Are you willing to commit treason for the Lord?

Hishandmaiden said:

Jeremiah 21:9 Whoever stays in this city will die by the sword, famine or plague. But whoever goes out and surrenders to the Babylonians who are besieging you will live; they will escape with their lives.

Are we willing to endure treason for God?

Jeremiah preached treason against Israel. He asked her people to surrender to her enemies in times of wars. If ever America went to wars with another country, and God told you to ask the people in America to surrender to that country, are you willing to do that? If you are willing to do that, you will be consider a traitor to your own country. You will be committing the worst of crime in your country, treason.

Yet, that is what Jeremiah did. He committed treason against his own country, for the sake of the Lord. He really loves God by his actions and not his words.

What about you? Are you willing to commit treason for the Lord?

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Me being considered as a traitor in a country doesn't mean that I need to commit treason in order to be seen in that light. I don't get the romanticization of martyrdom. You can't compare what was needed to be done with Jeremiah, a prophet, to what we need to be doing as believers now. I would not want to commit treason, if its God's will that it ends up being treason, then so be it. But I do not will to commit it, it is not a desire.

Instead of asking 1000 of hypotheticals, we should at the moment just be focusing on what God clearly asks us to do as disciples, to tell others of the gospel and make disciples. That's it. If we're put in positions that are not the norm, we don't just jump to being martyrs, we jump for God's wisdom, and if it results to death or being seen as a traitor then let it be.

But I know Jesus of the NT would want us to have a mindset that is more towards respect the authority at hand than thoughts of how to be against it. You give Caesar what belongs to him, and give God what belongs to God.

Hishandmaiden said:

Jeremiah 21:9 Whoever stays in this city will die by the sword, famine or plague. But whoever goes out and surrenders to the Babylonians who are besieging you will live; they will escape with their lives.

Are we willing to endure treason for God?

Jeremiah preached treason against Israel. He asked her people to surrender to her enemies in times of wars. If ever America went to wars with another country, and God told you to ask the people in America to surrender to that country, are you willing to do that? If you are willing to do that, you will be consider a traitor to your own country. You will be committing the worst of crime in your country, treason.

Yet, that is what Jeremiah did. He committed treason against his own country, for the sake of the Lord. He really loves God by his actions and not his words.

What about you? Are you willing to commit treason for the Lord?

Click to expand...

You'll have to create a new thread and delete this one.
Surrendering to the enemy is never treason.
It's just not. "Treason" is entirely different.

SkyWriting said:

Surrendering to the enemy is never treason.

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No, but promoting said surrender to your own nation would be thought of as such. Rahab's hiding of God's spies was certainly treasonous from the perspective of Jericho's government.

Hishandmaiden said:

Jeremiah preached treason against Israel.

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.

Sabertooth said:

No, but promoting said surrender to your own nation would be thought of as such. Rahab's hiding of God's spies was certainly treasonous from the perspective of Jericho's government.

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Jeremiah preached treason against Israel.

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The base of your argument is not correct.

Hishandmaiden said:

Jeremiah 21:9 Whoever stays in this city will die by the sword, famine or plague. But whoever goes out and surrenders to the Babylonians who are besieging you will live; they will escape with their lives.

Are we willing to endure treason for God?

Jeremiah preached treason against Israel. He asked her people to surrender to her enemies in times of wars. If ever America went to wars with another country, and God told you to ask the people in America to surrender to that country, are you willing to do that? If you are willing to do that, you will be consider a traitor to your own country. You will be committing the worst of crime in your country, treason.

Yet, that is what Jeremiah did. He committed treason against his own country, for the sake of the Lord. He really loves God by his actions and not his words.

What about you? Are you willing to commit treason for the Lord?

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How would the Lord communicate his wish that you should surrender to the other country?

to surrender is not the same as committing treason.

Treason is any action intended to harm or damage the government, most commonly working with the enemy to do so.

Surrendering when your losing a war is in a different category altogether... it's just surrender.

