Is a 3rd future Temple needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?

Erik Nelson · Jan 26, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
One of my larger studies concerns Jesus, the whip and chasing out the sellers/merchants in the Temple in John 2/
[I am going to start a thread on this soon. Just got some more refining on it to do]

Notice first this passage in Zech 14 concerning "canaanite":

Zechariah 14:
21 And every caldron in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be Holy unto Yahweh of hosts,—So shall all who are offering sacrifice, come in, and take of them, and boil therein,—
Neither shall there be a Canaanite/merchant<3669> any more in the House of Yahweh of hosts, in that day. [Revelation 18:11]

The reason there would never be another one is that House is because it would be decimated in 70ad!

Matthew 23
37 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
38 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate/a wilderness<2048>
Luke 13:
34 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
35 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate/a wilderness<2048>,
=============================
This is what was going on when Jesus entered the Temple shortly after starting His ministry?
Weren't these a type of "canaanite" Jesus was expelling from the Temple?

John 2: [Revelation 18:11]
14 and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting,
15 and having made a whip of small cords, He put all forth out of the temple, also the sheep, and the oxen;
and of the money-changers he poured out the coins, and the 15]he overthrew,
[Nahum 3:2/Reve 18:11-13]
================
If you look at Nahum 3, it also describes a "sound of a whip":

Nahum 3:2 [John 2:14-15]
A sound of a Whip, and sound of a quaking wheel, and horse galloping, and chariot leaping. A horseman mounting. And blazing sword, and flashing spear, and many wounded and mass of corpses and there is no end to bodies. [Isaiah 28 "scourge"]
==============
In Revelation, the word normally rendered "plague" should be rendered "stripes/blows":

Revelation 15:1
And I perceived another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Seven Messengers having seven blows/stripes<4127> the last,
that in them is finished the fury of the God.
====================
Now look at Revelation 18 concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.

Merchants, beasts and sheep are mentioned, just as in John 2:14!

In addition, most all the things mentioned in this passage were used in the OT Temple/Santuary services.

Revelation 18: [John 2:14]
11 And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over Her,
that no one is buying their cargo any longer.
13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense
and wine and oil and flour and grain
and beasts and sheep
and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.
[Nahum 3:2/John 2:14]

John 2: [Revelation 18:11]
14 and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting,

elsewhere you observed that Revelation only uses the word "sanctuary" not "temple"
doesn't it describe the "sanctuary" plus "court of the gentiles"? That would be the whole structure, according to Josephus "Wars" 5.5.2:

The cloisters [walled colonnades of the outmost court] were in breadth thirty cubits [45'], while the entire compass of it was by measure six furlongs [six stadia = 3600'], including the tower of Antonia; those entire courts that were exposed to the air were laid with stones of all sorts [exposed outer court paved with stone tiles?]. When you go through these [first] cloisters, unto [towards?] the second [court of the] temple, there was a partition made of stone all round, whose height was three cubits [4.5']: its construction was very elegant; upon it stood pillars, at equal distances from one another, declaring the law of purity, some in Greek, and some in Roman letters, that "no foreigner should go within that sanctuary" for that second [court of the] temple was called "the Sanctuary," and was ascended to by fourteen steps from the first court. This court was four-square, and had a wall about it peculiar to itself; the height of its buildings, although it were on the outside forty cubits, (13) was hidden by the steps, and on the inside that height was but twenty-five cubits; for it being built over against a higher part of the hill with steps, it was no further to be entirely discerned within, being covered by the hill itself.

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-5.htm

Erik Nelson · Jan 26, 2019

BABerean2 said:
The recent book "Temple" by Bob Cornuke contains details from leading Israeli archeologist Eli Shukron which reveal that the area known as "The Wailing Wall" cannot be a part of Herod's temple.

https://www.amazon.com/Temple-Revis...8417062&sr=1-1&keywords=Temple+Robert+Cornuke

Eli is the man who re-discoverd the Pool of Siloam.
He is a respected archeologist in Israel.

There are many now who know the truth.

However, there is a great deal of politics involved in this issue within modern Israel.

The only thing more powerful than scripture is tradition.

Each years thousands of Christians take a tour of Saint Catherine's Monastery and are told that they are at Mount Sinai.
However, based on Exodus 3:1, and Exodus 3:12, the mountain of God is in Midian.
Mose's father-in-law was a priest of Midian.
Based on Galatians 4:25, Mount Sinai is in Arabia.
Midian is on the west coast of modern Saudi Arabia, and lies to the east of the Red Sea.

