A Biblical Case For Repentance

Just_a_Christian · Feb 2, 2019

Has anyone posted the proof text that shows prayer for salvation is valid for the current dispensation? If not would someone please provide it?
Thanks
In Him

Not David · Feb 2, 2019

Just_a_Christian said:
I know the history of Christ's church and I know what is taught by Christ and his apostles relating to salvation. The question was straight forward.

Then you should convert.

DamianWarS · Feb 3, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Is The Sinner’s Prayer Biblical?

I will give my answer below (with Scripture).

the sinner's prayer is a type of creed spoken to affirm that belief is orthodox (and if it isn't you say the words so it now is). It is beneficial with discipleship as the repentant unpacks and begins to understand what they actually said over the coming weeks/months/years which is where the real process of salvation is unfolded. Often it is viewed as a summit of our faith but it only is the beginning.

I see salvation as a process not a single moment where the sinner's prayer seems to value salvation as a moment. I've heard people say "next Sunday I'm going to give my heart to the Lord" then the next Sunday they get a pastor/elder to lead them through the sinner's prayer. Well, if they are sincere they are already started following Jesus before that Sunday ever came. This type of salvation glorifies the place, the words you say and the person leading you through it plus all the stuff built up around it like the sermon, the music, etc... like as if each one of those better defines "proper" salvation. The sinner's prayer in my experience tends to feed off of these things and starts people thinking they are required and I would rather not lead someone through it.

I will disciple a person, teach the gospel and salvation and I will even pray with them or give them an opportunity for them to pray but I won't lead them through a sinner's prayer that when we finish I give them the impression that before we started they were not saved and after the prayer they are no saved. I even try and avoid the question "do you want to know/follow Jesus" This just turns the prayer into some sort of incantation or magic spell which would be counter-gospel values.

here is an example of the "sinner's prayer" which I grabbed online

Lord Jesus, for too long I’ve kept you out of my life. I know that I am a sinner and that I cannot save myself. No longer will I close the door when I hear you knocking. By faith I gratefully receive your gift of salvation. I am ready to trust you as my Lord and Savior. Thank you, Lord Jesus, for coming to earth. I believe you are the Son of God who died on the cross for my sins and rose from the dead on the third day. Thank you for bearing my sins and giving me the gift of eternal life. I believe your words are true. Come into my heart, Lord Jesus, and be my Savior. Amen.

here we have a prayer that goes through all the key points so you know their doctrine is right but we also have a prayer that doesn't address the Father. Read the gospels and find where Jesus tells us to pray to him... he doesn't. He prayer to the Father and says we can do so in the authority of his name (which is why we conclude "in the name of Jesus, Amen") Christ is a mediator between us and the Father and allows us a restored relationship with God but direct prayer to him is actually no the model of prayer presented in by Christ himself; its "ask anything [to the Father] in my name and it will be given". When we say a prayer like this we are ignorant of the roles of the Father and Holy Spirit and start salvation with a void and this sort of Jesus enriched God.

The problem we have with this discipleship without the sinner's prayer is that you don't know if they are saved or not and we can't check that box off. Well, the sinner's prayer really doesn't accomplish this either as it often is done in ignorance. Westerns should probably preface their evangelizing method with "spoiler alert" because that's what they are. they package the message to tell everyone the answers first and then get a person to repeat it in the form of prayer and call them a Christian.

This tends to rob people of divine revelation and I think we need to hold off a bit and let revelation come in its own time. Jesus asked Peter "who do you say I am". notice Jesus doesn't tell Peter who he is or get Peter to repeat a bunch of statements to make sure he has it right, he asks him and waits for his answer. When he answered "You are Christ, son of the living God" Jesus affirms with Peter that flesh did not reveal this but only the Father in heaven. And this is the revelation we should be waiting for. In this method sometimes the only way you really know someone is "saved" is they desire to get baptized but what does it matter how I gauge salvation? it is more important to disciple someone into true salvation than it is to get them to pray something so you can add them to your collection.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 3, 2019

timothyu said:
If sin has been forsaken then the sinner has changed. The sackcloth and ashes are symbolism of the change but the actual change is in the heart and mind of the sinner. Rejection of the self serving ways of man for the selfless will of God.

Okay. That is simply just not wanting to see it. Symbolism? really?

Bible Highlighter · Feb 3, 2019

DamianWarS said:
the sinner's prayer is a type of creed spoken to affirm that belief is orthodox (and if it isn't you say the words so it now is). It is beneficial with discipleship as the repentant unpacks and begins to understand what they actually said over the coming weeks/months/years which is where the real process of salvation is unfolded. Often it is viewed as a summit of our faith but it only is the beginning.

I see salvation as a process not a single moment where the sinner's prayer seems to value salvation as a moment.

Well, I also see salvation as a process. Justification (Faith in God's grace that includes the Sinner's Prayer in many cases and not all), Sanctification (Living Holy by the working of God within them), and Glorification (The Lord taking that person home to be with them for their faithfulness).

As for the Sinner's Prayer being valued in the moment as if that was all they needed to do. This problem is addressed in the Scriptures.

"Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance,..." (Luke 3:8).

Repentance is confessing sin or seeking forgiveness with God (i.e. Which can be the Sinner's Prayer in some cases). How so?

Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5)."

You said:
I've heard people say "next Sunday I'm going to give my heart to the Lord" then the next Sunday they get a pastor/elder to lead them through the sinner's prayer. ... Read the gospels and find where Jesus tells us to pray to him... he doesn't. He prayer to the Father and says we can do so in the authority of his name (which is why we conclude "in the name of Jesus, Amen") Christ is a mediator between us and the Father and allows us a restored relationship with God but direct prayer to him is actually no the model of prayer presented in by Christ himself; its "ask anything [to the Father] in my name and it will be given". When we say a prayer like this we are ignorant of the roles of the Father and Holy Spirit and start salvation with a void and this sort of Jesus enriched God.

No. You are not reading the Bible clearly or plainly. We do see prayer for the Lord or Jesus in the Bible (See: John 14:14; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 12:7-9, Acts of the Apostles 7:54-60; Acts of the Apostles 8:24, 1 John 5:11-15, Hebrews 4:14-16).

You said:
The problem we have with this discipleship without the sinner's prayer is that you don't know if they are saved or not and we can't check that box off. Well, the sinner's prayer really doesn't accomplish this either as it often is done in ignorance. Westerns should probably preface their evangelizing method with "spoiler alert" because that's what they are. they package the message to tell everyone the answers first and then get a person to repeat it in the form of prayer and call them a Christian.

Just because somebody partakes in a Biblical practice unbiblically does not undermine it's genuineness. Biblical cults can believe certain true things in the Bible, but just because they believe a particular truth in one instance does not invalidate that truth just because their religion is wrong. I would say that a person has not even read the Bible or they read the Bible with a certain pair of lenses on so as not to see the obvious portions of Scripture that do talk about the Sinner's Prayer because they have a preconceived belief by an article they read or from what they learned by their Pastor at their church.

There is also the danger of going in the opposite wrong extreme, which is denying that we are saved initially and ultimately by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. That is all work and not even a belief in Jesus that saves us at all. This is wrong and Paul wrote in the way that he did to counter against those who think they could be saved exclusively by their deeds alone without God's grace through faith. We need both: "Faith" + "Works of Faith" to = "Salvation."

Fidelibus · Feb 3, 2019

Jason0047 said:
The verses I provided are pretty clear in defense of the Sinner's Prayer in post #2. You have to address each and every one of them if you believe they are not talking about seeking forgiveness with God by way or prayer. Your statement of disagreement does not undo what they say. You have to show us using the context or explaining what the verse really says so as to defend your viewpoint.

