present, and when I find time, I will summon you." Notice Felix became frightened.

9. Acts 26:22, 23 - "And so, having obtained help from God, I stand to this day testifying both to small and great, stating nothing but what the Prophets and Moses said was going [about - mello] to take place; that Christ was to suffer, and that by reason of His resurrection from the dead He should be the first to proclaim light both to Jewish people and to the Gentiles."
Notice Paul said the writings of the Prophets and Moses were about to be fulfilled.

10. Rom. 8:18 - "For I consider that sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is [about - mello] to be revealed to us."
Read the whole context in Rom. 8:18-25.

11. Rom. 8:38, 39 - "For I am convinced that neither death, not life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things [about - mello] to come, nor powers, nor height, not depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Notice things present (Mosaic Age) and things about to come (Messianic Age) are associated with death, life, angels, etc. which shall not able to separate us from the love of God.

12. 1 Cor. 3:21-23 - "So then let no one boast in men. For all things belong to you, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or things present or things [about - mello] to come; all things belong to you, and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God."
This is the same thing as in Rom. 8:38.

13. Eph 1:21 - "Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named not only this age, but also in the one [about - mello] to come."
It is very important to understand the meaning of "this age" (Old Covenant) and "the age about to come" (New Covenant) because it is the Jewish interpretation of eschatology. You will see this in my article in Part Five.

14. Col. 2:16, 17 - "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day, things which are a mere shadow of what is [about - mello] to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." These passages are the most important to understand the Old Covenant (Jewish festivals, ceremonial, promises, etc.) which was about to completed in Christ. Some futurists believe all these things were completed at the cross but it was not at the time of Paul's writing. So, obviously we don't practice these things for today because they were done away in 70 AD.

15. 2 Tim. 4:1 - "I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is [about - mello] to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom."
This verse would close the case against the Futurist's views. At Christ's return the wicked were judged and cast into eternal torment, the same place where all other wicked go at death.
The righteous inherited resurrection life back in the presence of God for the first time since Adam, the representative of the human race, lost it in the Garden. Resurrection life is Paradise restored (Rev. 2:7). Jesus (the tree of life) gave us the eternal life.

16. Heb. 1:13, 14 - "But to which of the angels has He ever said, "Sit at My right hand, until I make thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet?" Are they not all ministering spirits, send out to render service for the sake of those who will [about to - mello] inherit salvation?"
The enemies of Christ were the Jewish people (Luke 19:27, Rom. 11:28, Phil 3:2, 18, 19). Christ crushed the head of all enemies even Death, and sat down at the right hand of His Father to reign eternally, whose kingdom shall have no end. Notice all the saints since the Fall are ABOUT to inherit salvation (redemption) in heaven.

17. Heb. 2:5 - "For He did not subject to angels the world [about - mello] to come, concerning which we are speaking."
The Hebrew writer was discussing the Mosaic age that was "put into effect through angels" (Acts 7:53).
The new covenant world would be in subjection to Jesus, not angels. Note that the writer wrote to the first century audience "concerning which we are speaking." They did not see everything subject in Jesus because the 70 AD judgment had not yet occurred.

18. Heb. 9:11 - "But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things [about - mello] to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation."
Read in Heb. 8:6-13, 9:8-12, 15. At the time of writing, the earthly temple was still there and Christ the High Priest had not yet been disclosed from the holy place in heaven. In the OT, the high priest sacrificed the animal and then brought the blood into the holy of holies on the Day of Atonement.
When the high priest came out of the holy of holies, the actual atonement had been made (Leviticus 16:16-18). But the blood of bulls and goats did not take away sins (Heb. 10:4).
Jesus already came out of the holy place and brought all of His elect into the glory of God in heaven. That is why all the elect, physical, Israel were saved by the time the Parousia took place at the destruction of the Temple as it is written in Rom. 11:5, 25-29 (c.f. Heb. 9:15, 28).
Since then, all of God's elect are no longer subject to Death (condemnation) and Hades (separation from God's presence). I believe at death the elect shed their physical bodies, and continue living in their spiritual immortal bodies with God in heaven forever.

19. Heb. 10:1 - "For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things [about - mello] to come and not the very form of things, can never by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near."
The writer of Hebrews tried to remind the Jewish people about the promises of God which were about to be fulfilled in Christ.

20. Heb 10:27 - "But a certain terrifying exception of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will [about to - mello] consume the adversaries."
Again, the writer warned the Jewish people of their time to turn to Jesus Christ, otherwise they would face the wrath of God. Read Heb. 10:25-39. These verses are vivid.

21. Heb. 13:14 - "For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is [about - mello] to come."
Clearly, this verse is speaking of the New Jerusalem after the Old Jerusalem would be destroyed and rendered obsolete. Read Heb. 11:16, Rev. 21:1-7, 9-10.

