a scripture based look at Daniel 9:

Just The Facts said:

So Why 70 years? Does anyone have a scriptural based answer to this first question we must ask if we want to look at Daniel 9 with Scripture as our basis.

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It represents a generation,specifically Daniels. Sometimes it is 40 other times it is 100 however the average is 70 years. So one generation needed to pass before God released them from captivity. This is also a clear way to reveal who the remnant of Israel are.

The days of our lives are seventy years;
And if by reason of strength they are eighty years,
Yet their boast is only labor and sorrow;
For it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

Just The Facts said:

Hello All

So lets start at the beginning.

[2] in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

So Why 70 years? Does anyone have a scriptural based answer to this first question we must ask if we want to look at Daniel 9 with Scripture as our basis.

Why Was Jerusalem to suffer 70 years? Why not 20 years 40 years? Why 70 Years?

Second which will actually help answer Question 1 what is Daniel talking about here.

[11] All Israel has transgressed thy law and turned aside, refusing to obey thy voice. and the curse and oath which are written in the law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him.

What is this curse that Daniel is talking about that he clearly states is the basis of the 70 years of punishment?

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Hi Just The Facts,

I agree with claninja, that the 70 years refers to Israel not keeping its Sabbaths over a period of 490 years which would make 70 Sabbaths.

`And those who escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon.....to fulfil the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her Sabbaths. As long as she lay desolate she kept her Sabbath, to fulfil seventy years.` (2 Chron. 36: 20 & 21)

Marilyn.

Just The Facts said:

Hello All

So lets start at the beginning.

[2] in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

So Why 70 years? Does anyone have a scriptural based answer to this first question we must ask if we want to look at Daniel 9 with Scripture as our basis.

Why Was Jerusalem to suffer 70 years? Why not 20 years 40 years? Why 70 Years?

Second which will actually help answer Question 1 what is Daniel talking about here.

[11] All Israel has transgressed thy law and turned aside, refusing to obey thy voice. and the curse and oath which are written in the law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him.

What is this curse that Daniel is talking about that he clearly states is the basis of the 70 years of punishment?

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To answer your question. Because it was God's perfect timing of the arrival of Christ in the prophecy
People have touched on this. Hopefully this diagram will make it clearer for you.

Actually the perfect timing relates to


Mar. 30, 33 AD Palm Sunday. The Messiah appears as Prince.

`Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, lowly and riding on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey.` (Zech. 9: 9)
`When he (Christ) had said this, He went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem....Then as he was drawing near (on a donkey) the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works they had seen, saying, "Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!....` (Luke 19: 28 - 44)


Marilyn.

Here is a diagram of the 69 weeks ( of 7 years).


…..Mar. 5, 444 BC………7 weeks……I……62 weeks……………………………...Mar. 30, 33 AD (after)

…..Edict…………………….....................…………….....................................Messiah the Prince.





538 B.C. Daniel`s Prophecy. (Dan. 9: 24 – 27)

Mar. 5, 444 BC – Nehemiah 2: 1 – 8 Artaxerxes Longimanus of Persia gives edict to rebuild Jerusalem & Temple.

Mar. 30, 33 AD Palm Sunday. Zechariah 9: 9 & Luke 19: 29 – 44 The Messiah appears as Prince.



(7 & 62 = 69 weeks (x7 years) = 483 yrs. Sabbatical years)

(Prophetic years = 483 yrs x 360 days)
(Calendar years = 476 x 365 . 242 + 25 days)


Marilyn.

Marilyn C said:

Here is a diagram of the 69 weeks ( of 7 years).


…..Mar. 5, 444 BC………7 weeks……I……62 weeks……………………………...Mar. 30, 33 AD (after)

…..Edict…………………….....................…………….....................................Messiah the Prince.





538 B.C. Daniel`s Prophecy. (Dan. 9: 24 – 27)

Mar. 5, 444 BC – Nehemiah 2: 1 – 8 Artaxerxes Longimanus of Persia gives edict to rebuild Jerusalem & Temple.

Mar. 30, 33 AD Palm Sunday. Zechariah 9: 9 & Luke 19: 29 – 44 The Messiah appears as Prince.



(7 & 62 = 69 weeks (x7 years) = 483 yrs. Sabbatical years)

(Prophetic years = 483 yrs x 360 days)
(Calendar years = 476 x 365 . 242 + 25 days)


Marilyn.

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Daniel 9
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’h]'>[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’i]'>[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.


Christ put an end to the sacrifice and offering system of Mosaic law by his crucifixion. This is the only explanation of verse 27.

dougangel said:

Daniel 9
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’h]'>[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’i]'>[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.


Christ put an end to the sacrifice and offering system of Mosaic law by his crucifixion. This is the only explanation of verse 27.

