Potential Music Worship Problem, How to Deal With It

rapturefish

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Our church is described as one church, meeting in several locations. Things have been growing at an organic pace over some years and the overall vision and culture of the church seems to be good. However, over time, as different congregations do, things start being done differently because different individual run different parts of each congregation.

One congregation has been pushing in a certain direction over the last few years. Wanting expensive equipment, giving older equipment to other congregations. They told some long-time music worship people 'their services are no longer required'. When the management committee declined their requests for expensive equipment, they crowdfunded to get it themselves as they were told they had the freedom to do.

Recently it has been flagged that we need to have a music worship policy to integrate the various congregations and their policies, particularly because of the departure of this congregation from the others in their approach, which is of growing concern.

I feel some regret over this and feel this is a growing cloud that may well become a bigger problem. I was once part of that congregation and fell foul of some of its attitude just prior to the current leader's implementations. The attitude seems to be somewhat similar however. I was keen not to deal with that congregation, say it was their problem and not mine. But if there is going to be a church-wide revision of things music worship, then it is no longer something I can just let be. In fact this could change the policies of every congregation and we just got out of a hole ourselves thanks to a good leader with the right head on her shoulders. Maybe I shouldn't have let it be those years ago, but I had reconciled with the predecessor of the current leader with whom I had the issue.

My question, after such a preamble, is this. How can this issue be prevented from becoming a bigger issue and be resolved the best? I feel now that it was a mistake to let this congregation and this leader go as far as they were allowed as it represents a culture that is not in our main church culture.

I feel this leader has been seduced by the Hillsong phenomenon - introducing high production values, making the music worship a wall of sound that impresses but does not give substance. Yes, I acknowledge it has forced the church at large to become more adaptable in mindset and that is something, but it has also opened the church up to the danger of thinking like the world, where it is about being a good musician over being a worshipful community.

I have been part of such worship teams and seen some of just how bad the culture can be. Ungodly lives hidden behind great musical ability. People being picked that can play by ear and be very skilled but whose inner lives are ugly. Excluding and looking down on those who have the heart to worship but not yet the ability, preventing them from ministry in music worship. Emphasis on looking good, expensive tech, not community and every person encouraged to be expressive in worship.

I can see this could go bad if not treated rightly. But what is the wise and godly way of dealing with this storm cloud? Would welcome any thoughts on the situation.
 

bèlla

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I remember one year at Founder's Week John MacArthur stood at the podium and prepared to speak. But before he did, he praised the worship at the venue and derided the other that you're mentioning in this post. I remember listening to him that day and thinking to myself about the magnitude of his words and what he might have said instead. I never looked at him the same.

He presented his bias in such a way it almost sounded surly. And this was being held at a church that's very traditional and broadcast as well. Most of the demographic was older. They are in the proximity of a bible college. But the students go elsewhere. Their choice has a different style of worship and ministry.

This is one of the challenges of multiple campuses. I've attended two large churches who had the same. The first had more autonomy and I suspected the last was more structured. But the first moved me in a way the latter never did. Even though it was only one block from where I lived.

Is it possible that the Lord has drawn a different demographic to that church? One whose heart and desires may be slightly different from the others. I've been in a place where everything was more controlled. And I've been in a setting when the Holy Spirit directed the pastor to make me a co-leader of a team ministering to homeless men.

We were the lone group among the many over the weeks we spent together who recorded 100% professions of faith, new employment, housing, healing, and deliverance from addictions and the occult. They were not aware that I'd been ministering to a man on the streets six months prior. Or that I spent hours in prayer every day as well. We stayed after every session and lifted each person up. Watching their lives transformed was an unforgettable event.

I think the best response for everyone involved is prayer and fasting. And a willingness to hear the other without judgment. I would have never been chosen to do what I did for those men at another church. But look at the results of their obedience to the Lord instead.

