On demand abortion is murder

Davidnic said:

The problem I have with that is it makes chance of survival the benchmark for how we treat one made in the Image of God.

There are many times when a human being may not be viable without medical help or not be viable at all. but that cannot objectively change that they are human and in the Image of God.

So I think that is where that reasoning runs into a problem.

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The "Image of God" is the Spirit in man. Babies do not have specially large buckets of Spirit that spill as you get older.

SkyWriting said:

So farmers are worthy of death? Too ugly for you? I don't agree with scripture as you see it.

“But if the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past, and its owner has been warned but has not kept it in, and it kills a man or a woman, the ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death” (Exodus 21:29)

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You are getting into an argument of legitimate killing versus murder. So what crime exactly is the unborn human guilty of then.

Because to compare the two of you must assess a guilt to The unborn. Otherwise your question is a logical fallacy.

you're taking a lot of Scripture out of context and applying it in a few different directions.

Whether I agree with it or not Farmer put to death is because of negligence.

What crime are you assessing to The unborn since you are comparing legitimate killing? Otherwise it's a false analogy.

Davidnic said:

You are getting into an argument of legitimate killing versus murder. So what crime exactly is the unborn human guilty of then.

Because to compare the two of you must assess a guilt to The unborn. Otherwise your question is a logical fallacy.

you're taking a lot of Scripture out of context and applying it in a few different directions.

Whether I agree with it or not Farmer put to death is because of negligence.

What crime are you assessing to The unborn since you are comparing legitimate killing? Otherwise it's a false analogy.

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"Legitimate killing" ! That's a new one for me.

Local law is God's will for man.

SkyWriting said:

"Legitimate killing" ! That's a new one for me.

Local law is God's will for man.

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Legitimate killing is an old concept when speaking about things like the death penalty and other things that get into legally allowed versus morally acceptable. Which is essentially what we are discussing here. Someone can either be killed lawfully or it is objectively murder. Then you have to discuss is the law which allows it just. That gets into moral theology..

We have a situation where the unborn are allowed to be killed for essentially any reason up to a point of gestation in many places. The question is is that murder?

Are you arguing that all man-made law is by its own nature just simply because the in power human authority decrees it so?

redleghunter said:

For the purposes of this discussion we are speaking of the premeditated decision to end a human life in the womb where the pregnant woman is not at risk of life. So please don’t argue from the life of the mother as before Roe v Wade every state had a provision for the life of the mother.

This being a theology thread I am making the statement that on demand abortion is murder as outlined in Exodus 20:13

It is the premeditated killing of human life (Imago Dei) in cold blood.

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I believe you will be encouraged by these videos so I'll post them here:

Well obviously. Biology 101 tells us "The life of an individual organism of any sexually reproducing species begins at the moment of fertilization. At that moment, a new individual, genetically distinct from either parent, comes into existence".

Sky Writing it seems you are endorsing government abortion by sharing verses about law? It doesn't work like that. The theology is simple. Christ said "You would have no authority over me if it were not given to you from above." Jesus did not say he had full authority, only that which was given from above. We are not to resist the higher powers. Christ said, "all authority has been given me." Matthew 28:18. So he is the highest power.

Therefore we must not resist the higher power and believe abortion is a sin. "For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb" God knitted us in the womb. Which means he has guided and cared for the entire process. God knows us before the seamen enters the womb, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." We also find "Your eyes even saw me as an embryo; all its parts were written in your book regarding the days when they were formed.

There really is no biblical case to support abortion. The penalty for harming a pregnant woman was death in the case of miscarriage. I might even argue that a woman should not be spared in complication if the child can be born safely. It's called selfless sacrifice.

Davidnic said:

Legitimate killing is an old concept when speaking about things like the death penalty and other things that get into legally allowed versus morally acceptable. Which is essentially what we are discussing here. Someone can either be killed lawfully or it is objectively murder. Then you have to discuss is the law which allows it just. That gets into moral theology..

We have a situation where the unborn are allowed to be killed for essentially any reason up to a point of gestation in many places. The question is is that murder?

Are you arguing that all man-made law is by its own nature just simply because the in power human authority decrees it so?

