On demand abortion is murder

Is on demand abortion murder?

  • Yes

    Votes: 44 88.0%
  • No

    Votes: 6 12.0%

  • Total voters
    50
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Davidnic

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So why call them murderers if you do not feel that they deserve a murderers reward?

And asking a question and making an accusation are not one in the same. Your post is accusatory, mine asks a simple question without assumptions.

The question of if it is murder and if someone is morally culpable based on numerous circumstances is a different one.

Is it the destruction of innocent human life? Yes. What legal punishments are required, or is mercy...is a different discussion. But it is a discussion that people need to have in the long run theologically.
 
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redleghunter

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The law says that is wrong. The women and doctors and nurses and hospitals and insurance agencies are not - guilty of murder.

Proverbs 8:15
By me kings reign, and rulers enact just laws;
By God’s law the premeditated taking of a human life is murder.
 
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redleghunter

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Cow herders put to death over wild oxen are not premeditated murders?
I would think it would be. Lets let women off the hook.

“But if the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past, and its owner has been warned but has not kept it in, and it kills a man or a woman, the ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death” (Exodus 21:29)
The owner knew he had a killing animal.
 
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SkyWriting

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Davidnic

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It does not because it refers specifically to good rulers. Read verse 3. So by quoting this in response to my questions you are...yes or no saying it is God's Morality that someone should protect Jews from being handed over for genocide? And it is wrong for someone to preach Christ where it is illegal?

Yes or not, stop the evasion. If you hold to your claim that you said yes to earlier your answer here is yes. If you rightly see now how that claim is wrong your answer is no.

Pretty simple. .

So:

Does that include you are not allowed to hide Jews and must hand them over to local authority? That would be God's Morality? It is a sin to preach Christ where it is illegal...that is God's Morality?

Yes or no?

Do you see where the needed logic to justify abortion leads?
 
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RaymondG

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The question of if it is murder and if someone is morally culpable based on numerous circumstances is a different one.

Is it the destruction of innocent human life? Yes. What legal punishments are required, or is mercy...is a different discussion. But it is a discussion that people need to have in the long run theologically.
Yes, a lot of good discussion material here......which would be more productive if discussed by the objective and without emotion.....if possible.

We would need to examine if you can name those who you deem arent "morally culpable" as murderers as well....or as one who committed murder. I thought there was an assumption that they were here.

Also a discussion on whether there is life before birth, as in body with soul and spirit attachment..

These along with your suggestions of forgiveness vs prosecution.
 
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Davidnic

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Yes, a lot of good discussion material here......which would be more productive if discussed by the objective and without emotion.....if possible.

We would need to examine if you can name those who you deem arent "morally culpable" as murderers as well....or as one who committed murder. I thought there was an assumption that they were here.

Also a discussion on whether there is life before birth, as in body with soul and spirit attachment..

These along with your suggestions of forgiveness vs prosecution.

All probably merit separate threads. I would draw a distinction of something being murder and moral culpability, deserving various punishments, depending on factors. Mercy always plays a role, so does state of mind...ect. But it is a related but different discussion in my mind.
 
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Tutorman

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For the purposes of this discussion we are speaking of the premeditated decision to end a human life in the womb where the pregnant woman is not at risk of life. So please don’t argue from the life of the mother as before Roe v Wade every state had a provision for the life of the mother.

This being a theology thread I am making the statement that on demand abortion is murder as outlined in Exodus 20:13

It is the premeditated killing of human life (Imago Dei) in cold blood.

Yes it is, 100 percent. Absolutely
 
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SkyWriting

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It does not because it refers specifically to good rulers. Read verse 3. So by quoting this in response to my questions you are...yes or no saying it is God's Morality that someone should protect Jews from being handed over for genocide? And it is wrong for someone to preach Christ where it is illegal?

Yes or not, stop the evasion. If you hold to your claim that you said yes to earlier your answer here is yes. If you rightly see now how that claim is wrong your answer is no.

Pretty simple. .

So:

Does that include you are not allowed to hide Jews and must hand them over to local authority? That would be God's Morality? It is a sin to preach Christ where it is illegal...that is God's Morality?

Yes or no?

Do you see where the needed logic to justify abortion leads?


Yes, we are to obey even evil leaders and authorities.
Now I'll check the one verse you stand behind:(just a moment)
 
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redleghunter

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Same thing is with abortion.. although abortion has been assisted with pop culture garbage that made this stuff look cool. The practical way of all of this to fight the over pricing of everything.
Does financial means change the moral worth of a human being developing in the womb?
 
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SPF

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First, to the OP - I would say that yes, abortion on demand is immoral and wrong. For Christians, I would think this is an easy conclusion to come to.

1. All human beings are created in the image of God and possess inherent moral worth and value.
2. A new and unique human being comes into existence at fertilization.
Conclusion: Human beings possess inherent moral worth and value from fertilization.

I believe it is the spirit that is made in the image of God....not the flesh.......i would liken the flesh to the dust of the ground.....to which it will return..... I do not believe abortion kills souls or spirits.....only flesh.......
If we follow this out logically, then we could say that cold blooded murder of adults does not kill souls or spirits, only flesh. Yet, I'm pretty sure we would say that cold blooded murder of adults is immoral and wrong.

Yes, and my argument is that your local law is God's Law now.
This is honestly nothing short of asinine and utterly false. In fact, I would be willing to bet money that you couldn't find a single credible theologian who actually agrees with you.

If this was true, then Daniel was sinning by disobeying the government. If this was true, then all the apostles who were martyred for their faith were actually sinning by proclaiming the Gospel against what the government said.

Let's say that the government decided that not only was adultery a good thing, but that a study showed that swinging couples were more likely to stay together - so they pass a law that says that married couples must sleep with at least one other consenting adult once a quarter. If we were to believe what SkyWriting is preaching, then it would actually be sin to NOT have an affair. Thank goodness SkyWriting doesn't have a pedestal beyond this forum (I hope not anyway)

Man is not qualified to judge the sin of others.
God sees the heart instead.
If this were true, then Paul was sinning when he declared to the church in Corinth:

It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
 
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Davidnic

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Yes, we are to obey even evil leaders and authorities.

So we are to do what they command when evil leaders command it because their law is Gods law and Gods Morality to use your phrasing. Even if that means that preaching Christ is illegal and we do not do it because it is local law. Even when it means that we hand over the innocent to death?
 
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SkyWriting

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It does not because it refers specifically to good rulers. Read verse 3.

Verse 3

English Standard Version
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,

Berean Study Bible
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval.

Berean Literal Bible
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Now do you desire not to fear the authority? Do the good, and you will have praise from him.

New American Standard Bible
For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;

King James Bible
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Christian Standard Bible
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have its approval.

Nothing here about ignoring evil rulers.
 
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Davidnic

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Verse 3

English Standard Version
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,

Berean Study Bible
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval.

Berean Literal Bible
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Now do you desire not to fear the authority? Do the good, and you will have praise from him.

New American Standard Bible
For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;

King James Bible
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Christian Standard Bible
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have its approval.

Nothing here about ignoring evil rulers.

Do what is good and you will receive his approval. Evil does not approve good. The implication also of not a terror to good conduct is that they are godly rulers. To argue differently ignores context.
 
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