Advice needed, turning around

Invalidusername said:

I am blind and lacking discernment.

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You're discerning enough to say that you're blind and lacking discernment.

Jesus told the Pharisees, "if you were blind you would not be guilty of sin; but as you claim you can see, your guilt remains." John 9:41.
He also criticised the church in Laodicea for saying they were rich, wealthy and did not need anything - when the reality was that they were poor, wretched, blind and pitiful, Revelation 3:17-18.

So Jesus had a problem with people who claimed that they were discerning, rich and spiritually well, when he knew that the opposite was true.
As you are not doing that, but stating how blind and un discerning you are, I suggest that means there is hope for you.

Strong in Him said:

You're discerning enough to say that you're blind and lacking discernment.

Jesus told the Pharisees, "if you were blind you would not be guilty of sin; but as you claim you can see, your guilt remains." John 9:41.
He also criticised the church in Laodicea for saying they were rich, wealthy and did not need anything - when the reality was that they were poor, wretched, blind and pitiful, Revelation 3:17-18.

So Jesus had a problem with people who claimed that they were discerning, rich and spiritually well, when he knew that the opposite was true.
As you are not doing that, but stating how blind and un discerning you are, I suggest that means there is hope for you.

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Good point. Maybe there is still hope. I do not know why God would want to give me a 2nd chance but I won't look at a gift horse in the mouth. I will just accept that somehow God made me aware of my sin and gave me a desire to turn away from it.

Invalidusername said:

Emotions are not that simple. You have never experienced extreme apathy.

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Have you known the things I've experienced over 62 years of life?

Clearly I will be fearful on judgement day if I am truly a reprobate soul and my soul will be tormented forever and forever but I am incapable of being afraid of that right now.

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God said we have to make a decision to fear, that is the fear of the Lord which is a good thing. Sorry but you're willfully choosing to stand in opposition to it. I don't care if you're feeling it or not! SERVING GOD IS NOT A FEELING! It's being obedient!

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. Heb 4:1

So tell me! What do you read above? Does it say that fear (that is the fear of the Lord) is just an automatic thing? If so why did he tell them this is what they should do? !!! So you're just wanting sobering thoughts which keep us all straight and in line to just be in you automatically. NO! You have to consider things and know the ramifications of not coming into compliance! (look below please)

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 2 Pt 3:10,11

So you're to consider the things of the future the way they're going to be and let that be your motivation to get yourself straight if you find your motivation based on just love isn't enough. Now what if you say, Sorry it doesn't do it for me....than you're a willful rebel. You're willfully choosing to mock God that these things aren't worthy to be concerned about or fearful about!

I am blind and lacking discernment.

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You can think just like ANY MAN can think! You can reason! You can assess! You can see what God says about future judgement and respond in a wise manner. Or you can choose to do your own thing and try to half way blame God if things don't work out for you. The choice is yours! But God will not be blamed. If he said you can "therefore fear" Heb 4:1 (the good kind of sobering fear) than you can! I trust you will wake up and smell the roses! God wants you to enjoy them!

Bobber said:

You know NOTHING about the things I've experienced over 62 years of live!



God said we have to make a decision to fear, that is the fear of the Lord which is a good thing. Sorry but you're willfully choosing to stand in opposition to it. I don't care if you're feeling it or not! SERVING GOD IS NOT A FEELING! It's being obedient!

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. Heb 4:1

So tell me! What do you read above? Does it say that fear (that is the fear of the Lord) is just an automatic thing? If so why did he them this is what they should do? !!! So you're just wanting sobering thoughts which keep us all straight and in line to just be in you automatically. NO! You have to consider things and know the ramifications of not coming into compliance! (look below please)

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 2 Pt 3:10,11

So you're to consider the things of the future the way they're going to be and let that be your motivation to get yourself straight if you find your motivation based on just love isn't enough. Now what if you say, Sorry it doesn't do it for me....than you're a willful rebel. You're willfully choosing to mock God that these things aren't worthy to be concerned about or fearful about!



You can think just like ANY MAN can think! You can reason! You can assess! You can see what God says about future judgement and respond in a wise manner. Or you can choose to do your own thing and try to half way blame God if things don't work out for you. The choice is yours! But God will not be blamed. If he said you can "therefore fear" (the good kind of sobering fear) than you can! I trust you will wake up and smell the roses! God wants you to enjoy them!

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I have chosen to fear God and that is why I am attempting to repent. However my fear is completely intellectual. I don't experience the emotion of it. I used to be able to tremble and quiver with fear over the notion of hell or being a reprobate but now there's nothing. I am a dry well. I can intellectually do things that God has commanded me to do but I am simply saying as an emotion, I am incapable of fear. That is what I mean.

