International Feminism

Hieronymus

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Yes they do. They're not interested.
They don't even know it exists or where to get it.
And when you search for it, it's one false teaching after another you will encounter.
 
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bèlla

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They don't even know it exists or where to get it.
And when you search for it, it's one false teaching after another you will encounter.

Are you looking for men or the Word of God? You don't need a sermon. The book will do.
 
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Hieronymus

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Are you looking for men or the Word of God? You don't need a sermon. The book will do.
I definitely needed both though.
I find the Bible a difficult book.
As a noob, every 4 sentences i had a choice between at least 2 ways to interpret it..
Besides that, you need reasons to ascribe credibility to the Bible too.
To me the truth of the Bible and Jesus Christ was the most unlikely thing.
Because i knew nothing of what i know now.
 
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bèlla

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I definitely needed both though.
I find the Bible a difficult book.
As a noob, every 4 sentences i had a choice between at least 2 ways to interpret it..
Besides that, you need reasons to ascribe credibility to the Bible too.
To me the truth of the Bible and Jesus Christ was the most unlikely thing.
Because i knew nothing of what i know now.

I don't believe you're alone. But I do believe God meets us where we are. He knows the best avenue for our homecoming. I met a pastor who came to faith by reading the bible while in solitary confinement. He was Muslim but that's the only reading material they had.

When he got out of prison he went to college and studied for the ministry. He's married with a child. I heard his testimony personally while sharing my own. We marveled how God draws His people.

Although I was raised Roman Catholic it took Jews to bring me back. God is able to work through our wickedness to reach His children. There's always a ram in the bush. :)
 
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JCFantasy23

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bekkilyn

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May I ask a question? Do you feel the same outrage for other subjects or only regarding feminism? And have you stated the same elsewhere on the site?

Let me quote something that you said in another post (a discussion concerning Trump, Christians, and racism) that might help in this discussion:

"I overheard the conversation and understood what she implied in her words. She attributed my identity to a color and didn't see the person at all. Diversity in thought and behavior weren't well-received. I've encountered others with a similar mindset."

The same can be applied to gender. What has been so offensive in this thread has been the assigning of the entire identity of a person to a gender, and not seeing the actual *person* at all.

And *that* is why we still need feminism. Because until people *stop* seeing people as genders vs. real, living, thinking people, then we start categorizing people as greater or lesser based on it. That whole "separate but equal" thing that didn't work out at all with race and doesn't work out any better with gender.

God doesn't see us as genders, but as unique, individual persons where even the individual hairs on our heads is precious, and he's given us all unique personalities, desires, spiritual gifts, and talents. No two of us are alike.

While males and females have been given different physical tools for the purpose of producing children, we are all human people on the inside and one's physical sex on the inside is irrelevant.

There are no appropriate roles for ALL women and for ALL men. That's an offensive idea for both because it assumes that God created all women the same and created all men the same rather than as the unique individual people we all are. We are not stereotypes.

I would love to not have to continue to defend women and feminism because I'm not really all that interested in the subject to be fully honest, but since it directly affects me and other people that I love and my neighbors here and all around the world who we are commanded to love, and I see what happens to women in many parts of the world and even here in many places in the U.S. when inequity and injustice exist, I don't have the privilege to ignore it.

Even during times when I've attempted to ignore it, pretending that the injustices do not exist, it continues to rear its ugly head, and it seems to happen quite a bit here on CF. I often find myself wondering if some here even comprehend that women are real people with the same hopes, dreams, fears, emotions, loves, etc. as men.

Not that anyone has ever been able to adequately define what makes a person masculine or feminine anyway or why it's even important.
 
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bèlla

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The same can be applied to gender. What has been so offensive in this thread has been the assigning of the entire identity of a person to a gender, and not seeing the actual *person* at all.

Thank you for quoting the post. I'm glad you liked it. :)

Shiloh is unique. I couldn't make that comment to many people. But I posted it to provide a different perspective. I've shared my background with her and she's willing to listen.