.

The trapezoid area of the temple mount was 144,000 square meters - the size of about 20 football fields. Its wall lengths were 280m (south wall), 460 (east wall), 315 (north wall) and 485 (west wall). The mount was 10 stories high - its height above the street level was 30m with additional 20m underground, using heavy hewn boulders measuring between 2-5 tons (small size) to 10 tons and more.

Temple Mount

Now as to the tower of Antonia, it was situated at the corner of two cloisters of the court of the temple; of that on the west, and that on the north; it was erected upon a rock of fifty cubits in height [25m], and was on a great precipice; it was the work of king Herod, wherein he demonstrated his natural magnanimity. In the first place, the rock itself was covered over with smooth pieces of stone, from its foundation, both for ornament, and that any one who would either try to get up or to go down it might not be able to hold his feet upon it. (Josephus, Wars, 5.5.8)

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-5.htm

BABerean2 · Jan 26, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
The trapezoid area of the temple mount was 144,000 square meters - the size of about 20 football fields. Its wall lengths were 280m (south wall), 460 (east wall), 315 (north wall) and 485 (west wall). The mount was 10 stories high - its height above the street level was 30m with additional 20m underground, using heavy hewn boulders measuring between 2-5 tons (small size) to 10 tons and more.

Temple Mount

Now as to the tower of Antonia, it was situated at the corner of two cloisters of the court of the temple; of that on the west, and that on the north; it was erected upon a rock of fifty cubits in height [25m], and was on a great precipice; it was the work of king Herod, wherein he demonstrated his natural magnanimity. In the first place, the rock itself was covered over with smooth pieces of stone, from its foundation, both for ornament, and that any one who would either try to get up or to go down it might not be able to hold his feet upon it. (Josephus, Wars, 5.5.8)

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-5.htm

A Roman amphitheater was recently discovered underground at "The Wailing Wall".
It is at Wilson's Arch, which is believed by many to have once supported a bridge.
Josephus described a bridge which connected Fort Antonia to the Jewish temple.

All of this is more evidence that the area now known as "The Temple Mount" is actually the remains of Roman Fort Antonia.

If people would quit relying on tradition and accept the historical, and archeological evidence, this fact would become obvious.

.

Erik Nelson · Jan 26, 2019

BABerean2 said:
You can LOL at the words of Christ if you want to...

.

the presence of the foundations of a massive wall in this cistern, described by Warren, together with the cistern’s peculiar E-shape, suggest a design that would support a large building.

https://www.ritmeyer.com/2015/11/11/the-mysterious-akra-in-jerusalem/

They ID the "Temple Mount" as a fortress, attributing it to the Macedonians' Akra. But the large "E" shaped cistern in the SE corner of the "TM", which "would support a large building", is positioned in perfect agreement of Josephus' description of the Antonia fortress' largest 70 cubit tall SE tower (Wars, 5.5.8). A double passageway crosses over the top of the "E" shaped cistern within the SE tower, and heads out of the "Huldah Triple Gate"... straight towards the actual temple site... the "Huldah Double Gate" also probably paralleled its sibling to its east... plausibly, they were the two causeways described by Josephus reaching to the NW & N sides of the temple outer cloisters

Now as to the tower of Antonia... as the entire structure resembled that of a tower, it contained also four other distinct towers at its four corners; whereof the others were but fifty cubits high; whereas that which lay upon the southeast corner was seventy cubits high, that from thence the whole temple might be viewed

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-5.htm

Coincidentally, current excavations stop precisely in line with the Double Gate... if "Area G" were enlarged NE, it would uncover remains of the foundations of the cloisters connecting the Haram structure (Fort Antonia) to the Temple of Herod (or, if the Temple was farther north, the temple itself)

Erik Nelson · Jan 26, 2019

BABerean2 said:
A Roman amphitheater was recently discovered underground at "The Wailing Wall".
It is at Wilson's Arch, which is believed by many to have once supported a bridge.
Josephus described a bridge which connected Fort Antonia to the Jewish temple.

All of this is more evidence that the area now known as "The Temple Mount" is actually the remains of Roman Fort Antonia.

If people would quit relying on tradition and accept the historical, and archeological evidence, this fact would become obvious.

.

Huldah Gates - Wikipedia

The Huldah Gates comprise two sets of bricked-up gates in the southern wall of the Temple Mount.