22. 1 Peter 5:1 - "Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and partaker also of the glory that is [about - mello] to be revealed."
Peter understood and he was expecting the glory that was about to revealed. Remember, he was inspired by God. Read carefully in 1 Peter 1:4-13, 20; 2:6-8; 4:7.

23. Rev. 1:19 - "Write therefore the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall [about to - mello] take place after these things." In Rev. 1:9-20, these passages are "The things which you have seen."
In Rev. 2:1-3:22 are "The things which are," and then in Rev. 4:1-22:5 are "the things which are ABOUT [mello] to take place after these things."
There are only three sections and notice the last section was about to take place in John's generation. Read Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 7, 10, 12, 20. We must NOT attempt to explain away the statements of imminence. That is the rule of the interpretation.
Some try to use 2 Peter 3:8 to interpret the overwhelming abundance of the statements of imminence. However, their hermeneutic is unacceptable.

24. Rev 12:5 - "And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is [about - mello] to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and His throne."
It is clearly about Jesus who was caught up to God and His throne in heaven, not on the earth. In John's vision, Jesus was about to rule with a rod of iron.
====================
Here is a quote from Eusebius, the Christian historian in the late third century. This is what he wrote about James, the brother of the Lord, when James was in trial with the Jewish leaders, "And he (James) answered with a loud voice, 'Why do ye ask me respecting Jesus the Son of Man? He is now sitting in the heavens, on the right hand of great Power, and is about to come on the clouds of heavens.' in Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, p. 77 (emphasis mine).

So, the Preterist view is consistent with the Scriptures. Let the Scriptures interpret the Scriptures. Check the Greek words and some historians, and you will find the preterist view has the strongest case against any other eschatological views. I don't know how the Futurists would defend themselves with these passages which I have shown.
We ought to "be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15).

The Reformed Futurists (Amillennialism, Postmillennialism or Historic Premillennialism) cannot defend their eschatological views with dispensationalism, Charismatic and Pentecostal churches, Arminianism, Judaism, Liberal Theologians and the cults because they have some holes.
Reformed Preterists can make a big difference, no matter what others will think.

What do you think all of this so far, especially after examining the Greek word "mello"?

Hopefully this will help a lot and cause you to rethink the reasons for your eschatological view.

Soli Deo Gloria!

Part One - Greek: Mello

Erik Nelson · Feb 6, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Genesis 1:1 (YLT)
G3195 μέλλω (mellō), which occurs 110 times in 107 verses

Remember this thread?

MELLO (#3195) - The Dangerous Greek Word That Has Been Removed From Most English Translations

QUOTE"random person,

Part One - Greek: Mello

Awesome article thanks for that again. I do. Think. That perhaps Paul thought everything was going to occur. By about 70 ad. I think he basically told Felix that final judgment. Was about to occur?

But Revelation. Appears to expand and stretch out the eskota logical timeline. Babylon is destroyed. Easily interpretable as the events of the first Jewish war. And 70. AD .

But is significant amount of time elapses before the beast is destroyed. IE the Pagan Roman Empire is converted. And after that there is another 1000 years of Millennium. And after that there is still a little time of gog and Magog.

So assuming that all New Testament Scripture is correct. Then the Olivet discourse. Must be stretched over. The ask at a logical timeline of Revelation. Some events clearly correlate with the fall of Babylon. Symbolizing apostate Jerusalem. The rest, obviously applies to final judgment. At the end of earth time in revelation 20:9+

somewhere around. Verse 34 in Matthew 24. Jesus hits the Fast forward button. And skips ahead from revelation 18. To revelation 20.

But I very often do get the impression. That when Jesus spoke those words a top. Mount Olivette. Just outside Jerusalem. That many early Christians perhaps including Saint Paul himself. THOUGHT that everything was going to occur. Within their lifetime.

What they thought would be cold today hyper preterism or full preterism? And sometimes I think. That, it was there. Hyper preterist belief. Although I'm using that term. 2000 years later, Anachronistic Lee.

But what they believed if true, would be considered hyper preterism today and it was that hyper preterism that so motivated them to evangelise the whole entire Roman Empire and as Far East as India and perhaps China. All before the first Jewish war.

But 2 Peter 3 and revelation. Clearly. Prepare first century Christians for the long, long haul. Those books clearly say it may be thousands of years before final judgment.

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Tangential thought. If, Elijah returned. As John the Baptist. Does that say anything about the return of the Messiah? But I guess the full fledged out in out Second Coming. Will come from heaven? And so it will be very obvious. And hard or impossible to miss.

Is a 3rd future Temple needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?

Is a future Temple in Jerusalem needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?

No. We are now the Temple/Sanctuary of God: 1 Corinthians 3:16

Yes. It is needed for the future "Man of Sin" to sit in: 2 Thess 2:4

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