Are we that close to socialism?

Allandavid · Feb 5, 2019

disciple Clint said:
Take Heed that no man deceives you!

This is based on Alinsky’s eight steps from democracy to socialist society.

Obama quotes him often in his book and Hillary did her thesis on Alinsky.

ALMOST DONE. JUST ONE ELECTION DECIDES OUR FATE… ALMOST THERE
There are 8 levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a socialist/communist State. The first is the most important
5 OF THE 8 ARE DONE – THE LAST 3 ARE ALMOST THERE

1. Healthcare: “Control Healthcare and you control the People” DONE !!

2 Poverty: Increase the Poverty level as high as possible.” Poor People are easier to control and will not fight back if the government is providing everything for them to live. DONE!!!

3. Debt: Increase the National Debt to an unsustainable level.” That way you are able to increase Taxes, and this will produce more Poverty. DONE!!!

4. Gun Control: Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a Police State – total local control. ALMOST THERE!!!

5. Welfare: Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Livestock, Housing, and Income). DONE!!!

6. Education: Take control of what People read & listen to; take control of what Children learn in School.
ALMOST THERE!!!

7. Religion: Remove faith in God from the Government and Schools.
ALMOST THERE!!!

8. Class Warfare: Divide the People into the Wealthy against the Poor. Racially divide. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to Tax the Wealthy with full support of
the voting Poor.
DONE!!! The bases are all covered! We are ripe! Esther Goodday believe the Democrats President will nail the coffin shut on the United States of America.
Mesquite Local News

Oh good grief...!

You wouldn't know what socialism was if it jumped up and bit you on the butt....

disciple Clint · Feb 5, 2019

Arcangl86 said:
Where are these 8 steps printed?

several places but they all seem to be bogus.

disciple Clint · Feb 5, 2019

OK thanks for the posts. I apologize to all of you for what appears to be a bogus article and I bought into hook line and sinker. It should have been a clue to me that the Mesquite Local News was not exactly a solid source for news. Lesson learned.

USincognito · Feb 5, 2019

disciple Clint said:
OK thanks for the posts. I apologize to all of you for what appears to be a bogus article and I bought into hook line and sinker. It should have been a clue to me that the Mesquite Local News was not exactly a solid source for news. Lesson learned.

Edit a disclaimer into your OP in large colored font so people don't keep responding as if you still stand by it.

disciple Clint · Feb 5, 2019

USincognito said:
Edit a disclaimer into your OP in large colored font so people don't keep responding as if you still stand by it.

I did, it is black ink but I dont think anyone could miss it.

TLK Valentine · Feb 5, 2019

disciple Clint said:
OK thanks for the posts. I apologize to all of you for what appears to be a bogus article and I bought into hook line and sinker. It should have been a clue to me that the Mesquite Local News was not exactly a solid source for news. Lesson learned.

Looking forward to you actually reading Alinsky, and not just seeing him as a panic button -- you'll see that if anyone's actually been following his advice to the letter, it was Donald's campaign.

LoAmmi · Feb 5, 2019

disciple Clint said:
OK thanks for the posts. I apologize to all of you for what appears to be a bogus article and I bought into hook line and sinker. It should have been a clue to me that the Mesquite Local News was not exactly a solid source for news. Lesson learned.

Respect to you for this post.

com7fy8 · Feb 5, 2019

By the way, isn't there socialism in places like Sweden and Norway? But I only hear about what is happening in Venezuela. I'm not saying it is right or not, just that different people can use something in different ways. Driving the same car can get different results, depending on who is driving it.

Arcangl86 · Feb 5, 2019

TLK Valentine said:
Looking forward to you actually reading Alinsky, and not just seeing him as a panic button -- you'll see that if anyone's actually been following his advice to the letter, it was Donald's campaign.

The Tea Party really ran with Alinsky's tactics. In fact there was a major Tea Party organization handing out a repackaged version of his Rules for Radicals to their organizers.

