Faith and works not that hard to figure out.
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Cis.jd
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no quantity just being genuine. Nice try though with this question.
Why, are you raising doubt on him having the same faith as you?What kind of faith did Hitler have which caused him to order the death of millions of Jews? What kind of faith is that?
This is completely wrong and nothing more than creative writing from either you or from random sites that have built excuses on a verse that is very clear. "reference to empty profession/dead faith".. yes and what was the cause of dead faith as shown in James?
Yes, but it never says we are saved by faith alone; and i don't understand why you are making up your own rules now by saying "we don't alone".What you are doing is cherry picking verses and just ignoring the other set of verses while building your contexts on those that tell you straight such as James.
Faith is nothing more than believing and trusting but when you search the bible, you'll see faith also involves assent to God's truth (1 Thess 2:13), obedience to Him (Rom 1:5, 16:26), and it must be working in love (Gal 5:6). Even Paul has given a description on faith as being something that is progressive (Philipp 2:12), progressive already shows that faith can't be alone.
Come on man, it's logic. Simple logic should tell you how invalid faith alone is. It is said that we (christians) make up 31% out 6.9 billion people on earth, You are telling me the rest are going to hell? That shows God is so incompetent. At the same time, how many Christians have we known in history who had very little christian like qualities in comparison to those who aren't christian?
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That's right (and about whether we can attain the perfection of the Father, if you be sure to read to the bottom of that post, then you can see how it connects that here we are only "in part", and "fullness" hasn't yet come, not yet. But I answer that already more directly at the bottom of that post you were replying to: "We are not perfect in the full way..." (I bet you've have had a lot to read in this thread!)).
I was reflecting more on how we love our enemies (those doing wrong to us), and here's from Paul in Romans on doing it, helpfully --
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” e
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."
Or in Ephesians: 2 "Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace."
(of course as Christ already told us when there is a serious thing to go to the person privately first (Matthew chapter 18 I think))
This is so useful to remember, but also, as I was saying above, I need to pray the prayer Christ instructed us to pray (daily; from Matthew 6), so as to be able to do this!
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Danthemailman
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All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)
Did Hitler place his faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of his salvation? Is ordering the murder of millions of Jews the fruit of that? NO and NO. Hitler does not have the same faith as me. His dead faith did not trust in Jesus Christ for salvation and his continuous evil works demonstrated this.
It's actually completely right and you are yet to prove otherwise. You seem to believe that works are the source of life in faith. That is completely wrong. To say that faith is dead UNTIL it produces works and that works are the source of life in faith is like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit and that fruit is the source of life in the tree. A lack of works demonstrates that our faith is dead. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. "Says-claims" (key word) to have faith but has no works (no resulting evidential works to validate that claim) = empty profession of faith/dead faith. Plain and simple.
When a passage states that we are saved through faith, not works, the common denominator shows it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE as I already explained. Faith involves belief, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. Obedience which "follows" having been saved through faith and is produced "out of" faith is works. By saying that faith "is" obedience you are saying that faith "is" works and the end result is works salvation. I do not cherry pick verses and I properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.
In regards to (Romans 1:5; 16:26), although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.
*Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship UNTIL they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works. You have the cart before the horse.
Don't base your arguments on faulty human logic. The Bible makes it clear that many are on the broad way that leads to destruction and few are on the narrow way that leads to life. Sobering words!
Matthew 7:13 - Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. Why do you believe it's so few?
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Cis.jd
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What makes them not equally fruitful?
Why, how do you know that hitler didn't have the same faith as you? Why would all the murders indicate an invalid faith and why would any that matter?
