Free Will

Gideons300

Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.
Jun 26, 2015
1,697
1,275
74
Maryville, Tennessee
✟109,977.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What is free will? Is it just illusion?
It is the ultimate offering you can lay on the alter as the final proof of love for Him.

Do we remember the prodigal son? He is us. He was a son, just as we are. And he wanted to have his inheritance but use it HIS way. Certainly he could make his own decisions. Right? And the Father let him.

And when this “freedom” had taught the son what he needed to learn, the son returned, broken, humbled, hungry and realizing that serving the Father is worth more than freedom of choice.

We have made a small god out of free will. Yet have many there are who have not learned the lesson that the prodigal did. We believe that have freedom of choice is our most valuable pearl, and we hold onto it with everything we have. And of course it IS of great value. But once the correct choice is made, would it not be wise to close the door behind us so that there is no possible way we return to the pigsty?

We are taught that if we lose our free will, somehow we will be miserable. We do not see the complete lack of faith in that mindset. The prodigal was a son all of his life. He grew up in the Father’s house.

But when did he finally enjoy the full benefits of Sonship? Was it not when he came back, bowed low from eating the fruits of his choices? He had a realization that the sins he had committed taught him. And what was that lesson?

It is far better to serve God with all of our hearts, asking Him to make us bond servants, closing the door behind us, than to bask in our freedom of choice and have to bear the inevitable consequences of the choices we will make on our own.

Blessings,

Gideon
 
  • Like
Reactions: BNR32FAN
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
27,246
45,333
67
✟2,915,768.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
What is free will? Is it just illusion?
I think free will is the ability make choices according to our strongest inclination or desire at any given moment in time. Whenever we are able to do so (choose what we want the most in the moment) we are making a "free will" choice.

--David
 
Upvote 0

RaymondG

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2016
8,545
3,816
USA
✟268,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What are the laws of God? Do you mean accepting his son Jesus Christ?
No, I mean laws like: "What a man thinketh in his heart, so is he," " When ye ask, believe......and ye shall receive it" " let the weak say I am strong" "Do unto others as you would have done unto you" "Love your neighbor as yourself" etc.......

But following these laws do tie into accepting Christ.....for Why callest thou me Lord, Lord and not do what I say?
 
Upvote 0

RaymondG

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2016
8,545
3,816
USA
✟268,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I ask this because there are people who say no one choices to be saved. But wouldn't that reject John 3:16? That anyone who believe in Christ will be saved. God isn't the author of confusing only one of these things can be truth.
I believe that the end it set.....but we can choose our path to that end and how soon we get there. E.g. Jesus said the kingdom of God is at hand and some will not die before seeing it.......Yet most CHOOSE to wait and see what happens after death......and it is there choice to do so.........and there is nothing wrong with it.

I think it's all semantics, otherwise......Most have a different view of free will, and therefore interpretations and scriptural references differ. But in the bible.....the word freewill is only used concerning offerings.
 
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
27,246
45,333
67
✟2,915,768.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
I ask this because there are people who say no one choices to be saved. But wouldn't that reject John 3:16? That anyone who believe in Christ will be saved. God isn't the author of confusing only one of these things can be truth.
Hi Saya, I believe what people are actually saying is that no one can or will choose to come to saving faith in Christ on their own/apart from God, because God needs to change us first/change (quicken) our hearts for us to be able to do so.

Here are some various Scriptures for you to consider in regard to this.

Psalms 51
5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Ezekiel 36
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 6
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

Romans 3
9 ...both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
10 as it is written,
THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”

Ephesians 2
1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).​

Here to is St. Paul's description of a non-Christian, a "natural" man/woman:

1 Corinthians 2
14 A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.​

Why would such a person come to saving faith in Christ :scratch: If they did, would they not be acting against their own "free will" in choosing what they don't want (that which they can neither understand or accept), because the things of God, to a "natural" man/women, seem like nothing but foolishness to them.

Sure, there will always be people who want the "benefits" that God offers (especially a get out of Hell for free pass), the problem is, they don't want Him.

Yours and His,
David

1 Corinthians 1
18 The word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,111
7,243
Dallas
✟873,878.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What is free will? Is it just illusion?

Free will means that we are autonomous beings created with the ability to make our own choices in life. Personally I believe we are created this way so that those who choose to love God will be able to offer Him a genuine kind of love that is a gift given of their own free will. This is what makes love so valuable because it is a gift of affection, emotion, and fellowship that a person chooses to give to whom they please. Without free will love loses its value if the person has no choice but to love someone. Without free will it’s not genuine love it’s an artificial love. Love is the only thing we can offer God that is of any value to Him.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JustRachel
Upvote 0

SayaOtonashi

Newbie
May 19, 2012
1,960
81
USA
✟19,181.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Hi Saya, I believe what people are actually saying is that no one can or will choose to come to saving faith in Christ on their own/apart from God, because God needs to change us first/change (quicken) our hearts for us to be able to do so.

Here are some various Scriptures for you to consider in regard to this.