I have not been exposed to feminism. I was reared in a different environment. Ladyship and deportment were paramount. My family was fastidious about place and conduct. I am not addressing place in relation to gender. They wanted me to succeed. But gains at the expense of etiquette and breeding were unfathomable to them. That isn't a treaty against success but an understanding that the way we scale is equally important.

The bible tells us that a gentle answer turns away wrath. It is a reminder that you will rarely influence someone or sway them towards your cause through anger or yelling. You don't have to raise your voice to yell. It's in your countenance. Have you ever been approached by someone selling something. You didn't need it but their personality and conduct swayed you and you said okay, give me one?

Women were knit with an ability to assuage the horrors and hardships society is facing. But the people you're addressing will not be won by jockeying or any form masculinity. I support eloquence and an intelligent delivery. But doing it as one of the boys rarely works.

I have found in my interactions with the opposite sex that God's wisdom is true. I have never experienced racism or sexism. Not because I'm special or fortunate. I think it's largely due to the experiences and values that were impressed on me at a young age. Foundational truths that I passed on to my daughter. Her experiences echo mine.

And *that* is why we still need feminism. Because until people *stop* seeing people as genders vs. real, living, thinking people, then we start categorizing people as greater or lesser based on it. That whole "separate but equal" thing that didn't work out at all with race and doesn't work out any better with gender.

I am a woman of color. I've dated interracially for over 20 years. I was a single parent. I had a successful career in wealth management. I retired in my mid-30's. My accomplishments were not the result of a trust fund. I am the beneficiary of much favor from men and women. And most of them were Caucasian.

I have never been a fan of labels for this reason. Oftentimes people negate their divinity for the philosophy of their cause. God said I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. I don't need to add anything to that. And I think there would be greater progress if both sides treated each other with more courtesy in their dialogues. It's become too negative and both are culpable.

I believe a better approach to the subject would be to start and end with God in mind. Jesus didn't trade barbs when he dealt with His accusers or scoffers. And the beauty that is uniquely woman is sullied when we do the same. If you understood the power you possessed you'd never raise your voice. If you realized how deeply you can soothe a man's woundedness you'd speak his language.

And if you grasped his inherent need to protect and provide (if he's healthy), you'd know that it's more than money and control at stake. That's innate for him as well. The challenge is discovering how we can support each other in light of our dreams and interests. Not split hairs.

The person you're yelling at across the room is heaven's work. If your cause has nullified your ability to see that stepping back is a must for self-assessment and adjustment. I did the same thing last year. I've been focused on building a business and growing very fast. But I noticed a change within me as well. I was a little sharper and a steely in ways I found disagreeable with my constitution.

I resolved it by turning to the Word and embracing humility in a new light. The greater my growth the lower I must become. Not because I'm unimportant. But I don't want success at the price of a pleasant disposition. That's helped me a great deal and I'm nearly where I was before.

There is another thing to keep in mind. If you want peace you can't yield a blade. When you take up the sword only one option exists. The battle will weary you over time and it will harden your heart in ways you can't imagine. Address your adversary in prayer instead. You can do more damage in the heavenly than wielding a bullhorn.

Pray against the spirit of Hatred, Anger, Bitterness, and Rejection. They are the rulers inciting all of this. Pray for peace, love, tenderness and joy for yourself. Just trust me on this. I think this was a word meant for you.

There are no appropriate roles for ALL women and for ALL men. That's an offensive idea for both because it assumes that God created all women the same and created all men the same rather than as the unique individual people we all are. We are not stereotypes.

There is great diversity in God's Kingdom. I make a better socialite than social justice warrior. ;-)

I would love to not have to continue to defend women and feminism because I'm not really all that interested in the subject to be fully honest, but since it directly affects me and other people that I love and my neighbors here and all around the world who we are commanded to love, and I see what happens to women in many parts of the world and even here in many places in the U.S. when inequity and injustice exist, I don't have the privilege to ignore it.

I'm just reaching this portion and smiling quietly to myself. I am going to write what I intended to say above but I took it out. Ask the Lord for your assignment. I sensed this wasn't it. I don't know why but I could tell as I replied that it was meant for your ears.

The battle is the Lord's. You can stop. If you'd bring Him into this you may find better ways to address the issue that will add to your beauty without diminishing it. Loveliness is a wondrous thing when we don't impede its expression.