There is a solution to your dilemma. But it may not be the one you or the others prefer. Let the Lord lead you. :)
 
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rapturefish

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Get an organ and sing hymns. Problem solved. :D
Thanks for your reply. I don't think this is a case of new vs old-style worship however. It's about the attitude with which the congregation and its worship leader is doing things. If it were done with an inclusiveness and a more loving culture I wouldn't object so much. But telling people they can't worship team help when they have the heart for it is a different thing altogether. And why use such expensive equipment? We are a church, not a band on tour. The congregation can worship without the need for any of it.
 
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rapturefish

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I remember one year at Founder's Week John MacArthur stood at the podium and prepared to speak. But before he did, he praised the worship at the venue and derided the other that you're mentioning in this post. I remember listening to him that day and thinking to myself about the magnitude of his words and what he might have said instead. I never looked at him the same.

He presented his bias in such a way it almost sounded surly. And this was being held at a church that's very traditional and broadcast as well. Most of the demographic was older. They are in the proximity of a bible college. But the students go elsewhere. Their choice has a different style of worship and ministry.

This is one of the challenges of multiple campuses. I've attended two large churches who had the same. The first had more autonomy and I suspected the last was more structured. But the first moved me in a way the latter never did. Even though it was only one block from where I lived.

Is it possible that the Lord has drawn a different demographic to that church? One whose heart and desires may be slightly different from the others. I've been in a place where everything was more controlled. And I've been in a setting when the Holy Spirit directed the pastor to make me a co-leader of a team ministering to homeless men.

We were the lone group among the many over the weeks we spent together who recorded 100% professions of faith, new employment, housing, healing, and deliverance from addictions and the occult. They were not aware that I'd been ministering to a man on the streets six months prior. Or that I spent hours in prayer every day as well. We stayed after every session and lifted each person up. Watching their lives transformed was an unforgettable event.

I think the best response for everyone involved is prayer and fasting. And a willingness to hear the other without judgment. I would have never been chosen to do what I did for those men at another church. But look at the results of their obedience to the Lord instead.

There is a solution to your dilemma. But it may not be the one you or the others prefer. Let the Lord lead you. :)

Thank you for your thoughts. I understand different directions from different groups. It's an inevitable outgrowth of ourselves as individuals. You're right in that it's important to value that difference. I just hope it is handled with the right wisdom and spirit.

John MacArthur. I have read little of his books, mostly in part because of his derogatory attitude when it comes to talking about Pentecostal Christians. It doesn't matter whether he is a Baptist-style worshipper or not, a Pentecostal in theology or not, a person has to speak respectfully in their divergence with other views. As it is, to date I refuse to read any of his writings because I don't like his attitude. What you've just shared about him just reconfirms my view of him. I do hope he changes his attitude. He's hurting other believers. I don't want our church worship situation to become like that.

Thank you again for your thoughts, encouraged the Lord is working through you in loving these homeless men.
 
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maintenance man

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But what is the wise and godly way of dealing with this storm cloud? Would welcome any thoughts on the situation.

This is a difficult situation.

Of course I don't know the heart of all those involved... But I can understand serious musicians wanting to make their music the best it can be - with good equipment and only the most talented participating.

I understand how turning people away with a heart for worship may seem harsh, but there has to be a line drawn someplace - you can't let just anyone provide the worship music. You want to use those who have been gifted by God with that talent.

Now... the bigger issue seems to be one congregation pushing to go their own way. This has to be the hardest thing to deal with when you have multiple locations - I've never experienced this situation - but it seems obvious that those in charge (the management committee) needs to establish some clear and comprehensive guidelines for the individual congregations going forward - guidelines that everyone agrees with.

I personally think it's a good idea to have several different styles of worship - that way there will be a service that fits everyone's preferred worship style. The "professional style music" congregation could be one choice - but this needs to be decided by the management committee - not by individual congregations pushing their own agenda outside of the church leadership.
 
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bèlla

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Thank you for your thoughts. I understand different directions from different groups. It's an inevitable outgrowth of ourselves as individuals. You're right in that it's important to value that difference. I just hope it is handled with the right wisdom and spirit.