If its of God.. He will NEVER use fear.. God has not given you the spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind. He will ALWAYS use PEACE.. you will get a peace about it. As for sin? Please.. as a preacher on the radio in collage said.. I don't think any have sinned as much as me.. repent.. get up dust off and keep going. For GOD does not judge you condemn you.. WHAT EVER it is.. you repent.. and then KNOW He forgives you.. He does NOT remember it after that.. He does not EVER condemn you..no guilt from God EVER!

He set you free.. sin no longer has a hold on you.. He your FATHER HELLO! Always makes a way out for you.. so if you miss it.. RUN TO HIM! Always FOR YOU..NEVER EVER EVER EVER against you. Your doing REALLY REALLY good! GOD IS FOR YOU! Just talk to Him ALL the time.. pray about EVERYTHING.. JESUS IS IN YOU! You have no clue as to how much He loves you.. and again IS FOR YOU

Rosesandthorns said:

I don't feel saved even now so I can't trade him. The whole point of this post is I am trying to crawl back to him..

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Hi Rose-
Salvation is not a thing you get, it is a person you know. We can "feel" good emotions when a relationship is going well, but we can't "feel" the relationship, we either have them or we don't.

The gospel is so beautiful because we are told facts about what God has done out of his great love for us:

1) Romans 5:8: While we were still enemies of God Jesus died for us.
2) Ephesians 1:3-14 We are told that we have been given every blessing to enable us to live in union with God. God the Holy Spirit is given to those who by faith have responded to the Father's overtures in Christ; the Spirit is our guarantee of that father/child relationship.
3) Romans 6:1-11 Paul reminds us that since we have been immersed into the life of Jesus we share with him a life that is pleasing to the Father and are guaranteed a resurrected life like his. Therefore sin will have no dominion over us.
4) Ephesians 4:20-24: Paul reminds us that we now have a "new self" creted in the likeness of God and provided to us through Jesus finished work. So we take off our "old self", renew our minds by hearing God's perspective in his Word and putting on the new life, imitating Christ Jesus.

My feelings toward my family change all the time, but my mother is always my mother regardless of my feelings. In a similar way, if you respond to what the Father has revealed about his love toward you through Christ in relational trust (i.e. Faith), you entered into a relationship with the Father on that basis, not on the basis of your failings or feelings, but on the basis of his kindness and character.

Here's how the writer of Hebrews encourages us as we face temptation and sin:

1. Jesus is our amazing high priest (v.14)
2. Therefore he is worthy of our affectionate loyalty (that's what "confession" means in v.14)
3. The reason he is so great is that he successfully resisted every temptation (v.15)
4. ...But because he actually experienced temptation he has deep, compassionate sympathy for us in our weakness, our inability to resist temptation on our own (v.15)
5. What's our response? We constantly "behold him" by returning to the cross, the physical, historical expression of God's deep, father-longing, to draw us to himself in Jesus. In our weakness we are dommanded "draw near to my throne" and are promised grace to overcome temptation as we see Jesus as more valuable than the false and death producing desires that drive us apart from this new life. Side note: Ephesians 4:20-24 indicates that our old self is corrupt (rotting meat) as a result of giving in to "deceptive desires" - promises that are never kept. In contrast, Jesus died to show the depth of God's commitment to us. Keeping that forward-most in my mind helps fuel my devotion and is the "grace", already given, that enables me to successfully face down temptation.)

You don't need to crawl back. When you are face to face with the deep ocean of God's love and his willingness to enter history to die in your place, you can confidently draw near to the throne of grace and receive grace and mercy. He is not stingy. He keeps no record of wrongs. Faith is not a feeling, it is relational trust in what a person has said. The Father has said that in Christ you are a new creation. Will you believe him and draw near or will you choose to trust your feelings over what he has said is real?

Walk in the delight of his love for you.

Invalidusername said:

Good point. Maybe there is still hope. I do not know why God would want to give me a 2nd chance

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Probably for the same reason that he gave me a 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 10th, 20th chance. He is love, 1 John 4:8; love never gives up, always hopes, protects and never fails, 1 Corinthians 13:7-8. He has lavished this love upon us 1 John 3:1 - not because we are worthy, but because he loves, is love and loves to love those made in his image.

Invalidusername said:

but I won't look at a gift horse in the mouth. I will just accept that somehow God made me aware of my sin and gave me a desire to turn away from it.

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Strong in Him said:

Probably for the same reason that he gave me a 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 10th, 20th chance. He is love, 1 John 4:8; love never gives up, always hopes, protects and never fails, 1 Corinthians 13:7-8. He has lavished this love upon us 1 John 3:1 - not because we are worthy, but because he loves, is love and loves to love those made in his image.

