Is hunting ungodly when its purpose does not involve eating?

Not David · Jan 21, 2019

So is Sport hunting wrong?

Knee V · Jan 22, 2019

It is my opinion that the Christian should not want to hunt for sport, and only when it serves a necessary purpose (survival, population control, etc). I believe that we should love the animals and have compassion on them, and that we should kill them swiftly and humanely whenever we do have to kill them.

Kenny'sID · Feb 1, 2019

My first post assumed we were talking deer, or edible animals only. I must have surmised when the op said if we aren't going to eat them, that they must be edible.

If that's not the case like with lions and such, IMO, taking a life for the very selfish reason of simply showing someone you could is ridiculous, and it would be sin.

Weigh the benefits... life vs bragging rights, it's not even close to ok in my view.

Kenny'sID · Feb 1, 2019

chuckpeterson said:
Donald Trump Jr and Eric Trump are prolific big-game hunters and during the 2016 campaign, images re-emerged of the pair on a 2011 hunting trip posing with animals they had killed on safari, including an elephant, a buffalo and a leopard.

Jane | RESIST ❄ on Twitter

View attachment 249605

I don't think I'd mind at all if they evened up the odds, and hunted with the same weapons the animals have. Hand to hand combat would end up with the human head on the wall most of the time.

Silly? not really, where is the sport in having a guide drive you to a herd of elephants and the hunter showing they can hit the broad side of a barn after all. The only statement that makes is, "I have enough money to get me there"....they all but buy the trophy.

Ada Lovelace · Feb 1, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Like killing just for pleasure it something like that.

Animals are sentient, living creatures and deserve respect as such. I believe killing for the purpose of pleasure of the hunt or to boast about it is wrong. That said, there can be ethical reasons for hunting besides to provide food, such as conservationism.

Hunters as Conservationists | U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

I believe we have the responsibility to be stewards of God's creations, and some view conservationism as a form of stewardship.

I've been a vegetarian since I was nine, have never gone hunting and never will. I recoil at the thought. But I do have hunters in my family, and am aware of the various purposes for hunting.

ewq1938 · Feb 1, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Animals have no Spirit, so they are never alive to begin with
from God's perspective.

That's completely wrong.

Both man and animals have a living soul and the breath of life and a spirit.

Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature [soul] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

living= 02416 chay
creature = 05315 nephesh

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature [soul] after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

living= 02416 chay
creature = 05315 nephesh

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

living= 02416 chay
soul= 05315 nephesh

Both man and animals are a "living soul" according to God.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man has the "breath of life".

Genesis 7:14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Animals also have the breath of life.

1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Man and animals have different flesh, but both are a living soul and the breath of life.

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath [ru^ach]; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

What befalls the flesh of animals will also befall the flesh of man. Animals and man have the same breath! Breath here is ru^ach meaning spirit!

(YLT) For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even one event is to them; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity.

Animals and man have one spirit (one spirit to all) meaning the same spirit!

07307 ruwach {roo'-akh}
from 07306; TWOT - 2131a; n f

AV - Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4,
vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6; 378

1) wind, breath, mind, spirit

Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

The flesh of animals and man both go to the same place!

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The only difference is the spirit of man will go up to God while the spirit of an animal will go down. No resurrection for animals, no afterlife.

So, according to God both man and animals are a living soul and have the the breath of life and have a spirit.

ewq1938 · Feb 1, 2019

StrivingFollower said:
God has a lot of love for animals.
Matthew 10:29
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny?

They don't seem worth very much according to this.

SkyWriting · Feb 1, 2019

ewq1938 said:
That's completely wrong.

Both man and animals have a living soul and the breath of life and a spirit.

Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature [soul] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

living= 02416 chay
creature = 05315 nephesh

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature [soul] after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

living= 02416 chay
creature = 05315 nephesh

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

living= 02416 chay
soul= 05315 nephesh

Both man and animals are a "living soul" according to God.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man has the "breath of life".

Genesis 7:14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Animals also have the breath of life.

1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Man and animals have different flesh, but both are a living soul and the breath of life.

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath [ru^ach]; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

What befalls the flesh of animals will also befall the flesh of man. Animals and man have the same breath! Breath here is ru^ach meaning spirit!

(YLT) For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even one event is to them; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity.

Animals and man have one spirit (one spirit to all) meaning the same spirit!

07307 ruwach {roo'-akh}
from 07306; TWOT - 2131a; n f

AV - Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4,
vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6; 378

1) wind, breath, mind, spirit

Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

The flesh of animals and man both go to the same place!

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The only difference is the spirit of man will go up to God while the spirit of an animal will go down. No resurrection for animals, no afterlife.

So, according to God both man and animals are a living soul and have the the breath of life and have a spirit.

Good research, I stand corrected. Nice!

Will any of the animals be in the next life, the new earth, and/or did Jesus save any for the new kingdom? The biggest concern I've heard is regarding wittle puppy dogs.

ewq1938 · Feb 1, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Good research, I stand corrected. Nice!

Will any of the animals be in the next life, the new earth, and/or did Jesus save any for the new kingdom? The biggest concern I've heard is regarding wittle puppy dogs.

Well, scripture says the spirit of man goes up but the spirit of animals go down so that implies no salvation for animals. Will there be animals born in the NHNE...I don't know, scripture is silent on whether animal life exists at that time.

bekkilyn · Feb 1, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Well, scripture says the spirit of man goes up but the spirit of animals go down so that implies no salvation for animals. Will there be animals born in the NHNE...I don't know, scripture is silent on whether animal life exists at that time.

