Being filled with the Holy Spirit vs tongues

New Birth · Feb 1, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Not divisive? !!!
What are you claiming about any and every Christian that does not speak in tongues?

Im not talking about anyone. What you are doing is trying to be divisive yourself I have not named anyone or any religious group. Im just responding to the tread. So dont put words in my mouth, your starting to go down a road with this topic that is not necessary. We can go to the scripture but to include other groups and saying things Im not saying, that can be let alone.

Revelation 22:10-12 · Feb 1, 2019

New Birth said:
I cant force you to see it. if you chose to look past the scriptures and instances presented that your prerogative. Im not being divisive or am I wrong on this. I do not know everything but on this I am certain. we can not claim to have what the first church had without the first church's experience. People may claim the Holy Spirit but if they received it in any other way than the Apostles and others in the upper room and entire groups of new believers in Acts then they do not have the same thing they had on the day of Pentecost.

So basically, you are saying that "if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit and therefore you are not saved."

Problem is, as much as you claim others are looking past scripture, you are doing the same when scripture opposes your belief.

1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

The answer to that question is an obvious no.

You seem to be sold on that heresy and deceived by that phenomenon so I agree to disagree with you.

New Birth · Feb 1, 2019

Revelation 22:10-12 said:
So basically, you are saying that "if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit and therefore you are not saved."

Problem is, as much as you claim others are looking past scripture, you are doing the same when scripture opposes your belief.

1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

The answer to that question is an obvious no.

You seem to be sold on that heresy and deceived by that phenomenon so I agree to disagree with you.

New Birth · Feb 1, 2019

Revelation 22:10-12 said:
So basically, you are saying that "if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit and therefore you are not saved."

Problem is, as much as you claim others are looking past scripture, you are doing the same when scripture opposes your belief.

1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

The answer to that question is an obvious no.

You seem to be sold on that heresy and deceived by that phenomenon so I agree to disagree with you.

1 Corinthians 12:29 is addressing the "Gift of tongues" that is used in a church setting to edify the church. it is not speaking on the topic you and I are addressing. there is a difference.

Its not nice to claim what I believe is heresy. I have not stated your belief or lack of understanding and knowledge to be inferior to mine or claimed you are in heresy.

Saint Steven · Feb 1, 2019

New Birth said:
Im not talking about anyone. What you are doing is trying to be divisive yourself I have not named anyone or any religious group. Im just responding to the tread. So dont put words in my mouth, your starting to go down a road with this topic that is not necessary. We can go to the scripture but to include other groups and saying things Im not saying, that can be let alone.

I'm not being divisive. I'm being inclusive. Contrary to your claims, a person doesn't have to speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Why can't you answer the question below?

What are you claiming about any and every Christian that does not speak in tongues?

Revelation 22:10-12 · Feb 1, 2019

New Birth said:
1 Corinthians 12:29 is addressing the "Gift of tongues" that is used in a church setting to edify the church. it is not speaking on the topic you and I are addressing. there is a difference.

Paul could not say what he has said if everybody has spoken in tongues at one time or another.

Its not nice to claim what I believe is heresy. I have not stated your belief or lack of understanding and knowledge to be inferior to mine or claimed you are in heresy.

Well, what you preach is condemning every believer as not having the Holy Spirit because they do not speak in tongues whether you say that outright or not, you are preaching it. I have to call it heresy, brother, for the babes in Christ's sake. It is not a difference of an opinion we are talking about here.

New Birth · Feb 1, 2019

Saint Steven said:
I'm not being divisive. I'm being inclusive. Contrary to your claims, a person doesn't have to speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Why can't you answer the question below?

What are you claiming about any and every Christian that does not speak in tongues?

Im just saying that everyone must have the Holy Ghost just like they had in the book of Acts to be saved. Yes that is a divisive question and unnecessary for this thread.

Revelation 22:10-12 · Feb 1, 2019

Saint Steven said:
I'm not being divisive. I'm being inclusive. Contrary to your claims, a person doesn't have to speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Why can't you answer the question below?

