Fallen away from Church, and Christian faith.

aiki · Jan 30, 2019

anx66 said:
Which are you telling me I lack or have lacked Aiki?

In my time I have loved my brethren, putting them first, that before myself.
I have loved God and his word.
I've had a conviction of my sin.
I've recognised God's truth, as God has pointed it out to me in the word.
I've recognised the inner witness of the spirit.
Only others can tell me whether I have produced any fruit.

So, which one are you saying I have never had?

Well, it sounds like, at present, you think you possess/experience none of these things. Is that so? If it is, I have trouble understanding how what was once true of you no longer is. God does not vacillate in His commitment to us. He does not un-save people when they fail to live as He commands. No, instead, He embarks on a course of discipline, chastisement the Bible calls it (Hebrews 12:5-11), whereby He crowds His wayward children back to Himself. God does not let us drift off unimpeded, but bends all His power and wisdom to keeping us in growing fellowship with Himself. So it is that I am baffled by your claim to have once had - but now no longer do - what only is given to us by God's Spirit. The Spirit does not leave those whom He has regenerated. And they don't ever want Him to.

Albion · Jan 30, 2019

anx66 said:
The problem though is large gatherings of people, they seem to throw me. Church environments cause me anxiety, due to the symptoms of my M.H. issue. I sort of zone out in big meetings. The more people, the more zoned out I get.

Very well, that narrows the field of possible churches somewhat. There are many smaller congregations and, frankly, some of them (from my own experience) have been the most welcoming and pleasant. Large churches, on the other hand, are sometimes chosen by people who would just as soon get lost in the crowd, but that isn't your objective.

That aside, are there some doctrinal issues or worship style preferences--or dislikes--that would help prune down the list of churches? Something other than size?

anx66 · Jan 30, 2019

aiki said:
Well, it sounds like, at present, you think you possess/experience none of these things. Is that so? If it is, I have trouble understanding how what was once true of you no longer is. God does not vacillate in His commitment to us. He does not un-save people when they fail to live as He commands. No, instead, He embarks on a course of discipline, chastisement the Bible calls it (Hebrews 12:5-11), whereby He crowds His wayward children back to Himself. God does not let us drift off unimpeded, but bends all His power and wisdom to keeping us in growing fellowship with Himself. So it is that I am baffled by your claim to have once had what only is given to us by God's Spirit but now no longer do. The Spirit does not leave those whom He has regenerated. And they don't ever want Him to.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but you are saying they have never been true for me. Isn't salvation based on grace by faith. Are you saying that if my faith disappears for a season, then I have never had faith. Does it say in the bible that you will permanently have the things you mentioned? So, what did I have at the time, when all these things seemed to apply?

Jonaitis · Jan 30, 2019

Anx66,

I have no better advice for you than to turn your eyes to Christ. He is the source of our joy, our interest, our contentment, and our encouragement in life. The more you fixate yourself on his person and his work, the more you will relish him and find joy in fellowshipping with like-minded people in him.

Meditate and preach to yourself the gospel everyday, don't lose sight of who Christ is and what he has done. The same gospel that changes hearts still has power to change our lives afterward, and it is the only power that we need. I can PM you some great sermons and resources to stir your affections in Christ and to grasp him tightly.

Oldmantook · Jan 30, 2019

anx66 said:
I'm not sure if there are any house churches where I live, and I'm not sure how I would find out. Any ideas?

You may want to do a web search "house church directory" or just house church and the name of the town where you live. Some house church websites have directories of churches around the world. I left the institutional church many years ago. House church isn't perfect but it helped me to recognize the deficiencies in my relating to others and to learn from my mistakes as well as to give encouragement to others as well as receiving encouragement from others. After all, that is what we are commanded to do - edify one another. I hope you are successful in finding the right fit for you.

anx66 · Jan 30, 2019

Albion said:
Very well, that narrows the field of possible churches somewhat. There are many smaller congregations and, frankly, some of them (from my own experience) have been the most welcoming and pleasant. Large churches, on the other hand, are sometimes chosen by people who would just as soon get lost in the crowd, but that isn't your objective.

That aside, are there some doctrinal issues or worship style preferences--or dislikes--that would help prune down the list of churches? Something other than size?