The fact that the original entrance gateways still exist reflects an ancient promise cited in a work of rabbinic literature, Shir ha-Shirim Rabbah: "The Kohen Gate and the Huldah Gate were never destroyed and God will renew them"

The name "Huldah gates" is taken from the description of the Temple Mount in the Mishnah (Tractate of Midot 1:3)...

Two possible etymologies are given for the name: "Huldah" means "mole" or "mouse" in Hebrew, and the tunnels leading up from these gates called to mind the holes or tunnels used by these animals...

The Rabbis remember a connection between the Huldah gates (double, triple) and the temple... They remember tunnel like causeways connecting the temple to those gates

Fort Antonia was NORTH of the temple
The "Huldah" mouse tunnels would have connected to the NORTH side of the Temple, and to the SOUTH side of Fort Antonia
The "Huldah" gates are on the SOUTH side of the Haram structure
Ipso facto, the Haram CANNOT be the Temple...

unless the mouse like Huldah covered causeways wrapped all the way around the temple

the most obvious explanation is that the most that remains of Herod's temple, is the Huldah gates in the Fort Antonia which once connected to the temple

Erik Nelson · Jan 26, 2019

Dr Martin, Bob Cornuke Temple Location Disputed by Norma Robertson

Josephus says that the outer cloisters (outer wall plus inner colonnade) were 6 stadia in length

the Temple itself was 600x600' = 4 stadia

the other 2 stadia were the 2 extensions of those cloisters, from the Temple, northwards towards the southern flank of Fort Antonia

each cloister bridge causeway structure was 600' in length x2

so the total length of all cloisters associated with the temple was 600x4 + 600x2 = 6x600'

Hence, Josephus says "six stadia / furlongs, including the Antonia fortress" (Wars, 5.5.2)

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-5.htm

Choose Wisely · Jan 26, 2019

disciple Clint said:
OK so in your opinion, and you seem to have plenty of that, what do you think I am missing.

The fullness of the Gentiles has not come in therefore the Jews are still blind. They do not yet realize that Jesus is their prophesied Messiah............so they still need a Temple.

On a side note all this posting about the Jews don't know where their Temple was in the past is quite laughable. Anything they can do to lead the blind further from the truth is their goal. But we have a more sure word of prophecy.

Matt 24
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

You'll notice that Jesus lumps this destruction at the end of the age as He answers their question. There is still one stone upon another and that is why they have to tell you that the Jews don't know where their Temple should be.

There is also the fact that the Muslims must have not know where the Temple mount was either because they built there too.

And again we have a more sure word of prophecy.

Rev 11
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Looks like exactly what is happening in our world. Was John in the wrong place?

Lots of blindness. Try following the truth.

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 26, 2019

mkgal1 said:
ISTM that unless a person reads all through the Bible - with the focus on how God showed His presence to His people (from the Ark of the Covenant to the days of Jesus) - an important theme is missed. I appreciate how Brian Zahnd puts it:

Quoting Brian Zahnd----->Eventually David becomes the great king of Israel. David, having established his capital in Jerusalem, wanted to build a temple for the God of Israel. But God declined David’s offer to build a house for him, saying,

“You have shed much blood and have waged great wars; you shall not build a house to my name, because you have shed so much blood in my sight on the earth.”
(1 Chronicles 22:8)

David as a man of violence could not build the house of God. But God made this enormously significant promise to David:

“You have shed much blood and have waged great wars; you shall not build a house to my name, because you have shed so much blood in my sight on the earth.”
(1 Chronicles 22:8)

David as a man of violence could not build the house of God. But God made this enormously significant promise to David:

A son shall be born to you; he shall be a man of peace. I will give him peace from all his enemies on every side; for his name shall be Solomon (peaceful), and I will give peace and quiet to Israel in his days. He shall build a house for my name. He shall be a son to me, and I will be a father to him, and I will establish his royal throne in Israel forever. (1 Chronicles 22:9–10)

At first glance it would seem that God’s promise to David—that he would have a peaceful son who would reign as king and build the house of the Lord—is fulfilled in King Solomon. But is it? Granted, Solomon built a temple that would be identified as the temple of Yahweh for four centuries, and in retrospect we can see Solomon’s temple prefiguring something better to come. But is that all Solomon built? No.

Solomon built a harem for his seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines.

Solomon built temples to the foreign gods worshiped by his pagan wives.

Solomon built a professional standing army maintained by heavy taxation.

Solomon built all this with conscripted slave labor, including thirty thousand Hebrew slaves!

In a word, Solomon built…Egypt!

