Tithing has been done away with

genez said:

You only can see the word "law." There is the law of grace. The law of mercy. The law of growing in knowledge and grace.... Many laws in Christ's law.

BUT.. Not THE law from which you extract and claim. Jesus nailed tithing to the Cross.

You? Are ripping it down and trying to revive it.

Why? Possibly, in your natural man you so happen to crave a religious system to preoccupy yourself with? Its like a noble boy scout collecting merit badges so he can see evidence of accomplishment to feel good about himself. Self approval is the goal of religion. And, judging others who fail to comply, also provides a sense of satisfaction.

Do I need to say more? Others here can see what I am saying as plain as day. Why not you?

Did someone take you aside and showed you things to make you feel more important than the rest? While, our importance in Christ all resides in how much of the Word of God we comprehend and believe in power of the Spirit. The religious? They are always left scratching their heads.

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It seems brother you do not understand the difference between Christ's Law and the Mosaic law. I'm sorry I could not help you to understand this simple truth.

I agree completely brother, tithing is done away with(along with the rest of the Mosaic Law). We are now under Christ's Law.

Why? Because that is what Christ and the Apostles commanded.
Declared all the counsel of God(Acts 20:26-28)
Continued in Doctrine of the Apostles(Acts 2:42)
Hold Fast to the Doctrine(Titus 1:9)
Paul has Planted the word(2 Thess 3:6)
Hold Fast to the word and Tradtions we have been taught(2 Thess 2:14-17)
Doctrine of Christ(2 John 9-10)
Oberserve these things(2 Tim 5:21)
Be mindful of the words spoken by the prophets and the commandments of the Apostles and Christ(2 Peter 3:1-2, 15-18)
Keep the sound words given by Paul(2 Timohty 1:13-14)
Fully known the Doctrine, continue in things learned(2 Tim 3:10, 14-15)
Laws of God (Rom 13:2,9-10)
Stablish according to the Gospel and preaching of Christ(Romans 16:25-27)
Fully preached the Gospel of Christ(Romans 15:19,29)
Acknowledge things spoken as commandments of the Lord(1 Cor 14:37)
Gospel received by Revelation of Christ(Gal 1:6-12)
Christ the same today yesterday and tomorrow, so to is the word of God the same. (Hebrews 13:8-9)
Keep the Commandments given by Christ(John 14:21,23, Matt 28:20)
Holy word of God is of no private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20-21)

The Approval of God is what is important not the Approval of man
2 Timothy 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Galatians 1:
9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.


Because I do not accept something that is false brother. Though I love you it is clear that you are unwilling to hear the truth, I'm truly sorry.

The Lord showed me these things that I might bring his word to others and by hearing be saved through the truth. I do not esteem myself greater than any(Romans 12:3; Philippians 2:3) but give all glory to the Lord(1 Cor 10:31).

Brother I am sorry you do not understand the truth. May the Lord bring you the truth and light of his word someday.

God bless and Guide you brother.

genez said:

You do realize that in the Temptation of Christ that Satan's tactic was to quote Scripture? Not impressed.

Quoting Scripture can be used to create a false image about oneself.

But, knowing and correctly comprehending Scripture on the other hand, transforms a believer into the image of Christ in ever increasing transformation as our knowledge and understanding expands.

You are so far behind...... I can not go back. You need to find a good teacher who will be straight with you. One you will have a love-hate relationship as he expounds what you wish not to see.

Jesus warned. "If we try to save our life? We will lose it."

Meaning? Save our natural view of things. We will lose our life that is to be found in grace and truth.

Religion is an enemy of God's will for our lives.

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Yes it is better to listen to someone who does not use any of the word of God in your opinion? I love you brother, I am sorry you cannot see the truth.

Quoting scripture can also be used(as I have used it) to quote scritpure and provide the truth to those who have not heard it.

I agree.

I have already received one, who has instructed me in the truth and righteousness contained in the word of God. Were he alive I would have reccommeded you speak to him yourself, maybe he could have guided you to the truth.

True, we must trust in Christ as through faith alone can we be saved.

True, we must judge all things by the Spirit as commanded, with a spiritual mind/view(Ephesians 4:23; 1 Cor 2:15).

I agree, but through Christ and his law we find the truth of God.

God bless and guide you brother.

SwordmanJr said:

Going to the extremes of moral violation and assumed exclusions of the law written on our hearts will not substantiate your claim for incorporating any and every Law of Moses you subjectively choose to include into the framework of Chrst's law for us today. The Sabbath claim simply doesn't work when we read that no man can judge us for the keeping of the Sabbath.

You clearly are more legalistic in your approach to defining the Christian faith and life, and I simply don't buy it. What brand of apastolic to you subscribe, for there are several?