The only way surrendering would turn into treason would be if you surrendered and then actively worked with the enemy to help them win the war.

But just surrendering is never considered treason.

Hazelelponi said:

The only way surrendering would turn into treason would be if you surrendered and then actively worked with the enemy to help them win the war.

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That was the case with Rahab.

SkyWriting said:

The base of your argument is not correct.

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Elaborate, please.

Sabertooth said:

That was the case with Rahab.

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True but Rahab did that of her own accord, God never asked it, and she betrayed a foreign people because she believed God was with Israel. She didn't betray God's people, in other words.

So it's not the same as what the OP is saying.

Hazelelponi said:

...she betrayed a foreign people...

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Hazelelponi said:

She didn't betray God's people, in other words.

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(They were her native people.)
That is the perspective that the OP questioned.

The same question could be asked as,

"If the USA were to officially become anti-Israel in its foreign policy, would you side with the USA or with Israel?"

Sabertooth said:

(They were her native people.)
That is the perspective that the OP questioned.

The same question could be asked as,

"If the USA were to officially become anti-Israel in its foreign policy, would you side with the USA or with Israel?"

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Israel the nation-state isn't "God's people", the church is..

The OP said what would we do if God asked us to surrender during war.. erroneously equating surrender with treason.

As far as would we betray our own people for what we believe to be right or Godly, my answer would be yes..

would I betray my country for a nation full of atheists, no. The reason would have to be absolutely abnormal to the extreme.

Hazelelponi said:

As far as would we betray our own people for what we believe to be right or Godly, my answer would be yes.

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The Theban Legion was insubordinate on the same grounds.

Sabertooth said:

Elaborate, please.

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"Treason" is the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

Planning to surrender is biblical if one expects a change in government.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Titus 3,1
1 Timothy 2,1-3

Psalms 22:28
Daniel 2:20-21
Deuteronomy 16:18-20

1 Timothy 6:15-16
Proverbs 21:1
Romans 13:4

John 19:11
Mark 3:24
Proverbs 8:15

John 19:10-11
Daniel 2:21
2 Chronicles 7:14

Exodus 18:21
Romans 8:28
1 Corinthians 14:40

Deuteronomy 1:13
Romans 12:21
Romans 13:2
Romans 13:6-7

In my opinion, Jeremiah did not commit treason. Jeremiah obeyed God’s will but the nation Israel rebelled. It was God’s will to hand Israel to Babylon for 70 years. Jeremiah’s way of surrender was smart and correct. In this way the nation Israelite could be kept and they had hope to come back to rebuild the 2nd Temple. If all Israelites rebelled Babylon, the whole nation could be destroyed completely. Israelite King Zedekiah would regret why he did not listen to Jeremiah’s suggestion, which would let Israelite need not suffer Holocaust.

“Treason”is quite relative to different insight. I.E. German who resisted Hitler would be looked as “Treason”in the sight of Nazi court but not the new German court. Now if a Chinese support “Republic of China”(Taiwan), he would be looked as “Treason”in the sight of CCP court but not of R.O.C. Since I am ruled by CCP, I would obey the laws of CCP, as the Israelite obeyed Babylon.

Rahab committed “Treason”in the sight of Canaanite court, but this country and court was pulled down very soon. No accusing over her any longer. She did a righteous thing to the God and to the new government. She just rebelled a very evil kingdom but obeyed and loved a righteous kingdom. She was no longer a Canaanite but a real Israelite.

My ultimate loyalty is to God and his Church.

I wouldn't consider Jeremiah a traitor to Israel. Israel was supposed to be a nation devoted to God and they betrayed him. Surrendering to Babylon was in their best interest as well because they were not strong enough to resist them militarily. In ancient times, if a city resisted and the enemy was forced to besiege it for a long period of time, the population would usually be slaughtered when the city finally fell. Cities that surrendered without forcing their enemies to besiege them were usually treated with some leniency.