Love

kkamagwi · Feb 6, 2019

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
I agree. But doesn't that mean that everyone would make it to heaven after all? If it was God saying "I will" after I prayed for him to save everyone, wouldn't that contradict the whole thing about not everyone will make it to heaven if he saves everyone?

*gives head a shake* What?

Halbhh · Feb 6, 2019

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
I agree. But doesn't that mean that everyone would make it to heaven after all? If it was God saying "I will" after I prayed for him to save everyone, wouldn't that contradict the whole thing about not everyone will make it to heaven if he saves everyone?

All have a chance, all could be saved, but not all will take the path He is --

1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business.6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.

13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

Matthew 22 NIV

We cannot assess who will and who will not even, but can only say Christ Jesus is the way, the truth, the Life.

He said:

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

Matthew 7 NIV (It's very good to read this whole chapter many times, such as 8 or 12 times in 5 or 10 years, and the best to is often to be reading through entirely the gospel from chapter 1, because John 10:27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. )

aiki · Feb 6, 2019

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
Love. God is Love.

Amen. But, the Bible says this about God in only two places, and those two places are both in the same chapter (the 4th chapter) of 1 John. In contrast, the Bible speaks of God's holiness hundreds of times. The Bible emphasizes His holiness far more than His love. Far more. We read in Scripture of God's holy mountain, His holy throne, His holy word, His holy Spirit, His holy kingdom, His holy angels and so on. But you'll not find mention of God's loving throne, or His loving mountain, or His loving kingdom in the Bible. The cherubim before God's throne eternally proclaim God's holiness, not His love. They say, "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty," not "Love, love, love..." (Revelation 4:8) I think, then, that while it is good to remember that God is love, it is a mistake to regard His love as His preeminent quality. It seems to me that Scripture indicates that, before all else, God is holy.

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
As Christians we are called to love others and forgive the ones who do us harm.

Yes, we are. But we love in truth (1 John 3:18), God's truth, which commands us to be holy and discerning, rejecting evil and embracing what is right, and pure, and Christ-centered. We are, in fact, to love God's truth and to defend it from corruption and those who would wrest it to evil ends. We might forgive the heretic, but we must not ever tolerate his heresy. Love - godly love - never requires that we compromise one iota with what is false or ungodly.

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
He loves us with all he has, unconditionally.

Hmmm...Are you sure about that? It seems to me, God offers His love to us under very particular conditions: repentance, faith, Self-denial, humility, and obedience are all required of those who would fully enjoy a love-relationship with God.

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
So, when I look on threads throughout this forum, why am I not seeing very much love?

Well, what sort of an expression of love are you expecting? God does not command His children to accept whatever comes along, tolerating sin and falsehood for the sake of unity. You might consider 1 Corinthians 5 as an example. Or, you might recall Christ's description of the Pharisees as "white-washed tombs full of dead men's bones," or "brood of vipers," or "sons of hell." These don't seem particularly "loving" things to call anyone, eh? And yet, Christ did not hesitate to castigate the Pharisees with such language. Was he being unloving when he did? Or is godly love perhaps rather different than what many modern Christians believe it to be? Maybe it's a whole lot more holy and inflexible and a lot less sentimental and mushy than the modern Christian thinks it is.

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
It's mostly arguments, debates, and to be honest it hurts me to see this.

Arguments and debate are not in-and-of themselves unloving things. In fact, they are vital to arriving at sound beliefs and well-reasoned doctrine. How those arguments and debates are handled might be unloving, though.

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
So I have one question for everyone who sees this. Do you truly love God? Because if you do you would obey Jesus, and love each other.

Well, here's the ironic thing: In criticizing others for not being loving enough, you become the very thing you criticize. Someone could point a finger at you and say, "Hey, where do you get off telling me I'm not loving! How dare you question if I love God! You're being quite unloving in saying such things! Shame on you!" Would they be right? Or, maybe, love requires the kind of criticism and judgment you're leveling at others on CF - the very sorts of things you object to as unloving.

