Division of the ‘Week’

Christian Gedge · Feb 2, 2019

The ancient Hebrews realised that their lunar year needs adjustment – an extra month added every third year or so to bring it into alignment with the sun. Therefore, it is not by coincidence that the Hebrew ‘week’ of years was divided in half and called, a 'time, times and half a time.' This term is mentioned in the Bible often enough, but usually in a 'prophetic' setting. End-time writers mention it a lot, but I want to share the division of the week in its function as a calendar formula. I believe that it was different to how they do it now.

The division occurred; it seems, on Israel's all-important festival, the Day of Atonement. The D.of A. was the 10th of the seventh month, but it should not be supposed an arbitrary date of religious significance only. When we count 3½ years from the beginning of a Sabbatical cycle, it comes to a total of 1278 days (occasionally 1279 days) to the start of the D.of A. in the middle year.

Now, this is interesting, because the number of days in 3½ solar years is exactly the same. Check it out. :idea:

There are 365¼ days in a year. Multiply by 3.5 and it will always come out on the Day of Atonement. So, the 10th of Tishri must have been a marker showing where the lunar calendar intersects with the solar.

Next: What about the 1260 and 1290 days?

Lulav · Feb 2, 2019

Christian Gedge said:
The ancient Hebrews realised that their lunar year needs adjustment – an extra month added every third year or so to bring it into alignment with the sun. Therefore, it is not by coincidence that the Hebrew ‘week’ of years was divided in half and called, a 'time, times and half a time.'

Can you cite a reference for this? Possibly from the Talmud or other Hebrew sources?

Christian Gedge · Feb 2, 2019

We have a problem when it comes to researching the ancient Hebrew calendar, because significant changes were made to the original one given to Moses. These changes occurred during the Inter-Testament period, and later Talmudic writings continued with the Helenised version of the calendar.

I can, however, give you an example in Daniel where the term, ‘a time’ is referring to a normal year.

Christian Gedge · Feb 3, 2019

Here is a simple example. If we take the 1st Nisan of our recent year, 2000 AD, and add 1278 days, it arrives on 10 Tishri 2003, precisely 3½ years later. Yes, my example is hypothetical, but we can apply this formula to any set of years for as many centuries you wish to throw at it. I kid you not.

Here is a couple of takeaways before we get to the full significance:

The Hebrew calendar was both lunar as well as solar. (the technical name is ‘luni-solar’)
The 364-day year of Enoch, although an attempt get back to the original system, is not correct, because it is a solar calendar.
Although a 2nd Adar is not explicitly mentioned in scripture, it is inferred, because 1278 contains an extra lunar month. (42 + 1)

Douggg · Feb 3, 2019

Christian Gedge said:
The ancient Hebrews realised that their lunar year needs adjustment – an extra month added every third year or so to bring it into alignment with the sun.

CG, I think you need to be more precise, and then see if you theory works. You are talking about the "leap month" in the Jewish "leap year".

The Jewish "leap year" occurs seven times in a 19 year cycle. Even so, from what I am reading there is a small discrepancy resulting in about every 231 years it falls behind a day from the Gregroian calendar year. Hebrew calendar - Wikipedia
________________________________________________________________________________
The time, times, half time in Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, and Revelation 12:14 is because certain timeframes of events which they are tied to are not exactly 1260 days. In some cases more than 1260 days (Daniel 7:25, 12:7); in other cases less than 1260 days (Revelation 12:14).

For the Revelation 12:14, the time, times, half time... fitted into the 7 years.

1260 days (two witnesses) + 3 1/2 days + 7th trumpet sounds, war in heaven takes place, unspecified earth time passes + time, times, half times after Satan cast down = 2520 days, the seven years.

Another way, in column addition -

1260 days (two witnesses testimony time)
3 1/2 days laying dead in the streets of Jerusalem
7th trumpet sounds, war in heaven - unspecified earth time passes
times, times, half time - after Satan cast down
____________________
2520 days Total

As you can see the time, times, half time would have to be less than 1260 days. Which is why Revelation 12:14 is not given as 1260 days.

There could be two or three Jewish leap years (with the extra month) during that time. But because we don't know the starting day of the 7 years on a calendar, it is impossible to factor in leap years (with the extra month).

What we have is information to piece together when the events take place, in relation to each other, using the timeframes given.

Christian Gedge · Feb 3, 2019

Douggg said:
CG, I think you need to be more precise, and then see if you theory works. You are talking about the "leap month" in the Jewish "leap year".