None of it is right. You are inserting your own creative thoughts on to the verse and applying radical meanings out of your own mind. Your analogy is wrong because James already gave an analogy of it by using the body (james 2:26). 2nd of all your tree analogy is illogical because an apple tree that isn't capable of producing apples is considered completely useless or something is seriously wrong with it. It may not be naturally needed to be alive but to a farmer that tree is good as dead.It's actually completely right and you are yet to prove otherwise. You seem to believe that works are the source of life in faith. That is completely wrong. To say that faith is dead UNTIL it produces works and that works are the source of life in faith is like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit and that fruit is the source of life in the tree. A lack of works demonstrates that our faith is dead. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. "Says-claims" (key word) to have faith but has no works (no resulting evidential works to validate that claim) = empty profession of faith/dead faith. Plain and simple.
It is not shown in every verse and it's not shown to be alone either when the entire bible is brought in, that this "faith alone" case is all from cherry picking. There is no reason why the other verses that contain works should be disregarded as a connection/extension to the teachings of salvation.
Your entire block could be accepted as possible until Rev 20:12 shows people being judged according to their works. Or Matthew 7:21-23 where Jesus rebukes those who have faith in him yet have evil works.
The "faulty human logic" card is an excuse to brush of any scriptural related views when it doesn't make sense, of course we can apply logical thinking that when we investigate messages in scripture. Jesus did that when he gave parables. The whole debate on justification and practically every other form of theology is also assisted by our understanding of what the verses say so you are also applying a form of logic when you determine what is being said in scripture.
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We persevere to the end by keeping our eye on the prize.
The very quotes from you and Chrysostom are traits of those who persevere. The evidence of the new creation. If they are absent then one is exhorted to examine themselves to see if they are actually in Christ.
2 Corinthians 13: NASB
4For indeed He was crucified because of weakness, yet He lives because of the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, yet we will live with Him because of the power of God directed toward you.
5Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?
Your position puts the works of God wrought in us His new creation as requirements. We can’t take credit for them. Jesus said we can do nothing without Him.
Yet you still claim works of righteousness are required for salvation.
How can they be as we can do nothing righteous without God.
Again I am pointing out a more concrete and sobering truth. We either are in Christ or we are not. What we do shows what we believe in or Who we believe in.
It’s GEICO sir. It’s what you do.
Those who endure to the end indeed do so because they are in Christ and sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise (Ephesians 1:11-14).
.
Don’t know how those words could be so twisted. It is in fact God giving us a new heart removing the heart of stone. How can we exercise saving faith without the new heart?
There is that necessary word negating Grace.
You have it backwards. The church is to uphold Apostolic teachings not create it.
1Timothy 3: NASB
14I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; 15but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.
(NASB )
Pillars uphold. Supports butress. They don’t create. They defend. So it is not the Scriptures which need to conform to the Church but the church to uphold the truth.
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To everyone:
I was thinking after reading several posts the following.
I've often asked a question, when people (in other threads, not this one) are emphasizing the reality we are saved by grace through faith, and not works, and then leave off verse 10 (Ephesians 2:10) -- not like this thread generally -- I've several times in other threads asked something like:
'Where are these people (anywhere??) that think they are earning their salvation on their own without Christ, by their own works, without Christ?'
That is, aren't such a chimera? Perhaps there is a tiny handful that imagine they are saving themselves on their own good deeds (that is, without Christ, not by the gift of God, not by Grace), by their own works alone. But where are they?
I've said more than once or twice also: "They must be very rare, as I've not been able to find them."
I know perfectly well that for example Catholics say they are saved by Grace through faith in their own wordings. They believe works are also required of us (as do most protestants as best I can tell from a great many conversations, for that matter).
But, I wonder if we (or I) should also consider the inverse question. Shouldn't I (or we) also ask:
'Where are the people (are there any?), who truly think that they are saved by Grace through faith and also think they can perfectly fine have zero fruit, zero doing as Christ said, who really do throw the epistle of James (and for that matter those of Peter, John, and Paul, all) out (not to mention Christ's own Words), and only use a few select verses from Paul and maybe a few selected verses from the gospels isolated from others, and ignore the remaining 98-99% of all the New Testament? '
Perhaps I (we) should also say: "Where are they? I don't think I've been able to find any here."
