Being filled with the Holy Spirit vs tongues

Revelation 22:10-12

Active Member
Jan 31, 2019
192
40
60
Hermitage
✟17,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
1. Tongues is the evidence one has received the Holy Spirit. Not some other calling.

Joyce Meyers testified that she felt the Holy Spirit coming over her giving her tongues and she interpreted that event as God calling her into the ministry rather than when she was saved as she claimed she was saved before that moment. That can be seen as giving another calling.

Some believers say that believers had received the Holy Spirit at the calling of the gospel, and later on in life, have received the Holy Spirit again by that sign of tongues for why I say they are giving that as another calling.

My former neighbor across the street was sitting at the kitchen table reading her Bible when she felt the Holy Spirit coming over her and having her speaking in tongues with no one else around. She said that was when she was saved because she got the Holy Spirit & tongues all at once.

I had asked her what she was reading that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant, but then quickly explained that she went to her pastor and had asked about that event because she was a believer all her life and the pastor pointed to the Book of Acts. She then went on to say others have experienced that too while doing everyday things but she rolled her eyes at that shaking her head slightly as if in disbelief of what they were doing when this had happened for them, but she did not care to expound on.

At any rate, she practically changed her testimony as to when she was saved and sounded like preaching that if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit, and therefore you are not saved.

I believe what they had experienced was a real phenomenon, but thanks to Jesus Christ, I have discerned those two kinds of events as not of Him at all. The traditions taught of us has us receiving the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 So whenever any one comes to & believe in Jesus Christ, they are filled & saved; John 6:35

2. Some people have faked tongues to deceive others for whatever motive.

To fit in. To belong. To draw attention to themselves. When there is chaos by not doing tongues by 2 or 3 and having another interpret, they can all get away with it because tongues is supposed to come with interpretation to profit the body withal. 1 Corinthians 12:7-13

3. Concerning Catholics before 325 ad and state run catholic church. Yes the universal church was of a downhill slide into false doctrine. But not everything was lost at that point. Most of what we see in the catholic church was not in place and the common salvation was still baptism in Jesus' name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. With tongues.

Care to explain the existence of the Catholic Charismatic Church that speaks in tongues? For all the "moving of the Holy Spirit", why has God not reproved them of the works of Catholicism?

4. 1 Corinthians was written to the church and what was written about tongues was concerning the spiritual gift of tongues, no to be confused with the initial evidence as seen in Acts with new converts.

Not every salvation event in Acts came with evidence of tongues. Just like water baptism is not essential for one receiving the remission of sins when it is by believing in Jesus Christ for why they were receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit before water baptism.
 
Upvote 0

New Birth

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2019
584
199
41
Vicksburg
✟22,877.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Married
Joyce Meyers testified that she felt the Holy Spirit coming over her giving her tongues and she interpreted that event as God calling her into the ministry rather than when she was saved as she claimed she was saved before that moment. That can be seen as giving another calling.

Some believers say that believers had received the Holy Spirit at the calling of the gospel, and later on in life, have received the Holy Spirit again by that sign of tongues for why I say they are giving that as another calling.

My former neighbor across the street was sitting at the kitchen table reading her Bible when she felt the Holy Spirit coming over her and having her speaking in tongues with no one else around. She said that was when she was saved because she got the Holy Spirit & tongues all at once.

I had asked her what she was reading that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant, but then quickly explained that she went to her pastor and had asked about that event because she was a believer all her life and the pastor pointed to the Book of Acts. She then went on to say others have experienced that too while doing everyday things but she rolled her eyes at that shaking her head slightly as if in disbelief of what they were doing when this had happened for them, but she did not care to expound on.

At any rate, she practically changed her testimony as to when she was saved and sounded like preaching that if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit, and therefore you are not saved.

I believe what they had experienced was a real phenomenon, but thanks to Jesus Christ, I have discerned those two kinds of events as not of Him at all. The traditions taught of us has us receiving the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 So whenever any one comes to & believe in Jesus Christ, they are filled & saved; John 6:35



To fit in. To belong. To draw attention to themselves. When there is chaos by not doing tongues by 2 or 3 and having another interpret, they can all get away with it because tongues is supposed to come with interpretation to profit the body withal. 1 Corinthians 12:7-13



Care to explain the existence of the Catholic Charismatic Church that speaks in tongues? For all the "moving of the Holy Spirit", why has God not reproved them of the works of Catholicism?