Again Jason, I have no problem if someone recites the sinners prayer or prayers like the examples I gave on post #55. All I am doing is addressing the the original topic of this thread, "Is the Sinner's Prayer Biblical?" Like I've said before, the sinner's prayers I posted are nowhere to be found in Scripture, and praying it should be considered an extra-biblical, man-made practice. Do you not agree? So with that being the case, I was just asking for acknowledgment from those that hold the belief of 'sola scriptura' (the belief that the bible alone is sufficient as a sole rule of faith) that the sinner's prayer in unbiblical.

As stated before, I was a Protestant before my conversion to the Catholic Church. As a member of many differnt Protestant denominations, I have witnessed and participated in many "Altar Call's." ( which I always found odd, being called that for there was never an Altar) In these Altar calls, I don't remember any of the passages you posted on post # 2 ever being prayed or read when someone came forward "asking Jesus into their hearts." Again, which I stated before, that those word's are nowhere to be found in the Bible or dies it encourages or demands us to asks us to do so.The only sinner's prayer I've witnessed at any of these Altar Call's are the ones I posted.

So in conclusion, and to answer the title of this thread, I would have to say.......yes, the "sinner's prayer" is a man-made practice, as is the 'altar call' and "asking Jesus into one's heart" and is nowhere to be found in the Bible.

With that being said, how do sola scripturists (are you one? you never did say if you are or not) explain these man-made practices and traditions at thier church services?

God Bless you, and have a Blessed Day

Just_a_Christian · Feb 3, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Then you should convert.

If I believe Jesus is the Son of God, who suffered the cruel cross of calvary and raised again the third day. (Which I do) And have confessed that before men. If I have also acknowledged the awfully sinful nature of my humanity and repented of such, not allowing sin to have dominion over myself but willingly serve the Lord to the best of my ability. If I have put on Christ in the watery grave of baptism for the remission of my sins, calling on the name of the Lord, at which time God added me to the body of Christ. What then would I need to convert to??
In Him

timothyu · Feb 3, 2019

Just_a_Christian said:
If I believe Jesus is the Son of God, who suffered the cruel cross of calvary and raised again the third day. (Which I do) And have confessed that before men. If I have also acknowledged the awfully sinful nature of my humanity and repented of such, not allowing sin to have dominion over myself but willingly serve the Lord to the best of my ability. If I have put on Christ in the watery grave of baptism for the remission of my sins, calling on the name of the Lord, at which time God added me to the body of Christ. What then would I need to convert to??
In Him

Wouldn't you like to be a commodity, better yet a consumer?

Not David · Feb 3, 2019

Just_a_Christian said:
If I believe Jesus is the Son of God, who suffered the cruel cross of calvary and raised again the third day. (Which I do) And have confessed that before men. If I have also acknowledged the awfully sinful nature of my humanity and repented of such, not allowing sin to have dominion over myself but willingly serve the Lord to the best of my ability. If I have put on Christ in the watery grave of baptism for the remission of my sins, calling on the name of the Lord, at which time God added me to the body of Christ. What then would I need to convert to??
In Him

To the Church Christ founded and whom he gave the authority? Tell me, where do you get your authority from?

Just_a_Christian · Feb 3, 2019

Christ himself, none above He is the Author and firstborn of eternal life.

Just_a_Christian · Feb 3, 2019

timothyu said:
Wouldn't you like to be a commodity, better yet a consumer?

I does not matter what you call me or what you think of me, as long as in the end I hear enter thee into My rest. Well done thou good and faithful servant.
In Him

timothyu · Feb 3, 2019

Just_a_Christian said:
I does not matter what you call me or what you think of me, as long as in the end I hear enter thee into My rest. Well done thou good and faithful servant.
In Him

No arguments. I was just responding over your post about why should you convert. I'm sure there are many who would like to use you as a commodity to support their churches or to market their ideals to you having you as a consumer and endorse them.

Just_a_Christian · Feb 3, 2019

timothyu said:
No arguments. I was just responding over your post about why should you convert. I'm sure there are many who would like to use you as a commodity to support their churches or to market their ideals to you having you as a consumer and endorse them.