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Hi dougangel,

Actually the explanation is in the context of Dan. 9,

`And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.......he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering...` (Dan. 9: 26 & 27)

That tells us that it is NOT the Lord but the leader to come.

Marilyn.

disciple Clint said:

I think you may be talking about this. What is the 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27? | Bibleinfo.com

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There is also a thread concerning "the gap" in Daniel's 70 weeks.
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

DavidPT said:

If one can come up with a precise day and time when the 70 weeks initially started, and assuming no gaps until completion, how hard should it be to come up with the precise day and time it allegedly finished? Shouldn't be hard at all. I would like to know when the 70 weeks allegedly finished, so I can then see if anything in history was special about that day in particular. And since I believe there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week, I'm not the one that needs to provide a precise day and time the 70 weeks allegedly finished. The ones claiming no gap need to provide this since it seems odd they can know precisely when the 70 weeks began, but can't know precisely when they end, while at the same time claiming they have already ended.

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It looks like the 70 weeks of Daniel is a popular topic in Christianity today, so I thought I would create one and include a poll. I also am interested in discussing this.

Daniel 9:24
‘Seventy<7657> sevens <7620>
7657 shib`iym. shib-eem' multiple of 7651; seventy:--seventy, threescore and ten (+ -teen).
7620 shabuwa` shaw-boo'-ah or shabuan {shaw-boo'-ah}; also (feminine) shbu.ah {sheb-oo-aw'}; properly, passive participle of 7650 as a denominative of 7651; literal, sevened, i.e. a week (specifically, of years):--seven, week.

are decreed<2852> upon thy people<5971>,
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
2852 chathak khaw-thak' a primitive root; properly, to cut off, i.e. (figuratively) to decree:--determine.
5971 `am am from 6004; a people (as a congregated unit); specifically, a tribe (as those of Israel); hence (collectively) troops or attendants; figuratively, a flock:--folk, men, nation, people.

and upon city-of<5892> holiness<6944> of thee
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
5892 `iyr eer or (in the plural) par {awr}; or ayar (Judges 10:4) {aw-yar'}; from 5782 a city (a place guarded by waking or a watch) in the widest sense (even of a mere encampment or post):--Ai (from margin), city, court (from margin), town.
6944 qodesh ko'-desh from 6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstract, sanctity:--consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.

to shut up/refrain<3607> the transgression<6588>,
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
3607 kala' kaw-law' a primitive root; to restrict, by act (hold back or in) or word (prohibit):--finish, forbid, keep (back), refrain, restrain, retain, shut up, be stayed, withhold.
6588 pesha` peh'-shah from 6586; a revolt (national, moral or religious):--rebellion, sin, transgression, trespass.

and to seal-up <2856>[finish<8552>] of sins<2403>,
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
2856 chatham khaw-tham' a primitive root; to close up; especially to seal:--make an end, mark, seal (up), stop.
2403 chatta'ah khat-taw-aw' or chattacth {khat-tawth'}; from 2398; an offence (sometimes habitual sinfulness), and its penalty, occasion, sacrifice, or expiation; also (concretely) an offender:--punishment (of sin), purifying(-fication for sin), sin(-ner, offering).

and to cover/make-atonement <3722> iniquity<5771>,
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
3722 kaphar kaw-far' a primitive root; to cover (specifically with bitumen); figuratively, to expiate or condone, to placate or cancel:-- appease, make (an atonement, cleanse, disannul, forgive, be merciful, pacify, pardon, purge (away), put off, (make) reconcile(-liation).
5771 `avon aw-vone' or oavown (2 Kings 7:9; Psalm 51:5 (7)) {aw-vone'}; from 5753; perversity, i.e. (moral) evil:--fault, iniquity, mischeif, punishment (of iniquity), sin.

and to bring in<935> righteousness<6664> age-during<5769>,
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
935 bow' bo a primitive root; to go or come (in a wide variety of applications):--abide, apply, attain, X be, befall, + besiege, bring (forth, in, into, to pass)...........
6664 tsedeq tseh'-dek from 6663; the right (natural, moral or legal); also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity:--X even, (X that which is altogether) just(-ice), ((un-))right(-eous) (cause, -ly, - ness).
5769 `owlam o-lawm' or lolam {o-lawm'}; from 5956; properly, concealed, i.e. the vanishing point; generally, time out of mind (past or future), i.e. (practically) eternity; frequentatively, adverbial (especially with prepositional prefix) always:--alway(-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal,..........

and to seal up<2856> vision and prophet<5030>,
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
2856 chatham khaw-tham' a primitive root; to close up; especially to seal:--make an end, mark, seal (up), stop.
5030 nabiy' naw-bee' from 5012; a prophet or (generally) inspired man:--prophecy, that prophesy, prophet.

and to anoint<4886> holy<6944> of holies<6944>.
Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
4886 mashach maw-shakh' a primitive root; to rub with oil, i.e. to anoint; by implication, to consecrate; also to paint:--anoint, paint.
6944 qodesh ko'-desh from 6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstract, sanctity:--consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.