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I appreciate your words of encouragement however if you knew the amount of enlightenment that I had and the severity of the sins I committed, you would have less hope.

Invalidusername said:

I appreciate your words of encouragement however if you knew the amount of enlightenment that I had and the severity of the sins I committed, you would have less hope.

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No - I have hope in God, who forgives, and loves, endlessly.
In the OT, King Ahab married a woman who worshipped other gods. He was weak, listened to her, sinned against God and was described as a king who "sold himself to do evil in the eyes of the Lord", 1 Kings 21:25-26. Yet when Elijah told him how God was going to punish him, Ahab repented, 1 Kings 21:27,
and was forgiven, 1 Kings 21:29.

I've read books/testimonies from people who've been drug addicts, thieves, murderers, in prison, been involved in the occult, murdered someone/people - and been forgiven, cleansed and made new by God. I've read about evangelists/Christian leaders who written books, led many to the Lord, then got caught in fraud/adultery/drinking; who've been disciplined, and maybe even struggled with their faith for a while, but have rediscovered the God who will never let them go.

It's all from God. HE is love, patient, kind, forgiving, full of grace and waiting to bless and restore. All you have to do is want that, ask for it and then receive his Holy Spirit to help you to walk in the truth.

Invalidusername said:

I appreciate your words of encouragement however if you knew the amount of enlightenment that I had and the severity of the sins I committed, you would have less hope.

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It's kind of hard for you to receive and listen to truth, yeah? You need to pray for God to break that giant wall of yours...

Invalidusername said:

I know that because I failed to be conformed to Christ's image.

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Well, of course, you failed to be conformed to the image of Christ. You can only produce more of you. It is only God who can make you godly, who can make you like Christ. If that isn't happening, it's because you have yet to yield yourself to God's will and way. It is only in a place of surrender before God that the flow of His transforming power moves unimpeded into and through your life.

Invalidusername said:

The verse that you quoted in Romans 8:13 is a warning to Christians since unregenerate people do not have the Spirit. I had the choice to be conformed or not and I did for a period of time... until I allowed bitterness to enter me.

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Yeah, you're making too much of yourself - what you do or don't do - and far too little of God. This is your core problem it seems to me. God saves us; we don't save ourselves. You appear to think that your salvation is all up to you, though. I suppose this is what happens when you are your main interest rather than God.

Invalidusername said:

Emotions are not that simple. You have never experienced extreme apathy.

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A person with extreme apathy does not post frequently on a Christian forum about his inability to care about his spiritual state. The person's writing about it at all belies their claim to apathy.

Invalidusername said:

Clearly I will be fearful on judgement day if I am truly a reprobate soul and my soul will be tormented forever and forever but I am incapable of being afraid of that right now. I am blind and lacking discernment.

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Again, your focus is on you, magnifying your condition and diminishing God's power as you do.

If you were truly blind, you would be blind to your own blindness. This is, in part, what the Bible means by spiritual blindness. As well, if you do lack discernment, your posts show that you aren't utterly without it. There's hope for you yet. In fact, I don't think you are anywhere near as far gone as you seem to think you are.

aiki said:

Well, of course, you failed to be conformed to the image of Christ. You can only produce more of you. It is only God who can make you godly, who can make you like Christ. If that isn't happening, it's because you have yet to yield yourself to God's will and way. It is only in a place of surrender before God that the flow of His transforming power moves unimpeded into and through your life.

Yeah, you're making too much of yourself - what you do or don't do - and far too little of God. This is your core problem it seems to me. God saves us; we don't save ourselves. You appear to think that your salvation is all up to you, though. I suppose this is what happens when you are your main interest rather than God.

A person with extreme apathy does not post frequently on a Christian forum about his inability to care about his spiritual state. The person's writing about it at all belies their claim to apathy.

Again, your focus is on you, magnifying your condition and diminishing God's power as you do.

If you were truly blind, you would be blind to your own blindness. This is, in part, what the Bible means by spiritual blindness. As well, if you do lack discernment, your posts show that you aren't utterly without it. There's hope for you yet. In fact, I don't think you are anywhere near as far gone as you seem to think you are.

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I understand however there was a time when I would get heavily convicted of sin and I would repent of it. This lead up to me reading up the Bible and then I repented of my sins permanently(at least I thought it was) and put my faith in Jesus. I started to follow God and His way for a while. But eventually there came a time when I started to fight my convictions... Again and again and again thinking that God would chastise me and stop me. It kept going until one day my convictions just disappeared and I was right back into my sin. I was in a state of complete darkness, completely unaware of my sin. Until one day the veil was removed from my eyes and I saw how low I had sank.