I'm not clear on all the theological differences between congregations... I've been to a Methodist, Baptist and "non-denominational" church. So, that is all I'm used to. The Baptist and non-doms, where charismatic, but the Methodist was not.

anx66 · Jan 30, 2019

Jonaitis said:
Anx66,

I have no better advice for you than to turn your eyes to Christ. He is the source of our joy, our interest, our contentment, and our encouragement in life. The more you fixate yourself on his person and his work, the more you will relish him and find joy in fellowshipping with like-minded people in him.

Meditate and preach to yourself the gospel everyday, don't lose sight of who Christ is and what he has done. The same gospel that changes hearts still has power to change our lives afterward, and it is the only power that we need. I can PM you some great sermons and resources to stir your affections in Christ and to grasp him tightly.

The thing is I love Jesus, and at the moment I have repented and turned towards him. Which denom. do you go to Jonaitis?

anx66 · Jan 30, 2019

Oldmantook said:
You may want to do a web search "house church directory" or just house church and the name of the town where you live. Some house church websites have directories of churches around the world. I left the institutional church many years ago. House church isn't perfect but it helped me to recognize the deficiencies in my relating to others and to learn from my mistakes as well as to give encouragement to others as well as receiving encouragement from others. After all, that is what we are commanded to do - edify one another. I hope you are successful in finding the right fit for you.

Will do ... I'll look up house churches in a sec. Thanks Omt.

Albion · Jan 30, 2019

Yeh, I know that what I was asking could be a challenge, but whatever you might say that could narrow the search might save you a lot of time and effort. So, what was your reaction to the charismatic worship? How about the more orderly and semi-ceremonial style of the Methodists? Both are sincere Christians, but that doesn't mean they all will meet the objectives you have in mind.

By the way, I do not recommend house churches.

Jonaitis · Jan 30, 2019

anx66 said:
The thing is I love Jesus, and at the moment I have repented and turned towards him. Which denom. do you go to Jonaitis?

I attend a Reformed Baptist Church.

Sovereign Grace Church of Casper, Wyoming

We are a small body, meeting in a hotel conference room (before it was a house). We boast of having the largest baptistery in the whole state of about 500,000 people lol.

anx66 · Jan 30, 2019

Albion said:
Yeh, I know that what I was asking could be a challenge, but whatever you might say that could narrow the search might save you a lot of time and effort. So, what was your reaction to the charismatic worship? How about the more orderly and semi-ceremonial style of the Methodists? Both are sincere Christians, but that doesn't mean they all will meet the objectives you have in mind.

By the way, I do not recommend house churches.

What is the problem with house churches?

Albion · Jan 30, 2019

House churches--

They are fragile, for one thing, and tend to come and go, organize and then disband.

They are DIY by nature and usually are led by laymen who are not trained. Services tend to be more like what you'd find in a Bible study group of any denomination.

There is just no telling what the doctrinal perspective at any one of these house churches is going to be. Often, that's just fudged over.

They tend to be TOO small. You want not to be overwhelmed by the church experience but the opposite of that isn't necessarily better.

anx66 · Jan 30, 2019

Jonaitis said:
I attend a Reformed Baptist Church.

Sovereign Grace Church of Casper, Wyoming

We are a small body, meeting in a hotel conference room (before it was a house). We boast of having the largest baptistery in the whole state of about 500,000 people lol.

When I originally became a Christian I was going to a Baptist Church here in the UK. We used to travel a round trip of about 50 miles twice a day to the Baptist Church. It is a charismatic Baptist Church. Started off as a Baptist Church and then the pastor had a new experience of the Holy Spirit and the church started growing exponentially. I think the numbers are smaller these days, but they are building a new building called the ark.

anx66 · Jan 30, 2019

Albion said:
House churches--

They are fragile, for one thing, and tend to come and go, organize and then disband.

They are DIY by nature and usually are led by laymen who are not trained. Services tend to be more like what you'd find in a Bible study group of any denomination.

There is just no telling what the doctrinal perspective at any one of these house churches is going to be. Often, that's just fudged over.

They tend to be TOO small. You want not to be overwhelmed by the church experience but the opposite of that isn't necessarily better.