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Marilyn C said:

Hi dougangel,

Actually the explanation is in the context of Dan. 9,

`And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.......he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering...` (Dan. 9: 26 & 27)

That tells us that it is NOT the Lord but the leader to come.

Marilyn.

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Hi Marilyn This is a common misconception that there are 2 princes or rulers. There is only 1 prince

25 “Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The h]'>[h]street shall be built again, and the i]'>[i]wall,
Even in troublesome times.

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall j]'>[j]be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a k]'>[k]covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

verse 25 tells us it is talking about the messiah the prince.
In verse 26 the messiah the prince is cut off.

The people of the prince are the Israelites of Jesus's generation not the Romans.
There actions cause Jerusalem and the sanctuary to be destroyed.

dougangel said:

Hi Marilyn This is a common misconception that there are 2 princes or rulers. There is only 1 prince

25 “Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The h]'>[h]street shall be built again, and the i]'>[i]wall,
Even in troublesome times.

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall j]'>[j]be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a k]'>[k]covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

verse 25 tells us it is talking about the messiah the prince.
In verse 26 the messiah the prince is cut off.

The people of the prince are the Israelites of Jesus's generation not the Romans.
There actions cause Jerusalem and the sanctuary to be destroyed.

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Hi dougangel,

God`s word says that `the prince to comes shall destroy the city and the sanctuary,` and that is certainly NOT what the Lord will do.

Marilyn.

Marilyn C said:

Hi dougangel,

God`s word says that `the prince to comes shall destroy the city and the sanctuary,` and that is certainly NOT what the Lord will do.

Marilyn.

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Hi Marilyn,
Oh come on, it does not.

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall j]'>[j]be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

It says the people of the prince. The prince in verse 25.

dougangel said:

Hi Marilyn,
Oh come on, it does not.

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall j]'>[j]be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

It says the people of the prince. The prince in verse 25.

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Hi dougangel,

The Lord does NOT destroy Jerusalem, but the anti-Christ does do considerable damage to it.

Marilyn.

Marilyn C said:

Hi dougangel,

The Lord does NOT destroy Jerusalem, but the anti-Christ does do considerable damage to it.

Marilyn.

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Hi Marilyn,

There is only one individual identified as a prince in Daniel 9.

It is Messiah.

The people of the prince refers to the Roman armies which were Messiah's agents and instruments to accomplish the judgment and destruction which He had prophesied. God's use of such instruments, and His characterization of them as "mine" even though pagan, can be found in several OT instances e.g.:

Jeremiah 25
9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the Lord, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

Jeremiah 43
10 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will send and take Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will set his throne upon these stones that I have hid; and he shall spread his royal pavilion over them.

God characterizes the pagan Nebuchadnezzar as "my servant" in using him and his armies against Judah and Egypt.

In the same way as Nebuchadnezzar, though a pagan, was God's servant in executing His judgment, so too were the pagan Roman armies Messiah's people in accomplishing His purposes.

In addition, the Jews themselves, as the historical people of Prince Messiah, were equally responsible for the destruction and suffering. Their own actions in defiling and destroying the buildings and temple prior to the Roman invasion are described by Josephus:

The Lamentation of Josephus
War 5.1.4 19-20

The darts that were thrown by the engines [of the seditious factions] came with that force, that they went over all the buildings and the Temple itself, and fell upon the priests and those that were about the sacred offices; insomuch that many persons who came thither with great zeal from the ends of the earth to offer sacrifices at this celebrated place, which was esteemed holy by all mankind, fell down before their own sacrifices themselves, and sprinkled that altar which was venerable among all men, both Greeks and barbarians, with their own blood. The dead bodies of strangers were mingled together with those of their own country, and those of profane persons with those of the priests, and the blood of all sorts of dead carcasses stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves.
Oh most wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy internal pollutions! For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou longer survive, after thou hadst been a sepulchre for the bodies of thine own people, and hast made the Holy House itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine. Yet mayst thou again grow better, if perchance thou wilt hereafter appease the anger of that God who is the author of thy destruction.

As seen, Josephus recognizes the Jews as agents of their own destruction, and that destruction as Divinely orchestrated.

Contemporary Jewish historians concur:
"The scene was now set for the revolt's final catastrophe. Outside Jerusalem, Roman troops prepared to besiege the city; inside the city, the Jews were engaged in a suicidal civil war. In later generations, the rabbis hyperbolically declared that the revolt's failure, and the Temple's destruction, was due not to Roman military superiority but to causeless hatred (sinat khinam) among the Jews (Yoma 9b). While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened their victory and immensely increased the casualties. One horrendous example: In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem's Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this "security blanket" would compel everyone to participate in the revolt. The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted."