Next time you're in front of a mirror, take a moment and smile. Don't do anything else. Observe the way everything changes when you do. Notice your eyes and mouth. And the way your body relaxes and opens up.

Our warfare is different. And unless He calls us into battle we must be careful not to enter it without His covering. Remember Josiah.

Your response may be very different than you imagine. But if you lay down your sword and seek the Lord on this issue the frustration you feel will abate and peace will come in its place.

God Bless. :)
 
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Zoii

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As a teen feminist my (and my friend's ) concerns are:
  • the appalling levels of violence of men towards women
  • domestic assaults
  • rape
  • paedophilia
In countries such as Pakistan or Saudi Arabia women face
  • honour killings
  • child brides
  • and significantly poorer access to legal rights.
This thread has been wonderful to get insights into just how Christian men are.
For daring to advocate for the topics above, I've been called a man-hater (despite not uttering anything about hating men), been called a lesbian, ant-Christian, told I shouldn't be allowed to vote, told I should be allowed to work, told I'm the cause of marriage break-ups, told its all women's fault that the men were violent or raping, told that feminism is the cause of paedophilia.

Now I admire that you all don't allow facts to ruin your rants. Each of your points was never based on any data from any reliable source. What it has exposed though is just how spineless the men on this site can be. Rather than acknowledging, for example, that yes, there is too high a sexual assault incidence by men towards boys and women, and we men need to stand up and have some spine and raise our male youth better , and raise our daughters to be safe in their choices.....no instead all Ive heard is the sound of spineless weasels.

Its been valuable to collate your comments for our campus publication to show how Christian men think. By all means, carry on with your misogyny and your incapacity to face what is decent and right.
 
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bekkilyn

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Thank you for quoting the post. I'm glad you liked it. :)

Shiloh is unique. I couldn't make that comment to many people. But I posted it to provide a different perspective. I've shared my background with her and she's willing to listen.

I have not been exposed to feminism. I was reared in a different environment. Ladyship and deportment were paramount. My family was fastidious about place and conduct. I am not addressing place in relation to gender. They wanted me to succeed. But gains at the expense of etiquette and breeding were unfathomable to them. That isn't a treaty against success but an understanding that the way we scale is equally important.

The bible tells us that a gentle answer turns away wrath. It is a reminder that you will rarely influence someone or sway them towards your cause through anger or yelling. You don't have to raise your voice to yell. It's in your countenance. Have you ever been approached by someone selling something. You didn't need it but their personality and conduct swayed you and you said okay, give me one?

Women were knit with an ability to assuage the horrors and hardships society is facing. But the people you're addressing will not be won by jockeying or any form masculinity. I support eloquence and an intelligent delivery. But doing it as one of the boys rarely works.

I have found in my interactions with the opposite sex that God's wisdom is true. I have never experienced racism or sexism. Not because I'm special or fortunate. I think it's largely due to the experiences and values that were impressed on me at a young age. Foundational truths that I passed on to my daughter. Her experiences echo mine.



I am a woman of color. I've dated interracially for over 20 years. I was a single parent. I had a successful career in wealth management. I retired in my mid-30's. My accomplishments were not the result of a trust fund. I am the beneficiary of much favor from men and women. And most of them were Caucasian.

I have never been a fan of labels for this reason. Oftentimes people negate their divinity for the philosophy of their cause. God said I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. I don't need to add anything to that. And I think there would be greater progress if both sides treated each other with more courtesy in their dialogues. It's become too negative and both are culpable.

I believe a better approach to the subject would be to start and end with God in mind. Jesus didn't trade barbs when he dealt with His accusers or scoffers. And the beauty that is uniquely woman is sullied when we do the same. If you understood the power you possessed you'd never raise your voice. If you realized how deeply you can soothe a man's woundedness you'd speak his language.

And if you grasped his inherent need to protect and provide (if he's healthy), you'd know that it's more than money and control at stake. That's innate for him as well. The challenge is discovering how we can support each other in light of our dreams and interests. Not split hairs.