Let that be the thing that guides your heart and spirit. I believe the Lord will provide a solution if you work towards this aim on one accord. Don't give into division. That's Satan's tactic.

What you've just shared about him just reconfirms my view of him. I do hope he changes his attitude. He's hurting other believers. I don't want our church worship situation to become like that.

I don't believe it was the right spirit and should have been handled differently. I have never listened to him since that time. However, I believe his remarks reveal something I've always felt about ministers overall. We are placed in a flock for a reason and it's important to see your shepherd's life up close and watch for fruit and the movement of the Holy Spirit when he speaks. It's easy to appear blameless when you're addressing an audience from the radio or a television screen. ;-)

Thank you again for your thoughts, encouraged the Lord is working through you in loving these homeless men.

They're no longer in that situation nor is the gentleman on the streets I used to speak with. I emphasized the Holy Spirit in my teachings and the necessity of allowing Him to draw them near. I attribute the changes they experienced to God and am thankful He allowed me to see the blessings He had in mind.

Pray against the spirits of strife, rebellion, confusion, pride, and perfection. Those are the ones I'm sensing. But confusion is strongest.
 
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rapturefish

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This is a difficult situation.

Of course I don't know the heart of all those involved... But I can understand serious musicians wanting to make their music the best it can be - with good equipment and only the most talented participating.

I understand how turning people away with a heart for worship may seem harsh, but there has to be a line drawn someplace - you can't let just anyone provide the worship music. You want to use those who have been gifted by God with that talent.

Noted. Yes, you don't want to have a situation where people distract from music worship by their deficient ability, true. However, even Hillsong has said that those who weren't ready as musicians were included in the practices until they improved, whether they made the stage or not. For me, if they have the right heart, do everything to encourage it. They may not be ready now, they may need some work, but include them in the group and they could learn and become tomorrow's music worship leaders.

What I don't understand is that this worship leader has decided some people are to go and gave them their marching orders. They aren't slouches either, just not top-notch or older. They let go of one guy who is a long-time tenor singer, and he was my tenor mentor in decades past! That still shocks me.

Now... the bigger issue seems to be one congregation pushing to go their own way. This has to be the hardest thing to deal with when you have multiple locations - I've never experienced this situation - but it seems obvious that those in charge (the management committee) needs to establish some clear and comprehensive guidelines for the individual congregations going forward - guidelines that everyone agrees with.

I personally think it's a good idea to have several different styles of worship - that way there will be a service that fits everyone's preferred worship style. The "professional style music" congregation could be one choice - but this needs to be decided by the management committee - not by individual congregations pushing their own agenda outside of the church leadership.

Yes, it's a regular challenge to do music in a way that the whole multi-generational church can engage with. I think it has less to do with the style of music than the way in which music worship is done. What has happened at that one congregation is that they try to get the best musicians, the best effects and tech, have a big concert sound, and I don't think it's about the congregation worshipping God anymore but about a performance. It's a smokescreen where one feels impressed, but do they engage with God? I can't hear myself at those things, much less dialogue with God. A debate to be had, I'm sure, but the attitude concerns me.

Someone has to make the call ultimately. I just hope it doesn't get ugly or go the wrong way. Guess it's the growing pains of a growing church. We are a bit unique in having multiple sites but called one church, certainly challenges the Presbyterian system here in Sydney.
 
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rapturefish

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Let that be the thing that guides your heart and spirit. I believe the Lord will provide a solution if you work towards this aim on one accord. Don't give into division. That's Satan's tactic.



I don't believe it was the right spirit and should have been handled differently. I have never listened to him since that time. However, I believe his remarks reveal something I've always felt about ministers overall. We are placed in a flock for a reason and it's important to see your shepherd's life up close and watch for fruit and the movement of the Holy Spirit when he speaks. It's easy to appear blameless when you're addressing an audience from the radio or a television screen. ;-)



They're no longer in that situation nor is the gentleman on the streets I used to speak with. I emphasized the Holy Spirit in my teachings and the necessity of allowing Him to draw them near. I attribute the changes they experienced to God and am thankful He allowed me to see the blessings He had in mind.