I wasn't really sure what you were saying, maybe I'm a little slow on the uptake. There could be worse things I could be...lol

Just_a_Christian · Feb 3, 2019

David Cabrera said:
To the Church Christ founded and whom he gave the authority? Tell me, where do you get your authority from?

I thought I hit reply but apparently not:
So, to answer your question. Christ himself, none above, He is the Author and firstborn of eternal life. By whom else might anyone receive authority? Christ gave His blood but for one church and although He established only one church we see multiple groups of Christians meeting at various locations like, Corinth, Antioch, Ephesus and so forth but they were all His church. These churches remain His as long as they abide in sound doctrine. In Revelation God says He will spue the Laodiceans out of his mouth for being only lukewarm. What of those who teaching false doctrine? God also says where 2 or 3 are gathered together in His name He is in the midst thereof. He knows His sheep just as the sheep know His voice.
In Him

NeedyFollower · Feb 4, 2019

timothyu said:
So she never changed her abusive ways? God favours the oppressed, not the oppressor.

Well they were very young children but it made me aware of how pride is part of our fallen nature . Sorry is easier than wrong .

Not David · Feb 4, 2019

Just_a_Christian said:
I thought I hit reply but apparently not:
So, to answer your question. Christ himself, none above, He is the Author and firstborn of eternal life. By whom else might anyone receive authority? Christ gave His blood but for one church and although He established only one church we see multiple groups of Christians meeting at various locations like, Corinth, Antioch, Ephesus and so forth but they were all His church. These churches remain His as long as they abide in sound doctrine. In Revelation God says He will spue the Laodiceans out of his mouth for being only lukewarm. What of those who teaching false doctrine? God also says where 2 or 3 are gathered together in His name He is in the midst thereof. He knows His sheep just as the sheep know His voice.
In Him

You practically didn't answer my question. I can say the same thing and have a totally different interpretation of Scriptures that .you and the 49 thousand denominations. If you knew Church History, you would know that all of the Churches were in Communion with each other.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 4, 2019

Fidelibus said:
Again Jason, I have no problem if someone recites the sinners prayer or prayers like the examples I gave on post #55. All I am doing is addressing the the original topic of this thread, "Is the Sinner's Prayer Biblical?" Like I've said before, the sinner's prayers I posted are nowhere to be found in Scripture, and praying it should be considered an extra-biblical, man-made practice. Do you not agree? So with that being the case, I was just asking for acknowledgment from those that hold the belief of 'sola scriptura' (the belief that the bible alone is sufficient as a sole rule of faith) that the sinner's prayer in unbiblical.

As stated before, I was a Protestant before my conversion to the Catholic Church. As a member of many differnt Protestant denominations, I have witnessed and participated in many "Altar Call's." ( which I always found odd, being called that for there was never an Altar) In these Altar calls, I don't remember any of the passages you posted on post # 2 ever being prayed or read when someone came forward "asking Jesus into their hearts." Again, which I stated before, that those word's are nowhere to be found in the Bible or dies it encourages or demands us to asks us to do so.The only sinner's prayer I've witnessed at any of these Altar Call's are the ones I posted.

So in conclusion, and to answer the title of this thread, I would have to say.......yes, the "sinner's prayer" is a man-made practice, as is the 'altar call' and "asking Jesus into one's heart" and is nowhere to be found in the Bible.

With that being said, how do sola scripturists (are you one? you never did say if you are or not) explain these man-made practices and traditions at thier church services?

God Bless you, and have a Blessed Day

First, the Sinner’s Prayer is biblical; For I have already provided verses in defense of it. It’s not a perfect answer you are looking for with exact words that men use today, but it was never meant to be a script that we read from. Again, just look at the verses in post #2. If don’t care to address those verses than you are just seeing what you want to see in the Bible. For your argument is sort of like saying how we cannot say "Trinity" or "BIble" because it is not mentioned in the Scriptures. But these are just synonyms or related words to what God's Word already says.