The people, both Roman and Jewish, of the prince Messiah who was to come, were Messiah's agents and instruments in accomplishing His purposes of judgment and destruction upon those who had rejected Him.

jgr said:

Hi Marilyn,

There is only one individual identified as a prince in Daniel 9.
It is Messiah.
The people, both Roman and Jewish, of the prince Messiah who was to come, were Messiah's agents and instruments in accomplishing His purposes of judgment and destruction upon those who had rejected Him.

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Hi jgr,

The Lord is not concerned about the Romans, but is revealing what will happen to His people Israel in the latter times, and the final Gentile Ruler.

`For your people and for your holy city, to finish....to make an end...etc etc.` (Dan. 9: 24)

Marilyn.

Marilyn C said:

`For your people and for your holy city, to finish....to make an end...etc etc.` (Dan. 9: 24)

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Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." (From the promise of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34.)
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.


Act 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

.

Marilyn C said:

Hi dougangel,

The Lord does NOT destroy Jerusalem, but the anti-Christ does do considerable damage to it.

Marilyn.

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Hi Marilyn, I would have to disagree with you on this point.


Who are the wicked tenants that kill the servants and SON of the vineyard owner? the unfaithful Jews. If anything, the antichrist is/are those who reject the son.
Matthew 21:38 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and take his inheritance.’ So they seized him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

When vineyard owner comes (God) he destroys the wicked tenants and gives the vineyard to those who will bear fruit. It is not the antichrist that comes to destroy the wicked tenants, but the vineyard owner: God.
Matthew 21:40-41 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard COMES, what will he do to those tenants?” “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they declared, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”

The chief priests and Pharisees recognized that Jesus is talking about them
Matthew 21:43-45 Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.k He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.” When the chief priests and Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew He was speaking about them.

In the parable of the wicked tenants, it is God who destroys the unfaithful Jews, not the "antichrist"

The original wedding guests (the Jews) reject the invite and mistreat the servants of God
Matthew 22:5 But they paid no attention and went away, one to his field, another to his business. The rest seized his servants, mistreated them, and killed them.

God then sent "his troops" to destroy the unfaithful Jews and burn their city. Notice it is not the "antichrist" that destroys the murderers and city, but God sending his army.
Matthew 22:7 The king was enraged, and he sent his troops to destroy those murderers and burn their city.

In the parable of the wedding feast, it is God who sends "his troops" to destroy and burn the city of the unfaithful Jews, not the "antichrist"

Marilyn C said:

Hi jgr,

The Lord is not concerned about the Romans, but is revealing what will happen to His people Israel in the latter times, and the final Gentile Ruler.

`For your people and for your holy city, to finish....to make an end...etc etc.` (Dan. 9: 24)

Marilyn.

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Hi Marilyn,

I and others have provided incisive and conclusive witness and testimony from multiple sources in both Scripture and history.

You would need to provide counter evidence.

Marilyn C said:

Hi dougangel,

The Lord does NOT destroy Jerusalem, but the anti-Christ does do considerable damage to it.

Marilyn.

Click to expand...

Nonsense.

Daniel 9
11 All Israel has transgressed your law and turned away, refusing to obey you.

“Therefore the curses and sworn judgments written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against you. 12 You have fulfilled the words spoken against us and against our rulers by bringing on us great disaster. Under the whole heaven nothing has ever been done like what has been done to Jerusalem. 13 Just as it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come on us, yet we have not sought the favour of the Lord our God by turning from our sins and giving attention to your truth. 14 The Lord did not hesitate to bring the disaster on us, for the Lord our God is righteous in everything he does; yet we have not obeyed him.

The 70 weeks and when Jesus appeared was definitely a time of Judgement from God.

It's telling you in Daniel 9 itself the lord brought disaster on Jerusalem.

dougangel said:

Christ put an end to the sacrifice and offering system of Mosaic law by his crucifixion. This is the only explanation of verse 27.

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They were still doing sacrifices and offerings when the Roman army entered the Temple in 70 AD.

Your diagram in #43 is wrong in every aspect. Proved by the fact of the 69 'weeks' finished at the Crucifixion, not Jesus' baptism. Daniel 9:27 in clear. Also you just guessed the date for Stephens death.

keras said:

They were still doing sacrifices and offerings when the Roman army entered the Temple in 70 AD.

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God wasn't the least interested.

Hebrews 10
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

keras said:

Your diagram in #43 is wrong in every aspect. Proved by the fact of the 69 'weeks' finished at the Crucifixion, not Jesus' baptism. Daniel 9:27 in clear. Also you just guessed the date for Stephens death.

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Take a stroll across the island and get Bro. Chris Gedge's book to set yourself straight.