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
I'm just not seeing it here, there are a few people a remnant on CF, that I know have the love of Christ in their hearts, but as for the rest, I just don't know.

Couldn't such a criticism of the majority of posters on this site be construed as unloving? Even by your own standard it would seem so.

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
I'm not a coward who just leaves things as they are if things are not right.

I won't give up. Never. Not until I see unification of the church.

I made three promises to God, and I intend to keep them.

I will love the Lord my God and all he loves with all my heart, soul, and might, and with everything I have and am. Always and Forever and Forever unto Eternity.

I will not harm anyone in any way, shape, or form.

I will do what is right, no matter the cost.

There's a whole lot of YOU in these statements. This is never a good sign spiritually. You and your determination aren't what are important; God is. He wants to act through you rather than you acting for Him. If you aren't careful and remain wholly dependent upon God to live as He has called you to, you'll find yourself at some point falling flat on your face like Peter did when he denied Christ three times right after proclaiming that he would never do such a thing!

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
If you love God, then what are you willing to give up for him?

All that He requires I give up. How about you?

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
If you believe in the Cross of Christ, then what will you do about it? Faith without works is dead. You need to love God with your life.

Yes, I know. And so do you. Are you loving God with your life? I am. And more and more as He makes me a vessel "sanctified and meet for His use."

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
So, my question is, honestly speaking, what will it take to unify the church?

The Second Coming of Christ.

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich · Feb 6, 2019

aiki said:
Amen. But, the Bible says this about God in only two places, and those two places are both in the same chapter (the 4th chapter) of 1 John. In contrast, the Bible speaks of God's holiness hundreds of times. The Bible emphasizes His holiness far more than His love. Far more. We read in Scripture of God's holy mountain, His holy throne, His holy word, His holy Spirit, His holy kingdom, His holy angels and so on. But you'll not find mention of God's loving throne, or His loving mountain, or His loving kingdom in the Bible. The cherubim before God's throne eternally proclaim God's holiness, not His love. They say, "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty," not "Love, love, love..." (Revelation 4:8) I think, then, that while it is good to remember that God is love, it is a mistake to regard His love as His preeminent quality. It seems to me that Scripture indicates that, before all else, God is holy.

Yes, we are. But we love in truth (1 John 3:18), God's truth, which commands us to be holy and discerning, rejecting evil and embracing what is right, and pure, and Christ-centered. We are, in fact, to love God's truth and to defend it from corruption and those who would wrest it to evil ends. We might forgive the heretic, but we must not ever tolerate his heresy. Love - godly love - never requires that we compromise one iota with what is false or ungodly.

Hmmm...Are you sure about that? It seems to me, God offers His love to us under very particular conditions: repentance, faith, Self-denial, humility, and obedience are all required of those who would fully enjoy a love-relationship with God.

Well, what sort of an expression of love are you expecting? God does not command His children to accept whatever comes along, tolerating sin and falsehood for the sake of unity. You might consider 1 Corinthians 5 as an example. Or, you might recall Christ's description of the Pharisees as "white-washed tombs full of dead men's bones," or "brood of vipers," or "sons of hell." These don't seem particularly "loving" things to call anyone, eh? And yet, Christ did not hesitate to castigate the Pharisees with such language. Was he being unloving when he did? Or is godly love perhaps rather different than what many modern Christians believe it to be? Maybe it's a whole lot more holy and inflexible and a lot less sentimental and mushy than the modern Christian thinks it is.

Arguments and debate are not in-and-of themselves unloving things. In fact, they are vital to arriving at sound beliefs and well-reasoned doctrine. How those arguments and debates are handled might be unloving, though.

Well, here's the ironic thing: In criticizing others for not being loving enough, you become the very thing you criticize. Someone could point a finger at you and say, "Hey, where do you get off telling me I'm not loving! How dare you question if I love God! You're being quite unloving in saying such things! Shame on you!" Would they be right? Or, maybe, love requires the kind of criticism and judgment you're leveling at others on CF - the very sorts of things you object to as unloving.