The person you're yelling at across the room is heaven's work. If your cause has nullified your ability to see that stepping back is a must for self-assessment and adjustment. I did the same thing last year. I've been focused on building a business and growing very fast. But I noticed a change within me as well. I was a little sharper and a steely in ways I found disagreeable with my constitution.

I resolved it by turning to the Word and embracing humility in a new light. The greater my growth the lower I must become. Not because I'm unimportant. But I don't want success at the price of a pleasant disposition. That's helped me a great deal and I'm nearly where I was before.

There is another thing to keep in mind. If you want peace you can't yield a blade. When you take up the sword only one option exists. The battle will weary you over time and it will harden your heart in ways you can't imagine. Address your adversary in prayer instead. You can do more damage in the heavenly than wielding a bullhorn.

Pray against the spirit of Hatred, Anger, Bitterness, and Rejection. They are the rulers inciting all of this. Pray for peace, love, tenderness and joy for yourself. Just trust me on this. I think this was a word meant for you.



There is great diversity in God's Kingdom. I make a better socialite than social justice warrior. ;-)



I'm just reaching this portion and smiling quietly to myself. I am going to write what I intended to say above but I took it out. Ask the Lord for your assignment. I sensed this wasn't it. I don't know why but I could tell as I replied that it was meant for your ears.

The battle is the Lord's. You can stop. If you'd bring Him into this you may find better ways to address the issue that will add to your beauty without diminishing it. Loveliness is a wondrous thing when we don't impede its expression.

Next time you're in front of a mirror, take a moment and smile. Don't do anything else. Observe the way everything changes when you do. Notice your eyes and mouth. And the way your body relaxes and opens up.

Our warfare is different. And unless He calls us into battle we must be careful not to enter it without His covering. Remember Josiah.

Your response may be very different than you imagine. But if you lay down your sword and seek the Lord on this issue the frustration you feel will abate and peace will come in its place.

God Bless. :)

That's the thing. When the Lord sends you into battle, you go. Whether you wish to be in it or not. He didn't put us here on this earth for our comfort, but to do work for him as ambassadors of his Kingdom, and sometimes that work requires us to speak out or even act against the injustices that harm the people he loves. Not in bitterness and (unrighteous) anger, I agree. If you think that, then you misunderstand. We can still have peace and joy in our hearts and yet continue to fight, for "for our struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places (Ephesians 6:12).

Satan wants to keep us comfortable, tell us that it doesn't matter, that someone else will do it instead, that keeping the peace is what's important, etc. but he is a liar and not to be trusted.

You are indeed very fortunate if you have not personally experienced sexism or racism. Many people experience it simply by having the audacity to walk down the street, keeping to their own business, or riding on public transportation or any number of normal day to day activities that do nothing to invite the harassment. Not to mention that expressions of both are all over CF practically every day.

While Christians should be the first to stand against the oppression of others since we are commanded to love each other as Christ loves us, Christians tend to be known by unbelievers for the exact opposite. Anti-Christ behavior. They definitely do NOT know us for our love and that's no way to make disciples for Jesus Christ.
 
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mindlight

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As a teen feminist my (and my friend's ) concerns are:
  • the appalling levels of violence of men towards women
  • domestic assaults
  • rape
  • paedophilia
No man here has advocated any of these things. There is evidence that has been shared that in the Western world at least these things are in decline rather than on the rise (e.g. American rape statistics shared earlier). German statistics seem to be about one third of the level of Australia so maybe the issues seem more pressing over there than here. Here feminism gone bad is a more pressing issue with godless, childless and man independent women causing major long term damage to the social fabric.
In countries such as Pakistan or Saudi Arabia women face
  • honour killings
  • child brides
  • and significantly poorer access to legal rights.
Who here has approved any of those things?
This thread has been wonderful to get insights into just how Christian men are.
For daring to advocate for the topics above, I've been called a man-hater (despite not uttering anything about hating men), been called a lesbian, ant-Christian, told I shouldn't be allowed to vote, told I should be allowed to work, told I'm the cause of marriage break-ups, told its all women's fault that the men were violent or raping, told that feminism is the cause of paedophilia.