[snip]

By the time Jesus was born the temple Solomon built had been destroyed, then rebuilt by Zerubbabel, and then greatly expanded by Herod the Great. But Jesus held little regard for Herod’s temple. He famously protested what the temple had become by borrowing the words of Jeremiah who had predicted the destruction of the first temple, saying: “Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your sight?” (Jeremiah 7:11) When the Jerusalem aristocracy objected to Jesus’ denunciation of their magnificent temple, they asked Jesus what sign he would show them to justify his actions. Jesus’ cryptic reply and John’s commentary are enormously important.

“The Jews then said to him, ‘What sign can you show us for doing this?’ Jesus answered them, ‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.’ The Jews then said, ‘This temple has been under construction for forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?’ But he was speaking of the temple of his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this; and they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.” (John 2:18–22)
Jesus explicitly predicted the destruction of the temple on several occasions. (Matthew 24:1–3; Luke 19:41–44; 21:20–24) But what Jesus is doing here is more subtle and more significant than that. Jesus is associating the destruction of the present temple and the construction of a new temple with his own death and resurrection. More importantly, in some mysterious way this new temple will be his body. And in case you haven’t realized it, we have discovered the true son of David, the true man of peace, the one who builds the true temple. Of course, it’s Jesus!~God Doesn't Build His House By Violence - Brian Zahnd

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
[“Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your sight?” (Jeremiah 7:11)]

One of my larger studies concerns Jesus, the whip and chasing out the sellers/merchants in the Temple in John 2

[I am going to start a thread on this soon. Just got some more refining on it to do]

Erik Nelson said:
elsewhere you observed that Revelation only uses the word "sanctuary" not "temple"
doesn't it describe the "sanctuary" plus "court of the gentiles"?
That would be the whole structure, according to Josephus "Wars" 5.5.2:

The cloisters [walled colonnades of the outmost court] were in breadth thirty cubits [45'], while the entire compass of it was by measure six furlongs [six stadia = 3600'], including the tower of Antonia; those entire courts that were exposed to the air were laid with stones of all sorts [exposed outer court paved with stone tiles?]. When you go through these [first] cloisters, unto [towards?] the second [court of the] temple, there was a partition made of stone all round, whose height was three cubits [4.5']: its construction was very elegant; upon it stood pillars, at equal distances from one another, declaring the law of purity, some in Greek, and some in Roman letters, that "no foreigner should go within that sanctuary" for that second [court of the] temple was called "the Sanctuary," and was ascended to by fourteen steps from the first court. This court was four-square, and had a wall about it peculiar to itself; the height of its buildings, although it were on the outside forty cubits, (13) was hidden by the steps, and on the inside that height was but twenty-five cubits; for it being built over against a higher part of the hill with steps, it was no further to be entirely discerned within, being covered by the hill itself.

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-5.htm

Thank you for that info.

Perhaps you can bring more of that COURT up on this thread I created?

What all would have been in the inside court of the the Temple in the 1st century, such as buildings and such?

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

The Court in Revelation 11:2
The Court #G833

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure!
the Sanctuary<3485> of the God
and the Altar[Golden Altar?]
and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833> without of the Sanctuary,
be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854>,
and no it thou should be measuring,
that it was given to the nations
and the holy City they shall be treading<3961> forty two months.

There is 1 place in the NT that actually shows a Priest servicing inside the Santuary/Tabernacle....John the Baptist's father in Luke 1:

YLT
Luke 1:8
5There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest, by name Zacharias, of the course of Abijah, and his wife of the daughters of Aaron, and her name Elisabeth; 6and they were both righteous before God, going on in all the commands and righteousnesses of the Lord blameless, 7and they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and both were advanced in their days.

8And it came to pass, in his acting as priest, in the order of his course before God, 9according to the custom of the priesthood,
his lot was to make perfume<2370>, having gone into the Sanctuary<3485> of the Lord,

10and all the multitude of the people were praying without<1854>, at the hour of the perfume<2368> [Revelation 18:13]

11And there appeared to him a messenger of the Lord
standing on the right side of the altar of the perfume,..............[Revelation 8:3]
=======================================
2368. thumiama from 2370;
an aroma, i.e. fragrant powder burnt in religious service; by implication, the burning itself:--incense, odour.
G2368 matches the Greek θυμίαμα (thymiama), occurs 6 times in 6 verses

#2368 is used in only in only 6 verse of the entire NT, 2 in Luke and 4 in Revelation.