Not every salvation event in Acts came with evidence of tongues. Just like water baptism is not essential for one receiving the remission of sins when it is by believing in Jesus Christ for why they were receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit before water baptism.
One must be filled with the Holy Ghost just as in the book of Acts to be saved. It is the promise of the Father. The Apostles spoke with tongues when they received it in the upper room. Converts spoke in tongues as they received the Spirit in the book of Acts and it was the sign that the Apostles heard and verified the gentiles received the promise as well as they.
Sure some people fake it and deceive many.
Some think it was an added blessing.
Some think you can be saved and never receive the Holy Ghost.
Some thing you can just profess and believe and thats all it is to salvation.
Receiving the Holy Ghost is a real experience with God.
We should look at what the Apostles and their converts experienced and seek after the same thing, otherwise we are missing something vitally important and that is salvation itself.
 
Upvote 0

Revelation 22:10-12

Active Member
Jan 31, 2019
192
40
60
Hermitage
✟17,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
One must be filled with the Holy Ghost just as in the book of Acts to be saved. It is the promise of the Father. The Apostles spoke with tongues when they received it in the upper room. Converts spoke in tongues as they received the Spirit in the book of Acts and it was the sign that the Apostles heard and verified the gentiles received the promise as well as they.
Sure some people fake it and deceive many.
Some think it was an added blessing.
Some think you can be saved and never receive the Holy Ghost.
Some thing you can just profess and believe and thats all it is to salvation.
Receiving the Holy Ghost is a real experience with God.
We should look at what the Apostles and their converts experienced and seek after the same thing, otherwise we are missing something vitally important and that is salvation itself.

We agree to disagree. The scripture you select to preach that assumption is done by ignoring scripture that reproves that assumption. We are not children of God by the sign of speaking in tongues. We are identified as the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith....26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No need to reply since I know you are going to continue to disagree with me. I leave you in God's hands, brother.
 
Upvote 0

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
While I am confident in God's mercy for all, including unbaptized infants; such a hope exists on account of the implicit revelation of God's grace and kindness through Christ, not because I believe infants are somehow immune from the need of the saving grace of God that is found in Christ. And that is why we baptize our children, not because we think that if we don't then they are damned to eternal hellfire, but because we trust in God's kindness and promises through the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran
Infants are born as effectd by the fall of Adam, and as such, still deserve hell like all of us do, but God in His grace and mercies saves them, and he does not need the rite of water Baptism to be administered to enable Him to be able to do that!
 
Upvote 0

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Ananias went there to deliver healing and the filling with the Holy Spirit. He laid hands to do this. Why is that not clear? (rhetorical question)
Paul was already saved before that happened, and he was infilled with the Holy Spirit, without tongues being mentioned!
That is our pattern for today, saved and indwelt by the Spirit, and needing to be continually refilled with Him!
 
Upvote 0

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Joyce Meyers testified that she felt the Holy Spirit coming over her giving her tongues and she interpreted that event as God calling her into the ministry rather than when she was saved as she claimed she was saved before that moment. That can be seen as giving another calling.

Some believers say that believers had received the Holy Spirit at the calling of the gospel, and later on in life, have received the Holy Spirit again by that sign of tongues for why I say they are giving that as another calling.

My former neighbor across the street was sitting at the kitchen table reading her Bible when she felt the Holy Spirit coming over her and having her speaking in tongues with no one else around. She said that was when she was saved because she got the Holy Spirit & tongues all at once.

I had asked her what she was reading that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant, but then quickly explained that she went to her pastor and had asked about that event because she was a believer all her life and the pastor pointed to the Book of Acts. She then went on to say others have experienced that too while doing everyday things but she rolled her eyes at that shaking her head slightly as if in disbelief of what they were doing when this had happened for them, but she did not care to expound on.

At any rate, she practically changed her testimony as to when she was saved and sounded like preaching that if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit, and therefore you are not saved.

I believe what they had experienced was a real phenomenon, but thanks to Jesus Christ, I have discerned those two kinds of events as not of Him at all. The traditions taught of us has us receiving the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 So whenever any one comes to & believe in Jesus Christ, they are filled & saved; John 6:35



To fit in. To belong. To draw attention to themselves. When there is chaos by not doing tongues by 2 or 3 and having another interpret, they can all get away with it because tongues is supposed to come with interpretation to profit the body withal. 1 Corinthians 12:7-13



Care to explain the existence of the Catholic Charismatic Church that speaks in tongues? For all the "moving of the Holy Spirit", why has God not reproved them of the works of Catholicism?



Not every salvation event in Acts came with evidence of tongues. Just like water baptism is not essential for one receiving the remission of sins when it is by believing in Jesus Christ for why they were receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit before water baptism.
Good point, as the Holy Spirit of truth, the one who inspired the scriptures, cannot partner with those who have another Gospel message being taught!
 
Upvote 0

New Birth

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2019
584
199
41
Vicksburg
✟22,877.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Married
Paul was already saved before that happened, and he was infilled with the Holy Spirit, without tongues being mentioned!
That is our pattern for today, saved and indwelt by the Spirit, and needing to be continually refilled with Him!
Paul was not saved without the infilling of the Holy Ghost and neither is anyone else. This is the pattern Acts 2:38.
 