Well no wonder you ended up in a state of darkness! If you were once saved and then deliberately and consciously chose to fight against your godly convictions, as you put it, what on earth do you expect?

It's really very simple - either you choose to follow Jesus or you don't. He's no stranger to people consciously and deliberately walking away from Him. Many people stopped following Him during his ministry on earth because they just couldn't handle the reality of His teaching (John 6:66).

And as for your state of darkness - it's totally self-inflicted. If people deliberately choose to sin against God when they know they shouldn't, then what does the Bible say? It says He will give them over to a reprobate mind (Romans 1:28).

So stop wallowing in self-pity and get right with God. You know what you have to do and about a million people have probably told you, including on this forum.

Invalidusername said:

I understand however there was a time when I would get heavily convicted of sin and I would repent of it.

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Yes, the Holy Spirit does convict us of sin - in order to lead us to Jesus so that, after repentance, we have forgiveness.

Invalidusername said:

This lead up to me reading up the Bible and then I repented of my sins permanently(at least I thought it was) and put my faith in Jesus.

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It may be controversial, but I don't believe we can repent of future sins.
We repent, which means turning around - we make a conscious choice to turn away from sin and towards Jesus. But we are still human, may be weak and live in a fallen world; sometimes we sin again. When that happens, we need to confess again and be made clean. Trusting in Jesus doesn't mean we'll never sin again, it means that when we do, we have someone who understands, intercedes for us, 1 John 2:1, and can, and will, forgive us again, 1 John 1:9.

So when we sin after becoming a Christian, it doesn't mean we weren't saved before, weren't "doing it right" or anything else; it means that we already know the Saviour, who died to reconcile us to God, and know where, and how, we can find forgiveness.

Invalidusername said:

But eventually there came a time when I started to fight my convictions...

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Do you mean that you were fighting the conviction that God wanted you to repent and come to him?

Invalidusername said:

Again and again and again thinking that God would chastise me and stop me.

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God had convicted you and shown you that what you were doing was wrong.
But he also created you with a will, and mind, of your own. If you know what is right but continually fight the urge to do it, why expect God to jump in and force you back onto the right way, or make it impossible for you to keep committing the same sin? That's a bit like a teenager who falls over because he is drunk and then sits on the ground waiting for daddy to pick him up so that he can walk again.
You KNOW what you were doing was wrong, because you were expecting chastisement. Ask for God's help in stopping that sin, or being set free from its power, by all means - but don't continue in it thinking "I'll carry on until God stops me".

Invalidusername said:

It kept going until one day my convictions just disappeared and I was right back into my sin.

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That's not surprising. The Bible calls it hardening of the heart, and if it continues; if you constantly reject the prompting of the Spirit in all areas of your life, and continue to do so for years, a time will come when you no longer hear, recognise or respond to such promptings. That time has not yet come, because you're on here, writing about your sin and blindness and wanting to follow God again.

Invalidusername said:

I was in a state of complete darkness, completely unaware of my sin.

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You WERE - you don't seem to be now. Which shows that God has not given up on you.
You appear to have given up on yourself, and are giving reasons why your sin is too great, or that you, alone, are beyond God's help - but that is not true. Whether you are too proud, or too depressed, to be able to see it, is for you to say.

Invalidusername said:

Until one day the veil was removed from my eyes and I saw how low I had sank.

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The "veil was removed from your eyes" by God, who wanted to show you how low you had sunk, so that you could turn to him again and be forgiven and helped.

Strong in Him said:

Do you mean that you were fighting the conviction that God wanted you to repent and come to him?

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I never understood repenting after you sinned. I always understood repentance was a one time thing. You repent and accept Jesus and after that you live a life of sanctification.

What scares me is the thing you talk about the hardening of the heart. I was so blind that I could not see the truth and the fact that I even entered that state is a concept that I will never recover from. Yes I see the truth now but the fact that God allowed me to slip into that state of spiritual comatose is terrifying. I think I am forever a bird with clipped wings.

Invalidusername said:

I was so blind that I could not see the truth and the fact that I even entered that state is a concept that I will never recover from. Yes I see the truth now but the fact that God allowed me to slip into that state of spiritual comatose is terrifying.

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So there you go pointing a finger at God. Nope! You better keep it pointed to yourself if you ever want help from God! It seems to me Adam tried this....."The woman you gave me Lord! She gave me the fruit and I did eat!" So it's God's fault and the woman's fault. Nope not mine!

I think I am forever a bird with clipped wings.