Rev 5:8
And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lambkin,
having each one harps and golden vials full of perfumes,
which are the prayers of the Saints,
Rev 8:
3 and another Messenger did come,
and he stood at the Altar,[Luke 1:11] having a golden Censer,
and there was given to Him much perfume,
that He may give it to the prayers of all the Saints upon the golden Altar that is before the throne,
4 and go up did the smoke of the perfumes to the prayers of the Saints out of the hand of the Messenger, before God;
Tools
Rev 18:13
and cinnamon, and perfumes, and ointment, and frankincense,
and wine, and oil, and fine flour,
and wheat, and cattle, and sheep, and of horses,
and of chariots, and of bodies and souls of men.

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 26, 2019

Choose Wisely said:
And again we have a more sure word of prophecy.
Rev 11: 1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod:.... 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not;......
Looks like exactly what is happening in our world. Was John in the wrong place?
Lots of blindness. Try following the truth.

Good advice!!
We all must do that........
I have a post concerning John spiritually/symbolically in a type of Tabernacle in the wilderness.........

New House New StonesThe house cleansings are separated from the first inspection by seven days, according to the Levitical law.

mkgal1 said:
I just came across this article and wanted to share it to discuss (alongside the other thread related to Daniel's prophecy in chapter 9).
This is the specific excerpt of the article I'd like to discuss in this thread:

mkgal1 said:
The house cleansings are separated from the first inspection by seven days, according to the Levitical law.
The closing of the house, also, was part of the seven-day wait period (Lev. 14:38). ~

https://americanvision.org/13220/why-jesus-cleansed-the-temple-twice-a-long-standing-mystery-solved/

New House New Stones
John in wilderness "Tabernacle" Revelation 1:10-13

LittleLambofJesus said:
Good post........

I like studying about the Camp, Court and Tabernacle in the OT.
While I was recently reading thru this passage in Revelation 1, something just struck out at me.

Revelation 1:
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind<3694> me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,
12 Then I turned<1994> to see the Voice that spoke with me.
And having turned<1994> I saw seven golden lampstands<3087>,
13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands [One] like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet
and girded about the chest with a golden band.
===========================
I can vision John standing inside the holy place of a Tabernacle. [John would probably be a Hebrew Jew and perhaps even of a priestly class].
While he is standing there, he hears a Voice BEHIND him.
He TURNS and sees Jesus in midst of lamp-stands. ["turn" can also mean convert]

Symbolically, [this is just my view],

John would have been facing the OC Table of Showbread. ..North.
The Altar and inner curtain would have been on his left...West
Then be turns, facing Jesus and the lamp-stands...South
The outer veil/entrance would then be on his left .....East

In essence, John is first facing the Table of OC Show-bread
and when he turns, he sees the NC "Living Bread", Jesus,

John 6:
48 I am the bread of life.
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven.
If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever.
And this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh.”

I found this rather interesting video which helped me visualize the Camp, Court and inside of the Tabernacle. Pretty nice I think.......

parousia70 · Jan 26, 2019

Choose Wisely said:
Yeah I get it, the Gentiles cannot be Israel

Yep, he told us the Gentiles cannot be Israel.

So why do you claim they are?

parousia70 · Jan 26, 2019

Choose Wisely said:
The fullness of the Gentiles has not come in

Yes it absolutely has. Gentile Fulness came in by the end of Paul's Ministry.

therefore the Jews are still blind. They do not yet realize that Jesus is their prophesied Messiah............so they still need a Temple.

Click to expand...

What Jews?

On a side note all this posting about the Jews don't know where their Temple was in the past is quite laughable. Anything they can do to lead the blind further from the truth is their goal. But we have a more sure word of prophecy.

Click to expand...

Again, What Jews?

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 26, 2019

N M........

Choose Wisely · Jan 26, 2019

parousia70 said:
Yes it absolutely has. Gentile Fulness came in by the end of Paul's Ministry.

Romans 11:25: “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”
No use twisting things around. My Father told me about ducks like you.

parousia70 said:
What Jews?

Oh, just pick any of them, there are plenty around.

parousia70 said:
Again, What Jews?

Oh, are you wanting to play the Coke.......soft drink game. You should probably play that game with someone that doesn't know the rules.

mkgal1 · Jan 26, 2019

Choose Wisely said:
Romans 11:25: “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”

The Romans were Gentiles.....correct? Was that time "complete" (as "fullness" refers to)?