Couldn't such a criticism of the majority of posters on this site be construed as unloving? Even by your own standard it would seem so.

There's a whole lot of YOU in these statements. This is never a good sign spiritually. You and your determination aren't what are important; God is. He wants to act through you rather than you acting for Him. If you aren't careful and remain wholly dependent upon God to live as He has called you to, you'll find yourself at some point falling flat on your face like Peter did when he denied Christ three times right after proclaiming that he would never do such a thing!

All that He requires I give up. How about you?

Yes, I know. And so do you. Are you loving God with your life? I am. And more and more as He makes me a vessel "sanctified and meet for His use."

The Second Coming of Christ.

Wow, you answered all of my questions so accurately! Thank you! I love it when people make me think deeply about something. I agree completely.

W2L · Feb 6, 2019

Funny that you posted this because i was just thinking the same thing today and felt pretty poorly about it.

W2L · Feb 6, 2019

timothyu said:
The purest form of love.. nothing in it for yourself. Think of it as the fuel of the universe and as being unconditional.

Not to start a debate, but im not so sure thats what Agape means. The pharisees loved (agape) the best seats in the house and their long robes, but that was not selfless love.

W2L · Feb 6, 2019

kkamagwi said:
Who do you imagine will answer, "No?"

I will say this - God loves me a gazillion times more than I love God.

Me too, sadly i love him because He loves me, not exactly selfless on my part, but God loves me anyway.

timothyu · Feb 6, 2019

W2L said:
Not to start a debate, but im not so sure thats what Agape means. The pharisees loved (agape) the best seats in the house and their long robes, but that was not selfless love.

What does agape have to do with vanity? Nothing. What you describe is more lust for power or attention. None of the four types of love covers arrogance of the priests

UnprofitableServant · Feb 7, 2019

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
Love. God is Love. Jesus Christ died because he loved us, and wanted to do the will of the Father, who again is Love. As Christians we are called to love others and forgive the ones who do us harm. Truth be told it is very difficult to do so, but to God it is simple as can be, and it holds the same weight to him as it does to us. He loves us with all he has, unconditionally. So, when I look on threads throughout this forum, why am I not seeing very much love? It's mostly arguments, debates, and to be honest it hurts me to see this. When I first joined this forum, I was told that I would never see unity on this site, I'm starting to think that person was right.

So I have one question for everyone who sees this. Do you truly love God? Because if you do you would obey Jesus, and love each other. I'm just not seeing it here, there are a few people a remnant on CF, that I know have the love of Christ in their hearts, but as for the rest, I just don't know. Still I'm not a coward that I would leave things as they are, and not try to change things. I'm not a coward who just leaves things as they are if things are not right.

I won't give up. Never. Not until I see unification of the church.

I made three promises to God, and I intend to keep them.

I will love the Lord my God and all he loves with all my heart, soul, and might, and with everything I have and am. Always and Forever and Forever unto Eternity.

I will not harm anyone in any way, shape, or form.

I will do what is right, no matter the cost.

If you love God, then what are you willing to give up for him? If you believe in the Cross of Christ, then what will you do about it? Faith without works is dead. You need to love God with your life.

So, my question is, honestly speaking, what will it take to unify the church?

I seriously want to know.

The only thing that can unify the church is Christ.

We need to submit to Jesus' authority as the final authority. If not, the church will continue to be divided. Jesus taught and practiced that there is no greater love than giving your life for someone else. Does he mean we must give our life for others? Of course! But that is just the end result.

Every day we must die to our own desires in order to help those around us. We must "die daily" and give our lives for our brothers and sisters daily if we want to fulfill the same love that Jesus has.

Amen?

W2L · Feb 7, 2019

timothyu said:
What does agape have to do with vanity? Nothing. What you describe is more lust for power or attention. None of the four types of love covers arrogance of the priests

Actually the bible says the pharisees agape the best seats in the house, so yes love covers their actions. Its what they love that is in question.

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich · Feb 7, 2019

UnprofitableServant said:
The only thing that can unify the church is Christ.

