What is the role of clergy in your denomination?

PloverWing said:

In the past, I have thought of the various words that denominations use for their clergy -- "priest", "minister", "pastor", "preacher" -- as essentially synonymous, differing only in slight theological ways. One term emphasizes the sacramental aspects of worship, while another emphasizes the importance of preaching or of caring for members of the congregation, and so on. Still, I assumed that most denominations viewed their clergy as having approximately the same role as in other denominations.

In a discussion in CF back in December, I realized that I may be incorrect, that different denominations may truly view their priests/pastors/ministers in significantly different ways. So I'd like to open a discussion:

1) If you are a member of the clergy, how do you view your role in your church? What is your ministry as you lead and care for your congregation?

2) If you are a lay person, how do you view the clergy in your church? What role do they play? What is different between the ministry that a clergy person has and the ministry that a lay person has?

Ground rules: Please have respect for other denominations and churches in this discussion. Do not say "Church X does it wrong." Say only, "Church Y does it this way," or "How do you do things in church Z?" We are all brothers and sisters in Christ here, trying to follow God's will as best as we perceive it.

These are the clergy members that I've encountered on CF, and I especially invite them to participate: @Paidiske @bekkilyn @Southernscotty @Shane R . Naturally, I'd also like to hear from other clergy, from a variety of denominations and churches, including the ones I haven't met yet.

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Not to sidestep your question, but I would like to hear how people see their clergy, or how the clergy expects to be seen, along the range of "he is only one of us, a mere man of no special position or authority" to "he is almost God himself". Also, I would like to hear how the idea of "Elder" is viewed, even if not exactly Clergy.

Men and women with a special religious vocation who are called and ordained to preach the Word and administer the Sacramets. We do not recognize an ontological distinction from other kinds of Christians, only a distinction in vocation. Priests or pastors have no special powers in themselves.

PloverWing said:

2) If you are a lay person, how do you view the clergy in your church? What role do they play? What is different between the ministry that a clergy person has and the ministry that a lay person has?

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SInce the Catholic church is a sacramental church, we see the priest as having a unique place in leading our sacramental life. This would include blessing us, our buildings, our pets, etc. as well as the more obvious seven sacraments that we recognize.
Another equally important part of their job is pastoral. As the shepherd to their people, they lead and form their flock, care for them and minister to their needs. Part of this is the sermon; but that is really only a small part of what they would do in a week.
Now for what they are not. They are not God; though God can work through them in powerful ways. They are not without faults and temptations. They are not perfect or impeccable. They do not all have the same gifts and virtues.
As a lay person, it is my role to listen to them and follow them. To help them and to let them help me. To take their extolling to heart and to praise them when they are particularly effective. But there are times, not many, where the lay person must speak out and call them to task.

PloverWing said:

1) If you are a member of the clergy, how do you view your role in your church? What is your ministry as you lead and care for your congregation?

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It struck me, as I tried to figure out how best to answer this, that there are four main sources which have input into defining my role. One is the ordination rites, and in particular their exhortations. Another is the canon law governing my role (in my case, the dioceses' Parish Governance Act, in particular, which sets out what is my responsibility, vs. what is the responsibility of lay people in the parish etc). Another is secular law, and what it makes me responsible for, whether the Church likes it or not. And the fourth is church custom; both broader over centuries and different countries and peculiarly local ("the last vicar always did X!")

(As an aside, not all clergy work in congregational contexts; many are chaplains, for example, and their role is quite different).

So I think about all of that, and think it is very difficult to distil all of that into a forum post!

I would say there are two things to take into account; what I must do that only clergy may do (in my tradition, that's pretty much hearing confessions and presiding at the Eucharist - specifically pronouncing God's absolution and blessing, and consecrating the bread and wine), and how that fits into a wider role which includes praying with and for people, providing one-on-one pastoral support, preaching and teaching, planning and structuring the worship of the congregation, sharing leadership of the church's mission with lay leaders in the parish, and - because I'm the only staff person in a small parish - a lot of the daily trivial stuff that keeps any organisation running; the communication, administration (I spend more time on administration than anything else, which drives me nuts, but is just the reality if life), legal compliance, and so on and so forth.

Oh, just picking up on FireDragon's "priests or pastors have no special powers" I would agree that the authority for our ministry does not reside in us personally, but in the authority which the church delegates to us in various ways, but which subsists in the church. I could not, for example, leave my church and still claim the authority of a priest to celebrate the sacraments, as some sort of lone wolf operator.

Maybe that's a helpful place to start?

Mark Quayle said:

Not to sidestep your question, but I would like to hear how people see their clergy, or how the clergy expects to be seen, along the range of "he is only one of us, a mere man of no special position or authority" to "he is almost God himself". Also, I would like to hear how the idea of "Elder" is viewed, even if not exactly Clergy.

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I'd like to be at, "She's one of us, and we're in this together as a team; but she has a particular role with particular responsibilities which we respect." I don't want to be put on a pedestal, but I also don't want to be patronised, dismissed, belittled, bullied or downright defied when I'm acting appropriately within my role, and that does happen more than I'd like; I suspect because I'm young and it's difficult for people old enough to be my parents, or grandparents, to accept me as an authority figure.

Anglicans don't have elders as a separate role, but I would argue that our priests are intended to be understood as elders.

PloverWing said:

In the past, I have thought of the various words that denominations use for their clergy -- "priest", "minister", "pastor", "preacher" -- as essentially synonymous, differing only in slight theological ways. One term emphasizes the sacramental aspects of worship, while another emphasizes the importance of preaching or of caring for members of the congregation, and so on. Still, I assumed that most denominations viewed their clergy as having approximately the same role as in other denominations.

In a discussion in CF back in December, I realized that I may be incorrect, that different denominations may truly view their priests/pastors/ministers in significantly different ways. So I'd like to open a discussion:

1) If you are a member of the clergy, how do you view your role in your church? What is your ministry as you lead and care for your congregation?

2) If you are a lay person, how do you view the clergy in your church? What role do they play? What is different between the ministry that a clergy person has and the ministry that a lay person has?

Ground rules: Please have respect for other denominations and churches in this discussion. Do not say "Church X does it wrong." Say only, "Church Y does it this way," or "How do you do things in church Z?" We are all brothers and sisters in Christ here, trying to follow God's will as best as we perceive it.

These are the clergy members that I've encountered on CF, and I especially invite them to participate: @Paidiske @bekkilyn @Southernscotty @Shane R . Naturally, I'd also like to hear from other clergy, from a variety of denominations and churches, including the ones I haven't met yet.

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EVERY believer is a Minister but not every believer is a pastor

Paidiske said:

It struck me, as I tried to figure out how best to answer this, that there are four main sources which have input into defining my role. One is the ordination rites, and in particular their exhortations. Another is the canon law governing my role (in my case, the dioceses' Parish Governance Act, in particular, which sets out what is my responsibility, vs. what is the responsibility of lay people in the parish etc). Another is secular law, and what it makes me responsible for, whether the Church likes it or not. And the fourth is church custom; both broader over centuries and different countries and peculiarly local ("the last vicar always did X!")

(As an aside, not all clergy work in congregational contexts; many are chaplains, for example, and their role is quite different).

So I think about all of that, and think it is very difficult to distil all of that into a forum post!

I would say there are two things to take into account; what I must do that only clergy may do (in my tradition, that's pretty much hearing confessions and presiding at the Eucharist - specifically pronouncing God's absolution and blessing, and consecrating the bread and wine), and how that fits into a wider role which includes praying with and for people, providing one-on-one pastoral support, preaching and teaching, planning and structuring the worship of the congregation, sharing leadership of the church's mission with lay leaders in the parish, and - because I'm the only staff person in a small parish - a lot of the daily trivial stuff that keeps any organisation running; the communication, administration (I spend more time on administration than anything else, which drives me nuts, but is just the reality if life), legal compliance, and so on and so forth.

Oh, just picking up on FireDragon's "priests or pastors have no special powers" I would agree that the authority for our ministry does not reside in us personally, but in the authority which the church delegates to us in various ways, but which subsists in the church. I could not, for example, leave my church and still claim the authority of a priest to celebrate the sacraments, as some sort of lone wolf operator.

Maybe that's a helpful place to start?



I'd like to be at, "She's one of us, and we're in this together as a team; but she has a particular role with particular responsibilities which we respect." I don't want to be put on a pedestal, but I also don't want to be patronised, dismissed, belittled, bullied or downright defied when I'm acting appropriately within my role, and that does happen more than I'd like; I suspect because I'm young and it's difficult for people old enough to be my parents, or grandparents, to accept me as an authority figure.

Anglicans don't have elders as a separate role, but I would argue that our priests are intended to be understood as elders.

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All believers are priests to God

Pethesedzao said:

All believers are priests to God

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There are different meanings to the word "priest."

As it is typically used of clergy it is a contraction of the Greek word presbyteros, elder.

In Confessional Lutheran Churches is is very simple; the responsibilities of the Clergy is to preach the Gospel and rightly administer the Sacraments.

1)
Backdrop: I pastor a non-denominational church. I am ordained through and accountable to an organization, but we are entirely our own legal entity. We believe in the 5-fold ministry (Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher). However, the 5-fold is not a like a corporate ladder with one being more important than another. It simply means each office represents a specialist in their field. Think about building construction. To build a home there are construction workers, but you need specialists to do the job right: electrician, plumber, framer, roofer, general contractor ect. Can a electrician do plumbing work, sure, but not as well as a certified plumber. Same idea here. So 5-fold isn't about titles, it's about flow and function... what you are good at, ie how God made you. If you are a teacher, you don't need to announce it to others, it will just be obvious from how you operate. I'm well aware others don't subscribe to this ministry format and I completely respect that. If you love Jesus and call Him Lord, we are brothers and sisters.

That being said, the role of clergy/ministers in my view and in our church? They are chief servants. My ministry is to lead by example and do whatever needs to be done. I can't stand at the platform and tell others to do anything that I am not first willing to do. So, I am first and foremost a lover of Jesus, but also a husband & father, a janitor, a handyman, a counselor, an accountant, a sound man, a friend, or whatever else might be needed, and lastly preach from the pulpit. But I/we do these things in a way that embraces and reflects my 5-fold ministry calling. Meaning, how I accomplish these things may be different than someone else, and that's ok.

MarkRohfrietsch said:

In Confessional Lutheran Churches is is very simple; the responsibilities of the Clergy is to preach the Gospel and rightly administer the Sacraments.

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What would be the expectations around things like pastoral visiting, or church administration? Things which fall outside those two tasks but which generally are associated with the clergy?

IME, preaching and taking services generally requires half of my working week, on average.

And I agree with topher, every person will inhabit the role differently. @PloverWing, if you're interested enough to do a bit of reading, there's a great book called What Clergy Do: Especially When It Looks Like Nothing, written by an English Anglican priest which I found very helpful as I tried to get my head around how to be in this role!

Paidiske said:

What Clergy Do: Especially When It Looks Like Nothing

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LOL, I love the title!

The thing I find interesting is all of the churches who claim Apostolic succession (EO, OO, RC, Anglican/Episcopal) refer to the ‘pastor’ of their respective parishes as in generally priest and personally as father for the most part.

PloverWing said:

Can I gently ask if there are differences between the denominations in how clergy view themselves? Maybe this is a way to ask it: Do clergy in your church prefer the title "priest", "pastor", "minister", "preacher", something else? Would you think of any of the other titles as inappropriate for your church's clergy? Why?

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There are definitely differences. I don't believe ordination is a sacrament, for a start; so I don't accept notions of "ontological change" at ordination either. (I do think there's an argument to be made that the way our relationships change does, in fact, change who we are, but that's not the sort of argument the Catholics would make at this point).

I prefer to be called a priest because that's what I was actually ordained as. It's what the archbishop laid hands on and prayed for me as, and it's what it says on my letter of order (formal ordination paperwork). I find it frustrating when clergy in my denomination choose other terms which bear no relation to our liturgical or historical understanding of who we are; like they choose to call themselves "pastor" because somehow it sounds cooler to be like the Baptists, or something? (No offence to Baptists, but that's just not who we are).