1 John 2:27 is quite clear on matters such as this. The Spirit of the Lord teaches anyone who asks of the Lord who is truly seeking Him for answers, and I have asked the Lord for His wisdom and His thoughts on the matter, and to date He has not substantiated to me the things you folks believe. So, what in all creation can you possibly add that would be of any greater weight than what the Lord Himself provides? The fallacies alone in your argumentation are cause enough to doubt your understanding of doctrinal purity and the voracity of your grounding in what the scriptures actually say in context.

Sorry, but in the scales of biblical balance for proper application of the rules of interpretation coupled with logical continuity, your case is found grossly bankrupt.

Jr.

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The whole law of Moses is done away with. That pretty straightforward brother, what about that statement do you not understand? The Feast day Sabbaths written in the Mosaic law are done, that is because the Feast day sabbaths were not written in stone, but with ink, they were not written by the finger of God, but the hand of a man.

The Remnant Church of Yahshua the Christ of the Apostolic Faith.

Yes but not all given the gift of understanding/knowledge(1 Cor 12:4-11) others are taught the truth through ministers of the Lord with this gift(Ephesians 4:11-13).So if you asked the Lord for the truth/answer and I have come to you with the answer(as the Lord sent me), then the Lord did indeed keep his word to answer any question that has been asked by faith.

I love you brother, I am sorry you cannot or do not want to see the truth.

genez said:

Jesus' problem with the Pharisees was that he could not explain himself.

Its his fault that they failed to believe him.

If Jesus only took more time to find better ways to explain his words he would have never gone to the Cross. Its Jesus's fault that he was crucified....

.... how long does one keep trying?


When does it become the point where we are the fool?

Jesus said something about leaving them be.... also about some ditch, I believe?

I think Jesus wanted to spare us of unneeded stress when he told us to leave them be.

I come here with hopes of learning more in spite of what is. If it were to simply convince another, I would be a fool for trying. I learn by experiencing what my Lord experienced in the face of such thinking.

Yet? The Lord gave us Pharisee Saul as a point of not losing hope.

But, the Lord must do the work in that case.

Grieving the Holy Spirit is a horrible sin.

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I'm sorry you cannot see brother, may the Lord someday Guide you to the truth of his word.

God bless you

SwordmanJr said:

How do you define what it means to "keep the Sabbath"?



I have never known the Lord to make allowances for sin simply on the basis of ignorance. We are ALL guilty regardless of knowledge or ignorance. Rom. 1 alone lays down an edictment at the feet of ALL mankind, in that there is none who can offer up an excuse for not knowing of God's existence and character since creation itself declares His glory.

The difference is the sufficiency of Christ's shed blood to wash away all the sin....not just most of it, or some of it, but ALL of it. We are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, and no amount of haranguing about "law" or "Law" will take away from that. I'm not sying we can willfully go about sinning, just in case someone wants to throw in that accusation.

Defining "good works" as keeping the law of Christ is questionable since we're talking about a Lord who looks upon the heart, not the externals.

Jr.

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It is defined in the bible as doing no work for our own personal gain, it is defined as devoting yourself wholly to the Lord on this day every week to study his word and to do his work alone.

Those without the Law are a Law unto themselves.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Some people only have a small piece of the truth. For example there are some people who have only received the book of Matthew, that is all the light and truth that they have ever known. If they obey everything from the book of Matthew(the Truth they have received) they will be saved. Because they have followed from the Heart the from of Doctrine/truth delivered unto them(Romans 6:17-18).
But we know there is so much more than Matthew to be received and so much more truth and knowledge to bring us closer to God and the Full truth of his word. So lets say the same people received the book of Acts and they believed it was true then they are still saved but are now stronger in the Faith for having more truth but if they deny acts and accept Matthew they are damned for denying truth that was brought to them. So every man is judged by what he has received so those who have died without knowing the true name or having only received the book of Matthew(for example) are saved because they believed wholeheartedly the truth that was given to them and did not have access to the Whole Truth/Correct Name. But they did not have the whole truth and were therefore weaker in the Faith because of it, making it easier to be deceived.

We are judged by the works we are able to perform. An example of What a mean would be if we looked at James 2 or Matt 25:35-40, each of the things mentioned in these are able to be done by the people being mentioned. Did you see a man hungry and feed him? Then you are justified by your works(not saved, but proven true to God by your works). Does that make sense so far brother?

Each thing we do that is Good is laid up in store for us in heaven(Matt 6:19-20) and we we will judged and given according to our works in the Last day(Revelation 20:9-13). Does that make sense brother? I Apologize if I am not accurately articulating what I mean.

If we see our brother hungry and do not help him, instead of being justified(proven true under God's Law) we show ourselves to be an unrighteous servant(James 2:16) because we lack charity(1 Cor 13:2) . But the Lord will still forgive us if we repent(1 John 1:9-10).

Yes we are saved by faith alone. We are afterwards justified by both faith and works. First comes salvation/cleansing of Sin and then afterwards justification. If you choose not to break the Lord's commands then you are adhering to his Law by keeping it.