Upvote 0

New Birth

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2019
584
199
41
Vicksburg
✟22,877.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Married
Did Jesus speak in tongues?
Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. He was conceived by the Holy Ghost. All the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him. The very spirit of life that was in Him was the Spirit of God. There was no need for Jesus to be born again he was the Holy Ghost in the flesh. We need to be infilled with the Spirit of Christ. And when we are we will speak in other tongues as evidence of that new birth.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,339
26,780
Pacific Northwest
✟728,053.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Thanks again for such for such a complete and thoughtful response. That is the Catholic position. (as I understand it)

Although it seems a bit much to point to Gnosticism, when my position is biblical.
"... Christ in you, the hope of glory." - Colossians 1:27 -- and
"... People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.” - 1 Samuel 16:7

What then do you make of Constantine's army? All of whom were baptized. An act that contributed to his Sainthood?

Was this outward physical act that was required of them a saving act that they participated in? As you stated, "... baptism is trustworthy, because God stakes His very word and honor upon it." Certainly there were those for whom it was a meaningless act only required of them as duty to the emperor. No different from that perspective to an infant being baptized.

God's word is faithful and true, even when men are wicked. Baptism is never meaningless.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Paul was not saved without the infilling of the Holy Ghost and neither is anyone else. This is the pattern Acts 2:38.
Paul called upon Jesus as his Lord while Jesus spoke to Him, and only saved can do that!
 
Upvote 0

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. He was conceived by the Holy Ghost. All the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him. The very spirit of life that was in Him was the Spirit of God. There was no need for Jesus to be born again he was the Holy Ghost in the flesh. We need to be infilled with the Spirit of Christ. And when we are we will speak in other tongues as evidence of that new birth.
Jesus was NOT the Holy Spirit, as he was God the Son Incarnated!
 
Upvote 0

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
God's word is faithful and true, even when men are wicked. Baptism is never meaningless.

-CryptoLutheran
True, but Jesus commanded it to be applied towards those who have called upon Him to save them from their sins already!
 
Upvote 0

New Birth

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2019
584
199
41
Vicksburg
✟22,877.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Married
Paul called upon Jesus as his Lord while Jesus spoke to Him, and only saved can do that!
So your saying when Paul said "who art thou Lord" when Paul did not know Jesus Paul was saved at that point? No baptism no infilling of the Holy Ghost. He was saved as soon as he said "who art thou Lord"?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

New Birth

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2019
584
199
41
Vicksburg
✟22,877.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Married
One God, who with Himself has 3 Persons distinct from each other!
So when the scripture speak of receiving the Holy Spirit, having the Spirit of Christ, and having the Spirit of God, how many persons and spirits is someone receiving?
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Paul was already saved before that happened, and he was infilled with the Holy Spirit, without tongues being mentioned!
That is our pattern for today, saved and indwelt by the Spirit, and needing to be continually refilled with Him!
I partially agree, and then strongly disagree.

Yes, Saul was saved on the road to Damascus. He met the living Christ. And was converted at that moment. He submitted to Christ from that moment on.

However, Ananias was sent to bring healing and that Saul would be filled with the Holy Spirit. (by the laying on of hands)
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God's word is faithful and true, even when men are wicked. Baptism is never meaningless.

-CryptoLutheran
Does that mean you anticipate seeing Constantine's entire army in heaven?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,339
26,780
Pacific Northwest
✟728,053.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Does that mean you anticipate seeing Constantine's entire army in heaven?

I have no idea. I don't see baptism as a golden ticket to heaven. Scripture on multiple occasions warns us about the danger of apostasy, of shipwrecking our faith. The elect can fall away, etc. The Lord Himself offers us the parable of the sower where when the seed is sown it is sometimes plucked by the birds of the air, or choked out by thorns and thistles; He likewise speaks of sheep and goats, wheat and tares--He alone will judge in the end. But if we shipwreck our faith that does not invalidate God's word and promise.

Additionally, St. Augustine reminds us, "how many sheep are outside, how many wolves within! And how many sheep are inside, how many wolves without!" While we are indeed confident that here in the Church God has promised all His gifts and precious salvation on account of His Son who has given Himself to us and for us, it is only on the Last Day, at the Judgment, that all will be made clear. And I suspect that there will be many who we did not expect to see hearing the words of the Savior say, "enter into My rest" and there will be even those who we thought belong who will hear, "Away from Me, I never knew you." So let us leave the judging up to the only One fit to judge, and instead turn our focus and gaze upon Christ, and all the precious mercy we have in Him. As the author of Hebrews says, to set our eyes forward upon Christ the Author and Finisher of our faith.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0