The congregation I had been part of, had ideas that were what I call prosperity gospel light, so I did have a little problem with this, and I guess that house churches might suffer a similar thing. Theology, which doesn't necessarily fall in line with scripture. I guess it's something to bare in mind.

Jonaitis · Jan 30, 2019

anx66 said:
When I originally became a Christian I was going to a Baptist Church here in the UK. We used to travel a round trip of about 50 miles twice a day to the Baptist Church. It is a charismatic Baptist Church. Started off as a Baptist Church and then the pastor had a new experience of the Holy Spirit and the church started growing exponentially. I think the numbers are smaller these days, but they are building a new building called the ark.

Maybe in the near future you can visit us when you travel to the states.

anx66 · Jan 30, 2019

Anyway, thanks everyone for your input. There is plenty to pray about. Good chatting to you all, and thanks again. I have to go to bed soon (8pm), as I have to be at work for 4:30am tomorrow.

Albion · Jan 30, 2019

It would be a step forward, I think, if we could get a handle on denominations. You are familiar with churches, not just someone interested in Christianity, so let me put it more directly.

You are familiar with the Baptists and with charismatic Christianity. Is there any reason to look beyond that basic grouping of Christian churches (recognizing that there are some differences between these)? That is so say, should you just leave out the Anglican, Catholics, Methodists, and such? Maybe this is the best approach and would provide a manageable number of congregations for you to visit.

com7fy8 · Jan 30, 2019

anx66 said:
If you could pray that God would turn my life around again, so that I would put my full trust in him.

And this is basic to being able to do well with Christian people. You might be attracting to ones not so Christian so it is easier to have problems. I would say try to find a senior mature person who knows how to relate with you and who can help you get more with God and get real correction which helps you.

anx66 said:
How do you connect with people when you are paranoid and think people can hear what you're thinking all the time?

Well, of course, this can be a problem. And you might have a way of getting with ones who will be a problem for you, if in your mind you can start problems.

You can test reality, by asking someone what they think you are thinking, and see if they are getting it right or not. I have had my proof experiences when I was so sure someone had done something sneaky, but then I discovered that I myself had done it and forgot!! I thought my mother had hidden something, but then I found it exactly where I then remembered I had left it. Also, it is quite an adventure to ask someone why he or she did something, and the answers I have gotten were nowhere's close to what I suspected, plus the answers, I would say, were too creative to be made up.

I mean > you do not accuse someone, but you simply ask, why did you do that or say that?

anx66 said:
What does it mean to be a friend?

For me, with someone who is a problem for me, I feed on how love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7), and so I have hope for the person, in prayer, and trust God to have me be ready to be a good example for the person. Be ready for love, be ready to forgive if the person is not functioning to love. Then you have been a good example who can help that one find out how to love.

anx66 said:
I'm not sure if there are any house churches where I live, and I'm not sure how I would find out. Any ideas?

A church should have organization to know if it has home groups; also, a pastor could know where there are groups, if not in that church. And you might discover a person who really is good for you, then offer that he or she should be doing a home group and you would want to be in it.

Basil the Great · Jan 30, 2019

anx66 said:
It is about God, but it also about people. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and your neighbour as yourself. So, church is about both things. I don't think it's one or the other, but both things.

Yes, very true, but it is first and foremost about one's relationship with God. Having said that, it is extremely important we do show love and mercy to others, especially to the less fortunate.

bèlla · Jan 30, 2019

In fairness to you, this issue has come up on this site many times. I'm left with the belief that there are many like yourself who want to forge connections and they're frequenting venues where the population feels otherwise.

I'm not placing the whole of the issue on the church but this topic keeps coming up. I suspect that most people who go to church have an active social life outside of it and aren't needing to connect in the same manner you may wish to do. I know that was true for me.

I had acquaintances and someone I'd go out with from time to time. But my closest connections were with people I knew for years. Nevertheless, you're not alone and this isn't in your head. Churches can be cliquish and if you're shy or have social anxiety it adds to the challenge.

Oftentimes people are open to developing friendships when doing things they enjoy. You may have better luck with hobbies, sports, or classes that attract a diverse group. At the very least you'll have a common bond and that helps a great deal.

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