Now I admire that you all don't allow facts to ruin your rants. Each of your points was never based on any data from any reliable source. What it has exposed though is just how spineless the men on this site can be. Rather than acknowledging, for example, that yes, there is too high a sexual assault incidence by men towards boys and women, and we men need to stand up and have some spine and raise our male youth better , and raise our daughters to be safe in their choices.....no instead all Ive heard is the sound of spineless weasels.

Its been valuable to collate your comments for our campus publication to show how Christian men think. By all means, carry on with your misogyny and your incapacity to face what is decent and right.

It is possible to read, with rose coloured glasses ,according to your ones own ideological presuppositions. To take the finger pointed at feminism and shove it into ones own face as if it were directed personally. But hey do not let facts cloud ones judgment.

Why violent crime is plummeting in the rich world

Rape statistics - Wikipedia
 
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bekkilyn

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Here feminism gone bad is a more pressing issue with godless, childless and man independent women causing major long term damage to the social fabric.

What nonsense.

Where is it stated in scripture that God calls every single human being into marriage and parenthood?

Many people, male and female alike, are Godless because they have a lot of difficulty seeing God reflected in the people who claim to serve him and sadly wash their hands of the whole deal.
 
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Phil.Stein

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So that I know exactly what your viewpoint is: What roles do you see as reserved for men?
In reality, probably only authority positions (e.g. government) and positions within the armed forces. If a woman really wants to sacrifice her child-bearing years to pursue a career in the private sector, I don't believe this is prohibited by scripture (other than being a pathway opposite to that encouraged for females). However, such a choice should not be subsidised by the government (directly or indirectly), as this makes what would normally be an uneconomical or unpalattable decision for most more favourable, at the expense of the traditional family.
 
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bèlla

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That's the thing. When the Lord sends you into battle, you go. Whether you wish to be in it or not.

The Lord equips us before sending us to war. And every war is different. The strategies and preparation you need to deal with abortion differs from feminism. If you are conversant in spiritual warfare you'll know this is true. It's not the same spirit at work and some are more powerful than others.

Satan wants to keep us comfortable, tell us that it doesn't matter, that someone else will do it instead, that keeping the peace is what's important, etc. but he is a liar and not to be trusted.

I don't know about you. But I don't see Christ when I hear feminists speak. And many are quick to attack other women who disagree. I don't find that behavior attractive in anyone. Irrespective of their cause. You can't force your opinion down someone's throat.

You are indeed very fortunate if you have not personally experienced sexism or racism. Many people experience it simply by having the audacity to walk down the street, keeping to their own business, or riding on public transportation or any number of normal day to day activities that do nothing to invite the harassment. Not to mention that expressions of both are all over CF practically every day.

I can't speak for others but I enjoy my outings. I smile and greet the people I encounter. I exchange pleasantries with familiar faces. I am treated warmly at my grocer, convenience store, and coffee shop. The common denominator in all of this is kindness. I leave positive seeds wherever I go. And I don't shop in the evening. That plays a part. People are more polite in the daytime when most customers are at work.

While Christians should be the first to stand against the oppression of others since we are commanded to love each other as Christ loves us, Christians tend to be known by unbelievers for the exact opposite. Anti-Christ behavior. They definitely do NOT know us for our love and that's no way to make disciples for Jesus Christ.

I expressed something similar today in my quiet time. Christians talk to one another. They don't talk with each other. There's a striking difference. That's why we're often accused of preaching.

The absence of joy and happiness are things I require in my relationships. I don't need a constant expression of them but their absence is too much to sacrifice. I don't believe you can have either if you immerse yourself in negative subjects and they comprise the whole of your conversation. Balance is required.

I'm in a Christian business group. The same holds true. We commiserate over the strangest subjects. If I want something uplifting I have to look in secular sources. That's unfortunate.

When I recollect the times I've laughed until my side hurt or reminisce enjoyable moments in life I was in different company. When I reflect on painful moments and the horrors I've experienced. The faces I see standing with me aren't Christians. They were people who didn't know the Lord but they knew how to love. We were united by love. I've never had that kind of fellowship or bond with a believer. I don't know if I ever will.
 