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So you tell me what does the Bible teach about the precious blood of Jesus? You've made a boast here earlier that you've had much enlightenment....OK...well enlighten us...again what does the blood of Jesus do? What's it's power and capability. When it's declared and decreed how does it effect one's consciousness in relation to their consciousness of sin?

Bobber said:

So there you go pointing a finger at God. Nope! You better keep it pointed to yourself if you ever want help from God! It seems to me Adam tried this....."The woman you gave me Lord! She gave me the fruit and I did eat!" So it's God's fault and the woman's fault. Nope not mine!

So you tell me what does the Bible teach about the precious blood of Jesus? You've made a boast here earlier that you've had much enlightenment....OK...well enlighten us...again what does the blood of Jesus do? What's it's power and capability. When it's declared and decreed how does it effect one's consciousness in relation to their consciousness of sin?

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I did not point any fingers at God. I sinned but I do know that God gave me over to it. There is a point when God's patience comes to an end and He gives people over to their sin.

The blood of Christ cleanses us of all sin and makes us clean before God. However if you wander away from that, you re-crucify Christ unto yourself afresh and trample on the cross, profaning the covenant that made you pure. When this has happened, no salvation is possible because no sacrifice remains for our sins but rather a fearful expectation of upcoming judgement.

Invalidusername said:

No I am not saying it's too late for you. It is too late for me. I still have hope for you. Just remember God is far more important than some boyfriend or anything. Don't trade Christ for anything.

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Hi, brother.
These are not the words of an apathetic person. Nor are they the words of someone for whom there is no hope. These words can only be written if directed by the Holy Spirit, so do not let the enemy deceive you.

Invalidusername said:

I did not point any fingers at God. I sinned but I do know that God gave me over to it. There is a point when God's patience comes to an end and He gives people over to their sin.

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Well my thought on that is people he gave them over to a certain way of thinking it means he wasn't going to henceforth keep trying to encourage them out of it. In other words if they want that let them have at it. But you're not in that category. You do feel remorse and are wanting God. You're not the type that wants to get rid of God from your knowledge.

I don't even see evidence (if you're talking about Rom 1) that even though God gave them up that he would reject them from coming back if they finally got so sick and tired of the craziness of their lives. The problem is though many groups in our culture won't although some may choose to among their numbers. I mean even with the prodigal son the Father gave him up to do whatever he wanted to do. The prodigal could still come back though and the Father more than willingly restored him.

The blood of Christ cleanses us of all sin and makes us clean before God.

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Yes exactly......

However if you wander away from that, you re-crucify Christ unto yourself afresh and trample on the cross, profaning the covenant that made you pure. When this has happened, no salvation is possible because no sacrifice remains for our sins but rather a fearful expectation of upcoming judgement.

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OK now you're taking this from Heb 6. Let's talk about it. From commentaries I've read about this one should be looking at the verses before what you quoted. which talks of the doctrines of Christ. Heb 6:1 I think you've got to consider what happens when one falls away from the doctrines of Christ.

That would mean that they had went back and would start making the claims of the enemies of Christ that Jesus was a false Messiah and false king. Therefore they would metaphorically be re crucifying him, because they were agreeing with the way of thinking that caused Jesus to be judged in the first place.

When they would do this even after experiencing enlightenment, had tasted of the heavenly gift, a partaker of the Holy Ghost and had tasted of the good word of God....God through their experience before and demonstrated the credibility of the gospel's claims with every method possible to convince them. Seeing there was nothing more to have convinced them they therefore would be considered in a place where they couldn't repent. (from what I see in that scripture)

I mean on what basis could they do so? Everything to do which would convince them they had now rejected. It doesn't seem to me that you've ever rejected the doctrines of Christ. You actually do have faith in them and are willing to walk in the light of them. Seeing you're willing to do that shows you can follow through with that and repent.

Now let's talk about Esau too for many bring up Esau could not find a place of repentance. That doesn't mean he genuinely was wanting to repent. That simply means he cried out for things to go better in his life but only on his terms.

Again you're not a person like that. It seems you're willing to come to God on his terms and bring your life into compliance with his will. We express a thought similar in words (and I'm not talking about to do with God but about other matters]

We might say I couldn't find within myself to do A, B or C for an individual. That still doesn't mean we're not capable of doing so but for whatever reason we're not willing. There also an interesting piece from one writer on the Esau issue you might find of interest as well. It states that Esua wasn't really trying to repent that is from any sin but rather was trying to get the family blessing he has lost. If one goes back to Genesis and read the larger passage it does seem to agree with that. (click on the link below)

Is It Ever Too Late to Repent?