(though I admit I may have found one somewhere else on another site, though it's not clear since the person blocked me suddenly after just 1 comment where I simply pointed out Ephesians 2:10 and said we must do as Christ commanded us to do).
Yes, I know there are a very few perhaps, but....maybe they are just more rare than we would guess, I'm thinking.
Instead, one thing that does happen naturally in all discussions, inevitably, is that people misguess about what the other person believes/assumes, various things that persons hasn't clearly stated.
When person A thinks person B is claiming their works save them, cause salvation, and person B thinks person A is claiming zero works is ok....
...what's actually happening very often is that both person A and person B don't yet have the full list/knowing of what the other believes -- they just have part. Therefore caution on reaching a conclusion is best.
I best wait for person Z to say clearly to me in some way: "having zero fruits/works is just fine even for Christians that have been saved for years" before I conclude that's what they believe.
They probably do not believe such. Experience shows me that usually they don't think that, and don't follow that, but instead, they only have different wordings when talking (even use the same words to mean different things; e.g. 'works' for instance, to mean radically different things) and also emphasize different aspects, to begin with, according to their own personal background/experiences/challenges/lessons.
Often: All along person A and person B largely have the same views.
But they use different wordings, unfamiliar to the other, and also different emphasis.
It's not that there are zero differences in understandings and beliefs. It's that we tend to emphasis what's different and then also guess further past what actually is, pretty often.
It's like even though we are using English, we still have different...dialects.
It's like the Tower of Babel isn't truly diminished (or not a lot). Still mostly in effect.
---------
To everyone.
I was thinking after reading several posts the following.
I've often asked a question, when people (in other threads, not this one) are emphasizing the reality we are saved by grace through faith, and not works, and then leave off verse 10 (Ephesians 2:10) -- not like this thread generally -- I've several times in other threads asked something like:
'Where are these people (anywhere??) that think they are earning their salvation on their own without Christ, by their own works, without Christ?'
That is, aren't such a chimera? Perhaps there is a tiny handful that imagine they are saving themselves on their own good deeds (that is, without Christ, not by the gift of God, not by Grace), by their own works alone. But where are they?
I've said more than once or twice also: "They must be very rare, as I've not been able to find them."
I know perfectly well that for example Catholics say they are saved by Grace through faith in their own wordings. They believe works are also required of us (as do most protestants as best I can tell from a great many conversations, for that matter).
But, I wonder if we (or I) should also consider the inverse question. Shouldn't I (or we) also ask:
'Where are the people (are there any?), who truly think that they are saved by Grace through faith and also think they can perfectly fine have zero fruit, zero doing as Christ said, who really do throw the epistle of James (and for that matter those of Peter, John, and Paul, all) out (not to mention Christ's own Words), and only use a few select verses from Paul and maybe a few selected verses from the gospels isolated from others, and ignore the remaining 98-99% of all the New Testament? '
Perhaps I (we) should also say: "Where are they? I don't think I've been able to find any here."
(though I admit I may have found one somewhere else on another site, though it's not clear since the person blocked me suddenly after just 1 comment where I simply pointed out Ephesians 2:10 and said we must do as Christ commanded us to do).
Yes, I know there are a very few perhaps, but....maybe they are just more rare than we would guess, I'm thinking.
Instead, one thing that does happen naturally in all discussions, inevitably, is that people misguess about what the other person believes/assumes, various things that persons hasn't clearly stated.
When person A thinks person B is claiming their works save them, cause salvation, and person B thinks person A is claiming zero works is ok....
...what's actually happening very often is that both person A and person B don't yet have the full list/knowing of what the other believes -- they just have part. Therefore caution on reaching a conclusion is best.
I best wait for person Z to say clearly to me in some way: "having zero fruits/works is just fine even for Christians that have been saved for years" before I conclude that's what they believe.
They probably do not believe such. Experience shows me that usually they don't think that, and don't follow that, but instead, they only have different wordings when talking (even use the same words to mean different things; e.g. 'works' for instance, to mean radically different things) and also emphasize different aspects, to begin with, according to their own personal background/experiences/challenges/lessons.