GoldenBoy89 · Feb 5, 2019

disciple Clint said:
OK thanks for the posts. I apologize to all of you for what appears to be a bogus article and I bought into hook line and sinker. It should have been a clue to me that the Mesquite Local News was not exactly a solid source for news. Lesson learned.

I appreciate your honesty, Clint.

LoAmmi · Feb 5, 2019

com7fy8 said:
By the way, isn't there socialism in places like Sweden and Norway? But I only hear about what is happening in Venezuela. I'm not saying it is right or not, just that different people can use something in different ways. Driving the same car can get different results, depending on who is driving it.

Definitions are always a problem with this stuff. The Nordic model is one that has not done away with capitalism but, instead, recognizes certain industries do not benefit from capitalism such as healthcare. As far as I'm aware, they don't make a habit of nationalizing industries outside of those few.

com7fy8 · Feb 5, 2019

LoAmmi said:
Definitions are always a problem with this stuff. The Nordic model is one that has not done away with capitalism but, instead, recognizes certain industries do not benefit from capitalism such as healthcare. As far as I'm aware, they don't make a habit of nationalizing industries outside of those few.

Thank you, LoAmmi

I think that would be a big distinction. I can see the trick, how trouble people in government could claim they are taking over an oil industry in order to make sure that not only certain ones make big profits. Then > they take the money for themselves.

By the way, you say you are into "Judaism". How familiar are you with the model in Israel? Do they have any sort of socialist approach??

I think the Torah has a version of socialism. Ones were to help one another, assisting the poor with an open hand. And the tithes were food which was stored so Levites and widows and orphans and needy and strangers could eat and be satisfied.

But American welfare is not trying to satisfy, but might be about giving the minimum or less, even to really needy people.

But the Torah version, if and however it includes socialism, also has capitalism. But those with property are directed to share with the needy, loving one another as family. So, it was not meant to be a system of government control, but a family love culture blessing.

But, now in Israel, can a needy person readily go to a regulated source to get enough food to be satisfied??

LoAmmi · Feb 5, 2019

com7fy8 said:
Thank you, LoAmmi

I think that would be a big distinction. I can see the trick, how trouble people in government could claim they are taking over an oil industry in order to make sure that not only certain ones make big profits. Then > they take the money for themselves.

By the way, you say you are into "Judaism". How familiar are you with the model in Israel? Do they have any sort of socialist approach??

I think the Torah has a version of socialism. Ones were to help one another, assisting the poor with an open hand. And the tithes were food which was stored so Levites and widows and orphans and needy and strangers could eat and be satisfied.

But American welfare is not trying to satisfy, but might be about giving the minimum or less, even to really needy people.

But the Torah version, if and however it includes socialism, also has capitalism. But those with property are directed to share with the needy, loving one another as family. So, it was not meant to be a system of government control, but a family love culture blessing.

But, now in Israel, can a needy person readily go to a regulated source to get enough food to be satisfied??

Well, not really into Judaism so much as it's my religion.

I'm not overly familiar with Israeli politics, but I do know they have universal healthcare. I imagine they have some other social safety nets. I did find this: Social welfare spending in Israel | Taub Center

Keep in mind that in the Torah nobody really owns anything. HaShem owns everything. Yes, in a practical sense people owned stuff, but religiously the entire land belonged to Him to give or take away as He pleased. There were commandments to give to the poor. Not just suggestions but full on commandments and if you broke them you were sinning. You weren't allowed to harvest your entire crop as some had to be left for the poor. I don't think I'd try to break it into capitalism vs socialism because of the nature of life back then. The entire community had to work together to survive and the community was more important than the individual. Yom Kippur, for example, was about the community atoning more than the individual. Even today when we go to synagogue for Yom Kippur, the chant is that we have committed a specific sin, even if I did not commit it.

Ringo84 · Feb 5, 2019

"Are we that close to socialism?"

I sure hope so.
Ringo

cow451 · Feb 5, 2019

USincognito said:
Edit a disclaimer into your OP in large colored font so people don't keep responding as if you still stand by it.

