NPR referred to Evangelicals as "ragtag Christians" if they support President Trump

Jamsie · Jan 29, 2019

Invalidusername said:
God initiated the situation with Satan, full knowing that Satan would ask for permission to do the deeds against Job. You don't seem to understand that God knows the outcomes of all things and that even the things He seems to allow are things that resulted from a sequence of events that only God could control. Everything is under His control.

I know I have plenty to learn but you are relying on human knowledge.

What you refuse to comprehend is that Satan asking permission requires God to give permission, that is quite straightforward. (That God is fully aware of the outcome does not negate his permission. You seem to think that there is an either/or involved and no one is suggesting such.) You don't seem to understand that I am well aware that God's foreknowledge is not limited or finite...and he doesn't "seems to allow", he does allow. If you read through the posts where do I even hint that God is not in control? (You can't) Scripture offers many verses and narratives where God has allowed certain actions, and of course he knows the outcome would in no way frustrate his perfect will...Genesis 50:20 sums it all well, thus he allowed his brothers to intend and act to harm but God's allowance worked it out for good.

Psalm 81:11-12 "I gave them over...."
Ezekiel 20:25 "...gave them over..."
Romans 1:24 "...gave them over..."
Romans 1:28 "...gave them over..."

timothyu · Jan 29, 2019

Invalidusername said:
Read the Bible. That is the truth. Viewpoints are irrelevant.

That is right so how then is yours relevant compared to mine?

timothyu · Jan 29, 2019

Jamsie said:
What you refuse to comprehend is that Satan asking permission requires God to give permission, that is quite straightforward.

Agreed. If the Tempter's job is to tempt then why not run it past God first on occasion. The Tempter is a servant of God, so subject to approval. God allowed Himself to be tempted in the desert to test the flesh. It was expected of the Tempter to do the will of God and test Him.

Invalidusername · Jan 29, 2019

Jamsie said:
What you refuse to comprehend is that Satan asking permission requires God to give permission, that is quite straightforward. (That God is fully aware of the outcome does not negate his permission. You seem to think that there is an either/or involved and no one is suggesting such.) You don't seem to understand that I am well aware that God's foreknowledge is not limited or finite...and he doesn't "seems to allow", he does allow. If you read through the posts where do I even hint that God is not in control? (You can't) Scripture offers many verses and narratives where God has allowed certain actions, and of course he knows the outcome would in no way frustrate his perfect will...Genesis 50:20 sums it all well, thus he allowed his brothers to intend and act to harm but God's allowance worked it out for good.

Psalm 81:11-12 "I gave them over...."
Ezekiel 20:25 "...gave them over..."
Romans 1:24 "...gave them over..."
Romans 1:28 "...gave them over..."

Reread my post.

Invalidusername · Jan 29, 2019

timothyu said:
That is right so how then is yours relevant compared to mine?

I don't have a viewpoint. I just follow what God says

Jamsie · Jan 29, 2019

Invalidusername said:
Reread my post.

Yes, and you should be careful with your use of permission as it undermines what you attempt to not accept. At some point it may be worth, as it is to all of us, to give thought to what "silly" theologians have to say on difficult subjects since they have committed their lives in such study...are you well versed in Greek and Hebrew? If not, then one misses much...

Radagast · Jan 29, 2019

Jamsie said:
Then we agree....the scriptures do not support unconditional support of either governments or leaders.

It all depends on what you mean by "support."

Radagast · Jan 29, 2019

Jamsie said:
It seems those who blindly misinterpret Romans 13

Are you making an accusation there?

BobRyan · Jan 29, 2019

timothyu said:
Rid yourselves of the Christian concept of satan

Christians rather enjoy being "Christian" which means accepting the Bible teaching on Satan - who is the enemy of Christ. See Matthew 4. See Job 1. See Rev 12.

which confuses things and understand that the Tempter spoken of was created by God for the specific purpose of testing man's allegiance to the will of God.

That is creative writing.

timothyu · Jan 29, 2019

BobRyan said:
Christians rather enjoy being "Christian" which means accepting the Bible teaching on Satan - who is the enemy of Christ.

Bible teaching refers to the Tempter and 'satan' means adversary to the will of God. That is why Peter once earned the moniker. We're all satan's when you come right down to it.

timothyu · Jan 29, 2019

BobRyan said:
That is creative writing.

No it is not. It is common knowledge to the Jews. Not convenient to churches that like to scare people to serve their needs.

Jamsie · Jan 29, 2019

Radagast said:
It all depends on what you mean by "support."

Should Christians support abortion though it is the law of the land...I don't believe so. Support as defined by affirming and in agreement with laws and such contrary to a Christian worldview... there are also issues that one may disagree with that do not necessarily pertain to a Christian worldview. Does that help?

Jamsie · Jan 29, 2019

Radagast said:
Are you making an accusation there?

Take it any way you choose...in context "It seems those who blindly misinterpret Romans 13 neglect "...and unto God the things that are God's." So reference "unconditional" so that for Christians God's laws supersede the laws of man that oppose or are contrary.

Radagast · Jan 29, 2019

Jamsie said:
Should Christians support abortion though it is the law of the land...

We have an obligation to say that it's immoral. That does not contradict Romans 13.

In those rare situations where Christians are ordered to perform an abortion, they have a duty to refuse.

Radagast · Jan 29, 2019

Jamsie said:
those who blindly misinterpret Romans 13

And who exactly are you accusing here?

Go Braves · Jan 29, 2019

BobRyan said:
You are welcome

I didn't thank you, Bob. I was thankful for the fellow who did your job for you by providing the actual link to NPR. He gave the correct information, not you.

Sparagmos · Jan 30, 2019

BobRyan said:
And condemns anyone who agrees with them in the actual article.

Moving the goalposts, eh?

A minority of Christians agree with them. People here condemn each other all the time for theological differences. So what’s your point?

Jamsie · Jan 30, 2019

Radagast said:
We have an obligation to say that it's immoral. That does not contradict Romans 13.

In those rare situations where Christians are ordered to perform an abortion, they have a duty to refuse.

Where did I disagree?

Jamsie · Jan 30, 2019

Radagast said:
And who exactly are you accusing here?

Do I need to define "unconditional" for you...it is pretty clear from my posts that within God's will outcomes can be both predictive/efficacious and permissive. As I noted elsewhere one can certainly disagree with some of the posted verses by simply explaining what the wording means contrary to allowing.

BobRyan · Jan 30, 2019

Jamsie said:
Should Christians support abortion though it is the law of the land...I don't believe so. Support as defined by affirming and in agreement with laws and such contrary to a Christian worldview... there are also issues that one may disagree with that do not necessarily pertain to a Christian worldview. Does that help?

to vote against it, to preach against it, to pray against it, to provide alternatives, to refuse to participate in it --- that is what the Christian can do.. And it is legal.

NPR referred to Evangelicals as "ragtag Christians" if they support President Trump

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