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bekkilyn

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The Lord equips us before sending us to war. And every war is different.

Yes, he does, and we are to put on our full armor of God every single day.

The strategies and preparation you need to deal with abortion differs from feminism. If you are conversant in spiritual warfare you'll know this is true. It's not the same spirit at work and some are more powerful than others.

However, you must understand that whichever spirits are involved in any given thing, God has ultimately already won the war. We already have freedom and victory in Christ. However, Satan will continue to create obstacles to Christians and even through the institutionalized church or other Christians who may be focused more on legalism and the law vs. grace.

I don't know about you. But I don't see Christ when I hear feminists speak. And many are quick to attack other women who disagree. I don't find that behavior attractive in anyone. Irrespective of their cause. You can't force your opinion down someone's throat.

That's because you seem to have a very narrow view of feminism. Feminists *are* housewives and mothers just as much as feminists are CEO's and civil engineers and every other thing. It's not about power grabs, or exchanging male dominance for female dominance, but instead creating balance instead of inequity.

I can't speak for others but I enjoy my outings. I smile and greet the people I encounter. I exchange pleasantries with familiar faces. I am treated warmly at my grocer, convenience store, and coffee shop. The common denominator in all of this is kindness. I leave positive seeds wherever I go. And I don't shop in the evening. That plays a part. People are more polite in the daytime when most customers are at work.

Yes, most of us do enjoy our outings and are friendly with other people. That's part of normal everyday life and kindness *should* be part of the life of a follower of Christ, and that includes males as well as females, as any other aspect of the fruit of the Spirit. But just because much of everyday life doesn't take place on the battlefield, so to speak, it doesn't mean that many women (and men) aren't regularly experiencing severe injustice in their lives.

I have an online friend from a South American country and he won't walk down the street with any visible electronic device because of a very real threat of being robbed, perhaps even violently. It's not something I typically need to worry about where I live and I feel very grateful and fortunate to not have that threat looming over me should I need to use my phone in a public area.

If you go around smiling to people in some areas of the U.S. (or some other places in the world) they will view it as you propositioning them, and then if you get assaulted, raped, or killed, then the view is that you shouldn't have been making such advances and "leading them on" even though of course you weren't. What you believe is just being polite, others will see as a green light. Again you are very fortunate if you never experience such things.

I expressed something similar today in my quiet time. Christians talk to one another. They don't talk with each other. There's a striking difference. That's why we're often accused of preaching.

There is a big difference when talking to each other in person vs. online. Online, all we really have are words, and those can easily be misunderstood or misinterpreted when we cannot see body language or facial expressions.

The absence of joy and happiness are things I require in my relationships. I don't need a constant expression of them but their absence is too much to sacrifice. I don't believe you can have either if you immerse yourself in negative subjects and they comprise the whole of your conversation. Balance is required.

I think you meant presence of joy and happiness?

Here on CF, it may seem that we are immersed in certain subjects, but I suspect that most people's time here is very minimal compared to our lives offline. Most people are not spending the vast majority of their day immersed in any of these subjects, but it may seem that way if here is the only place we come across each other.

I'm in a Christian business group. The same holds true. We commiserate over the strangest subjects. If I want something uplifting I have to look in secular sources. That's unfortunate.

Maybe you need to try some other Christian groups. Not that you have to leave the one you're in if you are still getting something you need from it business-wise, but every group is going to be different and there are plenty out there that do not focus on negative things. While we do need to address the negatives at times, particularly when injustices are being committed, we also need our safe spaces and places we can go and people we can be with to rejuvenate.

When I recollect the times I've laughed until my side hurt or reminisce enjoyable moments in life I was in different company. When I reflect on painful moments and the horrors I've experienced. The faces I see standing with me aren't Christians. They were people who didn't know the Lord but they knew how to love. We were united by love. I've never had that kind of fellowship or bond with a believer. I don't know if I ever will.

Even here on the internet, many atheists are more Christ-like in their attitudes than many Christians. Many Christians are exclusive and focused on fear, judgment, and condemnation vs. grace, love, and the fruit of the Spirit. Unfortunately, many are the most vocal and they are the ones that the unbelievers tend to regularly hear from.

That's not to say that there aren't believers out there who would laugh with you or stand with you during times of trial. There ARE many loving Christians around who are quietly going about God's work and reflecting his character within them so that people can see the love and abundant life of Christ through them.

Don't limit yourself to experiencing only one Christian group or even one church. While you might have a home church that you go to every Sunday morning, nothing need keep you from going to other churches for events or evening services or bible studies. Go to conservative churches. Go to liberal churches. Visit different denominations and non-denominations and you will find fellowship in some of the oddest places. You don't have to agree with them about everything or their doctrines, but go with the understanding that despite those differences, we are still brothers and sisters in Christ. No one is going to 100% get everything as only God himself is perfect.

But nothing wrong with keeping good secular friends too. It is not good for us to isolate ourselves only within a "church bubble". We are also commissioned to be out in the world making disciples and showing Christ's grace to everyone.
 
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bèlla

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That's because you seem to have a very narrow view of feminism. Feminists *are* housewives and mothers just as much as feminists are CEO's and civil engineers and every other thing. It's not about power grabs, or exchanging male dominance for female dominance, but instead creating balance instead of inequity.

I can't align myself with a philosophy whose proponents behave as they do. I acknowledge there are challenges but I can't abide the behavior I've seen. That isn't solely related to this topic. I don't believe the ends justify the means people are taking. But that's my personal perspective. Others may disagree.

If you go around smiling to people in some areas of the U.S. (or some other places in the world) they will view it as you propositioning them, and then if you get assaulted, raped, or killed, then the view is that you shouldn't have been making such advances and "leading them on" even though of course you weren't. What you believe is just being polite, others will see as a green light. Again you are very fortunate if you never experience such things.

I live in a shopping district and we get a lot of tourists. It's a friendly area but as you mentioned that could be interpreted differently elsewhere.

Maybe you need to try some other Christian groups. Not that you have to leave the one you're in if you are still getting something you need from it business-wise, but every group is going to be different and there are plenty out there that do not focus on negative things. While we do need to address the negatives at times, particularly when injustices are being committed, we also need our safe spaces and places we can go and people we can be with to rejuvenate.

I've joined some secular groups. My mindset is also the result of my life season as well. I don't have the same stresses or responsibilities. My plate is empty and the lone concern I have is my calling.

Even here on the internet, many atheists are more Christ-like in their attitudes than many Christians. Many Christians are exclusive and focused on fear, judgment, and condemnation vs. grace, love, and the fruit of the Spirit. Unfortunately, many are the most vocal and they are the ones that the unbelievers tend to regularly hear from.

That's true. I've been on secular forums. This is the first Christian one I've participated in.

That's not to say that there aren't believers out there who would laugh with you or stand with you during times of trial. There ARE many loving Christians around who are quietly going about God's work and reflecting his character within them so that people can see the love and abundant life of Christ through them.

Character won me over. I didn't hear the gospel at all. Love was the balm.

You don't have to agree with them about everything or their doctrines, but go with the understanding that despite those differences, we are still brothers and sisters in Christ. No one is going to 100% get everything as only God himself is perfect.

I've been to several. I've been contemplating going to the minyan for its weekly meeting. And I haven't been to Shabbat services in a while. They were very inspiring. I always enjoyed myself.

But nothing wrong with keeping good secular friends too. It is not good for us to isolate ourselves only within a "church bubble". We are also commissioned to be out in the world making disciples and showing Christ's grace to everyone.

It's more probable that I'll meet secular people with similar interests. Because the connections are formed for those reasons. Many of the women I've encountered are married and have families. I'm beyond that point. Developing friendships with digital nomads, singles, and child-free people will provide the diversity I lack.
 
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PloverWing

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In reality, probably only authority positions (e.g. government) and positions within the armed forces. If a woman really wants to sacrifice her child-bearing years to pursue a career in the private sector, I don't believe this is prohibited by scripture (other than being a pathway opposite to that encouraged for females). However, such a choice should not be subsidised by the government (directly or indirectly), as this makes what would normally be an uneconomical or unpalattable decision for most more favourable, at the expense of the traditional family.
An interesting point of view. I want to ask some questions about the details. Does your prohibition on the career being "subsidised by the government" mean that you exclude women from all jobs that carry a government salary? And, do you forbid all authority positions?

I assume you would forbid a woman to be governor. Probably, you would permit a woman to be a mother, even though that is a role in which she has authority over her children. What about these jobs:

- Is a woman permitted to be a postal worker, delivering the mail? Not an authority position, but it does draw a government salary.

- Is a woman permitted to be a kindergarten teacher in a public school? Government salary, and authority.

- Is a woman permitted to be a professor at a state university? Government salary, and authority.

- How about a professor at a women's college? Private sector now, so no government salary; and authority, but only over women.

- To explore the boundary of "armed forces": Is a woman allowed to be a mathematician for the NSA, or a software developer for a defense contractor? Salary is coming directly or indirectly from the government, but there's not much authority, and while it's defense-related work, it's not actually in the armed forces.

I've encountered a few other Christians who prohibit women from holding positions of authority, but the specifics vary from one author to another, so I'm inquiring about your particular views. I'll admit that the government aspect is a new idea to me, hence the questions about salaried positions.
 
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Zoii

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German statistics seem to be about one third of the level of Australia so maybe the issues seem more pressing over there than here.

You show ignorance of issues in your own country. Sexual assault rates have increased year on year over the last decade in Germany. Currently, it runs at currently at 9.1 per 100K. Convictions have fallen from 20% in 1980 to just 8% now. Similar prevalences exist for paedophilia and domestic violence in Germany.
Rape in Germany - Wikipedia
Not that there isn't perspective on all this - Germany and Australia are great places to live.

Its the manner in which you try to deflect issues and make statements based on ZERO data/evidence.
That you would try to diminish the issue by saying its not much of an issue in your country, is not only ignorant but displays an abominable attempt to say'Hey look over there - yeah - feminism - nothing to see here with our rapes or domestic murders'.

That little trick you tried to pull, will not release you from the failure to stand up for what's right. Women have every reason to be concerned for the topic I raised - Rape, violence, domestic assaults, paedophilia, and access to vocations.

Instead, you want to hide behind the skirts of feminists and say everything is their fault. But its a transparent failure.
 
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Phil.Stein

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An interesting point of view. I want to ask some questions about the details. Does your prohibition on the career being "subsidised by the government" mean that you exclude women from all jobs that carry a government salary? And, do you forbid all authority positions?

I assume you would forbid a woman to be governor. Probably, you would permit a woman to be a mother, even though that is a role in which she has authority over her children. What about these jobs:

- Is a woman permitted to be a postal worker, delivering the mail? Not an authority position, but it does draw a government salary.

- Is a woman permitted to be a kindergarten teacher in a public school? Government salary, and authority.

- Is a woman permitted to be a professor at a state university? Government salary, and authority.

- How about a professor at a women's college? Private sector now, so no government salary; and authority, but only over women.

- To explore the boundary of "armed forces": Is a woman allowed to be a mathematician for the NSA, or a software developer for a defense contractor? Salary is coming directly or indirectly from the government, but there's not much authority, and while it's defense-related work, it's not actually in the armed forces.

I've encountered a few other Christians who prohibit women from holding positions of authority, but the specifics vary from one author to another, so I'm inquiring about your particular views. I'll admit that the government aspect is a new idea to me, hence the questions about salaried positions.
I'm not going to get bogged down in legalism. Deborah judged Israel in the Old Testament, so while not technically a leadership position, it was quite an important one. God called her to the role, and He gave her what she needed to be successful in it. This was before any of the modern day nonsense of toxic feminism.

If a woman has a desire to purse a particular path, and this aligns with the will of God, I don't think anything would stop her, irrespective of the presence of toxic feminism. However, toxic feminism has pushed many women - who would prefer to be wives and mothers - into the workforce, in addition to impoverishing men (who physically can't bear children for their wives, even if they desired to), and caused all manner of other societal ills (infidelity, abortion, homosexuality, poverty, divorce, suicide, fatherless children etc. etc.), as previously mentioned. Western culture would have been better off without it.
 
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