But see animals don't need salvation per se as they never sinned, so scripture wouldn't really ever address the salvation of animals one way or the other. While scripture doesn't say that any animals will be brought back after death, there is also nothing that seems to forbid it, so there is always a possibility that God would ultimately give new life to animals, for our sake if not for his own. It's simply a mystery that we won't know until we are there with him.

ewq1938 · Feb 1, 2019

bekkilyn said:
But see animals don't need salvation per se as they never sinned, so scripture wouldn't really ever address the salvation of animals one way or the other.

It does though. Their spirits go down while men's spirits go up.

bekkilyn · Feb 1, 2019

ewq1938 said:
It does though. Their spirits go down while men's spirits go up.

If you're talking about Ecclesiastes 3:19-21, it's not saying that about animal spirits as a statement of fact. It's in the form of a question.

For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? (KJV)

For a more modern word-for-word interpretation:

For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. All go to the same place. (NASB)

We really don't have scriptural proof one way or another because scripture focuses on the salvation of sinful humans and on the perfect character of God.

ewq1938 · Feb 1, 2019

bekkilyn said:
If you're talking about Ecclesiastes 3:19-21, it's not saying that about animal spirits as a statement of fact. It's in the form of a question.

The writer is asking who else understand this not asking if it is true.

Barnes:

Who knoweth
This expression (used also in Ecc_2:19; Ecc_6:12) does not necessarily imply complete and absolute ignorance. In Psa_90:11, it is applied to what is partially understood: compare similar forms of expression in Pro_31:10; Psa_94:16; Isa_53:1.

Clarke:

The word רוח ruach, which is used in this and the nineteenth verse, has two significations, breath and spirit. It signifies spirit, or an incorporeal substance, as distinguished from flesh, or a corporeal one, 1Ki_22:21, 1Ki_22:22, and Isa_31:3. And it signifies the spirit or soul of man, Psa_31:6; Isa_57:16, and in this book, Ecc_12:7, and in many other places. In this book it is used also to signify the breath, spirit, or soul of a beast. While it was said in verse 19, they have all one breath, i.e., the man and the beast live the same kind of animal life; in this verse, a proper distinction is made between the רוח ruach, or soul of man, and the רוח ruach, or soul of the beast: the one goeth upwards, the other goeth downwards. The literal translation of these important words is this: “Who considereth the רוח ruach) immortal spirit of the sons of Adam, which ascendeth? it is from above; (היא למעלה hi lemalah); and the spirit or breath of the cattle which descendeth? it is downwards unto the earth,” i.e., it tends to the earth only.

bekkilyn · Feb 2, 2019

ewq1938 said:
The writer is asking who else understand this not asking if it is true.

Barnes:

Who knoweth
This expression (used also in Ecc_2:19; Ecc_6:12) does not necessarily imply complete and absolute ignorance. In Psa_90:11, it is applied to what is partially understood: compare similar forms of expression in Pro_31:10; Psa_94:16; Isa_53:1.

Clarke:

The word רוח ruach, which is used in this and the nineteenth verse, has two significations, breath and spirit. It signifies spirit, or an incorporeal substance, as distinguished from flesh, or a corporeal one, 1Ki_22:21, 1Ki_22:22, and Isa_31:3. And it signifies the spirit or soul of man, Psa_31:6; Isa_57:16, and in this book, Ecc_12:7, and in many other places. In this book it is used also to signify the breath, spirit, or soul of a beast. While it was said in verse 19, they have all one breath, i.e., the man and the beast live the same kind of animal life; in this verse, a proper distinction is made between the רוח ruach, or soul of man, and the רוח ruach, or soul of the beast: the one goeth upwards, the other goeth downwards. The literal translation of these important words is this: “Who considereth the רוח ruach) immortal spirit of the sons of Adam, which ascendeth? it is from above; (היא למעלה hi lemalah); and the spirit or breath of the cattle which descendeth? it is downwards unto the earth,” i.e., it tends to the earth only.

It seems more like Solomon is pondering the possibility of an afterlife for human spirits, reflecting if there is a difference between human and animal spirits while acknowledging that both humans and animals are similarly mortal with their bodies returning to dust. He's not stating certain knowledge, neither absolute ignorance nor absolute certainty.

However, even if we were absolutely certain that animals return to the earth while the human spirit goes to be with God immediately upon death, there is no scripture that makes it clear that death is permanent for animals for all eternity. God could resurrect them just as easily as with humans, and may choose to do so at any time, particularly if humans who are with him have a desire to see old Fido once again. We just don't know...we don't know God's ultimate plan for animals and the scriptures do not clarify one way or the other.

StrivingFollower · Feb 2, 2019

I believe animals get saved because look at the creation story. Eden could've remained a paradise for all creatures but it was up to Adam and Eve to avoid sin. And I don't think God would frequently describe animals in such beautiful ways(even in the paradise) if he didn't care that much for them. God's not some flashy poet, he's honest. And look at how animals were used to represent purity in the sacrifices.

I believe part of the reason animal sacrifices were done was to have people fully aware of where their food comes from. It really showed people how fragile and dependent they were on ugly actions. But also there's the compassion and devotion a pet can have for their family.. I don't think it's just a coincidence that pets can show us such beautiful compassion and innocence. They're so childlike, and we know how much love God has for children.

Is hunting ungodly when its purpose does not involve eating?

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