Defining good works is simple, it is defined in the word of God.
(James 2:14-26; 1 John 3:17-18) because if we have faith we will keep the commandments of the Lord(Revelation 14:12-13; John 14:15-21) and do his works, for Faith without works is dead(James 2:17,20,22,24,26).

BobRyan said:

Acts 15 does not mention "do not take God's name in vain" and does not mention "Love God with all your heart" and does not mention "honor your father and mother" --

It does not mention many commandments of God that are also in the NT but not in Acts 15.

Heb 8:4-11 the New Covenant writes the "Law of God" on the heart and mind known to Jeremiah - in Jer 31:31-33.

Paul says the Commandments of God include the one where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment - Eph 6:2 and are binding on all Christians.

No wonder Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

in the Law of Christ we find the TEN Commandments according to Hebrews 8:6-11 Christ is the one speaking at Sinai giving the Ten Commandments.



Indeed - and what about "taking God's name in vain"?

Abstaining from blood - comes from Lev 17 -- a purely Mosaic Law.



It is not clear at all that Paul was arguing in Acts 15 that taking God's name in vain is ok for Gentiles until they finally get up on their feet as baby Christians - then after that they would have to not take God's name in vain -- and honor their parents.

As for Sabbath and gentiles - even the non-Christian gentiles are in the synagogues on Sabbath in Acts 13, Acts 17, and in Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" coming back week after week for more Gospel preaching.

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Yes, this is true. As I was pointing out to swordmanjr, there are obviously other commands given to the gentiles than what was listed in Acts 15.

Yes it writes the moral law in our hearts, but we also require teachers and preachers to explain the rest of God's Law and traditions. Is this not true(Romans 10:14; Ephesians 4:11-16)?

Yes this is true. God's law in the New covenant includes every single one of the Moral laws, including the seventh day Sabbath.

Yes I agree we are not to take the Lord's name in vain. Do you believe I have done this? If so lay the accusation out for all to see(1 Tim 5:20) and if you be wrong remember the penalty(1 Peter 3:16; Luke 3:14). Yes all moral commands written on stone are in effect, this includes the Seventh day sabbath given with a promise.


Actually it comes into place long before Leviticus read Genesis:
Genesis 9:4
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.


I agree, as I was showing our brother in Christ. They were given more and more milk as time went on not just the few listed in Acts 15. They were also given the ten Commandments first as those are the first laws that were written in the Hearts of the New Christians.

I agree, the Sabbath is still in place as it is a part of the Moral law. And the Moral law was never said to be done away with but is instead shown in NT.

genez said:

I used to know a Yeshiva student. Gary, was his name... Even as a Jew he perplexed me. It was not until later and after I entered into walking in grace did I begin to understand what it was about him that bothered me. Everyone has their own natural way of relating to life. Some are religious. Some are insecure liars. Some are very moralistic. Some are perverse. Some are naturally easy going.... Others can be ambitious. While others? Lazy... We all have a natural side that will manifest as long as we fail to have the Holy Spirit controlling us. All its takes is a sin of pride and we short circuit that connection.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship
with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our
sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his
word is not in us." 1 Jn 1:7-10

​

Its simple to be led by the Spirit. Only if we would only be honest about our area of weakness...
and, also honest about how we take pride in our natural areas of strength! Some people have
naturally a religious nature that makes them think they are being strong.

"When I am weak, I am being strong (in Christ)."

.

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I never claimed to be without sin brother, we are all sinners but through Christ we are saved by faith. And after faith comes justification by works and faith(James 2).

If we are led by the Spirit then we can rightfully discern the word of God. I am not a religious man, but I follow the commands written in the bible as instructed by God. Neither am I a Holy man as I consider the Lord alone to be worthy of the title of Holy(As he alone is without sin). Nor am I prideful, as the Lord commands us to be without pride and to instead be of a humble spirit. I do however preach the word with all boldness of Speech as commanded(Acts 4:29-32; Acts 28:31). I am not strong of myself nor do I give myself praise but I praise the Lord alone, who works through me(Philippians 2:13).

I am strong in the Lord, but of myself I am weak.
Philippians 4:13
13I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Ephesians 6:10
10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

BobRyan said:

good post. I am not trying to accuse anyone of anything when I mention things like "Honor your father and mother" and "do not take God's name in vain" as not being in Acts 15. I am just pointing out that these are commands of God that no Christian would want to break - but they do not appear in Acts 15 - so then Acts 15 is not some sort of 4 sentence Bible for gentiles - it is specifically addressing a very specific issue that came up in the early church.

Some Jewish Christians were adding a burden to gentile Christians that even the non-Jewish Christians of Acts 13 and Acts 17 and Acts 18:4 were not doing to gentile "God fearers" that attended the Synagogue Sabbath services in those cities.



Yes - good points all. God bless you.

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Okay brother, I was just checking. I am sorry for misunderstanding. And I completely agree, those who say Acts 15 is it and there is nothing else don't really have any place to stand on when we look to the rest of Scripture.

This is True.

God bless you as well brother.