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Yes, and my argument is that your local law is God's Law now.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Titus 3:1
1 Timothy 2:1-3

SkyWriting said:

No. My argument is that your local law is God's Law now.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Titus 3:1
1 Timothy 2:1-3

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Without exception? Because the verses you quote are not without exception. You interpret them as without exception?

maybe health care and mental care should not be so overly expensive. It's like, they make medical treatment and even education so completely expensive that it's almost nearly impossible to get in the USA. So people end up going to sin because they can't do anything financially.

Even in education, most girls who are trying to get through school end up signing up for inappropriate content shoots just to get money to pay tuition and bills. If they don't finish school, they don't get a future, if they don't get a future the delusion of being useless in life happens then ends in depression to possible suicide.

Suicide also. People go.. "well we should be more aware of medical health.. he should of had help!". Right, how much does that cost? It's nearly $350 for just a 30min pep talk and then there will likely be fake medicine that costs $100+ after.

Same thing is with abortion.. although abortion has been assisted with pop culture garbage that made this stuff look cool. The practical way of all of this to fight the over pricing of everything.

PaulCyp1 said:

Well obviously. Biology 101 tells us "The life of an individual organism of any sexually reproducing species begins at the moment of fertilization. At that moment, a new individual, genetically distinct from either parent, comes into existence".

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Can we respect all biology claims, or just those that seem to support us?

ProjectExodus said:

Sky Writing it seems you are endorsing government abortion by sharing verses about law? It doesn't work like that. The theology is simple. Christ said "You would have no authority over me if it were not given to you from above." Jesus did not say he had full authority, only that which was given above. We are to not resist the higher powers. Christ said, "all authority has been given me." Matthew 28:18. So he is the highest power.

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You missed what you quoted.

- You would have
- no authority over (Jesus)
- if it were not given to you from above.

Exactly my point. God granted all authority to local government. Jesus obeyed even to His death.

ProjectExodus said:

There really is no biblical case to support abortion.

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The case is me interfering with your Pro-Life decision.
Why allow the government additional powers
that might frown on you tomorrow?

Pro-Life is me staying out of your Pro-Life decision.
Or would you rather me in control of your decision?

ProjectExodus said:

Therefore we must not resist the higher power and believe abortion is a sin.

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You want me to vote on your pregnancy decision?

Davidnic said:

We have a situation where the unborn are allowed to be killed for essentially any reason up to a point of gestation in many places. The question is is that murder?

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Nope. I am letting both the women involved and the doctors live with no felony charges.
It is not murder. Otherwise I need to say it is murder, but I will look away this time.

If it is murder, then they both get put to death, with justification.

Sky this is a false statement: "God granted all authority to local government."

God granted all authority over man to Jesus:

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

There is no verse where "God handed all authority to local government." If you believe that you believe incest, molestation, murder, and any other sin could be deemed legal. In some places like Egypt conversion to Christianity is illegal. You're just wrong on this one. Theologically speaking, abortion will always be a sin. Only God can command killing.

SkyWriting said:

Nope. I am letting both the women involved and the doctors live with no felony charges.
It is not murder. Otherwise I need to say it is murder, but I will look away this time.

If it is murder, then they both get put to death, with justification.

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So you're saying it's not murder because you don't want to say it is? Because you'd be uncomfortable with what you believe the consequence must be?

But the other question was...is our local law now God's law without any exception?

Now in a country where it was considered legally murder you have to hold it actually was murder because local law would be absolute correct?

Davidnic said:

So you're saying it's not murder because you don't want to say it is? Because you'd be uncomfortable with what you believe the consequence must be?

But the other question was...is our local law now God's law without any exception?

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I can't find any exceptions noted.

Psalms 22:28
Daniel 2:20-21
Romans 13:7
1 Timothy 2:1-2

That's why I keep backing my claim.

SkyWriting said:

I can't find any exceptions noted.

Psalms 22:28
Daniel 2:20-21
Romans 13:7
1 Timothy 2:1-2

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Then you're not looking hard enough but we'll get to that in a bit once your point is crystal clear.

So do you hold, say yes or no, that local law is God's law and there is no exception?

And if you interpret them as without exception; would it then be sinful to disobey a local law since that is now God's law in your interpretation?

Davidnic said:

Then you're not looking hard enough but we'll get to that in a bit.

So do you hold that local law is God's law and there is no exception?

And if you interpret them as without exception; would it then be sinful to disobey a local law since that is now God's law in your interpretation?

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True enough.

Deuteronomy 16:18-20
Revelation 1:5
Romans 13:4
Proverbs 21:1