Pray against the spirits of strife, rebellion, confusion, pride, and perfection. Those are the ones I'm sensing. But confusion is strongest.

Thanks Bella, will keep those points in mind. I'll keep a heart on my heart as well through all this.
 
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topher694

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Your frustration is understandable. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming from what you posted that you are not in a leadership (ie pastoral or board) position. If that is the case, I can 100% guarantee you that you don't have all the information. Doesn't mean you are wrong about any of it, just that there are probably factors that you have no idea about.

Additionally, if you are not in leadership, that means that any direct attempt to confront leadership on what should be done will most likely not be received well. No matter how carefully it is presented.

That being said if you feel like you must say something here is my advice: Ask questions. Carefully consider them ahead of time. Don't make them indirect accusations (like, "so, what are you gonna do about this?). Rather, genuinely crafted questions that will stir up thoughtfulness.

For example: regarding worship team, "so, what qualities do you look for in worship team members?" regarding the changing culture, "what do you envision the culture of this place being?" Then, when the answers reflect your views on the topic you can respond enthusiastically, "that's really good!", "I love that!" There is still no guarantee it will be received, but the questions will force it to be considered.
 
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Thanks for your reply. I don't think this is a case of new vs old-style worship however. It's about the attitude with which the congregation and its worship leader is doing things. If it were done with an inclusiveness and a more loving culture I wouldn't object so much. But telling people they can't worship team help when they have the heart for it is a different thing altogether. And why use such expensive equipment? We are a church, not a band on tour. The congregation can worship without the need for any of it.
I was just joking. However, in my experience it's really hard to have a worship team that doesn't end up being exclusive. Once they have a good "band" put together, there's not much support for adding new people, especially if those people aren't as talented in music.

And as far as expensive equipment, I agree 1000%!! Almost every church I've attended had a worship team who decided they needed newer more expensive equipment when what they had worked perfectly fine! I've never heard a really good argument for why it was needed. It's always "Well, the soundboard is getting old..." or "Those microphones have feedback sometimes...". or "This will help us record the sermons straight to mp3 and even formatted specifically for an iPhone...".

Speaking for myself, I can definitely worship when the music isn't perfect. I know not everyone can, though. I do think that since we're doing it for God's glory we should do everything to the best of our abilities and not settle for mediocre. But worship teams tend to take that to the point of excluding those whose talent isn't perfect. There's a difference between doing your best but being mediocre vs being mediocre because you didn't try your best.

Also, though this topic isn't about new vs. old, the new can always learn from the old. Maybe some of the philosophies behind simpler music in church are worth thinking about even when regarding contemporary music. I know back in the day some choirs even stood in the back of the sanctuary to avoid becoming the center of attention. I actually think that could be an amazing way to worship - just beautiful music filling the room with only the words to look at and think about.

Oh, and hymn sings without any instruments at all? Probably my favorite of all! Just hearing everyone's voices singing together and nothing else... Anyway, I digress. :p
 
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justme6272

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I feel this leader has been seduced by the Hillsong phenomenon - introducing high production values, making the music worship a wall of sound that impresses but does not give substance. Yes, I acknowledge it has forced the church at large to become more adaptable in mindset and that is something, but it has also opened the church up to the danger of thinking like the world, where it is about being a good musician over being a worshipful community.

I have been part of such worship teams and seen some of just how bad the culture can be. Ungodly lives hidden behind great musical ability. People being picked that can play by ear and be very skilled but whose inner lives are ugly. Excluding and looking down on those who have the heart to worship but not yet the ability, preventing them from ministry in music worship. Emphasis on looking good, expensive tech, not community and every person encouraged to be expressive in worship.
To quote a phrase, "Follow the money."

In what ways were the ungodly musicians ungodly?
 
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