Quoting Samuel Whitefield:
The Context of Luke 21:24
Much of the confusion regarding the identity of the “times of the gentiles” has to do with whether or not Jesus was referring to the Roman invasion of 70 AD in Luke 21:24. Luke 21, along with the parallel passages in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, does seem to foreshadow the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, so we must examine the text to see if Jesus is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in a specific generation or a general way throughout centuries of gentile occupation. To determine that we must begin with Luke 21:20 which begins this segment of Jesus’ teaching.

20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. (Luke 21:20–21 NKJV)

The first thing to see is that the language of Luke 21:20 is very specific. Jesus is not referring to a generic situation throughout centuries, but a very specific event that we (they) are to watch for. - When do the “Times of the Gentiles” End? – Samuel Whitefield

Choose Wisely · Jan 26, 2019

mkgal1 said:
The Romans were Gentiles.....correct? Was that time "complete" (as "fullness" refers to)?

Quoting Samuel Whitefield:
The Context of Luke 21:24
Much of the confusion regarding the identity of the “times of the gentiles” has to do with whether or not Jesus was referring to the Roman invasion of 70 AD in Luke 21:24. Luke 21, along with the parallel passages in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, does seem to foreshadow the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, so we must examine the text to see if Jesus is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in a specific generation or a general way throughout centuries of gentile occupation. To determine that we must begin with Luke 21:20 which begins this segment of Jesus’ teaching.

20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. (Luke 21:20–21 NKJV)

The first thing to see is that the language of Luke 21:20 is very specific. Jesus is not referring to a generic situation throughout centuries, but a very specific event that we (they) are to watch for. - When do the “Times of the Gentiles” End? – Samuel Whitefield

The Muslims are Gentiles......correct? Was that time complete?

mkgal1 · Jan 26, 2019

Choose Wisely said:
The Muslims are Gentiles......correct? Was that time complete?

You seem to have missed (or dismissed) my point.

Jesus was warning about something specific to His generation (that's been fulfilled). The time and events were completed in fullness.

Why are you bringing Muslims into this? Did you even read beyond my first sentence?

I'll try again:

To determine that we must begin with Luke 21:20 which begins this segment of Jesus’ teaching.

20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by [Roman/Gentile] armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. (Luke 21:20–21 NKJV)

*I added in the brackets for you.

mkgal1 · Jan 26, 2019

My mistake. I was confusing "times of the Gentiles" with "fullness of Gentiles". I should have gotten more sleep last night.

.....as Parousia70 already mentioned, that fullness has been brought in.

Erik Nelson · Jan 26, 2019

According to Bob Cornuke's "Temple", archeologists have uncovered a Roman coin, a Roman theater, and Roman bricks stamped as the property of the "Tenth Legion", all near the SW corner of the "Temple Mount" structure

The Wailing Wall is above Roman theaters & coins, just around the corner from Roman 10th legion bricks, and under Roman-style arches on every side (Wilson's Gate, Huldah Gates)

Roman coins...
Roman bricks...
Roman theater...
Roman arches...

Jewish Temple ???

Erik Nelson · Jan 27, 2019

Outer foundation was 500 cubits = 750' square

outermost Temple walls were 400 cubits = 600' square

Cloister causeways from the NW corner and center of the N flank of the Temple structure would align perfectly with gates on the S side of the Haram structure

the W side of the Temple was essentially the Ophel mount... hence there were only 3 artificial retaining walls, on the E, S/N sides, as described by Josephus (Wars, 5.5)'

the E most wall would had to have been as high as the Ophel mount in the west, plausibly the 350 cubits = 525' mentioned by Josephus

the following reference does not accurately describe all of Bob Cornuke's claims, e.g. it avoids his claim that Josephus really should be translated as "legion" when describing the Roman "tagma" force ensconced in Fortress Antonia
https://lifeandland.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Review-of-Cornuke-Temple-12-Twelve.pdf

Erik Nelson · Jan 27, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
N M........

According to the videos you posted, the Jewish defenders undermined the N wall of F. Antonia, first successfully opening up a sinkhole under the Roman siege towers... but then also under the N wall of the fort which also collapsed afterwards

If so, and if the Haram = Antonia, then there was once archeological evidence of those mines, and the collapse pits containing remains of Roman siege towers and the original N walls of the Haram structure, along the N wall of the Haram

Is a 3rd future Temple needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?

Is a future Temple in Jerusalem needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?

No. We are now the Temple/Sanctuary of God: 1 Corinthians 3:16

Yes. It is needed for the future "Man of Sin" to sit in: 2 Thess 2:4

Other

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Forgiven

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Forgiven

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Forgiven

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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