Often: All along person A and person B largely have the same views.
But they use different wordings, unfamiliar to the other, and also different emphasis.
It's not that there are zero differences in understandings and beliefs. It's that we tend to emphasis what's different and then also guess further past what actually is, pretty often.
It's like even though we are using English, we still have different...dialects.
It's like the Tower of Babel isn't truly diminished (or not a lot). Still mostly in effect.
---------
To everyone.
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Amen. What we do does show Who we believe in and follow.It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
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Word studies can be profitable. However when we do not apply the context of how the words are used by the writer in their time and in the context of their teaching we end up with the root word fallacy or word study fallacies.
Word-Study Fallacies by Robert Cara
@Danthemailman applied the words for faith within the context of the teaching.
Sure we can hunt in other places but that would be omitting the context.
Using the lexicon is good and Vine’s expository. What’s important is what the lexicon and expository tells us of the various applications of words within the context of the text.
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Do you teach that we are saved through faith AND works? If so, how many works does it take?
What kind of faith did Hitler have which caused him to order the death of millions of Jews? What kind of faith is that?
In James 2:24, "faith alone" or "faith only" here is in reference to an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" -- barren of works. (James 2:14) Not to be confused with faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-9; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. So then its faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.
It's not about cherry picking scripture (and it's also not about distorting and perverting passages of scripture in an effort to "patch together" a works based false gospel) *It's about properly harmonizing scripture with scripture. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
Knowing ahead of time we already largely agree.
And also won't be able to correctly guess what the other thinks.
But will misguess.
Anyway...I thought of this meaningful passage (one of several like it):
Even though it's the last verse that came to mind, it's helpful to have the whole:
1Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin. 2As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.3For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you. 5But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
7The end of all things is near. Therefore be alert and of sober mind so that you may pray. 8Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
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Obedience as a necessity is all to obvious to most of us, and it's just a shame some accepted a salvation plan that wasn't real. That or they found their way into it because it seemed like a better deal. They believe that technically they would still be allowed to sin just as we did before we were saved, that they were getting into a "no risk investment/contract" because it's a popular enough false teaching that it can be seemingly justified because so many believe it these days. I recall a time when that was unheard of, the basics were be good and go to heaven, don't and you won't.
Many of the Faith only crowd will fight tooth and nail to hang on to that right to sin, and hearing the truth makes them fight even more. We can put the most simply stated, easy to understand scripture right in front of them, something even the Atheist would have absolutely no problem understanding, and get some of the most nonsensical so-called refutes (if someone wants to report me for comparing you to Atheists, first off Atheists are at least honest/solid about their beliefs, and secondly, I'm not comparing you to them, only that someone that doesn't even believe the bible can, in many cases, easily understand what it actually says.)
Anyone ever noticed how they start threads on this so often? IMO, that's because they need it reinforced so often, and I think because they know the truth, or the truth is gnawing at them, and they need to keep doing that in order to keep themselves believing the lie.
I've thought from time to time, it would be interesting to ask them if they had some pet sins they just aren't going to let go of, and what are they? I also have to wonder if some would have ever even gotten on board had they been given the truth from the start? Would what little we actually have to do have been to much to ask for our eternal salvation?
Lastly, and this is my opinion, but the worse thing is not the individual believing this, and of course it's bad enough to lose even one to sin, but to teach it to others, to Gods sincerely seeking children? I'm just afraid that is going to be more costly than they will ever know... a seriously bad idea.
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If that's true, then why are you also relying on works to save you?
Typical verses that works-salvationists try and use to support salvation by works.
After a casual reading of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-46), these verses "on the surface" seem to suggest that salvation is the result of good works. All Scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of Scripture. This passage has to be taken alongside the whole of Scripture. Jesus was not advocating salvation by works. That would be contrary to Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5 etc... One's works are an effect of (and therefore indication of) one's salvation status, rather than being a cause of one's salvation. This is not performance based salvation, but salvation based performance.