What are you claiming about any and every Christian that does not speak in tongues?

Would you please read post # 1044 and # 1046 and let me know if I had stepped out of line with New Birth? I am new here and I am pretty sure I am allowed to call something preached a heresy just as long as I am not attacking the poster. I still acknowledge him as my brother, even though by his postings, I am not, since I do not speak in tongues and thus signifying indirectly that I never had that "new birth".

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

New Birth · Feb 1, 2019

Revelation 22:10-12 said:
Paul could not say what he has said if everybody has spoken in tongues at one time or another.

Well, what you preach is condemning every believer as not having the Holy Spirit because they do not speak in tongues whether you say that outright or not, you are preaching it. I have to call it heresy, brother, for the babes in Christ's sake. It is not a difference of an opinion we are talking about here.

I would encourage all to receive the Holy Ghost, its no option if one is to be saved. You can differ if you would like but that doesnt change the Facts.
You keep looking for a way to prove me wrong but you will find yourself outside of the scripture. Go back to the book of Acts and see if you identify with the new converts, if you cant then there is a problem somewhere.
Again Corinthians must be understood in context study your bible and you will see what im saying is the truth he is specifically addressing the gifts of the spirit.

Revelation 22:10-12 · Feb 1, 2019

New Birth said:
Im just saying that everyone must have the Holy Ghost just like they had in the book of Acts to be saved. Yes that is a divisive question and unnecessary for this thread.

Since the thread's title is in question; it should be obvious why we oppose tongues as always a sign for that born again of the Spirit moment of salvation.

Revelation 22:10-12 · Feb 1, 2019

New Birth said:
I would encourage all to receive the Holy Ghost, its no option if one is to be saved. You can differ if you would like but that doesnt change the Facts.
You keep looking for a way to prove me wrong but you will find yourself outside of the scripture. Go back to the book of Acts and see if you identify with the new converts, if you cant then there is a problem somewhere.
Again Corinthians must be understood in context study your bible and you will see what im saying is the truth he is specifically addressing the gifts of the spirit.

And how do you propose believers go about to accomplish that when they already believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead?

Strange how the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father was to be given by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ for why no believer will hunger nor thirst any more for a filling. John 6:35

So if coming to and believing in Him is not how one is born again, what are you proposing for how one can work at in order to receive what was promised to us by faith in Jesus Christ? Galatians 3:14 & Galatians 3:26

What steps did it say in Acts for us to get that promise that has been consistent thru out the Book of Acts if it is not by believing in Him is how we receive the remission of sins and the promise of the Spirit?

New Birth · Feb 1, 2019

Revelation 22:10-12 said:
Would you please read post # 1044 and # 1046 and let me know if I had stepped out of line with New Birth? I am new here and I am pretty sure I am allowed to call something preached a heresy just as long as I am not attacking the poster. I still acknowledge him as my brother, even though by his postings, I am not, since I do not speak in tongues and thus signifying indirectly that I never had that "new birth".

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Look this thread is about receiving the Holy Spirit vs speaking in tongues, It is going to be heated by its very nature and thats probably OK, im not the moderator but im not offended either. I have not been personal with anyone we are all stating our opinions and we all think our opinions are Fact. It becomes wrong when we try to bait each other into saying things that would be offensive as other have done already. But we can stay in the scriptures and hash things out without the nonsense and rebukes as if any one of us is in authority over the other.

swordsman1 · Feb 1, 2019

New Birth said:
To the first question. I dont believe anyone will be saved since the birth of the church without receiving the Holy Ghost. I believe the Holy Ghost is evidenced by speaking in other Tongues, you dont get one without the other.

So you beleive only Pentecostals and those who claim to speak in tongues will be saved? And everyone else in the last 2000 years (99.99% of all Christians) are lost? A simple yes or no to those questions would be appreciated.

New Birth said:
The second. yes the 3000 souls that were added spoke in tongues just because it wasn't penned is not sufficient to say they didnt. the same applies to the Eunuch and Jailer.