Second, I am not a Protestant. The majority of them erroneously believe in OSAS or Belief Alone-ism. I believe we are saved by having faith in Jesus and by works of faith. I am not affiliated with any denomination. I just believe the Bible. Yes, I also believe in Sola Scriptura and I can back that up with the Bible if you are interested.

Three, I believe the New Covenant teaches house fellowship like how the early church gatheried; However, I believe according to the Bible, we are living in the last days and most are not really trying to follow Jesus but they are only following their own way or their own sin. For Jesus says, “...when the Son of man comes, shall he find faith on the earth?” (See Luke 18:8). In fact, the idea of what you think of as a church is not even biblical. Nobody was meant to gather in a big building every week and give glory to one man. Fellowship is supposed to be between believers only, too. Unbelievers were not invited to sing alongside believers so as to do an altar call when they are ready to accept the Lord. So no. I don’t believe in the man made traditions that are found in big organized churches. Jesus said narrow is the way and FEW be there that finds it.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 4, 2019

Mountainmanbob said:
No

Otherwise Jesus would have lead Nicodemus in a little sinner's prayer.

That sure did not happen.

How old is the sinner's prayer 100 or 150 years old? Leave it up to man to think he can improve on things.

M-Bob

I cannot understand how you can read the Bible and not understand so basic of a truth that says that Jesus can forgive us of our sins by way of prayer to Him. Jesus forgave a woman of her many sins and she was so grateful that she was kissing Jesus's feet. Jesus also said you can ask anything in my name and I will do it (John 14:14). Jesus obviously did not mean this phrase for when He was only around the disciples.

As for Jesus's conversation with Nicodemus:
Well, focusing a laser beam on just one portion of Scripture to makes your case does not really work out all to well in building proper doctrine. Remember, the Bereans were more noble because they searched the Scriptures to see whether those things be so or not.

We do see prayer for the Lord or Jesus in the Bible (See: 1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 12:7-9, Acts of the Apostles 7:54-60; Acts of the Apostles 8:24, 1 John 5:11-15, Hebrews 4:14-16).

timothyu · Feb 4, 2019

David Cabrera said:
If you knew Church History, you would know that all of the Churches were in Communion with each other.

I wonder. Is that of any advantage if they lose communion with God and return to the ways of mankind?

Bible Highlighter · Feb 4, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Ironic, when did your church was founded?

It is the men who follow God's Word truly and for real. Those who honestly and genuninely follow the Bible (Which is not many today). The church foundation is described in Scripture.

You said:
What's its history?

Men can corrupt historical documents to favor their religion. History is written by the victors. Besides the Bible, I don't trust in man made history as my ultimate authority on spiritual matters. Man made history was not inspired by God but it was written by men (Who are capable of lying). Granted, I am not saying everything in history is a lie; But I am just saying we really do not know if it actually true or not because it was written by fallible men who had specific agendas or motivations that were not always godly or good.

You said:
With what authority do you say all things?

God. For I quote Scripture (the Bible) that was written and inspired by God.

You said:
So instead of trying to imply, I believe in false things, why don't you tell me why haven't you answer me when I mentioned the Samaritans who had the Holy Spirit at the laying of hands? Didn't they believe until Peter and John arrived?

The Bible says we can be saved by having a belief in Jesus (and no mention is made about how we need to have the Spirit in order to be saved). But it makes sense that if one believes and they receive the Spirit they are saved even more so (because the Spirit is the seal of our redemption).

You said:
Baptism for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38)

Baptism only cleanses symbolically. Baptism is a picture or symbol of salvation (See 1 Peter 3:21, and Romans 6:3-5).

A Biblical Case For Repentance

Is The Sinner’s Prayer Biblical?

Yes.

No.

I don’t know.

It is not mentioned in the Bible, but it is still valid.

Other (Please explain).

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