The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25:35-36 are the fruit that will be manifest in the lives of the redeemed. Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there based on the merits of their good deeds, but because of God imputing righteousness to them (Romans 4:2-6; Philippians 3:9). When works are mentioned in connection with salvation, the works are always the result of, not the condition of, receiving salvation. The stress is on works as a "manifestation" of one's faith (or lack thereof) and not simply on faith from which these works follow. We must not confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture or else you end up with salvation by works.
*Notice how practicing righteousness and love for other Christians is an indication of one's salvation status but not the cause of it: 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. He who practices righteousness and loves his brother does so BECAUSE he is "of God" not to become of God. 1 John 3:14 - We know that we have (past tense) passed from death to life, because we love our brothers (present tense). Loving our brothers is the result of, not the condition of passing from death to life. 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
This is descriptive of the goats, which is a manifestation of unbelief. Keep in mind that without faith it's impossible to please God. So what is the heart of the issue behind the status of the sheep and the goats? What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (did not do enough works? NO) but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he (has not done enough works? NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The goats didn't abide and produce fruit because they are goats. *A bad tree cannot produce good fruit. Only sheep abide and produce good fruit. The doctrine of eternal security of the believer is true. God does not forsake His saints...they are preserved forever. (Psalm 37:28) Jesus' sheep hear His voice...follow Him...He gives them eternal life...they shall never perish or be plucked from His hand. (John 10:27-29) Whom He predestined, He also called...justified and whom He justified, these He also glorified. (Romans 8:30) ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty. Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)
Example of unbelievers.
In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the RCC, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.
Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. *Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin, which explains why Jesus referred to them as workers of iniquity. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father. Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works.
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. *These many people were not true converts.
Jesus NEVER knew these many people who were trusting in their works for salvation and they departed from Jesus described as "workers of iniquity," yet you are still suggesting that these many people may have been believers?
Typical straw man argument about sinning all we want.
My works have nothing to do with saving me. The type of faith I have does.
I’m sorry brother Dan but your explanation of the sheep and goats parable is a cop out. I mean c’mon do I really have to post the entire bible and give explanation? Let’s just take it one step at a time. You can post scriptures you belong refute my interpretation and I can explain them. That’s how this is supposed to work my friend. I’m Salvation is conditional and abiding is one of the conditions.
“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.”
John 15:5
The goats didn’t produce much fruit and they faced the consequences Jesus mentioned in John 15:2 & John 15:6.
“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away (removes) and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
John 15:2, 6
Your explanation of Matthew 25 is as expected which is why I like to jump straight to John 15. Your saying the servant of the master is not a servant of God. I would say then he wouldn’t be called a servant of the master.
Ok let’s take a look at your example given pertaining to 1 John 3:10 you said quote
Notice how practicing righteousness and love for other Christians is an indication of one's salvation status but not the cause of it: 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. He who practices righteousness and loves his brother does so BECAUSE he is "of God" not to become of God. 1 John 3:14
So let’s take a look at what Paul says pertaining to this matter.
“even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands- remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household,”
Ephesians 2:5-19 NASB
Now these people are believers right? Paul undoubtedly says they are of God’s household. Look at what Paul says to these believers who are of God’s household or in other words children of God.
“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
Ephesians 5:1-6 NASB
Is Paul saying to these Children of God that they cannot become sons of disobedience? Your saying these children of God are incapable of such behavior and Paul is clearly warning them not to engage in such behavior. Do you see the dilemma here? Clearly a child of God can in fact fall from grace and again become a son of disobedience otherwise Paul is warning the Ephesians about doing something he believed was impossible for them to do. John is actually saying a person is a child of God as long as they continue to live accordingly to God’s Word. I have to stop here I will reply to the rest of your post later. Sorry my lunch break is over. Have a blessed day brother.
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Danthemailman
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