A Separate Nation for Blacks

tulc said:

Wow...a raising black Chicago politician meeting with a famous black Chicago religious leader...I'm shocked)
tulc(and once again a 14 year old picture is trotted out)

Click to expand...

This objection rings hollow from the side that demanded that unfounded accusations about something that is claimed to have taken place more than three decades ago, cost a qualified jurist a SCOTUS-seat.

Would you have been so understanding if it had been Trump photographed being chummy with the "grand dragon" (or whatever the fudge the leader of the KKK calls himself/herself/chopperself)?

I'm guessing not

Ana the Ist said:

While that sounds like a good compromise....land that can't be bought won't increase in value.

Click to expand...

So? As long as people can do with the land what they need to do with the land.

Ana the Ist said:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this.

Click to expand...

One of my examples was that people be allowed to build a house (and pass it on to their kids).

Ana the Ist said:

Is there some point that the article makes that you'd like to discuss?

Or are you just doing surveys on how well I remember it?

Click to expand...

Not really, I already pointed out something you seem to have forgotten/not noticed about the article.
tulc(thinks it seems pretty obvious)

Ana the Ist said:

Well if we go wayyyy back to that first Portuguese merchant who brought an African slave back to Europe.....we can find the Pope weighing in on it. His opinion was that as long as the slaves weren't Christian, it wasn't a sin, and in fact could be seen as an opportunity to save the souls of pagan Africans.

Regardless, the "necessary evil" argument you're talking about prior to the 1830s was really just a response to abolitionists who were trying to influence politicians and the law. There's plenty of evidence that actual slave owners believed that not only was it not evil....but they were essentially doing their slaves a great favor by bringing them "to a state they could not achieve on their own in nature".

My question though, is what did you mean by "the difference is that Christians knew better"? Difference between who? African slavers? Muslim slavers?

Click to expand...

The difference between the Christians and the non-Christians.

Ana the Ist said:

What does the "unorganized movement" do?

Click to expand...

Maybe they'll show up at a rally. Maybe they'll vote.

Ana the Ist said:

Why would you call me racist? I've never said anything racist on here.



Except that 80% of the black community does support them.

Click to expand...

No.

"...the community indeed agrees with the ethos that "blacks lives matter" in the sense that the lives of blacks should be protected under the law as everyone else, but they're clearly not getting behind these guys or looking to BLM for guidance on this issue."

Francis Drake said:

Interesting response.
The accusation of racism is always directed at whites, but when it rightly gets turned back on racist blacks everyone starts squealing "unfair unfair".
My point being that blacks today are just as racist as whites, except for the fact that blacks get both official and unofficial protection, as your knee jerk response illustrates.

Its like the whole issue of slavery. Nobody is in doubt regarding the guilt of the whites involved, but black Africans and Arabs were both trading in black slaves captured from neighbouring villages long before Europeans were involved.

And nobody mentions the devastating raids by north African slavers on European coastal communities. Sometimes whole villages were captured and carted off into the slave markets of Africa. As indeed happened in South West England.

Click to expand...

We are all descendants of slaves and people in even worse situations than that.
And we are all descendants of tyrants and oppressors too.
That is all part of the human condition.
I tried to watch a movie of Malcolm X once. The first part of the movie started with a long tirade against white people. I couldn't help but think that if this Malcolm X had been born white, he would have the personality that would be suitable for a grand wizard. And that is when I changed the channel.

SolomonVII said:

We are all descendants of slaves and people in even worse situations than that.
And we are all descendants of tyrants and oppressors too.
That is all part of the human condition.
I tried to watch a movie of Malcolm X once. The first part of the movie started with a long tirade against white people. I couldn't help but think that if this Malcolm X had been born white, he would have the personality that would be suitable for a grand wizard. And that is when I changed the channel.

Click to expand...

If he had been born white he would have had a different childhood.

And if you'd continued the movie, you would have discovered that after his pilgrimage to Mecca, he greatly modified his views of white people in general.

The tragic thing is that Malcolm was correct about urban blacks needed a radical cultural reformation, right down to how they viewed and followed God. He was wrong about Islam being the way, but the extent that urban blacks needed a radical reformation included how they viewed God.

Ana the Ist said:

There absolutely is evidence of oppressive slavery tactics in Africa. Do you think the slaves who built the pyramids were working in shifts? That they got hour long lunch breaks lol?

You should read this....it was common for African slaves to die in shackles on their march to the coast before they ever even saw a European. Those slaves who did not sell...were typically beheaded on the spot.

The reality was that slavery amongst Africans was brutal....just as it was amongst native Americans.

It's Time to Face the Whole Truth About the Atlantic Slave Trade | History News Network

Click to expand...

structures were built by POW(prisoners of war) slaves most likely.

this article attempts to tell everyone the "shocking revelation" that africans owned slaves. every organized civilization had a servitude class...including Africa. that's not news. slaves were either willful participants or POWs, which is, again, in line with Hebrew slave law. laws for slaves are laid out in the bible and the LORD didn't create slavery, He merely regulated a practice that was already going on around the world.

my question was asking for evidence of how africans treated their slaves. was their anything equivalent to jim crowe, casual killing laws, vagrancy laws, black codes, meritorious manumissions, the dred scott decision, making it unlawful to teach slaves how to read, rape and murder of slaves, etc? did the africans who sold them know about any of these things and instruct the buyers to treat them in this manner?

if not, then the point is merely a deflection.

RDKirk said:

but the extent that urban blacks needed a radical reformation included how they viewed God.

Click to expand...

What radical reformation are you suggesting?

Ana the Ist said:

Well he's at it again, old Louis Farrakhan wants a separate blacks-only nation.

Louis Farrakhan calls for separate state for Black Americans, says that's 'what God wants'

What do you think?

Click to expand...

I always raise an eye brow, when anyone claims they know what a god wants.

LaBèlla said:

What radical reformation are you suggesting?

Click to expand...

Malcolm X challenged our belief in Jesus. Why did we believe in Him? Why did we believe what we believed? Who told us? Why should we believe what they told us, given how they live and how they treat us?

I have lived in other places where Christianity is not filtered through Western thought, and the way "church is practiced" in places where Christianity is not the default religion is distinctly different even with the same theology. There are entire Christian orthodoxies a thousand or more years old that did not spring from Western Christianity. We needed to look at those.

Along with cultural reformation--which probably should not be along "American" lines, because American culture is not conducive to our survival--we would have to look at whether there was some other way we should have been "doing church."

For instance, what would it look like if 2 Corinthians 8: 12-16 were actually part of the African-American culture within America? There are actually some other immigrant cultures who do practice that in some facets of their "American experience"--although 2 Corinthians 8: 12-16 is so distinctly non-American that American pastors refuse to preach it.

RDKirk said:

Malcolm X challenged our belief in Jesus. Why did we believe in Him? Why did we believe what we believed? Who told us? Why should we believe what they told us, given how they live and how they treat us?

Click to expand...

The spiritual issues related to slavery were never addressed. If you want break a yoke you need to tackle it on several planes. Civil rights doesn't release you from the tentacles of mental and emotional bondage. They remain and should be tackled on the spiritual plane for their defeat and holy replacement. Otherwise, you replicate the problem.

I have lived in other places where Christianity is not filtered through Western thought, and the way "church is practiced" in places where Christianity is not the default religion is distinctly different even with the same theology. There are entire Christian orthodoxies a thousand or more years old that did not spring from Western Christianity. We needed to look at those.

Click to expand...

I suppose. I am not reliant on the church in that way. I lean on the Lord. I don't expect men to behave. I expect them to do what their flesh wants in most instances. I have never sought acceptance in Christian circles or the church. I think that's a slippery slope. But I may be more indifferent than most.

I get what you're saying. But oftentimes life requires adaptation. So I pivot and take a different approach.

Along with cultural reformation--which probably should not be along "American" lines, because American culture is not conducive to our survival--we would have to look at whether there was some other way we should have been "doing church."

Click to expand...

American culture is difficult if you lack the tools for assimilation and you buy into the American Dream. Both are pitfalls of different stripes. The key is understanding how to survive and thrive without destroying yourselves in the process.

For instance, what would it look like if 2 Corinthians 8: 12-16 were actually part of the African-American culture within America? There are actually some other immigrant cultures who do practice that in some facets of their "American experience"--although 2 Corinthians 8: 12-16 is so distinctly non-American that American pastors refuse to preach it.

Click to expand...

That's a different animal altogether. You have to embrace a philosophy of being your brother's keeper. You'd need to regard him with love and respect and that's absent. I've heard discussions about this but I don't believe it's prevalent in the Black community.

It is a staple of Jewish culture. We view abundance as an opportunity and requirement to bless others in need. It's not an option. More importantly, the suffering of fellow Jews isn't ignored. Giving is a part of daily living in a synagogue as are our holidays. It is a philosophy of 'we' and the oneness we're supposed to have in the church. We may differ on many topics but when the rubber meets the road we're one.

If African-Americans adopted a similar philosophy things would improve. But there's too much 'I' and self in the population to make it happen.