We need to submit to Jesus' authority as the final authority. If not, the church will continue to be divided. Jesus taught and practiced that there is no greater love than giving your life for someone else. Does he mean we must give our life for others? Of course! But that is just the end result.

Every day we must die to our own desires in order to help those around us. We must "die daily" and give our lives for our brothers and sisters daily if we want to fulfill the same love that Jesus has.

Amen?

Amen!

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich · Feb 7, 2019

W2L said:
Actually the bible says the pharisees agape the best seats in the house, so yes love covers their actions. Its what they love that is in question.

I would prefer if you were to debate take it elsewhere. When you argue over the bible, no one wins in the end. Just letting you know that this thread is supposed to be about the OP, and not a debate. If you think about it though, how priests agaped the seats sounds to me like they had a similar love to God's love for us, but just in the wrong direction. My guess is that God's Agape is just on a level far and way beyond the priests agape for their seats, same type of love, but on a vastly far different level. And again that's just a guess.

So far I've had all of my questions answered. The Church won't unify until the Second Coming. So I have a deadline, a time limit so to speak, in which I should help others and love them by being myself, and letting Christ live in and through me. Agape love can be shared in with God, and depending on the person, there can be different levels of Agape with God's Agape being the Highest and purest and Most Powerful form of Agape.

Sound right to everyone?

W2L · Feb 7, 2019

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
I would prefer if you were to debate take it elsewhere. When you argue over the bible, no one wins in the end. Just letting you know that this thread is supposed to be about the OP, and not a debate. If you think about it though, how priests agaped the seats sounds to me like they had a similar love to God's love for us, but just in the wrong direction. My guess is that God's Agape is just on a level far and way beyond the priests agape for their seats, same type of love, but on a vastly far different level. And again that's just a guess.

So far I've had all of my questions answered. The Church won't unify until the Second Coming. So I have a deadline, a time limit so to speak, in which I should help others and love them by being myself, and letting Christ live in and through me. Agape love can be shared in with God, and depending on the person, there can be different levels of Agape with God's Agape being the Highest and purest and Most Powerful form of Agape.

Sound right to everyone?

Sure, no problem, this isnt a debate forum anyway.

timothyu · Feb 7, 2019

W2L said:
pharisees agape

43 Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.

timothyu · Feb 7, 2019

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
there can be different levels of Agape with God's Agape being the Highest and purest and Most Powerful form of Agape.

Sound right to everyone?

Four types of love... eros, philia, storge and agape. Agape is agape. I fail to see levels. Explain? Curious

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich · Feb 7, 2019

We'll it does say in the bible that the priests agaped the best seats. So I was trying to make sense of it. So either the bible made a mistake or there must be different magnitudes to each love.

timothyu said:
Four types of love... eros, philia, storge and agape. Agape is agape. I fail to see levels. Explain? Curious

timothyu · Feb 7, 2019

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich said:
We'll it does say in the bible that the priests agaped the best seats.

Where? I have not seen one authorized passage that uses any word but love

Luke 11:43 - Bible Gateway

Matthew 23:6 They love the places of honor at banquets, the chief seats in the synagogues,

W2L · Feb 7, 2019

timothyu said:
Where? I have not seen one authorized passage that uses any word but love

Luke 11:43 - Bible Gateway

Luke 11:43 uses the word agape.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/luk11.pdf

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich · Feb 7, 2019

timothyu said:
Where? I have not seen one authorized passage that uses any word but love

Luke 11:43 - Bible Gateway

Matthew 23:6 They love the places of honor at banquets, the chief seats in the synagogues,

I remember reading those verses a while ago, and just now did some research on it, real quick like. I'm sorry I was wrong, I admit it. I was confused. That's what happens when I try to remember verses by heart, instead of fact checking first, I guess. It won't happen again. I read from the KJV Authorized so I couldn't find agape anywhere.

Edit: Fixed a mistake. I had a thought and it came out on paper when it shouldn't have.

Coleton Bryce Ritmanich · Feb 7, 2019

Just to make sure, W2L, what version are you reading from, and is it an Authorized version?

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