You mean to say that the 3000 all spoke in tongues, the first time anyone other than the disciples to do so.... and Luke remained silent? I don't believe that. Luke was cataloging all the important events in the early church and that would certainly have been one of them. He wouldn't wait for an event that occurred months later before recording the next instance.

New Birth said:
There is however sufficient scripture to conclude that tongues accompanied the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

Really? Out of the dozen or so instances of believers being filled with the Spirit in Acts, only one involved tongues (Acts 2).

The only conclusion we can draw from the tongues in Acts was that it was a sign that whole new groups of people were being added to the Church.

New Birth said:
Jesus said they that believe shall speak with new tongues.

In the same sentence Jesus also said that believers would pick up deadly snakes and drink poison without harm. Can all believers do that as well?

swordsman1 · Feb 1, 2019

New Birth said:
I spake in other tongues when I received the Holy Ghost just like Acts 8 and 10. And continue just like 1 Corinthians. With interpretation.

The only description of tongues is in Acts 2. Miraculously speaking a foreign human language you never learned. Do you identify with those tongues?

Francis Drake · Feb 1, 2019

ICONO'CLAST said:
The first century sign gifts have ceased. They were not normative.The signs credentialed the Apostolic message.We have the completed scripture now.
No one speaks in tongues today.

Ho ho ho, funny.
As Nelson said, "I see no ships", deliberately holding the telescope to his blind eye.

Revelation 22:10-12 · Feb 1, 2019

New Birth said:
Look this thread is about receiving the Holy Spirit vs speaking in tongues, It is going to be heated by its very nature and thats probably OK, im not the moderator but im not offended either. I have not been personal with anyone we are all stating our opinions and we all think our opinions are Fact. It becomes wrong when we try to bait each other into saying things that would be offensive as other have done already. But we can stay in the scriptures and hash things out without the nonsense and rebukes as if any one of us is in authority over the other.

Well, if I did step out of line, hopefully the mod will show me my error so I can learn from it and hope in the Lord to help me not do it again.

But it is written...

Psalm 127:1Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

It doesn't look like the Lord is ministering to you or me so we agree to disagree since I know I am saved, thanks to Jesus Christ in helping me know He is in me and is with me always.

I know you are saved, but not for the reasons that you claim you know you are saved. Tongues should not be serving as a sign to you or any believer that you are saved. 1 Corinthians 14:21-22

Francis Drake · Feb 1, 2019

YeshuaFan said:
God has obligated Himself to be in Covenant with us now, due to the Cross of Christ, so he has taken it upon Himself to always hear us!

I actually agree with you. For a change.

Saint Steven · Feb 1, 2019

New Birth said:
Im just saying that everyone must have the Holy Ghost just like they had in the book of Acts to be saved. Yes that is a divisive question and unnecessary for this thread.

Wow. "just"???
The question isn't divisive, but your answer sure is. (do you even know what divisive means?)

You are claiming that "everyone must have the Holy Ghost just like they had in the book of Acts to be saved." Meaning, if they don't speak in tongues they aren't saved. ????? And you don't see that as divisive? Wow. Seriously?

Saint Steven · Feb 1, 2019

Revelation 22:10-12 said:
Would you please read post # 1044 and # 1046 and let me know if I had stepped out of line with New Birth? I am new here and I am pretty sure I am allowed to call something preached a heresy just as long as I am not attacking the poster. I still acknowledge him as my brother, even though by his postings, I am not, since I do not speak in tongues and thus signifying indirectly that I never had that "new birth".

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I will PM you about this.

ViaCrucis · Feb 1, 2019

New Birth said:
not so. All that receive the Holy Spirit speak in tongues like in the bible.

Not all mentioned in the Acts are mentioned as speaking in tongues. It happens several times, but it doesn't happen every time. The most famous conversion recorded in the Acts of the Apostles, that of St. Paul, markedly says nothing. So if you're argument is that every conversion recorded includes glossolalia, then you are mistaken. You may assume that this occurred, but your assumption is based upon your own preconceived biases and little else.

-CryptoLutheran

Being filled with the Holy Spirit vs tongues

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