1278 days from 1st Nisan to 10th Tishri in any given Sabbatical cycle is about as precise as we can get bro. Also, the 19-year Metonic cycle used today is different to the original Hebrew calendar. Ill get a diagram up for you shortly.

Christian Gedge · Feb 3, 2019

I just threw in the bit about Enoch's calendar as an aside. We don’t have to deal with it. One thing that could be elaborated on though, is how every 'Times, time and half a time' contains 42 + 1 (total 43) lunar months. Almost every end-time discussion on this subject quotes Revelation and postulates a 360-day year. Theories of 360 and/or 364-day years are wrong. I'll get to the 1260 and 1290 days shortly.

keras · Feb 3, 2019

Christian Gedge said:
Theories of 360 and/or 364-day years are wrong

Why are they wrong? Just your opinion.

Isaiah 13:13 is plain; the earth will be moved from her place. I believe this prophecy will be fulfilled by a strike upon the earth of a multi billion ton mass ejected from the sun. What the Lord will use on His Day of wrath against the nations.
The initial flash of this sun explosion, as described in Isaiah 30:26a will strike with a powerful Electro Magnetic Pulse at mid day ME time; Zephaniah 2:4, but the main mass, travelling at 3-5 million miles per hour, strikes 24 hours later and as the earth travels at 66,000 mph on its orbital track, it will be 1.5 million miles past the direct CME, so it will hit us with a glancing blow that will have the effect of pushing the earth, speeding up our year to 360 days.

This scenario is possible, logical and fits with all the prophesies. To reject it because Keras promotes it, or it doesn't suit you; is not sensible.

Christian Gedge · Feb 3, 2019

keras said:
Why are they wrong?

Because for time immemorial (since Moses anyway) a "time, times and half a time" equaled 1278 days - not 1260 days as usually claimed. See opening post.

keras · Feb 3, 2019

Christian Gedge said:
Because for time immemorial (since Moses anyway) a "time, times and half a time" equaled 1278 days - not 1260 days as usually claimed. See opening post.

That in no way proves that 3 1/2 years will never equal 1260 days.

Christian Gedge · Feb 3, 2019

Here’s the part that blew my head off when I counted the days on a computer lunar app called Hermetic systems.

When we count from the end of the Day of Atonement 1260 days, it resets itself to the start of the Hebrew New Year Day, the 1st of Abib (Nisan) three and a half years later. So, the special festival in the middle year is actually a 'fulcrum' between two significant counts. Each 'time, times and half a time' had an additional month added to the 'base' 42 months, making 43 lunar months on both sides - a total of 86 lunar months altogether. Please examine the diagram taking note that the Day of Atonement stands independently between the two counts.

Notice how the first ‘t, t, + ½ t’ was precisely 3.5 solar years, but the second ‘t, t, + ½ t’ was 1260 days. From what I can see, every Sabbatical cycle (week) follows this pattern.

BABerean2 · Feb 3, 2019

keras said:
Why are they wrong? Just your opinion.

Isaiah 13:13 is plain; the earth will be moved from her place. I believe this prophecy will be fulfilled by a strike upon the earth of a multi billion ton mass ejected from the sun. What the Lord will use on His Day of wrath against the nations.
The initial flash of this sun explosion, as described in Isaiah 30:26a will strike with a powerful Electro Magnetic Pulse at mid day ME time; Zephaniah 2:4, but the main mass, travelling at 3-5 million miles per hour, strikes 24 hours later and as the earth travels at 66,000 mph on its orbital track, it will be 1.5 million miles past the direct CME, so it will hit us with a glancing blow that will have the effect of pushing the earth, speeding up our year to 360 days.

This scenario is possible, logical and fits with all the prophesies. To reject it because Keras promotes it, or it doesn't suit you; is not sensible.

It is the Son, instead the sun, that produces the fire on that day...

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth.
I am looking for the same thing.

.

Christian Gedge · Feb 5, 2019

I seriously think that’s what needs to be given the boot is our much cherished theory about a 360-year calendar. The simple fact is that there never was a continuous series of twelve 30-day months every year. There may have been prior to the flood, but by the time of Moses a month was 29.53 days long and this was rounded off into whole days of 30 and 29 until a lunar year of 354 days had transpired. Then, in every Sabbatical cycle a 13th month was added to each ‘time, times and half a time’ to bring it into line with the solar year.

Have a look a the diagram again. The full seven years contains 1278 + 1 + 1260 = 2539 days. Divide that by 29.53 and, wella, 86 lunar months. I reckon it was more accurate than any of the modern calendars!

keras · Feb 5, 2019

keras said:
Isaiah 13:13 the earth will be moved from her place.

This plainly stated and yet to happen prophecy, MUST have the effect of changing our calendar. Ignoring it is a bad mistake and just leads down the wrong end times understanding.

BABerean2 · Feb 5, 2019

keras said:
This plainly stated and yet to happen prophecy, MUST have the effect of changing our calendar. Ignoring it is a bad mistake and just leads down the wrong end times understanding.

Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, the earth is most certainly going to be removed from its place.
It is going to change the calendar, from months to eternity, in the New Heavens and the New Earth.
This is what Peter was looking for, and I am looking for the same thing.

Ignoring that passage is a bad mistake and leads down the wrong end times understanding.

.

keras · Feb 5, 2019

Christian Gedge said:
Notice how the first ‘t, t, + ½ t’ was precisely 3.5 solar years, but the second ‘t, t, + ½ t’ was 1260 days. From what I can see, every Sabbatical cycle (week) follows this pattern.

Proof that they are the same time period.
You all ignore the very significant, clearly stated prophecy in Isaiah 13:13....the earth will be moved from her place.

This prophecy, in the context of the great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis, plainly described to us as a Coronal Mass Ejection of unprecedented magnitude, Isaiah 30:26, is the event that will commence all the things prophesied for the end times.
So the entire final seven year period will be exactly 2 halves of 1260 days, 42 - 30 day months, and 3 1/2 years.

Maybe the 24 hour day will change, but I doubt this, as this CME shouldn't affect the earths rotation. But it will affect its orbital speed, just a nudge along its orbital track will do it; the earth will shudder and shake, Haggai 2:6, Isaiah 24:18-19, Habakkuk 3:6, Psalms 18:7, Hebrews 12:26

Christian Gedge · Feb 5, 2019

keras said:
This plainly stated and yet to happen prophecy, MUST have the effect of changing our calendar. Ignoring it is a bad mistake and just leads down the wrong end times understanding.

Like Berean says, When the earth is moved from its place, and the stars begin to fall, there won’t be much left of calendars at all!

keras · Feb 5, 2019

Christian Gedge said:
Like Berean says, When the earth is moved from its place, and the stars begin to fall, there won’t be much left of calendars at all!

I am amazed at the lack of understanding of some about what the Lord has planned for His people.
C'mon CG, can't you see the scriptures that say the earth will continue forever? After the Millennium, the new Jerusalem will come here and God will dwell with mankind - on earth. Revelation 21:1-7

The next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal; will be a worldwide disaster but the world will go on. Many will die, but many will also survive and the secular people will just pass off this terrible devastation as a natural event. They will establish a One World Govt, as is clearly prophesied, but the Christian peoples will be motivated to travel to and settle in all of the Holy Land, by then regenerated into a garden Land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 36:8, +
Out migration is plainly prophesied in Psalms 107 and Isaiah 66:18b-21.

John sees all the Christians from every race, nation and language in Jerusalem, in Revelation 7:9, and the Lord will be revealed to us. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, Revelation 14:1
I know this scenario is so different than what everyone has been taught, however, it is scriptural and perfectly logical; it IS what will happen!

BABerean2 · Feb 6, 2019

keras said:
I know this scenario is so different than what everyone has been taught, however, it is scriptural and perfectly logical; it IS what will happen!

2Th 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 1:9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2Th 1:10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

.

keras · Feb 6, 2019

BABerean2 said:
2Th 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,

BaB, Your constant repetition of, posting prophesies that relate to different times, without any explanation of what you believe or how they fit, is just an annoyance and leads people to scroll quickly past all your posts.

It is assumed that you believe 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 happens at the Return of Jesus?
That this premise is wrong, is simply proved by the fact that Jesus does not Return in fire. The 3 prophesies that clearly describe His Return; Zechariah 14:3-7, Matthew 24:30-31, Revelation 19:11-21, never mention fire.
Also, He is revealed only to His own people, not to all the world in Thess verse 10.

Then you go on in #19 to post prophesies that relate to the New earth, as described in Revelation 21-22.
For someone who has been around for a long time, this sort of confusing and hopelessly mixed up posting of only scripture, without any exegesis, is not a good look for you and is contradictory to your forum name.

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