It might help also to share here the exhortation portion of the ordination service for priests in my denomination. This is kind of the foundational statement about who we are to be; and I think perhaps it doesn't express the ideal of other denominations (although I'll let them chime in):

"Our Lord Jesus Christ summons us all to obedience and discipleship.
In baptism we are called to be a royal priesthood,
a people belonging to God,
to make Christ known in all the world.
Now you are responding to the call of God and of the Church
to live and work as a priest, a pastor and teacher,
for God's glory and the strengthening of God's people.
You know the responsibility and significance of this office.
I now exhort you, in the name of Christ,
to take up your calling with joy and dedication.
As the Lord's messenger, proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Seek the lost, announce God's justice, warn and correct those in error.
You are to encourage and build up the body of Christ,
preaching the word of God,
leading God's people in prayer,
declaring God's forgiveness and blessing,
and faithfully ministering the sacraments of God's grace
with reverence and care.
Together with your bishop and other ministers,
you are to take your part in the life and councils of the Church.
Be a pastor after the pattern of Christ the great Shepherd,
who laid down his life for the sheep.
Be a teacher taught by the Lord in wisdom and holiness.
Lead the people of God as a servant of Christ.
Love and serve the people with whom you work,
caring alike for young and old, rich and poor, weak and strong.
Never forget how great a treasure is placed in your care:
the Church you must serve is Christ's spouse and body,
purchased at the cost of his own life.
Remember that you will be called to give account before Jesus Christ: if it should come about that the Church, or any of its members, is hurt or hindered as a result of your negligence, you know the greatness of the fault and the judgement that will follow. Therefore apply yourself with diligence and care, and fashion your life and ministry in accordance with Christ's example.
As you depend on the Holy Spirit and the grace of God,
put away all that does not make for holiness of life.
Clothe yourself with humility; be constant in prayer.
Study the Scriptures wholeheartedly,
reflecting with God's people upon their meaning,
so that your ministry and life may be shaped by Christ..."

Then the service goes on. But that's the heart of what we think it means to be a priest.

PloverWing said:

In the past, I have thought of the various words that denominations use for their clergy -- "priest", "minister", "pastor", "preacher" -- as essentially synonymous, differing only in slight theological ways. One term emphasizes the sacramental aspects of worship, while another emphasizes the importance of preaching or of caring for members of the congregation, and so on. Still, I assumed that most denominations viewed their clergy as having approximately the same role as in other denominations.

In a discussion in CF back in December, I realized that I may be incorrect, that different denominations may truly view their priests/pastors/ministers in significantly different ways. So I'd like to open a discussion:

1) If you are a member of the clergy, how do you view your role in your church? What is your ministry as you lead and care for your congregation?

2) If you are a lay person, how do you view the clergy in your church? What role do they play? What is different between the ministry that a clergy person has and the ministry that a lay person has?

Ground rules: Please have respect for other denominations and churches in this discussion. Do not say "Church X does it wrong." Say only, "Church Y does it this way," or "How do you do things in church Z?" We are all brothers and sisters in Christ here, trying to follow God's will as best as we perceive it.

These are the clergy members that I've encountered on CF, and I especially invite them to participate: @Paidiske @bekkilyn @Southernscotty @Shane R . Naturally, I'd also like to hear from other clergy, from a variety of denominations and churches, including the ones I haven't met yet.

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I attend a local independent baptist church...we have 4-6 deacons which mainly are to take offering,,and to assist pastor...pastor calls himself the undershepherd if Christ... He does our sermons, visits those who are sick, attends funerals/preaches funerals if asked, goes soul winning, etc

PloverWing said:

Use of the titles "father" and "mother" is an interesting question. The obvious meaning is that the priest is serving as a spiritual parent of the congregation. Those of you who use the title "father" or "mother", do you see yourself in a parental role? Or, if you're a lay person in these traditions, do you see your priest as a spiritual parent? What does that parental role mean to you?

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I find the use of these titles deeply problematic, and while I accept others calling me "mother," I don't encourage it. The question of whether and to what extent I'm a spiritual parent - or allowed to be one - has a degree of tension around it, and in addition, there is a tendency for people then to project their mother issues onto me, as well.

It's particularly difficult when most of my congregation are old enough to be my parents (or grandparents)!