Better yet, get the mods to close the thread.

Pommer · Feb 5, 2019

com7fy8 said:
What is happening, more or less, is how welfare in the United States is not controlling people. Ones can easily have babies, so they get money to use for drugs. So, it is maybe more about not controlling, rather than controlling. Drugs can take people out of the picture so they do not rise up against the powers that be.

And the drug users already might not be voting. So, if now drug business is somehow being controlled to keep certain people from voting, this already is something to consider. But I do not know statistics about if there is more drug use effecting more voters of one party than another. It seems that drug abuse is hitting all races and parties and well-to-do and not well-to-do people.

But I am pretty sure that welfare is not controlling a lot of people, who are indeed controlling how they jolly well please to spend their welfare money.

Plus, drug abuse can result in a lot of tax expense. So, this is a tricky item in the mix, for anyone trying to bring socialism and communism.

If one views “drug abuse” as a “public health” issue (as opposed to a criminal or moral issue), then it can be incorporated into the healthcare system.

But if you’re suggesting that people on welfare do drugs at a higher rate than the general population as a whole, then you’ll do well to check out those states that tied drug screening with getting welfare benefits, as the cost of testing folks far exceeded the “savings” by denying potential recipients benefits.

com7fy8 · Feb 5, 2019

Thank you, @Pommer

Sparagmos · Feb 5, 2019

disciple Clint said:
Take Heed that no man deceives you!

This is based on Alinsky’s eight steps from democracy to socialist society.

Obama quotes him often in his book and Hillary did her thesis on Alinsky.

ALMOST DONE. JUST ONE ELECTION DECIDES OUR FATE… ALMOST THERE
There are 8 levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a socialist/communist State. The first is the most important
5 OF THE 8 ARE DONE – THE LAST 3 ARE ALMOST THERE

1. Healthcare: “Control Healthcare and you control the People” DONE !!

2 Poverty: Increase the Poverty level as high as possible.” Poor People are easier to control and will not fight back if the government is providing everything for them to live. DONE!!!

3. Debt: Increase the National Debt to an unsustainable level.” That way you are able to increase Taxes, and this will produce more Poverty. DONE!!!

4. Gun Control: Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a Police State – total local control. ALMOST THERE!!!

5. Welfare: Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Livestock, Housing, and Income). DONE!!!

6. Education: Take control of what People read & listen to; take control of what Children learn in School.
ALMOST THERE!!!

7. Religion: Remove faith in God from the Government and Schools.
ALMOST THERE!!!

8. Class Warfare: Divide the People into the Wealthy against the Poor. Racially divide. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to Tax the Wealthy with full support of
the voting Poor.
DONE!!! The bases are all covered! We are ripe! Esther Goodday believe the Democrats President will nail the coffin shut on the United States of America.
Mesquite Local News
OK thanks for the posts. I apologize to all of you for what appears to be a bogus article and I bought into hook line and sinker. It should have been a clue to me that the Mesquite Local News was not exactly a solid source for news. Lesson learned.

Maybe it’s time to consider what other fake news and flat out lies have contributed to your world view.

disciple Clint · Feb 6, 2019

Sparagmos said:
Maybe it’s time to consider what other fake news and flat out lies have contributed to your world view.

Isn't it time we all did that on everything we take in. If there is anything that we should have learned by now it is that the media cannot be trusted regardless of which side of the fence you are on.

TLK Valentine · Feb 6, 2019

disciple Clint said:
Isn't it time we all did that on everything we take in. If there is anything that we should have learned by now it is that the media cannot be trusted regardless of which side of the fence you are on.

Be that as it may, you don't see any of us trusting internet chain letters as straight-up fact...

Are we that close to socialism?

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a post by Alan Smithee

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I've already read the books you want burned.

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We're Still Here

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Dispassionate

Separation of Church and State expert

Standing with Ukraine.

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic

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I've already read the books you want burned.

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