Psalms 51
5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Ezekiel 36
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 6
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

Romans 3
9 ...both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
10 as it is written,
THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”

Ephesians 2
1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).​

Here to is St. Paul's description of a non-Christian, a "natural" man/woman:

1 Corinthians 2
14 A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.​

Why would such a person come to saving faith in Christ :scratch: If they did, would they not be acting against their own "free will" in choosing what they don't want (that which they can neither understand or accept), because the things of God, to a "natural" man/women, seem like nothing but foolishness to them.

Sure, there will always be people who want the "benefits" that God offers (especially a get out of Hell for free pass), the problem is, they don't want Him.

Yours and His,
David

1 Corinthians 1
18 The word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
.
They tell me that free will is somewhat of illusion because God knows all. That he know us before we were born. That he picks who will be saved or no saved already and that's that. I always thought that once you become a believe you are than picked to be saved
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,696
5,613
Utah
✟713,367.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
They tell me that free will is somewhat of illusion because God knows all. That he know us before we were born. That he picks who will be saved or no saved already and that's that. I always thought that once you become a believe you are than picked to be saved

He don't "pick them" .... He knows what the choices will be (foreknowledge) ... but does not make the choices.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FatalFantasy

Active Member
Jan 30, 2019
121
71
50
Brisbane
✟2,057.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I ask since most people have stated god has all of our lives planned out. So is it how get to there that makes free will?
God may throw a spanner in the works of mankind now and then, but he doesn't plan out the desires of our hearts.
 
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
27,246
45,333
67
✟2,915,768.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
They tell me that free will is somewhat of illusion because God knows all.
If this is what you've been told, then I think I would ask them in reply, how do you get from God "knowing" what will happen in the future to Him "controlling" what will happen in the future (as those are two VERY different things)? He, for instance, knows exactly what our sins will be before we've committed them. Does the fact that He knows we will sin mean that He is also forcing us to sin??

I don't think so ;) We choose to do that freely :(

That he know us before we were born.
That is true Biblically .. cf Psalm 139:16. We are also told that those of us who are His have always been loved by Him, that He never chose to love us because He has 'always' loved us, from everlasting, that is .. Jeremiah 31:3. That's a mind-blowing thought, yes, a wonderful, wondrous mind-blowing thought :amen:

This is why theologian/pastor Charles H. Spurgeon once said, "everlasting love shall be the pillow for my head this night." ~Morning and Evening, Feb 27th, Evening
That he picks who will be saved or not saved already and that's that. I always thought that once you become a believe you are than picked to be saved
So, God loves us because we first loved Him, and He chooses us on the basis of our choice of Him? Hmm, that's what I used to believe too, I guess.

The Bible tells us that NONE of us can/will choose Him unless He makes it possible for us to do so (as the Scriptures show above). But if ALL are chosen/enabled/"drawn" by the Father and given to His Son, then why do so few choose to come to Him in faith then?

Considering the two choices, 1. eternal bliss with God -vs- 2. everlasting torment and contempt in the Lake of Fire, what fully-informed, rational person chooses door #2 :scratch: (and yet, again, most apparently do choose door #2, according to the Bible)

--David

John 6:37-40 (excerpt)
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me and .. of all that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.
.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

FatalFantasy

Active Member
Jan 30, 2019
121
71
50
Brisbane
✟2,057.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If this is what you've been told, then I think I would ask them in reply, how do you get from God "knowing" what will happen in the future to Him "controlling" what will happen in the future (as those are two VERY different things)? He, for instance, knows exactly what our sins will be before we've committed them. Does the fact that He knows we will sin mean that He is also forcing us to sin??

I don't think so ;) We choose to do that freely :(


That is true Biblically .. cf Psalm 139:16. We are also told that those of us who are His have ~always~ been loved by Him, that He never chose to love us because He has always loved us, from everlasting, that is .. Jeremiah 31:3. That is a mind-blowing thought is it not, a wonderful, wondrous mind-blowing thought :amen:

This is why theologian/pastor Charles H. Spurgeon once said, "everlasting love shall be the pillow for my head this night." ~Morning and Evening, Feb 27th, Evening

So, God loves us because we first loved Him, and He chooses on the basis of our choice of Him? Hmm, that's what I used to believe too, I guess.

The Bible tells us that NONE of us can/will choose Him unless He makes it possible for us to do so (as the Scriptures show above). But if ALL are chosen/enabled/"drawn" by the Father and given to His Son, then why do so few choose to come to Him in faith then?

Considering the two choices, 1. eternal bliss with God -vs- 2. everlasting torment and contempt in the Lake of Fire, what fully-informed, rational person chooses door #2 :scratch: (and yet, again, most apparently do chose door #2, according to the Bible)

--David

John 6:37-40 (excerpt)
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me and .. of all that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.
.
I wouldn't pick door number 3

Arhh! Zombies.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: St_Worm2
Upvote 0

SayaOtonashi

Newbie
May 19, 2012
1,960
81
USA
✟19,181.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
I do accept God does call us to choice him. So in our free will be can reject or accept that. In our free will this is what will leave to our predestined. But even thought he knows us from born I can't see why he would elected people already damned or saved before anything.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums