Is God able to change a person's will?

setst777 said:

The Gospel is the word about Christ. We learn of Christ Jesus and His redemption through the Gospel message.

Click to expand...

Is not His Gospel of the Kingdom what He said He came to teach and fulfill? Why skip over it?

Phoebe Ann said:

I was following a gospel; the one taught by Joseph Smith.

So just hearing the message doesn't mean everyone has ears to hear.

The lost aren't humble; humility comes from God.

Click to expand...

According to God's Word, God commands us to humble ourselves, and is with those who humble themselves. I gave you the Scriptures numerous times, and you are, in essence, saying, "I just can't believe in God's word." The question is, will you believe God's Word?

The humble will listen:

1 Peter 5:5-6 (NIV) Bolding mine… All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.”

Psalm 25 (WEB) Bolding mine… 9 He will guide the humble in justice. He will teach the humble his way.

Psalm 18 (NIV) Bolding mine… 27 You save the humble but bring low those whose eyes are haughty.

Psalm 147 (WEB) 6 Yahweh upholds the humble. He brings the wicked down to the ground.

2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

Micah 6:8
He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you,

Matthew 23:12
Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

James 4:10
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.

Luke 18:13-14
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

timothyu said:

Is not His Gospel of the Kingdom what He said He came to teach and fulfill? Why skip over it?

Click to expand...

Yes, and that is why the New Testament was written.

Romans 10:17 (NIV)
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

setst777 said:

Yes, and that is why the New Testament was written.

Click to expand...

My point is Romans says word about Christ. We also have the Word OF Christ first hand. Why not focus on that instead? Could not the institution have built itself on that instead? Or would teaching of a Kingdom contrary to the world of man have convicted them for rejoining the world of man?

timothyu said:

My point is Romans says word about Christ. We also have the Word OF Christ first hand. Why not focus on that instead? Could not the institution have built itself on that instead? Or would teaching of a Kingdom contrary to the world of man have convicted them for rejoining the world of man?

Click to expand...

Okay, I think I understand what you are questioning, but let me make sure.

Do you believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God? All of it?

I believe the whole Bible is a written record about Christ Jesus, even the Old Testament. In the New Testament, we learn that "The Word" came into the world to save men, by becoming our sacrifice, and then rose from the dead to prove His claim and establish His covenant with those who would believe.

We have some (the most essential) of Jesus' words are recorded in the New Testament, and we have the words of His inspired Apostles. If we really believe everything Jesus stated (of Christ), then we must believe also that Jesus sent His Apostles to boldly proclaim what Christ revealed to them, because we know that Lord Jesus deliberately kept the secret things of God about himself and the Gospel hidden from the general public in riddles and parables...

Once Christ’s earthly mission was complete, the secrecy of His mission was over. Now Lord Jesus commanded His disciples to boldly and openly proclaim His identity, and the fullness of the Gospel, to every creature (Matthew 10:27; Colossians 1:23) that was deliberately hidden during His ministry. Now everyone in the world may have an opportunity to plainly hear the Gospel in all its fullness and be saved.

Christ was diligent to fulfill prophecy by hiding the Gospel, and who he was, from the Jews in riddles and parables (Matthew 13:10-13) in judgment for their callous hearts toward God and His grace (Mark 4:10-12, John 12:37-40)

And Jesus said He sent His Spirit to be with His Apostles to remind them of everything they learned and to teach them.

So, if we believe Jesus words, then we must believe the one's Christ Jesus sent to found the Church - the Apostles.

However, I do not see anything in the Epistles that disagree with what Jesus Christ himself revealed about Himself and the Gospel - not one thing.

setst777 said:

because we know that Lord Jesus deliberately kept the secret things of God about himself and the Gospel hidden from the general public in riddles and parables...

Click to expand...

But they were explained in scripture none the less were they not?

Yes and the word says..what so ever you desire when you pray.. believe you receive it and you shall have it. And no God will NEVER go against mans will. For GOD so loved the world.. everyone gets a choice.

timothyu said:

But they were explained in scripture none the less were they not?

Click to expand...

Yes, they were explained, most of the time, by the Apostles writing about what Jesus taught, and the Apostles completely revealed and clearly explained what Jesus taught in their Epistles. That is why the Gospel is certainly of Christ, but the written revelation we have about the Gospel in the New Testament is the word about Christ.

Phoebe Ann said:

I absolutely believe God's word. I do NOT believe your faulty interpretation of His Word.

Click to expand...

setst777 said: ↑
According to God's Word, God commands us to humble ourselves, and is with those who humble themselves. I gave you the Scriptures numerous times, and you are, in essence, saying, "I just can't believe in God's word." The question is, will you believe God's Word?

Phoebe Ann responded:
I absolutely believe God's word. I do NOT believe your faulty interpretation of His Word.

My response:
I never interpreted the words given, I just copied them directly from the Bible. All the Passages in the Bible state we must humble ourselves as God commands us to do.

setst777 said: ↑
The humble will listen:

Psalms 25:9 (WEB) Bolding mine… 9 He will guide the humble in justice. He will teach the humble his way.

Psalms 18:27 (NIV) Bolding mine… 27 You save the humble but bring low those whose eyes are haughty.

Psalms 147:6 (WEB) 6 Yahweh upholds the humble. He brings the wicked down to the ground.

Luke 18:13-14
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
Click to expand...

Phoebe Ann responds:
If my people... His people are those He has saved and made new creatures! Who listens? The ones whose ears He has opened! IOW, His sheep!

My reply
The new creation by the indwelling Spirit is a covenant of the New Testament, not the Old Testament.

And the new creation in Christ is only given by faith.

John 7:37-39 (NIV) Bolding mine
37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

So which comes first: Humility or Faith?

• Is it not those who humble themselves first that will then believe the word?
• Is it not only those who believe that receive the Holy Spirit?

Phoebe Ann wrote:
The regeneration by the Holy Spirit gives sinners the new birth.

My reply: Yes, I agree.

The new birth, being born of God, is by the indwelling Spirit - Christ in you.

Romans 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

That is why you are only Born of God by faith: John 1:13-14

Only by an obedient faith does the Spirit indwell us...

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things,
and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

How would you answer the above question?

Galatians 3:5 So again I ask,
does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

How would you answer the above question?

Galatians 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promised Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit. 14 The Holy Spirit is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession — to the praise of his glory.

Acts 2:38
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, after you believe, and if your faith is genuine – accompanied by repentance – then you receive the Holy Spirit to mark you for salvation and to work with your faith to renew your nature, making you alive spiritually, but only as you live by the Spirit – your faith and the Spirit working together.

Romans 8:12-13 (NIV)
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Phoebe Ann said:

Romans 3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Without the Spirit, no one will turn to God. The natural man can't understand spiritual truths.

Click to expand...

God calls or woos all ... one decides at some point ... to receive Him... or not. If one does receive Him, sincerely repents and invites Him in ... He will then begin changing the heart and mind of that person through the Holy Spirit along with His Word over the course of their lives. It is then when a person begins understanding spiritual truths. So yes, understanding spiritual truth comes through the Holy Spirit ... wasn't implying otherwise.

Revelation 3

20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with Me.

Phoebe Ann said:

The person who desires his own will is under Satan's power. He doesn't see a reason to ask Jesus anything and what Jesus says makes no sense to him.



How can he turn to God? His desire is to sin.

Romans 8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

John 10
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.



How will an unbeliever find faith if he doesn't understand spiritual things?

Click to expand...

When they repent and invite Jesus into their lives ... then through His Holy Spirit and through His Word the changing of the heart and mind begins and the understanding of of spiritual things over time.

I was a unbeliever until when? Until I asked Jesus to come into my life repented and to asked Him to change me. Then I was forgiven and was given a heart and mind to seek/learn about God ... and this happens through the Holy Spirit and His Word.

Praying for unbelievers (all people) to come to the Lord

1 Timothy 2:1-4

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Pray even for our enemies.

Luke 6:27-30

27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.

eleos1954 said:

God calls or woos all ... one decides at some point ... to receive Him... or not. If one does receive Him, sincerely repents and invites Him in ... He will then begin changing the heart and mind of that person through the Holy Spirit along with His Word over the course of their lives. It is then when a person begins understanding spiritual truths. So yes, understanding spiritual truth comes through the Holy Spirit ... wasn't implying otherwise.

Revelation 3

20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with Me.

Click to expand...

Free Will theology has it backwards. Where is this wooing in scripture? Where is this idea of inviting Christ into our hearts in scripture? The Spirit of God through the hearing of the Word gives life to those the Father has given Christ. John 6:37. Ezekiel 36:25-27. Faith in Christ is the result of regeneration. Not the cause. God commands sinners to repent and flee to Christ for mercy and forgiveness! Not begging sinners to invite Him in. Free Will theology is the religion of fallen man that cannot submit to the Sovereign God of scriptures

setst777 said:

but the written revelation we have about the Gospel in the New Testament is the word about Christ.

Click to expand...

Hi setst777. Would there have been a need for the King without the Kingdom. I understand the word about the Messiah but there seems to be an amazing lack of Kingdom represented considering how He said there should be word about the Kingdom of God which mankind still rejects to this day. He said that it was His Gospel, not Himself.
'thy Kingdom come Thy will be done in earth' is not way off in the future but now yet people pretend otherwise in order to avoid change in their ways or no longer supporting those who seek gain at the expense of others. The evening news to them is the equivalent of a sports event, taking sides among man rather than siding with Kingdom against the world of man (the word Jesus taught).

Setting man against man was not about internal struggles, yet we hear little if anything of the separation of world of man and the Kingdom which His sword segregated, the reason He said He came to give us choice over now, not as an option upon death. Too much Messenger, too little message IMO.

MDC said:

Free Will theology has it backwards. Where is this wooing in scripture? Where is this idea of inviting Christ into our hearts in scripture? The Spirit of God through the hearing of the Word gives life to those the Father has given Christ. John 6:37. Ezekiel 36:25-27. Faith in Christ is the result of regeneration. Not the cause. God commands sinners to repent and flee to Christ for mercy and forgiveness! Not begging sinners to invite Him in. Free Will theology is the religion of fallen man that cannot submit to the Sovereign God of scriptures

Click to expand...

John 6

44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day

John 12

32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”


Job 36:16

"He is wooing you from the jaws of distress to a spacious place free from restriction, to the comfort of your table laden with choice food.

Some translations use the word wooing for the drawing.

Not begging sinners to invite Him in. - These are your words and does not at all describe the drawing nor does it suggest begging.

John 6

44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day


John 12

32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”


Job 36:16 - NIV,

"He is wooing you from the jaws of distress to a spacious place free from restriction, to the comfort of your table laden with choice food.

Some translations use wooing for the drawing.

God, in His love, seeks us out Luke 19:10; John 3:16; 1 John 4:9-10. But how should we understand the word draw as it is used in John 6:44? The range of meaning for the word elkuo includes to draw, pull, or attract. It is found five times in the New Testament, four of those in John. Though the literal uses in John and Acts clearly mean drag or pull John 18:10; John 21:6; Acts 16:19) the two figurative uses in John 6:44 and 12:32 are better understood as attract.

The object is not to change wills but to have no will.

Phoebe Ann said:

Do humans possess desires? Can a person who desires his own will instead of God's be changed by God? If he can't be changed why was he made that way? Do you pray for unbelievers?

Click to expand...

Every sinner that gets saved as the lord Himself working on and thru them to have a change of will gheir sinfulness, their need for, and their receiving of Jesus Christ as Lord...

eleos1954 said:

John 6

44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day

John 12

32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”


Job 36:16

"He is wooing you from the jaws of distress to a spacious place free from restriction, to the comfort of your table laden with choice food.

Some translations use the word wooing for the drawing.

Not begging sinners to invite Him in. - These are your words and does not at all describe the drawing nor does it suggest begging.

John 6

44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day


John 12

32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”


Job 36:16 - NIV,

"He is wooing you from the jaws of distress to a spacious place free from restriction, to the comfort of your table laden with choice food.

Some translations use wooing for the drawing.

God, in His love, seeks us out Luke 19:10; John 3:16; 1 John 4:9-10. But how should we understand the word draw as it is used in John 6:44? The range of meaning for the word elkuo includes to draw, pull, or attract. It is found five times in the New Testament, four of those in John. Though the literal uses in John and Acts clearly mean drag or pull John 18:10; John 21:6; Acts 16:19) the two figurative uses in John 6:44 and 12:32 are better understood as attract.

Click to expand...

Gods drawing is always effectual and results in bringing about those coming to Christ in faith. John 6 is clearly saying this. Only the elect or Gods sheep are drawn and given to Christ by the Father. John 6:64-64. John 10: 26-28. God must change the disposition of the heart via regeneration for one to believe. This is the drawing of God alone by His Spirit. Therefore changing the will

Phoebe Ann said:

Do humans possess desires? Can a person who desires his own will instead of God's be changed by God? If he can't be changed why was he made that way? Do you pray for unbelievers?

Click to expand...

Off hand examples of changed wills-----Paul, Jonah, Jacob, thief on the cross, Mary Magdalene, even King Nebuchadnezzar.